(CR) Cardfight!! Vanguard

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

A really needy game should only allow one copy of each card. Copies of the same card ruin the feeling of uniqueness of a card. I mean, does it feel that special if Yugi summons 3 Dark Magicians or Aichi 3 Blaster Blades?

Plus, it allows the makers to easily make different cards with identical abilities and the players won't mind that. They will need to buy 50 different ones; to hell if artwork and name aside they are identical.

Oh, and if both players play the same monster, both should be removed from play. Instant Double KO lol !

Developement costs would hurt that. All those illustrators have to get paid, you know. Same for the "flavor text" writers. And the cost of the printing masterrs (maybe it's all digital now though)

[roriconfan]

Ι didn't say that they would need to make more ilustrations. Only that they are excused to have each set with more identical abilities. Plus, the need to have 50 different cards would actually cover any extra expanses in artwork and it would promote trading amongst players. Which is a good thing.

Oh, and it would be nice to know which cards Aichi (or Yugi ) take out and replace them with newer ones. It won't feel ass pull if they have the only card that can defeat the opponent this way.

[cohen]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

A really needy game should only allow one copy of each card. Copies of the same card ruin the feeling of uniqueness of a card. I mean, does it feel that special if Yugi summons 3 Dark Magicians or Aichi 3 Blaster Blades?

Plus, it allows the makers to easily make different cards with identical abilities and the players won't mind that. They will need to buy 50 different ones; to hell if artwork and name aside they are identical.

Oh, and if both players play the same monster, both should be removed from play. Instant Double KO lol !

In the show, they usually only have on copy, but try to run a deck like that in real life, and you'll never win. You need multiple copies in order to stay consistent.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

A really needy game should only allow one copy of each card. Copies of the same card ruin the feeling of uniqueness of a card. I mean, does it feel that special if Yugi summons 3 Dark Magicians or Aichi 3 Blaster Blades?

Let's put it this way, singleton (as EDH/commander) has only become popular in magic 15 years after it started. It requires a massive card pool. (Yes, singleton has for a while existed, but it was never as popular as it has gotten in the past 3 years with EDH.) And there are many, many other problems with deck construction variance and other stuff in singleton.

Plus, it allows the makers to easily make different cards with identical abilities and the players won't mind that.

It depends on the value of the original card. Players hate functional reprints unless the original has play value. It's a waste of a card to them otherwise.

They will need to buy 50 different ones; to hell if artwork and name aside they are identical.

At least 50. EDH is 100 vs magic's standard 60 deck size. This means you require a massive initial card pool (hundreds) and people are going to be very pissed off when they keep getting the same useless cards since they can't run more than 1 of it. This also smells of money grubbing when combined with the above. And then there is the issues with starters and precons, etc.

[eiyuu99]

It should be closer to 100, considering how easy to get replicates of common cards.
With bad luck, hundreds? Quite a bad "one copy of each card" idea.

[felix]

Multiple cards are allowed since then if you got a booster and you got only cards you had you would slowly start to feel disappointed; not good for business.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

A really needy game should only allow one copy of each card. Copies of the same card ruin the feeling of uniqueness of a card. I mean, does it feel that special if Yugi summons 3 Dark Magicians or Aichi 3 Blaster Blades?

Plus, it allows the makers to easily make different cards with identical abilities and the players won't mind that. They will need to buy 50 different ones; to hell if artwork and name aside they are identical.

Oh, and if both players play the same monster, both should be removed from play. Instant Double KO lol !

A way to address that without taking such draconian steps would be to allow only one copy of the card on the field at the time. With maybe some rules to allow discarding a card that's already on the field and drawing a replacement.

[roriconfan]

Why is everyone so negative about it? If one gets the same cards, he can (as I said) go to the guy next to him and trade. It is THAT simple. We can also do a barter 3 for 1, which will turn the whole thing into Monopoly.

And @ Anh Minh's idea ain't bad either.

But seriously, when I see identical monsters on the field I feel it's lame. And boy, this show is full of duplicates!

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Why is everyone so negative about it? If one gets the same cards, he can (as I said) go to the guy next to him and trade. It is THAT simple. We can also do a barter 3 for 1, which will turn the whole thing into Monopoly.

And @ Anh Minh's idea ain't bad either.

But seriously, when I see identical monsters on the field I feel it's lame. And boy, this show is full of duplicates!

I think the card selection in the show will grow over time, mainly because things like the cardlists were still being finalized while the early episodes were in production.

[Darkman.exe213]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Why is everyone so negative about it? If one gets the same cards, he can (as I said) go to the guy next to him and trade. It is THAT simple. We can also do a barter 3 for 1, which will turn the whole thing into Monopoly.

And @ Anh Minh's idea ain't bad either.

But seriously, when I see identical monsters on the field I feel it's lame. And boy, this show is full of duplicates!

I'm not sure how many people find that lame, but as an avid card game player, I actually like seeing multiples on the field, because it's more realistic. Very few games only allow one copy of the same card. Also, I think the trading thing is much less practical than it seems, because there are always people who would rather just hold onto their own cards, and when it comes to power cards(namely, grade 3's), they probably wouldn't want to make multiple versions of the same card with different names, meaning that the game will come down even more to luck, because each player only has one copy of their key card. Flavor-wise, it's more fun and interesting, but it ruins a lot of the basic strategy that goes into card games.

[bayoab]

Eh, so the point of this week's ep is just to explain to future players how the whole soul concept works and why it has value. Pretty amusing game though. Every other part of the ep was just weird filler though. The main character stalking his rival?? Are they trying to get the fujoshi interested in writing slash fiction or something?

[Darkman.exe213]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Eh, so the point of this week's ep is just to explain to future players how the whole soul concept works and why it has value. Pretty amusing game though. Every other part of the ep was just weird filler though. The main character stalking his rival?? Are they trying to get the fujoshi interested in writing slash fiction or something?

I think the creators are well aware of the weird undertones that some of the characters' actions have. Wouldn't be the first time they brought up Aichi's Kai obsession for comedic effect.

Spoiler for episode 7:

I'm not sure if I would call this a filler episode though, it hints at some kind of family issue with Kai, and basically shows that Aichi's victory over him really was just a fluke. Kamui is clearly a player who is actually good(at least, within the context of the series), but Kai still didn't consider him a worthy opponent.

[roriconfan]

Moral message of episode 7: Kai and Aichi lose because the game is too luck-based.

[cohen]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Moral message of episode 7: Kai and Aichi lose because the game is too luck-based.

So is the episode worth watching then? Does this game really rely too much on luck?

[felix]

Originally Posted by cohen

So is the episode worth watching then? Does this game really rely too much on luck?

Well, seems you have to be half dead use some abilities so I don't know. I think the problem is it relies too much on adding numbers. Everything should be much more simple. But hey, it could have been worse, I mean…



Also don't get the soulburn thing.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by cohen

So is the episode worth watching then? Does this game really rely too much on luck?

I'd say more Kai didn't know what to expect out of Aichi's deck the first time.
And Aichi's deck just sucks and is based on luck.
I'd say it relies more on luck than most other games because an important part (the triggers) is luck based. Though if they finally start introducing more deck manipulation cards, that would change things.

Originally Posted by felix

Also don't get the soulburn thing.

Pretty sure it was just a special ability. Didn't think it was an all card ability. Basically the cards were acting as counters here too instead of having actual counters.

[roriconfan]

Seriously, all they do in this game is hoping to get the right trigger. You even see them saying "I'd rather not do my move now and receive damage because if I am lucky, I will get the right card on the next round"

Or even something as stupid as "This grade 3 is weaker than the grade 2 it rides but it also draws two cards on attack and thus you have more luck getting a trigger".

Also, it is too heavy on numbers when all it takes is having more power than the opposing monster. Who cares if the attack is 2564 points bigger than yours? You still get 1 damage no mater what. I mean, in Yugioh, such things mattered but not here.

Also, going strictly by the odds, if you are allowed to have only 16 triggers in a 50 card deck, then the odds of getting one is 1:3. But that does not mean you will get to use it as half of them end up being wasted on damage cards or drawn when they are not useful. That halves the odds to 1:6. So instead of focusing more on defence or attack strategies, all they do is thinking if they get a 6 in their dice on their next turn or something.

I have played many table top strategy games that have the factor of luck in them. For example, Settlers of Katan is based on dices to see what type of land you get resourses from, which is purely luck based. But after that follows a really big dilemma on how you get to spend your resourses. Will it be on more colonies that increase the odds of getting more resourses each round? Maybe on wild cards that have random effects on the game? And you can't hoard your resourses too much because another player can throw the thief on you and steal them all. Even after all that, you still have to deal with trading. You can exchange with other players, or bargain one resourse for three others. Or just head for a harbor which gives rather good deals with NPCs. And even after all that, you still need to do public relations with the other players. You need to convince them you are weaker than the others and thus keep their road blockade or attacks by thieves away from you by offering good bargains. In the meantime you can have many wild cards on your hand that secretly help you win the game.

Well, I don't find all that in this card game. It is way too luck based and leaves little room for actual strategies.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Seriously, all they do in this game is hoping to get the right trigger. You even see them saying "I'd rather not do my move now and receive damage because if I am lucky, I will get the right card on the next round"

Or even something as stupid as "This grade 3 is weaker than the grade 2 it rides but it also draws two cards on attack and thus you have more luck getting a trigger".

Also, it is too heavy on numbers when all it takes is having more power than the opposing monster. Who cares if the attack is 2564 points bigger than yours? You still get 1 damage no mater what. I mean, in Yugioh, such things mattered but not here.

Also, going strictly by the odds, if you are allowed to have only 16 triggers in a 50 card deck, then the odds of getting one is 1:3. But that does not mean you will get to use it as half of them end up being wasted on damage cards or drawn when they are not useful. That halves the odds to 1:6. So instead of focusing more on defence or attack strategies, all they do is thinking if they get a 6 in their dice on their next turn or something.

Not really. Because the size of the deck decreases too. Of course, it depends of what goes on during the actual game. Maybe you're lucky and still have all you triggers while the size of the deck you draw from's gone down to 30. Or maybe you've got five triggers in your hand before the game's even started. So I guess it's a good idea to keep track of that sort of thing.

Also, a 1/3 chance of getting a trigger means a 5/9 chance of getting at least one with a twin drive. Add some deck manipulation like... Amaterasu and it becomes less luck-based.

[roriconfan]

Yes, I know Amaterasu's draw ability helps by 1:50 per use.And it appears to be present on grade 2 monsters as well. The card shop girl appears to have the best strategy so far, as she gets to make use of most of what her deck offers.

[cohen]

I think I should stop watching this series with a regular tone, there are some hardcore fans on the yugioh forum I go to that cannot admit Triggers rely too much on luck, and decide matches way too often.