Hyouka - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Kanon]

I enjoyed the first half, but the second was quite boring. I couldn't bring myself to care about this mystery.

Houtarou is slowly changing and this episode did a good job showcasing that. He's actually pretty normal now, I'd say.

[Sakanaka Shouko]

I thought this episode was weak. Maybe it's because the festival arc was amazing and an average level episode like this may look boring compared to the prior episodes...

Well, I hope the next episode is better.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I enjoyed the first half, but the second was quite boring. I couldn't bring myself to care about this mystery.

Totally the opposite for me. I found the first half boring the second half great.

But like you said it did well to show Hotarou's change. I especially liked the end where as soon as he says he owes Chitanda, we see the traffic light go green indicating that he's moving forward now. That was one subtle touch of class.

[Blaat]

One episode in and I'm already missing the school festival. And when will Chitanda learn to respect other people's personal space? ;P

Anyway like Kanon I liked the first half, didn't like the second half I guess the lack of Satoshi and Inaba has something to do with it.

[Guardian Enzo]

Kanya Festa probably is a mixed blessing - it shattered any previous notions of what Hyouka could be, and set the bar impossibly high. It's hard to see how the show is going to live up to that in the last few eps, though that doesn't mean I'm not anxious to see it try.

[Anh_Minh]

I loved seeing Mayaka drop the hostility and treat Houtarou like he was very sick...

[ilovejavachip]

I don't get what Oreki meant when he thought, "It looks like Chitanda's learning how to deal with Satoshi, too." Can someone please explain?

[Anh_Minh]

Satoshi likes to tell jokes, and she used to always take them seriously.

[ilovejavachip]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Satoshi likes to tell jokes, and she used to always take them seriously.

Oh so she wasn't taking his joke seriously then? I couldn't tell haha.

[Triple_R]

Hyouka is consistently at least "good". And this episode is one of the ones that demonstrates that.

It's a nice, little vignette that adds some subtle touches to Oreki and Chitanda's characters, as well as the relationship dynamics between them. And KyoAni's artistic flare and attention to detail certainly adds a great deal of cool/pleasant ambiance to the whole affair.

That being said, these vignettes do somewhat pale in comparison to most of the arc-based episodes as the arc-based episodes tend to do more with more characters than what the one episode stand-alone vignettes do. And that's where we see Hyouka gravitate back and forth between "good" and "great". I know that a lot of people hate the word "filler", but that's honestly how these vignettes come across to me - As good filler. Nothing wrong with that, of course, as an unbroken series of arcs could perhaps seem too heavy over times. On the whole, these "filler" episodes are probably needed to let the characters breath a bit.

And I see some changes in the breaths these characters take. Much like what GMT and other people have said on this thread, I think that the relationship dynamics between Oreki and Chitanda have become juxtaposed. Initially, he was a bit mystified by her, I think. "Infatuated" is too strong a word, but it's of the same nature of that but of a lesser degree. You could say that he found her charming and disarming and intriguing. He was interested in her.

Now, I think that Oreki has kind of grown accustomed to Chitanda's presence in his life, and she's now simply part of his life rather than a wondrous novelty that sweeps him off his feet. Stability has returned in Oreki's heart, you could say.

On the flip-side, I think that Chitanda's esteem for Oreki just keeps growing and growing. At this point, I definitely think she's romantically interested in him.

I definitely think that Chitanda and Oreki are more interesting as a pair than either are when taken individually. There's a certain compelling contrast between them, an odd flow to their relationship, that really highlights the strengths and peculiarities of both characters.

After an arc that really brought Mayaka and Satoshi to the fore and had their characters shine, it was probably good to be reminded of the strengths of Chitanda and Oreki's friendship once more.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I enjoyed the first half, but the second was quite boring. I couldn't bring myself to care about this mystery.

Houtarou is slowly changing and this episode did a good job showcasing that. He's actually pretty normal now, I'd say.

Indeed. I do wonder if this episode caused a certain friendly person to start warming up to a certain grumpy character.

[Master_Yoma]

If Houtarou dose some thing every one tells him to go home and lay down

[GMT]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I loved seeing Mayaka drop the hostility and treat Houtarou like he was very sick...

Her tone suggested one thing, but her expression seemed to say another. It struck me as less an expression of genuine "ZOMG, something is wrong!" concern and more of an expression of "Dude, what are you smoking? Try smoking less of it. Or more. Whatever."

[GalacticPulsar]

Originally Posted by Hyper

I wasn't sure what their last conversation means, but I like your take on it the best. It seems he is more concerned about misunderstanding people than solving a mystery wrong. Maybe it is Eru's influent having an effect on him.

Decent episode of Hyouka this week.
FlareKnight's interpretation of the conversation between Houtarou and Chitanda is sound.
In addition, my take on the conversation is that Houtarou showed a particular noble side of him(as I gathered from Chitanda's words). The puzzling thing is why did Houtarou consider Ogi as being insensitive in the sense that "he has no idea how other people are feeling"? How does that tie in to what houtarou said about "Ogi couldn't just say he loved helicopters that easily"? Is Ogi being insensitive to others because he told a half assed truth when he said he liked helicopters? Are people really offended by the fact that Ogi was not being truthful since he did not like all helicopters? Are people’s feelings hurt that much from misinterpreting Ogi’s statement and being wrong(namely Houtarou)? Insensitive would be too strong a word. If Ogi was really happy solely because the helicopter went to rescue the mountaineers who were caught up in the middle of a torrential storm,then why wouldn't he be justified in saying he loved helicopters?
A person who was really concerned over the safety of the mountaineers caught up in the storm would be upset and angry that the helicopters couldn’t have flown in the storm to rescue the mountaineers. Ogi was most likely relieved that the helicopters could have flown in the next day to rescue the mountaineers but more importantly, it is likely that Ogi was waiting for confirmation that the weather was clear again so that he can embark on his mountain hiking again as he loves mountain hiking. According to the "commie fansubs"of hyouka , the rescue helicopters arrived too late to save the 2 mountaineers who perished in the harsh climate of the mountain.
Thus Ogi’s words could be taken as severely insensitive to the grieving families because they probably resented the delayed helicopter rescue operation. Hence Ogi’s apparent negative impression on Houtarou( who claims he is glad that he is now in high school and no longer has to come across his middle school English teacher, Ogi , who he thinks is either insensitive or just plain self centered).
Now this interpretation may be all off but some of the things Houtarou says seem really ambiguous and has a lot of subtext. In which case FlareKnight's interpretation would then imply Houtarou is very concerned with being right and interpreting others correctly to the point he calls Ogi insensitive for being overly ecstatic and saying at the spur of the moment that he loves helicopters(even though he didn't mean in a general sense) because the helicopters are able to rescue his mountaineer friends ( has it even . If that is so, then Houtarou is a bit hard on Ogi. What Ogi said wasn't particularly insensitive unless viewed in a certain context.
If the fansubs are anything to go by, Oreki certainly has a bad choice of words and is actually a decently arrogant person( there will still be users on here who deny this though lol). Nevertheless, Oreki is the most compelling character for me and the sole reason I watch Hyouka.

[Snuffle]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I definitely think that Chitanda and Oreki are more interesting as a pair than either are when taken individually. There's a certain compelling contrast between them, an odd flow to their relationship, that really highlights the strengths and peculiarities of both characters.

This is what I really liked about this episode. Finally we're seeing some progress with their relationship. I'm not expecting much but, I'm hoping at least for a clear indication that these two will hit it off.

[Gohan78]

Originally Posted by GalacticPulsar

The puzzling thing is why did Houtarou consider Ogi as being insensitive in the sense that "he has no idea how other people are feeling"?

I think it is a mistranslation by Commie... I watched the Mazui subs and there was no mention of Ogi being insensitive. It was Houtaro who was insensitive when he dismissed Ogi's words simply as the words of a helicopter lover.

[Qilin]

Looks like Hyouka is back to doing what it does best, which is using mystery as device to develop its characters. I mean, I understand how the mystery could be seen as boring out of context, but here it was delivered in such a manner that expressed just how much Houtarou has developed throughout the series. It helped that the music and ambiance was up to par as usual.

Still, it really made me wonder how people form images of other people solely based on their limited interactions with them. It's a simple dilemma, but we have to be careful when it comes to forming conclusions just from superficial impressions. We might end up unfairly representing them. The first major arc tackled a similar theme, I believe.

Hm. On another note, I really have to question why people bother labeling episodes as "filler" when it lacks any overarching plot to begin with.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

I think it is a mistranslation by Commie... I watched the Mazui subs and there was no mention of Ogi being insensitive. It was Houtaro who was insensitive when he dismissed Ogi's words simply as the words of a helicopter lover.

That's kind of how I read it. Seemed like Houtarou was pushing the claim of being insensitive inward. Pretty much lining up with how I saw the mistakes or misreads from Houtarou having developed his character to this point. Even though he or any of the Classics Club may never meet Ogi again he didn't want to leave this false image of him out there. He made that claim about Ogi liking helicopters and thus had to take responsibility for that. Even though it doesn't really matter that's who Houtarou is at this point.

[NCP]

Originally Posted by GalacticPulsar

-snip-

Unfortunately, it seems like you spent quite a few lines trying to make sense of what is simply a pretty badly botched translation job. I took a look at Commie's subs and the gist of their interpretation of that final conversation is "Houtaro wanted to confirm his theory about Ogi (that he liked helicopters) because if that theory was correct it would mean Ogi was being insensitive to some people. Also, if that theory were correct and Ogi was really that insensitive, Houtaro and Chitanda would have to be careful of him." Doesn't that sound a bit ridiculous? For what possible reason could Ogi's supposed insensitivity be cause for Houtaro and Chitanda to take care? Who exactly Ogi was being insensitive to isn't even made clear in the subs and only adds to the confusion.

As someone else stated, Mazui's subs are much more accurate. When Houtaro was referring to insensitivity, he was referring to himself. The gist of that final conversation is much closer to this. "Houtaro wanted to reconcile his impression of Ogi (that he liked helicopters) with Satoshi's and Ibara's (that Ogi did not). Houtaro states that if his impression were true, he would have to be careful of making assumptions about Ogi's character. He would have to be careful of making those assumptions because it would be insensitive to Ogi. After all, Houtaro does not know exactly what Ogi is feeling."

To state things a different way, imagine this situation. A woman sees a girl holding a stuffed bear. The woman makes an assumption that the girl must like stuffed bears. In reality, the girl does not particularly like stuffed bears, but carries hers around because it was a final gift from her dying mother. That woman is being insensitive to the girl because she is making assumptions about said girl without actually knowing anything about her.

This is what Houtaro is trying to be careful of. He decides to investigate his theory because he wants to gain insight into why Ogi might like helicopters. In doing so, he can avoid being insensitive to Ogi by attempting to understand Ogi's feelings and thus actually substantiating his impression.

[GalacticPulsar]

Originally Posted by NCP

Unfortunately, it seems like you spent quite a few lines trying to make sense of what is simply a pretty badly botched translation job. I took a look at Commie's subs and the gist of their interpretation of that final conversation is "Houtaro wanted to confirm his theory about Ogi (that he liked helicopters) because if that theory was correct it would mean Ogi was being insensitive to some people. Also, if that theory were correct and Ogi was really that insensitive, Houtaro and Chitanda would have to be careful of him." Doesn't that sound a bit ridiculous? For what possible reason could Ogi's supposed insensitivity be cause for Houtaro and Chitanda to take care? Who exactly Ogi was being insensitive to isn't even made clear in the subs and only adds to the confusion.

As someone else stated, Mazui's subs are much more accurate. When Houtaro was referring to insensitivity, he was referring to himself. The gist of that final conversation is much closer to this. "Houtaro wanted to reconcile his impression of Ogi (that he liked helicopters) with Satoshi's and Ibara's (that Ogi did not). Houtaro states that if his impression were true, he would have to be careful of making assumptions about Ogi's character. He would have to be careful of making those assumptions because it would be insensitive to Ogi. After all, Houtaro does not know exactly what Ogi is feeling."

This is what Houtaro is trying to be careful of. He decides to investigate his theory because he wants to gain insight into why Ogi might like helicopters. In doing so, he can avoid being insensitive to Ogi by attempting to understand Ogi's feelings and thus actually substantiating his impression.

The whole confusion lies in the commie subs which states Ogi was the one being insensitive not Oreki. That is the where it gets confusing to understand. If Oreki was the one being insensitive then it is more understandable.