Unless all of the adults do it together the only people who could do the second one are Rosa and Nanjo.
I'd need to recheck the timing of their death being declared in red, but Shannon could also do several of the murders. They leave her for dead, go along the chain of keys, she follows, kills everyone, and later when she returns to the parlor, gets killed by someone else. That someone else would only need to lag behind the rest of the adults for a short time when they were leaving for the guesthouse.
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"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
— Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"
I'd need to recheck the timing of their death being declared in red, but Shannon could also do several of the murders. They leave her for dead, go along the chain of keys, she follows, kills everyone, and later when she returns to the parlor, gets killed by someone else. That someone else would only need to lag behind the rest of the adults for a short time when they were leaving for the guesthouse.
The problem with that is, we were never given any hint one of the adults stayed behind anywhere. For what we were told it seemed they traveled in a group, expect Rosa who went to check on the kids.
I'd need to recheck the timing of their death being declared in red, but Shannon could also do several of the murders. They leave her for dead, go along the chain of keys, she follows, kills everyone, and later when she returns to the parlor, gets killed by someone else. That someone else would only need to lag behind the rest of the adults for a short time when they were leaving for the guesthouse.
They were declared dead during the reconstruction of the closed rooms when Battler is holed up with everyone. So the death declaration can be up to that moment.
Rudolf is the first person to enter parlor since he broke the window if that means anything.
They were declared dead during the reconstruction of the closed rooms when Battler is holed up with everyone. So the death declaration can be up to that moment.
Rudolf is the first person to enter parlor since he broke the window if that means anything.
Again... So Rudolf has a decent chance to kill both Rosa and Shannon... if it wasn't for the fact that his stake is in his head, I would consider him maybe killing Nanjo.
The problem with that is, we were never given any hint one of the adults stayed behind anywhere. For what we were told it seemed they traveled in a group, expect Rosa who went to check on the kids.
And if the remember right the red is right after they find everyone, and before the scene in the guesthouse.
The red is positioned between when they leave (07:00) and when they return (09:00). It's hard to tell when exactly it happens but considering that the actual scenes of following down the chain are never shown, and are instead related in Virgilia's narration, there can be up to an hour gap between being found 'dead' and being killed. Virgilia's narration is not in red and actually very vague, careful to neither state nor deny anyone travelled as a group. Notice that at some point along the way they have to go wherever Kinzo kept his guns, which are clearly not in any of the rooms on the chain.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
— Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"
The red is positioned between when they leave (07:00) and when they return (09:00). It's hard to tell when exactly it happens but considering that the actual scenes of following down the chain are never shown, and are instead related in Virgilia's narration, there can be up to an hour gap between being found 'dead' and being killed. Virgilia's narration is not in red and actually very vague, careful to neither state nor deny anyone travelled as a group. Notice that at some point along the way they have to go wherever Kinzo kept his guns, which are clearly not in any of the rooms on the chain.
I noticed that Virgilia is so vauge. It is possible that they didn't even find 6 bodies. One of the rooms they might not have even be able to get into. Say... the Chapel, if the killer is inside say Kanon, and he gets out because of of what Oliver proposed. The adults may have just thought he was dead because of what they already saw and the magic circle. Kanon leaves and starts walking around with the fake bloodstain on his chest. One of the adults sees him a shots him thinking he might have killed the others.
Hi everyone. I personally have a theory that could possibly resolve the whole Umineko game and I came here to let you read it and have your opinions. It may be completely wrong or contain something true and I'd like to have your help to find some mistake or correct it if I said something wrong. I hope you all will read it and share your opinions with me ^^ Before posting here I have to say two things: (1) I haven’t read Episode 6 and I created this theory by just reading episodes from 1 to 5, so I don’t know whether it conflicts with Episode 6 or not xD However, it contains very little and few spoilers for Episode 6, who a friend of mine told me about, but I don't know whether I have to put the Wall of Text in spoiler or not, so I alert you before xD (2) the part about the exchange of Shannon with Beatrice is not mine, I read it somewhere xD All the rest is thought up by myself! xD Here it is:
Spoiler for Wall of Text @_@:
I'll start with the premises. The very first premise is that none of the murders are committed with magic, neither the magic of Beatrice exists in the real world and the true culprit is a human Beatrice. It is almost confirmed that a human Beatrice exists on the island in 1986, since there are many evidences of this: in Turn (2nd Episode) many people (Maria, Rosa, Kyrie and Genji) give testimony of having seen Beatrice, and Maria says to Rosa that she has met Beatrice a lot of time in the previous family conferences, while in Alliance (4th Episode) Battler, who is the detective of the first four games and has an OBJECTIVE point of view, clearly sees a human Beatrice on the island. Also, I personally think that Maria must have learned all the magic and scribbles somewhere, she couldn't just have invented everything xDDDD And there is also the fact that Maria says Beatrice gave her the letter and the umbrella.
I'll talk about this Beato and her life later, now I'll continue with the premises.
Then, it is also clear that the murderer (humanBeatrice) wants the people on the island (to be precise, Battler, but I'll explain it later why) to believe in magic. It is clear from the very beginning: the magic circles, the closed room (why building up closed rooms in the very first place?), the letters, the murders following the epitaph, etc., but there are also more proves that you will understand continuing to read later.
That’s not all, the murderer wants to create two further illusions: the illusion of Kinzo and the Illusion of Kanon/Shannon. As it regards the Illusion of Kinzo I will explain it when I'll talk about Alliance and for now I will concentrate on the illusion of Kanon.
Imho Kanon (or sometimes Shannon, as in the 4th Episode) is killed before the siblings arrive in the island and Shannon (or in the 4th game Kanon) has to pretend to be Kanon (in the 4th game Shannon). Why? The very first reason is that Battler, the detective, NEVER sees them together, not even once. Then, in Alliance, even though Kyrie's group says that Kanon is there (remember they also say that Kinzo appeared at the conference and killed everyone summoning weird demons and then they had fallen in “pitfalls”), the only corpse missing when Battler does his investigation is - unbelievable - Kanon. And that's not all: in Turn Beatrice says in red that Kanon is dead at the time of the 2nd twilight, but Shannon, Gohda and Genji say he appeared, but he was not him, but he was him when he appeared, but he wasn't him when he killed Nanjo and Kumasawa (a bit confused?). However, we don't have to doubt the red: if they say something that goes against the red that means it is a lie, so we have to ask ourselves "why were they lying?" My answer is “to create the illusion of Kanon in the metaworld” (in the real world they do not know that Kanon is dead). To know why they would do something like that, sorry but you have to wait and read, I cannot explain everything together or else it would just be more confusing xD But that’s not all, there is also a red of Lambda that is an hint which leads to this theory and also the very existence of Zepar and Furfur is an evidence of that. Why putting a trap in Umineko? I don’t think it is accidental, try to think about it: Zepar and Furfur are clearly the metarepresentation of Shannon and Kanon. They should be, in fact, of different sex, just as Shannon and Kanon (and in fact they are), but even considering that, they both appear to us as a girl. Why? Simple, because when we see Shannon or Kanon they are always the same person). There are also other hints, but I prefer to talk about them when I talk about the single Episodes.
However, now that I finished talking about the premises, I can finally speak of Beato, starting from the very beginning:
in the war Kinzo had met a very rich woman he fell in love with (in the 1st arc it is said that something like that could be possible). Also this woman felt in love with Kinzo and decided to fund him with one gold ingot (which is the one who Krauss will later found) that he could use it as a collateral. Then he became very rich so that he owned a whole island. In his own island, he built up his mansion and also a secret mansion, the Kuwadorian (why building a secret mansion without the presence of a lover? xD), where this woman went to live in 1946 (plus or less). After few years (4-5) this woman began to tire herself of Kinzo, but she was confined there by him and was not allowed to escape, so she committed suicide. After dying, all the gold which was hers and which she kept in her mansion, passed to Kinzo and this is the famous "gold of the witch". But this woman (who I'll call grandma!Beatrice from now), before dying (about 1962), has given birth to a child (remember Beatrice saying about her committing suicide and then Kinzo "trapping her soul in the body of a child"?), who is the girl who has been killed by Rosa. She lived in the Kuwadorian not having ever gone out and considered Kinzo, who frequently raped her, as a father and a friend. (She has lived as a bird in cage, it could even has seemed normal if Kinzo says that what he does is normal, have you ever read Boccaccio’s last novel of the third day? xD) However: then, before dying, also she gave birth to another child, who is the human Beatrice who commits the murders. She has lived under the cares of Kumasawa and other servants (remember the dream of metaBeatrice in the beginning of Banquet?), probably not in Rokkenjima. Kumasawa often brought Shannon with her and they were good friends. Six years ago (but maybe it even happened more than one time, like eight years ago, seven years ago and six years ago), on the days of the family conference, Beatrice asked Shannon whether she could disguise herself as her and meet her "family" for just once. Shannon accepted and the person who has gone to the family conference six years ago was Beatrice and not Shannon. Beatrice then felt in strong love with Battler, spending two whole days with him until the last moment, when he has promised "he would return on a white horse". She waited for a long time (she felt a love similar to Shion's for Satoshi), but Battler didn't come, even though she was waiting for him. She was desperate and she did not know what to do, when Lambdadelta appears. Lambdadelta in the Tanabata EXTRA Tip says that she would willingly grant whishes of humans, if only they are ready to give up everything for granting that wish and she could even realize the wish of a little girl who desires to become God (an allusion to Takano of Higurashi). Beatrice wanted to be with Battler and Lambda decided to grant her wish, but in one condition: she has to create a perfect gameboard (don’t know why she asked to Beato, maybe because Lambda understood that Rokkenjima had an “high potential” xD) where Beatrice could stay with Battler (the metabattle between Beato and Battler), and which Lambdadelta could use to make Bernkastel surrender. The more the gameboard is perfect, less will be the chances of Battler to resolve and win. Indeed the same proposal will be done by Lambdadelta also to Ange (if you support me, you will be able to be with Battler forever), isn’t that weird? Then Lambdadelta gives her the rule she couldn't reveal her true identity, nor could tell Battler the real truth. A big hint of this pact between Lambda and Beato is given in Banquet Tea Party, when Lambdadelta speaks to Beatrice and said (1) she has allowed her to be a witch, (2) that she has tested her gameboard is perfect and (3) that Beatrice is nothing more than a temporary witch, who Lambdadelta could easily send to her previous piteous situation. I don’t think there could be any other deal between Beato and Lambda, other then the one I hypothesized... However Beatrice afterwards changes his purpose (or maybe it was never that from the beginning?) and she wants Battler to know the truth. In EP4 she couldn't bear this torture anymore and made so that Battler would hate her giving him the strenght to kill her, even though it was all an act, what she wanted the most was Battler to know the truth.
However, before the game starts and everything happens, Beatrice worked to create the perfect gameboard as Lambdadelta wanted. She put bombs in the island (remember that all the island is covered by a forest) and had all the servants by her side: Nanjo hadn't got any other relation to the island after Kinzo's death and he had a sick grandaughter, so it wasn't hard to buy him (remember the 100 milion given to the son of Nanjo? That were the money she had promised him, if only she hadn’t killed him xD). The same is for Gohda and Kumasawa-baa. For Genji is a bit different, he saw in Beato the new master to obey to, now that Kinzo was dead. The last one is Shannon, who could easily be blackmailed by saying "If you don't do as I say, I’ll kill George" and in fact she always dies before George, except for the 5th arc (but in the 5th arc there is the so called "Land of the Golden Witch", remember? I think I understood what it is about and I'll talk about it when I'll explain the 5th arc). There should also be Kanon, but she has killed him (probably the days before the conference), maybe because he rebelled or just for the number of the people xD Obviously Beato knows of the future metabattle with Battler, since that has been allowed by Lambda, and she does “prepares” everything in view of that. The so called “metaBeatrice” is the Beatrice of the first arc and – IMPORTANT - she can also communicate with the “pieceBeatrice”, as shown in a scene in the 4th arc, where metaBeatrice talks to pieceBeatrice. So is metaBeato that tells her what to do in all the Episodes what she should do and that explaines a lot of things. Ah, obviously she is the one putting the bombs in the mansion. Considering that there is a forest covering the whole island it is probable that after the explosion the fire spreads throughout the island and the only safe place is the place where there is the gold. Ah, Beatrice probably commits suicide before the explosion or maybe she dies with the explosion. She doesn’t mind “being killed”, since she does everything in view of the future metabattle. Ah, obviously the “sin” of Battler is not having kept his promise of returning on the following year.
But that’s not all: there is also another conspiration, the adults’ conspiration. But before talking about it I should say something about the 19 years ago boy: Natsuhi in the 5th arc says he is dead and that both the corpses of the old servant and of the baby were found. So I think there are no doubts about his death and even if he wasn’t dead, who could have possibly told him about her mother pushing him off the climb, if only Natsuhi knows about it? I think it is not possible for any 19 Years ago boy to exist, and now I turn over the chessboard (I always dreamt to say it **) and I’ll ask: who could have possibly known about a Natsuhi’s child 19 years ago? In that period Krauss was out and on the island there were only the servant, Kinzo, Natsuhi and another person: ROSA. She was still young and we know that she was on the island 20 years ago, so she probably was on the island and she knew of that child. And know let’s speak of the adults’ conspiration: all the adults not living on the island (Eva, Rudolph, Rosa, Hideyoshi and Kyrie) started to doubt Kinzo’s existence and wanted to make Krauss reveal the truth about it. So one of them proposed to create a “fake homicide” (remember Rudolph saying “I will probably die tonight” and Kyrie laughing at him?) to put Krauss and Natsuhi under pressure and make them reveal the truth (obviously this plan is a total fail, they are killed even before to do it... xD). And then Rosa remembered this thing about this 19 years ago boy and someone(probably Kyrie) could have proposed to fake the existence of this boy to put Natsuhi under pressure (between her and Krauss she is without any doubt the weaker one xD). And the FIRST call Natsuhi receive from the boy of 19 years ago, the one before the starting of the family conference, is probably all an act thought up by the siblings. And not only that: also the hands painted on Natsuhi’s door were all an act of the adults. The hands painted on the door was the hint that made me thought that: in Turn Natsuhi has been killed on the first twilight, but someone also did paint the hands on the door. What that means? Simple, that the murderer is not connected with the one who painted hands on Natsuhi’s door, because if the painted hands are a “warning” to Natsuhi, what is the meaning of doing that before killing her? Nothing at all. So, excluding the existence of another person, the 19 years ago boy, I just thought up this theory about the parents and I think it could be probable.
One last thing about Battler: he is the son of Kyrie, but has been entrusted to Asumu, while probably Kinzo took Asumu’s child and gave it to Natsuhi (I don’t think Kinzo would just take the first orphan he finds and give him to Natsuhi saying: “Bring up this orphan as my true heir!” xD), but he died. For some reason Kyrie couldn’t hold the child and had to hide her pregnancy (maybe because of her family, the Sumadera, that couldn’t accept an illegitimate child?). However, Asumu and Rudolph had married because of the Asumu’s child and Kyrie didn’t felt as put herself in the middle by saying “I also got a children by Rudolph!”, she understood it wouldn’t be fair. But she also couldn’t hold the child, so it gave it to an orphanage, but Kinzo somehow recovered it and gave it to Asumu. I know this part is a bit twisted, but with the information we have this is the only thing possible xD
Returning to Beatrice, Maria was one of her best pawn: Maria really believed in Beatrice’s magic and it is needed to make the people (Battler xD) believe in magic, since she really believed in it. Maria really met Beatrice every years on the island and everything, from the Mariage Sorciere to her being an apprentice is false xD Also the coming of Ange in the Mariage Sorciere can be interpreted that way: Maria proposed to the little Ange to enter in her alliance, but she, who understood they were all silly things, went out from the alliance and Maria went angry. In the novel it is clear that Maria’s magic has never existed (she believed that her magic to make candies rain from the sky has worked just because she found one candy on the way home xD). As it regards Ange on the endgame tips it is written that she has died in 1998, so probably she has never summoned the stakes in the reality, just because she believed that she had done that really has “happened”. That’s the same method she uses to summon Sakutaro in front of Maria, the power of believing. As it regards the picture of Beatrice and the epitath, Kinzo put it there to find an heir. For the picture, it was a commemoration to grandmaBeatrice who was death and was inspired to Beatrice (the murderer), since being the granddaughter she looked a lot like her. As it regards Maria’s letter, it is obviously Beato the one who writes it.
Now, let’s try to expose the truth in all the Episodes (in a quick way) following my theory... I personally don’t remember everything very well, so there could be some mistakes, if you find them, please tell me! There could also be other explanation, I now just give one of the possible ones. Ah, one things, I personally think that we can “trust” only what Battler sees (since he is detective and has an objective point of view in the episode 1-4, in fact he never sees magic) and the red, while all the rest could have been interpreted by the game master filter.
I Episode: Legend of the Golden Witch
I twilight: Beatrice with the help of other servants kills all the people who were in mansion and were not sleeping: Krauss, Gohda, Kyrie, Rudolph and Rosa and put their corpses in the storehouse. The corpse of Shannon is in reality Kanon’s corpse. Only Hideyoshi and Nanjo (who knows about it) see his corpse and I don’t think Hideyoshi spends too much time watching his face and body. There is also one evidence: Lambdadelta in the ??? of Alliance says, referring to this homicide: “the identities of all UNIDENTIFIED corpses are guaranteed”. Why she didn’t just say “All the identities are garanteed”? Simple, because she couldn’t say, because one of the “identified” corpse (unidentified = corpses with the whole face smashed, identified = corpses with half of the face smashed, as Beato says in Alliance) is not garanteed, since the one who should be Shannon, is in fact Kanon’s body disguised as Shannon’s.
II twilight: Beatrice could have just hidden herself in Eva and Hideyoshi’s room and then when they entered she has come out and kill them and then she hid herself again. (Hidden place does not refer to armchair and stuff like that and no one has checked if anyone was hiding there.) Then Shannon cut the chain and let her go away. Ah, I think that probably Beatrice has a gun which can shoot the demon stake, I don’t think it would be hard to create one.
IV-IX Twilight: Beatrice killed Shannon (who were thought to be Kanon) and then escaped (Beato said in red “ In short, no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon!” since Kanon was already dead a long ago and no one could kill a dead person xD On the contrary, the one who was being killed was Shanon! In fact Beato said that this is one of her best murder XD) Then she went to the parlor where she killed Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji and ordered Maria (who thinks everyone will resurrect ç_ç) to sing a song. Then she killed Natsuhi and hid the letter (or else the letter was maybe saying something about the 19 years ago boy and that could be the motivation they did not find it, since Natsuhi hid it)
II Episode: Turn of the Golden Witch
Beatrice appears in front of Maria and Rosa and gives the letter with the key (which she used before to unlock the chapel) to Maria and the other letter to Rosa.
After the dinner, the letter, etc., probably late after midnight, Beatrice appears in front of the siblings who were discussing and bring them to the chapel, where she says she has something to show them. Probably, before going to the chapel, Beatrice tells Rosa to take the Maria’s letter without opening it and without waking her up and in this moment Rudolph or Kyrie did the scribbles on Natsuhi’s door.
I twilight (and also the explaining of the fantasy scene where everyone acknowledge Beatrice as a witch): After having brought them in the chapel, where there are all the halloween decoration (or maybe she put them afterwards), she shows them the gold ingot and explains them that she is an heir and has all the gold. They acknowledge she as an heir (because she knows the location of the gold), but soon she kills them with a gun. The only one who does not get killed is Rosa and Beatrice proposes her a pact (further down I also wrote why I think this): she has to kill other 7 people, but in exchange of some favours and her silence, Beatrice will give her the chance to choose who not to kill (and she obviously choose Rosa and Maria) and will give her part of the gold (100 milion yen as for everybody?) when they will meet again tomorrow at 24:00 in the chapel, as Beato says. She also says to Rosa “don’t try to do anything suspicious if you want me to follow the pact I’ve done with you, I have a lot of allies in the mansion” or something like that and that’s why she does not say anything and has the obsession for the “Wolves and Sheep puzzle”, but also the motivation because of she took the gun with her. The motivation I think of this are the following: (1st) in the chapel in the fantasy scene also Rosa appears, but she is the ONLY one who does not die, don’t you find it weird? and (2nd) in the end of the Episode there are Rosa and Maria who doesn’t want to go out from the parlor, but notwithstanding, we find them in the chapel exactly at 23:59 with Rosa screaming: “Beatriceeeee? Where are youuuu? Maria?!? Do you know where Beatrice is?!?”, isn’t this a clear proof that Rosa has a pact with Beato?. (3rd) We hear her lying about the existence of Kinzo (when she says she has gone to take Kinzo’s gun. I did not understand if she claim to have really seen Kinzo, however), (4th) the sentence of Beatrice: “show me what will you do, dance for me, Rosa!” or something like that and also other things I don’t remember now @_@
However, after Beatrice killed them, Rosa opened Maria’s letter (it is already 5th Oct and this does not conflict with “Starting when Maria's key was received, and until the instant Rosa unsealed it the next day, it passed through no one's hands!!”), closed the chapel and Beatrice put again the wax with the ring she has.
II Twilight: There are many people who could have killed them, it’s not difficult at all to explain Jessica closed room.
IV-V-VI Twilight: Beatrice killed them in Natsuhi’s room and then hid until Rosa and Battler opened the door. And went out, after not having done any inspection at all.
VII-VIII Twilight: metaBeatrice said that Kanon was dead in red and said to humanBeatrice to oblige the servants to lie about Kanon and Nanjo and Kumasawa. Beatrice called Nanjo and Kumasawa out and then she killed them, then she appears in front of Shannon, Gohda and Genji and ordered them to lie about Kanon and to say that the corpses where in the servant’s room. As it regards the letter, it could have been possible for Rosa to put it there or also for Maria. And that’s not all, if the servant’s room had a window Beatrice could have taken the key relative to the parlor, put the letter there and the close the parlor without any problems at all.
IX Twilight: Battler surrenders to the witch and believes in his existence, so he loses his role as the detective (he has not an objective point of view, that’s way he could not be the detective anymore) and that’s why he sees Kinzo alive in the study and the golden Butterfly. Meanwhile Rosa and Maria had gone to the chapel (we don’t know why, but probably for the motivation I said before) at 24 o’clock, but suddenly the explosion begins. That’s why the game master interpretation is that they sees golden butterflies following them, the explosions! And that’s why Rosa says “we have to escape from this island, here there is nothing but death! Let’s reach the sea and then swim, swim, swim”.
Episode III: Banquet of the Golden Witch
I Twilight: metaBeatrice now decided to kill all of the servants. This murder could be easily explained if Nanjo has a pass-par-tout and faint to have found it in the pocket of one of the dead servants.
II Twilight: Eva is scared of Rosa knowing about the gold and her greed is overcome by her greed and kills both Rosa and Maria. An evidence of this is that they have no stakes”. Hideyoshi decided to cover her and that’s why Kyrie, after having found the cigarette, decided to isolate him and to interrogate him.
IV-V-VI-VII-VIII-IX: Beatrice killed Rudolph, Kyrie and Hideyoshi in the mansion.
George is probably jumped from the guesthouse to see Shannon’s face and Natsuhi and Krauss saw him, so they’ve gone out and followed him. Afterwards, Nanjo, as Beatrice’s accomplice, closed the door and the windows from the inside. Then Beatrice kills Nanjo and Eva kills Battler, saying she is the culprit, maybe because of her greed and her guilt-feelings. Afterwards Jessica dies because of the explosion while Eva survives hiding in the place where the gold is.
I could also explain this arc with a theory that puts Eva as the culprit, but I don’t personally like it, even though it is more likely...
Episode IV: Alliance of the Golden Witch
Ok, for this Episode I will do an unique speech, without explaining all singles twilight by themselves. Firstly, this whole Episode is completely a farce, planned by metaBeato and there are various hint of it. Of the people in the Kyrie’s group they all says that Kinzo has appeared (impossible, then a lie), he has killed six people with magic summoning weird demons (more impossible xD another lie) and that Shannon is with them (another lie, probably). In other words they acknowledge all the three illusions created by Beatrice. But first of all, why are they lying? The only answer I could give is “because they were obliged to”, I don’t think there could be other possibilities. And supporting my theory there are also other oddities: we find all the corpses of the people in Kuwadorian unless Kanon’s (or maybe the missing one is Shannon's? It could also be) and it couldn’t be a coincidence anymore: the corpse wasn’t there because Shannon has never been with them in the very first place. Also, when the six people are killed (wolves and sheep puzzle, the servant and Beatrice had a gun and were in an higher number) the only ones who were able to escape were Gohda and KUMASAWA. KUMASAWA. Don’t you think is weird she had been able to escape, while Kyrie had been not? I think Beatrice let Gohda and Kumasawa escape for telling the children the “truth” of what happened in the mansion. And after a while she also imprisoned Kyrie and Krauss (wolves and sheep puzzle, Krauss and Kyrie vs Beato with the gun, Nanjo and Shannon) and obliged them to say what she has stated about Kinzo, Shannon/Kanon, magic, etc. and they don’t refuse, because I would personally don’t refuse to say “someone appeared and kill all of us with magic!” if refusing I means being killed... xD Even Kyrie’s last words are fake and the same goes for Jessica (who was blackmailed with Krauss’ life probably). As it regards the murders, all the homicides can be explained with Beatrice as the culprit and the servants as the accomplices.
Episode V: End of the Golden Witch
First I’d like to try to explain what “The Land of the Golden Witch” is in my opinion. IMHO the whole Episode V is “Land of the Golden Witch”: in the previous arc there was Battler as the detective and so we could have trusted both what he sees and the red truth. However, in this arc the detective was Erika, but I think (and I’ve been told that in Episode 6 it has been confirmed, even though I’m not sure) she has never reached the island, or better, she has reached the island as a corpse, so she is nothing more than “The illusion of the Detective”. Then in Episode 5 there is no one as the detective (it should be Erika but she is not on the island or she is a corpse) and so there is not an objective point of view and that means that the whole Episode is “Land of the Golden Witch” or, to put it better, the whole Episode is put before the interpretation of the game master, as it was in the previous game for the scenes Battler did not see directly. And this is also supported by the fact that there are some scenes with Erika that sounds like “fake”, fantasy, even though she should have an objective point of view, such as when she say “I have the authority of the detective, allow me to see the corpses!” and everyone stand back to let her see the corpses and so on. So personally I think that trying to explain Episode V is quite difficult, since we don’t have enough information, we could create a theory setting almost everyone as the culprit, as also Battler did, setting himself as the culprit. The calls from the 19 years ago boy I think they are all fake (except for the one that happened before the conference)... If it is as I said, this “Land of the Golden Witch” is sure a dirty trick! xD
I haven’t read Episode 6, so if anyone is able to tell me if it could explain also that, it would be a favour! Thank you very much for reading it all XD
(Ah, as it regards the Golden Truth I have a theory but it is not complete, when I’ll have the ideas clearer I’ll also tell what I think about it if you’re interested)
Last edited by Linkin Battler; 2010-05-20 at 21:46.
It is the all else. Anyone who was in the dinning room could be Erika, or one of those who went to the mansion with her at the same time. Because if Erika is just another name of the one of those people as long as she stays with that person. As long as there isn't a red which says Erika is not the the same room as them, Erika could be that person. Example. Erika could be Jessica. X Erika was in the lounge, Jessica was upstairs. That is not a real red, so discard it.
Well, all the things with Erika got me into :
"One of the 17 is claiming Erika's name"
To be sure that this isn't useless, I will make this Blue into
I am the visitor, the eighteenth human on Rokkenjima!!
Erika got into Rokkenjima, even if she was dead.
If Erika is already dead, there is no way that she could have put seal on the windows and doors. However, it has been said in red :
"As the detective, <Miss> Erika sealed all ENTRANCES." and
"Lady Erika's lookout in the lounge was perfect.
Therefore, one LIVING PERSON is claiming to be Erika, and red never said that The only person who can claim Erika's name is the person which corpse drifted by accident on Rokkenjima. So it was possible for everybody to claim Erika's name. And if "Erika" never existed and the seals too (except Eva's) These truth couldn't exist, because red said that "Erika" sealed the entrance, and those seal where perfect. So : IF ERIKA IS ALREADY DEAD, SOMEONE THAT IS ALSO CALLED ERIKA MUST BE THE ONE WHO MADE THOSE SEALS, AS THE EXISTENCE OF THOSE IS PROVED WITH THE RED.
To go further
From EP6 :
[Definition check. That "three people" refers to the number of bodies, correct? That means three bodies went in and out, right?] Of course. Three people, that is, three bodies, went in and out of the room. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people. Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people.
You could say that "It was just the corpse, Kanon and Battler could have carried her. But the term used here is "three people"
The problem here is that the term used it "three people" and not "three humans".
If you combine the first red in the post and "even if we welcome you, the number of people is seventeen.". It means that
Humans => Humans, but the details of being dead or alive is unknown and
People/person => Humans, but definitely alive
But there is Kinzo...If you look at it like that you can say that it is a proof for Shkanon (because Kinzo would count as a human), however Beatrice said
"Before now, I have proclaimed that no more than 18 humans exist on this island."
"I will lower that by one for Kinzo!!". So Kinzo isn't counted as a human any more.
So "X Person = 1 Corpse". So, to conclude, I GUESS I can claim with certainty that
One of the 17 is claiming to be Erika.
So now I will deal about the
"What is possible for X to claim Erika's name without disobey to the red? Like in the trial. And the theory of X = Erika will not break Knox's 8th.
(It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED!!)
But I guess I will be long and VERY difficult to do.
__________________________________________________ _______
Linkin Battler => I will read your theory later, but the way the wall of text is formatted don't make me want to read it, maybe adding some Blue and Red and SPACE would make it easier to read. But I doesn't mean that I can't read it, right ?
Shannon accepted and the person who has gone to the family conference six years ago was Beatrice and not Shannon. Beatrice then felt in strong love with Battler, spending two whole days with him until the last moment, when he has promised "he would return on a white horse". She waited for a whole year (she felt a love similar to Shion's for Satoshi), but Battler didn't come, even though she was waiting for him.
The sin I'm asking you to repeat is not between Beatrice and Battler.
The sin I'm asking you to repeat is not between Beatrice and Battler.
Beatrice is only a title, not her real name...! Six years ago whe was not Beatrice, she has gained this title after becoming a witch... Imho it is clear that the sin concerns something between them
(I should have written this in the WoT, but I forgot xD)
Last edited by Linkin Battler; 2010-05-20 at 14:53.
So now I will deal about the
"What is possible for X to claim Erika's name without disobey to the red? Like in the trial. And the theory of X = Erika will not break Knox's 8th.
(It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED!!)
But I guess I will be long and VERY difficult to do.
So whatever happens for someone to become Erika doesn't happen in eps 1-4 but happens in ep 5-6
And I thought it went like this.
"Nice to meet you, hello! I am Furudo Erika, a detective!! I may be an uninvited guest, but please welcome me!! I am the visitor, the eighteenth human on Rokkenjima!!"
"We're very sorry, but even if we welcome you, the number of people is seventeen."
So whatever happens for someone to become Erika doesn't happen in eps 1-4 but happens in ep 5-6
And I thought it went like this.
"Nice to meet you, hello! I am Furudo Erika, a detective!! I may be an uninvited guest, but please welcome me!! I am the visitor, the eighteenth human on Rokkenjima!!"
"We're very sorry, but even if we welcome you, the number of people is seventeen."
She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them.
However, the "why calling him/herself Erika" is dealing of the psychology of the people of Rokkenjima, and character development and foreshadowing could have been set in the previous EPs. I got this idea on the "What do you think, everyone?" Said by Krauss in EP1.
She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them.
However, the "why calling him/herself Erika" is dealing of the psychology of the people of Rokkenjima, and character development and foreshadowing could have been set in the previous EPs. I got this idea on the "What do you think, everyone?" Said by Krauss in EP1.
Or what about this. In eps1-4 Erika just washes up on shore dead. But by a miracle in ep5 and 6 she lives.
Or what about this. In eps1-4 Erika just washes up on shore dead. But by a miracle in ep5 and 6 she lives.
"She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them."
Can't you read ?
Hum...but...with the "Kinzo doesn't exist" red truth from Dlanor, I have doubts...because, he doesn't exist, and...well...the famous golden truth...
What about this then. nvm brain was being stupid at that time.
Quote:
"She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them."
Can't you read ?
Hum...but...with the "Kinzo doesn't exist" red truth from Dlanor, I have doubts...because, he doesn't exist, and...well...the famous golden truth...
Even though that stament was very very rude I will not comeback rude. The word exist means alive. If Erika is a corpse when she gets to the island she never existed. For something to exist it needs to be alive.
Imho Kanon is dead at the starting of all games and Shannon has to pretend to be Kanon. Why? The very first reason is that Battler, the detective, NEVER sees them together, not even once.
Unless you use the Kanon personality was turned off trick this is impossible. Also the detective not seeing something is not a reason for them to pretend it's a reason to be suspicious that they do.
episode 2
Kanon was killed in this room
They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon!
Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die.
In short, he was the 9th victim. (it's impossible for him to be the 9th victim in episode 4 and die at the start of all games)
Or are you in the ghost erika camp, that Erika isn't a real person, but just another name for someone else.
Even though that stament was very very rude I will not comeback rude. The word exist means alive. If Erika is a corpse when she gets to the island she never existed. For something to exist it needs to be alive.
it was rude, I acknowledge it. But damn! Ryu07 is just messing around with us.
For me, if Kinzo corpse exist, Kinzo exist, but he is dead. I hate when people are messing aroud too much with definition of a term.
So for Ryu07 'existing' means 'alive', and I don't like that.
Also, is there any red truth that says that Kyrie's group has even been in Kuwadorian ? and that they even get into the underground secret path ? This part is suspicious to me, maybe they were killed before going into Kuwadorian ?