Bakemonogatari - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[monir]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

A quick death then? figured the slow process of the curse would actually repeat on the boy. Then again, the snake failed the first time and the curse itself could also change when it comes to returning to the one that summoned it.

Now, where's Meme when you need a bit more info on this sort of things.

Either way, seeing an empty seat in her classroom could be just as shocking, specially for someone like Nadeko.

The snake was going to carry out the constricting curse. The final stage for that curse was a squeezing death. Once Araragi forcefully peeled away the snake, he became the new host for the snake to carry out the curse. And once the snake realized Araragi might be too much to mess with, it went back to the summoner of the curse to resume the final part of the curse.

I also don't know if she will feel any sympathy toward someone who has caused her so much pain and suffering. Wonder how long she had to endure this curse.

[Zetsubo]

It was always a death curse. A curse that was designed from day one to crush their victim until dead. This curse was placed by amateurs so it was not initially activated.

Obviously however the curse was still there.

Sengoku found out and unluckily went to lift the curse at the wrong place. A place where oddities were gathering because of Shinobu-chan a royal vampire.

So Nadeko activates the curse and sadly accelerates it (making it worse) by the number of times in frustration she tried to lift it. Essentially every time she tried to free herself she shortened her life time.

In real life when prey struggles against boa-constrictors the coils of the snake get tighter as well as the prey gets weaker. It is a slow struggle till death.

Also consider the history of this Anime.

Remember Kanbarus action of jealousy toward Koyomi. She wanted him dead.
You really think this love spurned boy place a mere "discomfort" curse on Nadeko ? He wanted her dead.
You really think that Nadeko's resentful female class mate cast a mere discomfort curse ? She too wanted her dead.

But the bad luck was contagious.

Just like Nadeko's bad luck to go to the wrong place to lift the curse, it was the boys bad luck that Koyomi only noticed one snake, therefore Oshino only makes one release charm..the girl is saved not the boy.

Do remember however that it was the boy that placed the curse first.

The female classmate only placed her curse, in response, after she found out Nadeko rejected the boy. More bad luck for the boy.

It seems that fate is not without a sense of justice.

Curses like chickens always come home to roost.

[DJ Trouble]

Has a better version aired yet?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by DJ Trouble

Has a better version aired yet?

Not so far... there was so much unfinished in this episode I'll be quite surprised if we see a fixed version before the DVD release.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

It was always a death curse. A curse that was designed from day one to crush their victim until dead. This curse was placed by amateurs so it was not initially activated.

Obviously however the curse was still there.

Sengoku found out and unluckily went to lift the curse at the wrong place. A place where oddities were gathering because of Shinobu-chan a royal vampire.

So Nadeko activates the curse and sadly accelerates it (making it worse) by the number of times in frustration she tried to lift it. Essentially every time she tried to free herself she shortened her life time.

In real life when prey struggles against boa-constrictors the coils of the snake get tighter as well as the prey gets weaker. It is a slow struggle till death.

Also consider the history of this Anime.

Remember Kanbarus action of jealousy toward Koyomi. She wanted him dead.
You really think this love spurned boy place a mere "discomfort" curse on Nadeko ? He wanted her dead.
You really think that Nadeko's resentful female class mate cast a mere discomfort curse ? She too wanted her dead.

But the bad luck was contagious.

Just like Nadeko's bad luck to go to the wrong place to lift the curse, it was the boys bad luck that Koyomi only noticed one snake, therefore Oshino only makes one release charm..the girl is saved not the boy.

Do remember however that it was the boy that placed the curse first.

The female classmate only placed her curse, in response, after she found out Nadeko rejected the boy. More bad luck for the boy.

It seems that fate is not without a sense of justice.

Curses like chickens always come home to roost.

Actually in novel Araragi didn't realize that it was the boy who placed the second curse until the very end. Also, he wasn't sure that the curse would definitely go back to the boy since the curse that the charm got rid of could have been either the girl or the boy. Either way, we don't know if it was the girl or the boy that got cursed in the end.

[brain]

I really tried to enjoy and participate in this discussion, but pardon me being a tiny bit off-topic: the number of posts with no content in them other than complaining about animation quality completely ruined the thread. It's unreadable.

edit: Yeah, guess I'm meta-ruining the thread.

[zato_1one]

I feel it's strange when Araragi said that the curse shouldn't have activated because it was placed by an amateur. If the curse didn't activate then how could Nadeko found out that she was cursed. On top of that, she also knew that it was the snake curse. I doubt that her friend told her that. I think that the curse was actually activated but might be not fully. Nadeko read the book and knew that she was cursed with the snake curse judging by her symptom. And the curse was accelerated further because Nadeko couldn't lift the curse properly.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I feel it's strange when Araragi said that the curse shouldn't have activated because it was placed by an amateur. If the curse didn't activate then how could Nadeko found out that she was cursed. On top of that, she also knew that it was the snake curse. I doubt that her friend told her that. I think that the curse was actually activated but might be not fully. Nadeko read the book and knew that she was cursed with the snake curse judging by her symptom. And the curse was accelerated further because Nadeko couldn't lift the curse properly.

Lets say, based on the Title history so far.

Same way Koyomi realised Senjougahara had no weight.

By chance.

Same way Koyomi found out Nadeko was cursed.

By chance.

Perhaps it is therefore reasonable to conclude that Nadeko found out she was cursed by chance.

[BetoJR]

Going by how it was never stated in the episode that the curse was always a deadly one (they even go out of their way to say that curses aren't a big deal, and that poor Sengoku was unlucky), I stand by my previous statement.

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Perhaps it is therefore reasonable to conclude that Nadeko found out she was cursed by chance.

It's believable that she might know that she was cursed by chance. But how could she accurately know that she was cursed from the snake curse if someone didn't tell her or the curse wasn't activated?

[monir]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Going by how it was never stated in the episode that the curse was always a deadly one (they even go out of their way to say that curses aren't a big deal, and that poor Sengoku was unlucky), I stand by my previous statement.

You are right! The curse wasn't supposed to be anything serious initially. Once she came to perform the ritual to get the curse off of her in that shrine, it became a serious one.

Originally Posted by omimon

Actually in novel Araragi didn't realize that it was the boy who placed the second curse until the very end. Also, he wasn't sure that the curse would definitely go back to the boy since the curse that the charm got rid of could have been either the girl or the boy. Either way, we don't know if it was the girl or the boy that got cursed in the end.

That's a good point. The way Araragi came to the conclusion that there was a second curse, and that curse might have been put by the boy Sengoku rejected... I automatically assumed the first snake was by the girl. On the contrary, no where in the episode it was said which snake was absolved, so the surviving snake could belong to either of the summoners.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Going by how it was never stated in the episode that the curse was always a deadly one (they even go out of their way to say that curses aren't a big deal, and that poor Sengoku was unlucky), I stand by my previous statement.

Umm,

In this show, oddities dealing with unrequited love and jealousy tend to be quite deadly. Kanbaru for the win ?

This anime has a lot of threats of death even a few not from oddities.

Hitagi threatened to kill Araragi. Twice !

Rememebr her last death threat ?

Over what ? Remember ?

Love issues.

Follow the authors trail man :P

As for the curse.

It isn't a big deal when placed by an amateur because they do not know how to activate it. Nadeko was indeed unlucky, she tried to remove it and thus activated it.

Then the thing tried to kill her.

How the hell does it move from not a deadly curse to a deadly one ?

A+B = C

Curse + Activation = Death

Are you suggesting that the curse when activated wouldn't try to kill the girl ?

Why is it trying now ?

Originally Posted by zato_1one

It's believable that she might know that she was cursed by chance. But how could she accurately know that she was cursed from the snake curse if someone didn't tell her or the curse wasn't activated?

Because we can also assume that she found out what kind of curse it was at same time. She also knew that two people cursed her.

Given that Koyomi saw Sengoku in the book shop by chance reading information on snake curses out of the encyclopedia.

Is it far fetched to assume that Sengoku saw the boy/or girl suspiciously purchasing or reading curse material relevant to the constrictor ?

Thus realizing what they were up to ?

The same way Koyomi was able to piece things together from observation, I am sure Sengoku did the same.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by monir

You are right! The curse wasn't supposed to be anything serious initially. Once she came to perform the ritual to get the curse off of her in that shrine, it became a serious one.

A bomb without setting the fuse is still a bomb.

No one wants to know they have a bomb in their home, and not try to get rid of it.

Perhaps blowing themselves up in the process, however, If the bomb wasn't there in the first place........

Originally Posted by moni

That's a good point. The way Araragi came to the conclusion that there was a second curse, and that curse might have been put by the boy Sengoku rejected... I automatically assumed the first snake was by the girl. On the contrary, no where in the episode it was said which snake was absolved, so the surviving snake could belong to either of the summoners.

gg subs...

Araragi: "But Kanbaru the snake will go back to guy who Sengoku rejected."

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

gg subs...

Araragi: "But Kanbaru the snake will go back to guy who Sengoku rejected."

The question is whether or not he's in a position to know, not what he said. Given that he's not an expert on these things, it seems likely that he wouldn't know. Then again, it's also possible that the charm Oshino gave him was targeted at the girl's snake in some way (which would explain why it only worked on one of them).

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Because we can also assume that she found out what kind of curse it was at same time. She also knew that two people cursed her.

Given that Koyomi saw Sengoku in the book shop by chance reading information on snake curses out of the encyclopedia.

Is it far fetched to assume that Sengoku saw the boy/or girl suspiciously purchasing or reading curse material relevant to the constrictor ?

Thus realizing what they were up to ?

The same way Koyomi was able to piece things together from observation, I am sure Sengoku did the same.

I don't think that she knew that two people cursed her because she told Araragi that she was cursed by her friend. I also think of what made Nadeko realized that she was cursed. I think that part of the curse might already activate because if it wasn't. Nadeko must be a very very scary girl. She may be on the same level as Senjougahara or even beyond that. Even if someone told her about the curse or she suspected that she was cursed. At least when she read the book and realized that she didn't have any strange symptoms at all. Rather than thinking that it was just a hoax or prank to scare her. She totally believed it and went so far to cruelly kill those snakes by chopping them into pieces. What a scary girl. Just imagine what will happen if someone tells her that her boyfriend cheats on her.

It's true that Meme told Araragi that amateur couldn't handle the snake curse. But that was also his assumption. He didn't really know Nadeko's friend. They might be amateur. But who knows that this was the first time they did this.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

A bomb without setting the fuse is still a bomb.

No one wants to know they have a bomb in their home, and not try to get rid of it.

Agreed! Sengoku's action is of someone who was very scared, so even if the act itself was disturbing, it was fully on par with the natural instinct of self preservation.

gg subs...

Araragi: "But Kanbaru the snake will go back to guy who Sengoku rejected."

Downloading gg... but like Clarste pointed out, Araragi shouldn't have been able to tell which snake was which.

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I don't think that she knew that two people cursed her because she told Araragi that she was cursed by her friend. I also think of what made Nadeko realized that she was cursed. I think that part of the curse might already activate because if it wasn't. Nadeko must be a very very scary girl. She may be on the same level as Senjougahara or even beyond that. Even if someone told her about the curse or she suspected that she was cursed. At least when she read the book and realized that she didn't have any strange symptoms at all. Rather than thinking that it was just a hoax or prank to scare her. She totally believed it and went so far to cruelly kill those snakes by chopping them into pieces. What a scary girl. Just imagine what will happen if someone tells her that her boyfriend cheats on her.

If I remember my middle school days, no one was able to keep any secrets because we all liked to talk. Sengoku probably came to find out from others that she was cursed, and the type of curse it was. Sengoku is indeed a scary girl.

[Zetsubo]

The self defense mechanism of an adolescent girl is something to be feared.
-

Araragi Koyomi - Bakemonogatari - Season 1 - Episode 9.

Who in their experience as a human being can deny that ?

[omimon]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I don't think that she knew that two people cursed her because she told Araragi that she was cursed by her friend. I also think of what made Nadeko realized that she was cursed. I think that part of the curse might already activate because if it wasn't. Nadeko must be a very very scary girl. She may be on the same level as Senjougahara or even beyond that. Even if someone told her about the curse or she suspected that she was cursed. At least when she read the book and realized that she didn't have any strange symptoms at all. Rather than thinking that it was just a hoax or prank to scare her. She totally believed it and went so far to cruelly kill those snakes by chopping them into pieces. What a scary girl. Just imagine what will happen if someone tells her that her boyfriend cheats on her.

It's true that Meme told Araragi that amateur couldn't handle the snake curse. But that was also his assumption. He didn't really know Nadeko's friend. They might be amateur. But who knows that this was the first time they did this.

You got most of it even though I assume you didn't read the novel. What actually happened was that when the girl found out that Sengoku rejected the guy she deliberately taunted her say that she placed a curse on her. ( At the same time the guy started to hate Sengoku and also placed the same curse on her.) The reason why they both chose this curse is because supposedly the curse is famous among the student in Sengoku's school. And as I said already in my previous post, Araragi didn't realize that it was the boy who placed the second curse until the last couple of pages. With that being said, you can see that the animation team actually change the plot a little with Araragi finding out during the fight. Actually, when you think about it Araragi doesn't really have any actual prove that it was really the guy who placed the second curse, it could have easily been another person, it was all baseless guessing. (Sengoku also thought that there was only one curse.)

[Yuutsu]

Um, I'm very late to this thread but... the opening made me rip a new hole in my pants. I feel dirty. : (

[fish eric]

Originally Posted by brain

I really tried to enjoy and participate in this discussion, but pardon me being a tiny bit off-topic: the number of posts with no content in them other than complaining about animation quality completely ruined the thread. It's unreadable..

<sarcasm>
Yea, dont you hate it when people post a reply that is just a complaint instead of content related to the current discussion
</sarcasm>


Alot of post the last couple pages are saying that the boy who made the curse didn't deserve to have it come back to him and replies to those post arguing the motivation of said boy, but that was never mention in the episode at all. We know nothing about the character or his motivation so it is pointless to argue if or if not he was being malicious.


Does anyone know if site that stream anime episodes ever update the shows when the DVDs come out?

I didn't download ep 10 because I just wanted to watch it when it came out(didn't want to wait to dl). Will the streaming anime websites have updated episode of Bakemonogatari when they come out?