(L) Girls und Panzer

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

I wonder why the MAUS didnt shown up in the first rally point before starting the battle?

Size and weight. And the fact that, had it been on the field, it would have either broken down (this was a finicky machine, even more than the Tiger P!), or gotten bogged down in the terrain (it was heavy, and actually needed special roadways to transport). Frankly, I think it was sitting in that housing complex because it was the only place it could even MOVE properly!

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Why people put only "calm" and "panic" as the two choices is beyond me. Isn't there a middle ground?

Military training is supposed to stamp out the latter (flight) and have the former (fight) prevail in the high pressure situations soldiers are usually find themselves in, so I don't think so. And just how much of that kind of indoctrination are we supposed to expect from high school girls anyway, even from a serious-business school like Black Forest?

Lets face it, their tankers scattered like frightened chickens. Some measure of control managed to assert itself by the time Ooarai started rolling down the hill (see the Jagdpanzer IVs), but by then it was too late to do anything.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

Massive heavier armour and large caliber is very effective at Urban warfare, with the powerful gun can demolish large structures with a single shot and the armor to withstand close encounters with enemy anti-tank weapons.

Not really. Those vehicles were mostly lost to German STuG IIIs. The German heavies were best off firing at targets at long ranges (1000+m). In cities, they lose that most important advantage so they're best employed outside of them.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Size and weight. And the fact that, had it been on the field, it would have either broken down (this was a finicky machine, even more than the Tiger P!), or gotten bogged down in the terrain (it was heavy, and actually needed special roadways to transport). Frankly, I think it was sitting in that housing complex because it was the only place it could even MOVE properly!

It's still bound to break down! Even the Soviets didn't try to drive their Maus, and I'm sure that Maho raided Kubinka to get hers.

[Ithekro]

They probably paid to have it built. Some company still build these these it seems, since Ooarai was able to get a Hetzer kit.

Ooarai has a Tiger (P). There are no surviving Tiger (P)s in the world. And only one used in combat as a command tank. The rest were converted into other uses before being destroyed in those other uses.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

It's still bound to break down! Even the Soviets didn't try to drive their Maus, and I'm sure that Maho raided Kubinka to get hers.

Err, the Kuromorimine Maus is likely a replica made in-house rather than the one on display in Russia in the real world. Much like the case of Oorai's Tiger P actually, and likely many of the tanks in-show too.

I doubt many of these are vintage WW2, and are more probably less than a generation old (25~ years). On some level, they're just functional replicas.

[Ithekro]

Ooarai tanks are all at least 20 years old since they found them left over from the last time the school has a sports team. And since they were marked with numbers 1-8, it seems they had only 8 tanks back then (or else they sold the higher numbered tanks).

I keep wondering if the tank program's shut down at Ooarai had anything to do with Shiho's time in high school. The shut down and her likely age seem to match up.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

As an aside, I think this is the first time that the Ooarai team called Miho "Taichou." I can't recall them calling her that anytime before.

The student council has done it before, but I can't say for sure if any of the others have.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

*Shrugs*

Why people put only "calm" and "panic" as the two choices is beyond me. Isn't there a middle ground?

Because when you're calm you live, and when you panic you die.

Paraphrasing from something I was once told.

Note fighter pilots - hell, pilots of any sort - who stay calm even when the plane is falling apart all around them. Chuck Yeager is a great example.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Military training is supposed to stamp out the latter (flight) and have the former (fight) prevail in the high pressure situations soldiers are usually find themselves in, so I don't think so. And just how much of that kind of indoctrination are we supposed to expect from high school girls anyway, even from a serious-business school like Black Forest?

Lets face it, their tankers scattered like frightened chickens. Some measure of control managed to assert itself by the time Ooarai started rolling down the hill (see the Jagdpanzer IVs), but by then it was too late to do anything.

Exactly.

Now, in all fairness, we shouldn't expect high school girls to be on the level of seasoned tankers, as obviously they won't have the same amount of time with their machines. However, at the same time, I'm inclined to hold Black Forest to a higher standard, because they've been all serious business about this shit.

Really, after all of Erika's talk, at the end Black Forest has not impressed me throughout this match. It's quite clear that their wins have been less on tactical skill, and more on big guns, big tanks, formation tactics and sticking to the plan. And when their plan falls to pieces, so do their girls.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Err, the Kuromorimine Maus is likely a replica made in-house rather than the one on display in Russia in the real world. Much like the case of Oorai's Tiger P actually, and likely many of the tanks in-show too.

I doubt many of these are vintage WW2, and are more probably less than a generation old (25~ years). On some level, they're just functional replicas.

It was a joke. I was going to go on with a remark about them getting the Kubinka Maus to run even though it's completely rusted through, but now I can't.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Exactly.

Now, in all fairness, we shouldn't expect high school girls to be on the level of seasoned tankers, as obviously they won't have the same amount of time with their machines. However, at the same time, I'm inclined to hold Black Forest to a higher standard, because they've been all serious business about this shit.

Really, after all of Erika's talk, at the end Black Forest has not impressed me throughout this match. It's quite clear that their wins have been less on tactical skill, and more on big guns, big tanks, formation tactics and sticking to the plan. And when their plan falls to pieces, so do their girls.

I'm inclined to be even less generous. As I said, if you believe Miho OVA3, in KMM Armor is not only a club or elective (one class), but an actual department and thus full-time. Plus it is KMM so some of them should have been playing even before High School. Plus they get to use live shells all the time.

You would think they'll all at least reach competency by now.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Military training is supposed to stamp out the latter (flight) and have the former (fight) prevail in the high pressure situations soldiers are usually find themselves in, so I don't think so. And just how much of that kind of indoctrination are we supposed to expect from high school girls anyway, even from a serious-business school like Black Forest?

Lets face it, their tankers scattered like frightened chickens. Some measure of control managed to assert itself by the time Ooarai started rolling down the hill (see the Jagdpanzer IVs), but by then it was too late to do anything.

That wasn't even close to "scattering like frightened chickens". I suppose this is where we have a difference in views: It could have been a lot worse, but how they handled it showed they had enough training. Anything less would have resulted in a greater catastrophe.

[Ithekro]

They seem to be competent tank drivers and can do field repair. They also are very good at formation driving. Their accuracy could use some work and they seem a bit too ridged in their tactics.

Tank 17 was going to turn around to deal with the Hetzer but was taken out by the StuG as Miho started her retreat.

Ooarai's accuracy isn't much better. But they are better. Aside from the Maus (they all hit the Maus) The only teams that seem to hit their targets at least part of the time are the StuG, the Panzer IV, the Hetzer, and the Type 89 (which does them no good anyway). The Char B1 doesn't seem to hit much and the M3 Lee doesn't hit much either. The Type 3 never got a shot anyway and the Tiger (P) crew is new at this, though they hopefully will be up to hitting once the ranges get close like Miho tends to fight.

[Master_Yoma]

Well its good to see this again and wow Miho jumping so far on little momentum

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Their accuracy could use some work

To be fair, they're using WW2 technology, where it took minutes to get a good aim. Their accuracy was quite good given that they were firing on the move.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

Force the Oorai tanks to remain buttoned up, slowing them down. The explosive effect may also, as Ithekro said, cause the tanks to throw a track, or at least damage one.

IRL HE is designed to throw shrapnel (bad for infantry!) and destroy enarmored targets by making big holes in them, such as buildings, etc, but they fare very poorly at penetrating armor.

Speaking of which...I can't remember but have they used HEAT before in any of the previous matches? Against simple RHA of WWII armour, it's quite effective equalizer at close range

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Speaking of which...I can't remember but have they used HEAT before in any of the previous matches? Against simple RHA of WWII armour, it's quite effective equalizer at close range

1. None of the guns used had HEAT rounds for them during WW2.
2. How are you going to simulate HEAT rounds?

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Speaking of which...I can't remember but have they used HEAT before in any of the previous matches?

They all use special non-penetrating ammo, so no HEAT. As for the high explosive rounds, my interpretation was that Maho used them for effect and disruption (see how it made Ooarai paused for a bit as their tanks were peppered by debris).

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Speaking of which...I can't remember but have they used HEAT before in any of the previous matches? Against simple RHA of WWII armour, it's quite effective equalizer at close range

HEAT ignores range for the purpose of penetration. However, the World War II-era HEAT wasn't all that good, and most AFVs just used high-velocity AP rounds instead. Even the 122mm and 152mm Soviet guns that should have benefited the most from HEAT rarely ever used it because they weren't worth it.

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

2. How are you going to simulate HEAT rounds?

Just give those rounds higher simulated penetration values. They don't actually have to do more real damage.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

HEAT ignores range for the purpose of penetration. However, the World War II-era HEAT wasn't all that good, and most AFVs just used high-velocity AP rounds instead. Even the 122mm and 152mm Soviet guns that should have benefited the most from HEAT rarely ever used it because they weren't worth it.

HEAT shell has lower velocity in general. = shorter range.

1. None of the guns used had HEAT rounds for them during WW2.

IIRC, D-25T on IS-2 had HEAT. So did KwK 40

As for how you sim them...well, it's all calculated by computer anyway

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

IIRC, D-25T on IS-2 had HEAT. So did KwK 40

*Facepalm*

Forget I said that,