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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 16 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 74 | 55.22% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 31 | 23.13% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 16.42% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 5 | 3.73% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 2 | 1.49% | |
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-04-23, 09:57 | Link #221 |
I Miss NEET Life
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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You know, in the light of the recent events, I can't help but think that the time period when the 4th Grail War takes place is more than appropriate for Kiritsugu who is the closest thing in Type-Moonverse, or even in the current batch of anime, to a 1990s anti-hero.
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2012-04-23, 13:28 | Link #224 | |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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2012-04-23, 14:21 | Link #228 | |||
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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honorable conduct?
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2012-04-23, 14:47 | Link #229 |
Stardust is Delicious~!
Join Date: Nov 2011
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I'm obviously not saying massacres didn't happen before. Attrocities have been happening since the stone age, and quite often at that. What I mean is that honor and chivalry were not deemed stupid ideas until more recently. In the Civil War, despite how bloody it was, it was very common for generals to publicly shed tears for opponents. In fact, in the case of Joseph Johnson, he even died because he refused to wear more in bone-chilling cold despite his poor health at his enemy rival's funeral, as he deemed it disrespectful to a man responsible for killing a lot of his friends and underlings. As Kiritsugu said, soldier were often still lead by the illusion of glory. Even if atrocities were happening, the population still believed in heroism. It was the trench warfare of WWI that really changed the way people thought about war.
But even then, when the Red Baron, famous for killing nearly a hundred Allies, was shot down, the Allies gave him a burial in the highest honor, and some even reportedly wept for the loss of such a great "hero" despite him being on the other side. But yes, this is not going to happen today. Just imagine some Taliban fighter being honored for being skilled! For warfare today it is just us vs the enemy. I wonder if that's for better or for worse? |
2012-04-23, 15:04 | Link #230 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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if you look at continental Europe and do some research on the 30 yr war and Napoleonic war, you would realize while Honor and chilvary were on people's lip. It was only lip service, armies in Europe and elsewhere routinely did what had to win regardless of any notion of Honor or fair play.
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2012-04-23, 15:50 | Link #232 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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World War II was probably the last time there was any honor shown. It wasn't common and usually outside of combat. There was respect for ones enemies. "An Officer and a Gentleman" I think is the term. It shown mostly in the Navy and Air Forces of the various combatants of the time. Especially in the air. There is still a lot of respect on the Allied side for several high ranking (and high scoring) Luftwaffe pilots and some for their Japanese Naval Air Arm allies. Though generally when it comes to the Japanese officers, it is their Naval Officers that get respect from the Allies. Then there is Rommel who is respected still.
There were Allied soldiers who were respected by the Axis officers. Though it seems the Armies of all involved had their share of bastards who where the ones that got things done. Honor and glory are pretty much gone and only left for naval battles and dogfighting. Both of which are pretty much gone now. It is rare to have a naval action anymore and most air combat is done with missiles so no need for a dogfight, nor are there many instances with huge kill numbers for fighter pilots so Aces and the like are also something uncommon. Thus the "Knights of the Sky" is something of the past as well. In World War One there were instances of ceasefires for holidays were soldiers from both sides might sit and drink together. Or instances where wounded from one side would be deliver them back to their enemy's side of the trenches. Today there is no such respect. But then there hasn't been a large scale war between equals in a long time. It is almost always one large power verses a smaller power with a lot of guerilla and/or terrorist tactics. Very rare for to have a stand up army verse army fight, much less a naval action or more than a few air duels.
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2012-04-23, 15:55 | Link #233 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Ugh, Xellos wasn't wrong you know. Honor is rarely anything more than lip-service in war. For every tale you have of "honor on the battlefield" you have a hundred of atrocities.
The point is that the notion of honor has blinded many throughout the years but more recently people are far less fooled by it. |
2012-04-23, 16:06 | Link #234 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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But he doesn't want to do that. He'd rather die in one of these catastrophes trying to make a name for himself than live on safely but without being acknowledged. Like Rider said, he is a fool. Albeit one of the lovable kind. |
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2012-04-23, 17:42 | Link #235 |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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I heard in passing once before that tanks got invented was because the British still tried to uphold chivalry even in war. At the age of gunpowder such thing is outdated, but with taaaanks they can still pose as being that formidable knight of chivalry even in gunpowder age. The British were such gentlemen weren't they?
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2012-04-24, 08:58 | Link #239 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Ultimately though, I loved how at first there's this great battle between two knights who have similar thoughts on chivalry. You see them start to fight and you think it's going to be this honorable, idealized duel, almost in the vein of those spirits' own heroic tales.
And then Kiritsugu comes and subverts the hell out it. Awesome contrast. I also liked the Mercutio vibes I got from Lancer at his death, the way he met his end because of another's battle, and the curses he called upon all of them, even Saber, kind of a "plague on all your grail wishes!" or something like that |
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