AnimeSuki Forums

JediNight · 2004-11-13, 07:46

I need to get this off my chest bc its been building for awhile: Someone else please tell me they too are totally fed up with the state of players in online gaming today.
By this I mean: 80% of the online gaming community is only interested in ruining the gaming experience of others, exploiting or abusing imbalances in the game, and ignoring how the game was designed to be played any chance they get?

I want to play online games, but the gaming experience is just exponentially worse than say 8 years ago during Quake1 or Team Fortress. It used to be most players went for skillful play in the game to win the objectives and be respected by others. Nowadays its just a bunch of rude "l33t d00dz" that just rack up high-scores the lamest way possible not giving a damn at all. Hell, in games like Counterstrike and Day of Defeat the "good players" in the game leagues use gameplay mechanics exploits as standard operating procedure and nobody thinks anything of it. Then theres RTS games like Starcraft that skill died with the advent of BGH and "Mucho Gold" maps, and Dawn of War with the quick rushes every single game basically. RTS suffers from the "3 minute game syndrome" I'll call it.

Well thats enough of a rant for now. What are everyone elses thoughts on this? Seems the only way to get a halfway decent online gaming experience nowadays is in some of the MMORPGs like FF11. FF11 is the only game I play lately that I get a generally pleasant experience out of and don't feel like personally visiting some peoples houses to punch them in the face

SlugZilla · 2004-11-13, 08:13

I agree with you about the degrade of online gaming. I think it's simply because there's a lot more people playing then there used to be. Back in the day people were just happy to play at all.

But I have to disagree w/ you on the MMORPG part...
A LOT of MMORPG players are really corrupt, did you know that? They're some of the lowest players you'll see online. They use a ton exploits, hacks and unethical "techniques" to rack up as much experience and money they can, and sell items on ebay.

JediNight · 2004-11-13, 08:15

Its true that some people do that in MMOs, but I hardly think its the majority -- and most of that doesn't directly affect your gameplay experience unless they are killstealing all the mobs in your area or something.

SlugZilla · 2004-11-13, 08:20

Well the "problem" is easily avoidable in a game like Counter-strike when you spot a cheater, you just leave the game join another server.

But when you're in an MMORPG that's not as easy to do. Players do report these things but the problem doesn't go away cause the philosophy is "It's all legal till you're caught"
People who do get caught often just start again.

Trax · 2004-11-13, 13:17

In mmorpgs these problems usually aren't that rampant as in regular online games because basically you can only exploit bugs in the game. Since this all takes place serverside, you can't use your own hacks like with other games. There are still other ways to grief other players, especially when there's pvp available but that's pretty much without using exploits. In other online games you can just play online and build up a list of people that play fair, then only start games with them? (like starting games with a password in d2)

Sokar · 2004-11-13, 13:24

Online gaming was never that cheats, exploits, jerks free to begin with. Anyone played Ultima Online in its early days? Man that was bad. Some people just like to mess around with other people, and those people can make your life a living hell fast. But, it's very fun if you do it to other people

JubeiYamazaki · 2004-11-13, 13:35

I recently played EQ2 and they totally revamped the shit out of that game, basically everything I thought they should of done, they done. For example, you can't power level, kill steal or grind skills. Everythings so balanced out for now, and they made everything look pretty as hell. You can say all the crap you want about EQ but if you compare it to EQ2 you have no idea what you're talking about since both games are now SO utterly different. Some companies are taking a giant foot forward into stomping all that shit out without taking away from the gaming experience, I mean look at Halo 2 Bungie really "fucked up" their online aspect of H2 just so people wouldn't cheat on the ranking system. But you can still play with friends and make friends as well.

Sokar · 2004-11-13, 14:04

Jubei, wrong thread? No one has said anything about EQ2 here.

Superchop · 2004-11-13, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sokar

Jubei, wrong thread? No one has said anything about EQ2 here.

No...but EQ2 is an online game...and he did talk about how there's less ways of cheating (at least for now)

As for people cheating...this is the main reason never play online games...the only 1 i play is Unreal Tournament and that's only with a 2 other people i know since we all know not one of us cheats...and IF i'm bored...i'll seek out a decent looking server and just play for a bit not expecting much out of it except a bit of entertainment...

JubeiYamazaki · 2004-11-13, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sokar

Jubei, wrong thread? No one has said anything about EQ2 here.

The only reason I said that is as soon as EQ is mentioned people start bitching about the game itself, so I guess I did a preemptive strike for those trying to compare the two. Too used jumping in and defending myself, I guess.

But my point still stands, that companies are aware and trying their best to stop it, although the lengths they have to go to is pretty sad.

JediNight · 2004-11-13, 17:19

Slugzilla: The general populace who play are the problem Slug, so even avoiding cheaters theres still alot of stuff that happens that makes me sad...

mxg · 2004-11-13, 18:28

YO JediNight u from FFXI ....because i think i kno u

Pabst · 2004-11-13, 19:20

You all might like the road taken by Bungie in Halo 2. Basically, the more you play a certain game type, and the better you get at it, the higher your "level" gets. As such, when you join a game (There are no server lists or anything), you are matched with other players within 5 levels of your player level.

As such, if you play consistenly, you will eventually settle into a level where its competitive for you to play.

Necrodeath · 2004-11-13, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediNight

I need to get this off my chest bc its been building for awhile: Someone else please tell me they too are totally fed up with the state of players in online gaming today.
By this I mean: 80% of the online gaming community is only interested in ruining the gaming experience of others, exploiting or abusing imbalances in the game, and ignoring how the game was designed to be played any chance they get?

I want to play online games, but the gaming experience is just exponentially worse than say 8 years ago during Quake1 or Team Fortress. It used to be most players went for skillful play in the game to win the objectives and be respected by others. Nowadays its just a bunch of rude "l33t d00dz" that just rack up high-scores the lamest way possible not giving a damn at all. Hell, in games like Counterstrike and Day of Defeat the "good players" in the game leagues use gameplay mechanics exploits as standard operating procedure and nobody thinks anything of it. Then theres RTS games like Starcraft that skill died with the advent of BGH and "Mucho Gold" maps, and Dawn of War with the quick rushes every single game basically. RTS suffers from the "3 minute game syndrome" I'll call it.

Well thats enough of a rant for now. What are everyone elses thoughts on this? Seems the only way to get a halfway decent online gaming experience nowadays is in some of the MMORPGs like FF11. FF11 is the only game I play lately that I get a generally pleasant experience out of and don't feel like personally visiting some peoples houses to punch them in the face

This is also why alot (if not all) games state the the experience can change when playing online.

First Person Shooters(FPS) - You have to know where to look. Find servers where people of about your level play, heck, find one that has additional anti-cheat software running (Cheating Death for Counter-Strike or DMW for MoH:AA for instance). If you don't like certain weapons (AWM/Shield in Counter-Strike, or Sniper Rifle in MoH:AA (although I see no harm in using a sniper rifle, a lot of people complain when I take one, calling it lame and such. I don't think it's lame that you can aim.) go play in servers that don't have these.

Real-Time Strategie(RTS) - If you do not want to play custom maps, then don't play them. It's all up to you. I see no harm in rushing? It's another type of playstyle used by lot's of people to achieve victory. It's the same way in real life. If you have an army stronger then the opponents, you don't wait for them to get about the same size army as yours. If they take longer to build and equal army, theyl probably started with building up better economics, and will win in the long run.

Sure, games are played for fun, but winning actually is quite fun.

RunningTARGET · 2004-11-16, 00:06

As far as rushing in Dawn of War goes, you can easily build a gun turret at the start with the starting resources which can easily defend you against a squad of marines (thats if they dont have a commander unit with them at the time).

hobobaggins · 2004-11-17, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediNight

Then theres RTS games like Starcraft that skill died with the advent of BGH and "Mucho Gold" maps, and Dawn of War with the quick rushes every single game basically. RTS suffers from the "3 minute game syndrome" I'll call it.

Well thats enough of a rant for now. What are everyone elses thoughts on this? Seems the only way to get a halfway decent online gaming experience nowadays is in some of the MMORPGs like FF11. FF11 is the only game I play lately that I get a generally pleasant experience out of and don't feel like personally visiting some peoples houses to punch them in the face

however Starcraft does not suffer from the 3 minute game syndrome. in a game with practically infinate minerals and gas, there is only a "who can build faster race" against the lesser adept opponents.

Starcraft is ALL strategy, and FAST MONEY maps, i believe just make the meaty part of the game quicker, as not everyone can sit for ~40 minutes a game.

The real game comes when you Find and exploit weaknesses in your opponent's defenses. LANing Starcraft is also ridiculous fun. Some people only single mindedly just build and send units to your base, but these players seem ridiculously easy to slaughter, as you fly over all defenses/ warp in / nuke in when you divert their attention. (see: fake-out Lockdown)

This is making me want to take up this game again.

FFXI Pwnz. the gill farmers are somewhat ruining the economy however. thank god that the Cap bug has been fixed.

Ecchifan · 2004-11-22, 10:04

It really depends on what you're looking to get out of your online gaming experience. I tried FFXI and dropped it, b/c I'm mainly a soloist who enjoy the occasional interaction w/ online gamers. But FFXI is focused on grouping and adventuring together, and that's just not my cup of tea (this dislike is based on my childhood experience of trying to hook up w/ buds for paper-n-dice based AD&D campaigns).

HK anime seeker · 2004-11-22, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningTARGET

As far as rushing in Dawn of War goes, you can easily build a gun turret at the start with the starting resources which can easily defend you against a squad of marines (thats if they dont have a commander unit with them at the time).

Heres a tip, turrets are worthless. I can get two squads of marine and FC out when you get your turret and one squad out. I'll just close combat the turret and beat it to death in less then ten seconds. Then I'll get the free win from you.

On the not of rush. Its just attacking early right? Whats wrong with that? I coaugh you unprepared so thats your fault not mine.

dreamless · 2004-11-22, 12:59

well, the problem about rushing is that it's not strategy, nor is it tactics, it's just memorize a build order and fast clicking. That's why a lot of the Koreans actually call StarCraft an "action game" instead of a "strategy game". I call it real time fast clicking game.

that's why I sometimes play nr10 games, at least that way both sides can have a sizeable army to do some real battles. I mean, in rush games, how often do you see those advanced units in battle? I don't call that enjoying the game to its fullest

JediNight · 2004-11-23, 10:34

HK anime seeker: Thats just the thing, there is no real skill to rushing, marine rushing especially. 2 scout squads, SM squad, FC ... rush to their base immediately. What I'm talking about is that as an Eldar player, the SM player will *always* rush and basically *always* win now bc Plasma now requires the Shrine and takes longer to build, and Entangle takes 2x as long to build -- so the SM has you rushed well before you can get Entangle. Plus the fact the Eldar player has dumped a ton of resources into teching just to hold off the initial rush. The Eldar just aren't equipped to handle a melee Hero early game, and it was made worse in 1.1 patch changes.

2004-11-13, 07:46	Link #1
JediNight キズランダム Join Date: Apr 2003	Online gaming down the tubes? I need to get this off my chest bc its been building for awhile: Someone else please tell me they too are totally fed up with the state of players in online gaming today. By this I mean: 80% of the online gaming community is only interested in ruining the gaming experience of others, exploiting or abusing imbalances in the game, and ignoring how the game was designed to be played any chance they get? I want to play online games, but the gaming experience is just exponentially worse than say 8 years ago during Quake1 or Team Fortress. It used to be most players went for skillful play in the game to win the objectives and be respected by others. Nowadays its just a bunch of rude "l33t d00dz" that just rack up high-scores the lamest way possible not giving a damn at all. Hell, in games like Counterstrike and Day of Defeat the "good players" in the game leagues use gameplay mechanics exploits as standard operating procedure and nobody thinks anything of it. Then theres RTS games like Starcraft that skill died with the advent of BGH and "Mucho Gold" maps, and Dawn of War with the quick rushes every single game basically. RTS suffers from the "3 minute game syndrome" I'll call it. Well thats enough of a rant for now. What are everyone elses thoughts on this? Seems the only way to get a halfway decent online gaming experience nowadays is in some of the MMORPGs like FF11. FF11 is the only game I play lately that I get a generally pleasant experience out of and don't feel like personally visiting some peoples houses to punch them in the face

2004-11-13, 08:13	Link #2
SlugZilla woofles Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 38	I agree with you about the degrade of online gaming. I think it's simply because there's a lot more people playing then there used to be. Back in the day people were just happy to play at all. But I have to disagree w/ you on the MMORPG part... A LOT of MMORPG players are really corrupt, did you know that? They're some of the lowest players you'll see online. They use a ton exploits, hacks and unethical "techniques" to rack up as much experience and money they can, and sell items on ebay.

2004-11-13, 08:15	Link #3
JediNight キズランダム Join Date: Apr 2003	Its true that some people do that in MMOs, but I hardly think its the majority -- and most of that doesn't directly affect your gameplay experience unless they are killstealing all the mobs in your area or something.

2004-11-13, 08:20	Link #4
SlugZilla woofles Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 38	Well the "problem" is easily avoidable in a game like Counter-strike when you spot a cheater, you just leave the game join another server. But when you're in an MMORPG that's not as easy to do. Players do report these things but the problem doesn't go away cause the philosophy is "It's all legal till you're caught" People who do get caught often just start again.

2004-11-13, 13:17	Link #5
Trax Rock beats scissors Join Date: Jul 2004	In mmorpgs these problems usually aren't that rampant as in regular online games because basically you can only exploit bugs in the game. Since this all takes place serverside, you can't use your own hacks like with other games. There are still other ways to grief other players, especially when there's pvp available but that's pretty much without using exploits. In other online games you can just play online and build up a list of people that play fair, then only start games with them? (like starting games with a password in d2)

2004-11-13, 13:24	Link #6
Sokar Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Berkeley	Online gaming was never that cheats, exploits, jerks free to begin with. Anyone played Ultima Online in its early days? Man that was bad. Some people just like to mess around with other people, and those people can make your life a living hell fast. But, it's very fun if you do it to other people

2004-11-13, 13:35	Link #7
JubeiYamazaki Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003	I recently played EQ2 and they totally revamped the shit out of that game, basically everything I thought they should of done, they done. For example, you can't power level, kill steal or grind skills. Everythings so balanced out for now, and they made everything look pretty as hell. You can say all the crap you want about EQ but if you compare it to EQ2 you have no idea what you're talking about since both games are now SO utterly different. Some companies are taking a giant foot forward into stomping all that shit out without taking away from the gaming experience, I mean look at Halo 2 Bungie really "fucked up" their online aspect of H2 just so people wouldn't cheat on the ranking system. But you can still play with friends and make friends as well.

2004-11-13, 14:04	Link #8
Sokar Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Berkeley	Jubei, wrong thread? No one has said anything about EQ2 here.

2004-11-13, 17:19	Link #11
JediNight キズランダム Join Date: Apr 2003	Slugzilla: The general populace who play are the problem Slug, so even avoiding cheaters theres still alot of stuff that happens that makes me sad...

2004-11-13, 18:28	Link #12
mxg The Lone Gamer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: A changed place Age: 35	YO JediNight u from FFXI ....because i think i kno u

2004-11-13, 19:20	Link #13
Pabst The Blue Ribbon Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Radford, VA Age: 40	You all might like the road taken by Bungie in Halo 2. Basically, the more you play a certain game type, and the better you get at it, the higher your "level" gets. As such, when you join a game (There are no server lists or anything), you are matched with other players within 5 levels of your player level. As such, if you play consistenly, you will eventually settle into a level where its competitive for you to play.

2004-11-16, 00:06	Link #15
RunningTARGET Bishoujo sweet! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Australia	As far as rushing in Dawn of War goes, you can easily build a gun turret at the start with the starting resources which can easily defend you against a squad of marines (thats if they dont have a commander unit with them at the time).

2004-11-22, 10:04	Link #17
Ecchifan Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA	It really depends on what you're looking to get out of your online gaming experience. I tried FFXI and dropped it, b/c I'm mainly a soloist who enjoy the occasional interaction w/ online gamers. But FFXI is focused on grouping and adventuring together, and that's just not my cup of tea (this dislike is based on my childhood experience of trying to hook up w/ buds for paper-n-dice based AD&D campaigns).

2004-11-22, 12:59	Link #19
dreamless /Ultimate Magic Attack!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Time Warp/Future	well, the problem about rushing is that it's not strategy, nor is it tactics, it's just memorize a build order and fast clicking. That's why a lot of the Koreans actually call StarCraft an "action game" instead of a "strategy game". I call it real time fast clicking game. that's why I sometimes play nr10 games, at least that way both sides can have a sizeable army to do some real battles. I mean, in rush games, how often do you see those advanced units in battle? I don't call that enjoying the game to its fullest

2004-11-23, 10:34	Link #20
JediNight キズランダム Join Date: Apr 2003	HK anime seeker: Thats just the thing, there is no real skill to rushing, marine rushing especially. 2 scout squads, SM squad, FC ... rush to their base immediately. What I'm talking about is that as an Eldar player, the SM player will always rush and basically always win now bc Plasma now requires the Shrine and takes longer to build, and Entangle takes 2x as long to build -- so the SM has you rushed well before you can get Entangle. Plus the fact the Eldar player has dumped a ton of resources into teching just to hold off the initial rush. The Eldar just aren't equipped to handle a melee Hero early game, and it was made worse in 1.1 patch changes.