2004-04-28, 16:29 | Link #441 | ||
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38
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wtf,
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2004-04-28, 16:34 | Link #442 | ||||
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Now, do you really believe that, say, if USA make the same effort for Iraq - do you believe that Iraq will be able to resurrect like Germany? Let me guess - hell no. Again - nation's mentality is very important factor. Quote:
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Can you please list me countries that have monoply on space right now? Russia and USA, that's it. So, listening to you, all other small countries dont have a chance to prosper, right? :) Let me say this again - space resources mean NOTHING if the nation doesnt know what freedom/private property/democracy/culture (and so on) is. Space resources wont help Manangga at all :) Quote:
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2004-04-28, 16:39 | Link #443 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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I never said that mananggas people are "useless and that they are less of a human". I never said that all mananggas people are terrorists. I just said that from my point of view, 120000 scientists and simply educated people are more important to humankind than blah-blah-blah. I said it because i was forced to, but it is true, isnt it? Any more misunderstandings? |
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2004-04-28, 16:43 | Link #444 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38
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Have you even watched the anime? the anime doesn't give indication of whether the other small countries are doing well, or whether its just russia and usa that are capable of space. are you saying that because thats what it is in real life. In any case,l i doubt that its only russia and usa because theres a union with like 8 leaders, the people who met up which suggests that more than those 2 countries involved. Also the country that claire came from has people becoming astonaughts and making astronaught suits and they are totally underdeveloped.
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2004-04-28, 16:46 | Link #445 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38
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2004-04-28, 16:57 | Link #446 | |
I refuse to die dammit!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK
Age: 47
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Every human being has potential, who is to say that the next Einstein could not come out of a nation such as Mannaga, if only they had the education they deserved? The one thing I am glad about is that this series is making people think about these kind of things. Mostly we simply put them to the back of our minds and simply ignore them so that we can continue our lives without thinking about the enormity of the issues. Just to share my viewpoint I dont condone terrorism and I do believe in the development of space by mankind, and obviously this will be driven by those with money (in our current capitalistic society). However ensuring our species can eventually leave the cradle of this Earth should be a goal everyone strives for, alongside ensuring that no-one should ever starve or that debilitating diseases should be eradicated completely. For if we remain here on this Earth until we have used all our resources, or some war or epidemic or natural disaster results in our destruction then hundreds and thousands of years of culture and technology etc will have been for nothing and we will have wasted the potential that we have as a species and it won't matter if we have world peace when our Sun turns into a red giant and swallows the Earth (in a few hundred million years) unless we have the ability to move to another viable world. Last edited by tsurumaru; 2004-04-30 at 07:35. |
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2004-04-28, 17:01 | Link #447 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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You cant compare India or Pakistan with Manangga. Manangga is, afaiu, typical african country with no goverment and constant civil war. I highly doubt that US or any other western country oficially sells weapons to such country. What i want to say... Well, i dunno. My common sense tells me that USA wont sell any weapons to countries such as Somali.. I dunno :) May be i'm wrong. I wanted to say that most probably USSR sold/gave 100 times more weaponry to various mananggas than US and Western Europe combined :) Quote:
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2004-04-28, 21:22 | Link #448 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Japan
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2004-04-28, 21:46 | Link #449 | ||
冤枉的小狗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: South East Asia
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No. Everyone is selflish in their goals and ambitions. What I complained is how anime Planetes stacked all the extremely-selfish personalities on the side of space exploration. Why don't they show Dorfl espousing space exploration but with him explaining why its necessary (colonisation -> alleviation of overcrowding)? Why don't they show the normal workers in their space environment being totally happy and basking in a new surrounding unlimited in horizon? Instead they show every minor character who gone off to venture in space dying or ruined and only on returning to Earth would they eke out a good happy life. Spoiler:
This is polarisation. They ignored the other possibilities that are not 'dreams' and constantly blasted us with this 'moralistic' ideal. Here's another polarisation (but of a stereotype). Hachimaki is transformed into some bum who is so down-and-out on his luck. Everything he does is always suddenly confronted with some insurmountable odds. Then they keep sticking in his friend who 'has it all' next to him to try and contrast it out starkly. All in all, it just made me wanna puke during that 1st phase elimination test. Manga Hachi didn't get so much shit but his trials and tribulations still come across well and made me more interested in him. P.S. I do find SoulCatcher extreme in the way he expresses his views (i.e. attitude). But he backs it up with good arguments and some refreshing (to me) frank talk. Quote:
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2004-04-28, 22:20 | Link #450 | |
original vampire
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: southeast asia
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So what you're saying is that Planetes anime tries to polarise the viewers into taking side with the terrorists. Funny though, I never did, and reading the posts here (especially from Soulcatcher, the paragon of capitalism), I don't think many people does either. I guess most people just feel comfortable siding with the main characters. |
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2004-04-28, 22:43 | Link #451 | |
冤枉的小狗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: South East Asia
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The unfortunate side-effect (perhaps unintentional) however is that they come off as terrorist sympathisers. I don't think they support terrorism though, just the attitude that "Oh it is so bad. But we must understand them... blah blah blah" ( until their family gets their heads and limbs blown off to who knows where, then we hear "^&@!%&*&* die die die!" ) |
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2004-04-28, 23:06 | Link #452 | |
original vampire
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: southeast asia
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How is this terrorist arc done differently in the manga anyway? Are the terrorists portrayed as being more evil? Are the space exploration people portrayed in a more positive light? |
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2004-04-29, 00:47 | Link #453 | |
Feldmarschall
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There is a lot of realistic historical precedent for this. A lot of "third world" countries today which we look at as being poor and backward weren't always that way. There were thriving advanced cultures in Central and South America, and in the middle east and asia, which got totally screwed over by Western interfence in the age of colonization because their weapons tech was a bit behind or because they weren't resistant to the myriad of diseases brought in by the filthy Europeans. A strong attitude of "How did those dirty A-rabs get on top of our oil?" and "What are those damn Injuns doing with the gold in them hills?" led to years of conquest, arbitrary redrawing of borders to suit colonial powers, and exploitation. When British ships sat off the coast of China shelling the coastal fortifications until the country would agree to let in the opium trade, is it little surprise that the Chinese hated them? And then after years of being screwed with these nations and peoples are looked down as poor lazy stupid jerks who just can't seem to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". Of course terrorism and the murder of innocents is wrong, but it's unrealistic to expect wealthy powerful nations to get away with it for generations and then be able to say "Oh well, we've got ours, lets all be at peace now" without allowing for some means to raise up that which would have existed but for their own meddling. |
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2004-04-29, 01:07 | Link #454 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Well, I figure that that don't need to justify the pro space faction. Most people are already going to be against terrorism to start with, so I don't think the anime creators need to play up sympathy for the status quo.
Space exploration would largely be irrelevant to problems in 3rd world countries anyway. Unless leading countries took the ~1% for foreign aid and shifted it to space exploration (making it like 1.5%). But most of the players in space seem to have corporate backing, so government was less of an issue. I liked that guy's spacesuit though. Seems like Technora could also replace their Fishbones if they went with that design. |
2004-04-29, 01:37 | Link #455 | ||
冤枉的小狗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: South East Asia
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But if you want to know what kind of balanced view the manga brought compared to the extremes of the anime, read on! Spoiler for manga's balance:
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2004-04-29, 02:24 | Link #456 | ||||||
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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You got to give credit to an anime like PlanetES to have us debating so much about such an minor issue.
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Oh well I notice some miscommunication, you thought I was talking today's world situation. While infact I was talking about the world in PlanetES. I should have made that point more clear. My apologies for that. Quote:
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2004-04-29, 09:51 | Link #457 | ||
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2004-04-29, 09:59 | Link #458 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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I dunno - is it so hard to understand? And dont give me crap about "all human lifes are equal" - so, i repeat, your dad's (or sister's or whatever) life has the same importance to you than the life of some complete stranger? I think answer is quite clear - no. The same goes to the situation described above. And i really hope that this will be my last post on this topic... Just stop being hypocritical, ok? |
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2004-04-29, 10:16 | Link #459 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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And btw, each time you go to supermarket and buy some food - do you think about children in Africa who die from hunger? No? Most likely you dont give a <beep> about them. All i ask is to stop this hypocrisy. Like i'm all high and mighty and all people's lifes are equally worth and so on and so on. Bleh, sure. Until you have to choose. |
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2004-04-29, 10:52 | Link #460 | |
original vampire
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: southeast asia
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The thing is, you have to stop branding people based on where they came from. Although nation mentality does exist, it's not fair to think that everyone in that country thinks that way too. I don't think that this is too different from racism. Truthfully though, you're probably right about the value of life. My life is worth much more than yours to me. But don't you ever stop to think how great it'll be if more people think that all lifes are equal? Naive, perhaps, but you know, that'll be the day when humanity ever become "civilized". EDIT: and Yebyosh, the manga sounds amazing. More complex in both storyline and themes. Now if I can ever get my hand on a copy... |
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