Ore no Imouto - Light Novel & Manga Discussion Thread

[Vexx]

I'll just say that in the event of a Kyou-Kirino romantic finale, the Westermarck issue pretty much shatters "suspension of disbelief" for me at least. They were raised together so blood, non-blood, cousins, whatever puts the notion into "0.01%" territory. It would take far more than one volume to lay the groundwork for that to be believable.

I'm not against the *idea* (e.g. I found YnS fairly believable) but I'm saying it simply has not been established in the story other than as a comedic jibe.

[Sumeragi]

I dispute the Westermarck effect.


But anyway, I see the story as the Kousaka siblings getting over the issues they had between them which includes Kirino's "mutated" feelings due to Manami's interference. As I mentioned earlier, it was likely that Kirino's feelings for Kyousuke was more akin to puppy love that a girl or boy might have for their older sibling of parent, but Manami's way of getting in the way most likely stalled the natural development and led to the current situation.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Vexx

It would take far more than one volume to lay the groundwork for that to be believable.

I'm not against the *idea* (e.g. I found YnS fairly believable) but I'm saying it simply has not been established in the story other than as a comedic jibe.

Well, I guess it depends on how you define it. In terms of laying the foundation for their feelings, I think they have been doing this for many volumes now. I think it has gone past being a "comedic jibe" for a little while, despite the fact that they try to play coy. But if you mean in terms of laying the foundation for a romantic relationship that could actually resolve itself fully in the next volume, that's where I have to agree that it would be difficult. To me, this is more like the "resolution" than the "foundation". As you said before, if they did decide to go for some sort of Kirino ending, it would likely be rather vague and open-ended, almost more akin to a "live goes on" with a slight nod and a wink. And in fairness, that is one possible direction I could see this story going, even though it'll frustrate people. (Set the stage for a sequel! )

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

But anyway, I see the story as the Kousaka siblings getting over the issues they had between them which includes Kirino's "mutated" feelings due to Manami's interference. As I mentioned earlier, it was likely that Kirino's feelings for Kyousuke was more akin to puppy love that a girl or boy might have for their older sibling of parent, but Manami's way of getting in the way most likely stalled the natural development and led to the current situation.

I can agree with this in concept, but I would only add (to fit into your "issues which include" classification) that Kyousuke's feelings are also at issue now. Kirino may have had her childhood "crush" mutated because of what happened, but what's going on with Kyousuke seems to be more of a new development since their relationship was rekindled. At the very least we can say that he has certainly become quite the "siscon" over the course of the story (possibly didn't help that Kirino kept feeding him imouto-moe eroge ). So I think a resolution here has to include some sort of acknowledgement from both sides.


At the end of the day, I think it's pretty much guaranteed that the story will end with Kirino conveying her genuine gratitude/feelings somehow, and Kyousuke doing a title call. I'd bet on it.

[iCK]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'll just say that in the event of a Kyou-Kirino romantic finale, the Westermarck issue pretty much shatters "suspension of disbelief" for me at least. They were raised together so blood, non-blood, cousins, whatever puts the notion into "0.01%" territory. It would take far more than one volume to lay the groundwork for that to be believable.

I'm not against the *idea* (e.g. I found YnS fairly believable) but I'm saying it simply has not been established in the story other than as a comedic jibe.

Like relentlessflame said, the author has been building the groundwork for Kirino and Kyousuke to be an actual couple. Even though most if it seemed like a joke, there has been parts of the LN where they were perceived as an actual couple, even though they were only acting it out. An example would be the date they go on together in volume 7. Though the date they went on was a total trick just so Kirino can actually go on a date with Kyousuke in volume 7. Since no one was actually following them. The wedding dress skit in volume 9, Kyousuke was in a suit and Kirino was in a wedding dress.

I feel as though they are nonchalantly guiding us towards a KirinoxKyousuke Route.

[Syokool]

The same applies to Kuroneko x Kyousuke. Ayase and Manami have less chances to be the last girl here, but they aren't out of the game either.

I like Ayase a lot, and Kuroneko is a good choise also, but even if you read the actual books you can't guess what the ending will be

[hans_87]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

And in fairness, that is one possible direction I could see this story going, even though it'll frustrate people. (Set the stage for a sequel! )

So, I`m guessing you are talking about Manami ??

[GVN.Chaos]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'll just say that in the event of a Kyou-Kirino romantic finale, the Westermarck issue pretty much shatters "suspension of disbelief" for me at least. They were raised together so blood, non-blood, cousins, whatever puts the notion into "0.01%" territory. It would take far more than one volume to lay the groundwork for that to be believable.

I'm not against the *idea* (e.g. I found YnS fairly believable) but I'm saying it simply has not been established in the story other than as a comedic jibe.

Actually, the Westermarck effect is not really against them in this case. They were raised together, got a good foundation relationship, then when Kirino is about to understand "he is my brother, I can't married him" (on her own), their relationship shattered. So she never go to that part, and still (maybe) considered him as male. This is quite similar to Himenokoji Akiko's case.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos

Actually, the Westermarck effect is not really against them in this case. They were raised together, got a good foundation relationship, then when Kirino is about to understand "he is my brother, I can't married him" (on her own), their relationship shattered. So she never go to that part, and still (maybe) considered him as male. This is quite similar to Himenokoji Akiko's case.

Hmmm, yes, I was saying that because they were raised together, they are highly unlikely to see each other as sexually attracted - that is the effect that the Westermarck theory tries to describe. The effect is seen in multiple species. It isn't a 100% thing but it does put the onus on the author to provide a really good foundation for overriding the effect.

[leorodri100]

back to the oreimo thread after a long time...

after reading pages 55 to 72 of the thread i see that it really is like the psp second game, anyone who may have played it know the final battle in kirinos route,

note that im my analisys i will make use of all of the other media for oreimo, because i no longer believe they are distinct works

Spoiler:

first the psp second game had foreshadow for kanako development on voulme 2, it also had a ayase x kuroneko fight, than again, it did end with the manami vs kirino battle, i've noticed that she uses the same sentance in the novel as in the game about its not being normal to love your brother and all that stuff you probably is tired of reading about
but, in the psp game she also declares she eill not accept them and at a certain point she tells kyosuke

"kyou-chan, you know that this is not normal don't you? kirino-chan is your sister you know? you can never be happy together"

"kirino-chan that's your brther you can't even marry don't you remember what i've said before?"

wich kyousuke responds by actually questioning his intention and thinks about following manami

to that kirino declares, "you will do it all again...?"


now for the animated commentaries

since episode 1 of the animated commentaries kyousuke personality differs from his "normal" self

at that time i found it extremelly hillarious but now i do see some connection with the novel

the commentaries also had some foreshadow for the "enraged manami" wich kyouske feared the most

it also had foreshadow for the kanako manami relationship

when kanoko sees manami she calls her "master"

to wich kyouske responds with "oioi...you guys are not suppose to know each other yet!"

"oh right...it did not happen in the anime yet"

"not even in the novel!!"

at the time the second game haven't even been annouced

now for the novel...i'm not surprised with manami...i feared her since the psp game
like said before, tis always the quite ones
but i'm curious about the incident 3 years ago that made kyouske a shadow of his former self
not surprised with kanako siding with manami either...

i remember reading chapter 3 of volume 10 and wehn i saw kanako there i was grinning at how well planned the whole franchise was about the "i will do something ever better than eroge for you" by kirino's part...well lets say i had to catch a bucket to stop the nosebleed from leaving a stain on my floor...looking foward to that.

also i LOVED the young kirino x kyouske illustrations of this volume

with a season 2 comming in 2013 i'm more than happy with the oreimo franchise

now as for the end of the novel...i strongly believe in a kirino x kyousuke end, and not that not blood-related scheme but the real deal

especially after both off them realizing that they were in fact a brocon and a siscon

also for those that don't remember and if are hoping it would happen, kyousuke did had a fast kiss with kirino at chapter 4 of volume 8 nishishishi
well that is for my thoughts, hope you enjoyed reading it :3

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Hmmm, yes, I was saying that because they were raised together, they are highly unlikely to see each other as sexually attracted - that is the effect that the Westermarck theory tries to describe. The effect is seen in multiple species. It isn't a 100% thing but it does put the onus on the author to provide a really good foundation for overriding the effect.

Well, except that the narrative has already made it pretty clear that they are sexually attracted to each other (particularly clear in the later volumes), and I can't really dismiss all that as a joke. Now, of course, whether that leads anywhere is another question. I suppose if it does not lead anywhere, some could then dismiss the whole thing as just a red herring, but I think we're a bit past the point of using Westermarck with these siblings...

[iCK]

Originally Posted by Syokool

The same applies to Kuroneko x Kyousuke. Ayase and Manami have less chances to be the last girl here, but they aren't out of the game either.

I like Ayase a lot, and Kuroneko is a good choise also, but even if you read the actual books you can't guess what the ending will be

Its probably been stated here some where in this thread, but the only characters I can see end up being with Kyousuke is either Kirino or Ayase.
Kuroneko already had her shot and she ended up being happy by just being by his side, shown via hand-drawn pictures by her being a maid to a possible coupling of Kyousuke and Kirino at the time.
So Kuroneko is out of the picture to me.
That leaves us with Manami, Saori, Kirino, Kanaka, and Ayase.
I believe Manami is also out of the picture.
This is due because of Kyousuke's old friend who confessed her love to him three years prior to Ore no Imouto, yet he turned her down because Kyousuke stated that he loves someone else. To my knowledge, the cold war was just starting up and Kyousuke and Kirino were still on good terms with each other.
Manami is out because when Kirino and Kyousuke started to rebuild their broken relationship, he accepted Kuroneko's feelings at the time without knowing Kirino's true feelings. Kyousuke can't possibly love Manami romantically because he started dating Kurnoneko volumes 7-8 with him ending up being dumped and Kirino catching the rebound. (He even said something along the lines of "damn, if Kirino wasn't my sister I would have defiantly fallen for her.")
Saori and Kanaka can't possibly be an option because it seemed they didn't spend enough time with Kyousuke to be a rival towards the other girls.
With Kirino and Ayase left, its easy to think that Kyousuke will end up Ayase just because he stated many times that he wants to marry her.

As for Kirino's gift to Kyousuke I think it will be;

A. His actual love that we have not yet met from three years ago
or
B. Kirino herself, by giving some type of document/book (such as that album she had in her secret otaku closet, we still have yet to see what is in there and I think it will play a huge part.) that shows they aren't real blood-related siblings.

Even in the anime, it left us wondering what is in that album. It wasn't discussed thoroughly since in the "good ending" the airplane ticket flies out of it and they get into a huge fight without actually seeing the album.

[Syokool]

U remember that box as well!

Yeah, there are a lot of reasons to think of any of them as the chosen girl, even Manami.

Spoiler for Comparison to Mayo Chiki LN:

The thing is this doesn't have a clear ending, as Mayo Chiki! where Jiro almost confesed to Subaru in vol.8 IIRC.

Being honest, I was rooting for Ayase since vol.1. It was after volume 5 that I started to think in Kirino as a possible romantical partner for Kyousuke.

I'll be happy wherever the choose will be (more happy if it's Ayase or Kirino), and not with an open ending where all live getting along with the others while still fighting for Kyousuke's love.

Maybe, Kanako would be the right choise (loli end. FTW ).

----

As for Akiko Himenokouji, she's in another level of beign brocon.

If she could, she'd have raped Akito a long ago

[bakAnki]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Spoiler for PSP Game if Story Plot:

To be honest, the way it was done in the PSP game uses the sort of stereotypical cheap trick for these stories. Kyousuke had thought of Kirino as his blood-related sister all along, until one day he realized that none of their childhood photos had him in it, and it eventually led to his parents revealing the secret. Meanwhile, Kirino says she "had a feeling" that might be the case, but she didn't know. So they basically treated each other as real siblings all along, and the revelation was just a way to artificially remove the barrier, and led to Kirino's confession that she's "always loved him".

In the end, I'm not sure how much it really changes the emotional side of the romance, even if they're now cousins rather than blood-related siblings.

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'll just say that in the event of a Kyou-Kirino romantic finale, the Westermarck issue pretty much shatters "suspension of disbelief" for me at least. They were raised together so blood, non-blood, cousins, whatever puts the notion into "0.01%" territory. It would take far more than one volume to lay the groundwork for that to be believable.

I'm not against the *idea* (e.g. I found YnS fairly believable) but I'm saying it simply has not been established in the story other than as a comedic jibe.

That's what basically Sena said to Kyousuke and Kirino on the second PSP game, I think.

Spoiler for PSP game:

When Sena learnt Kyousuke and Kirino is now a couple since they're not blood-related, Sena said that if that's the case with herself and Kouhei, she still won't be a couple. For Sena, even if she really likes Kouhei, what she wants is a boy who loves him like Kouhei and not Kouhei himself; even though not related by blood but they were raised as a true sibling since the beginning so Sena's feeling to Kouhei will remain as just 'brocon'.

And after that Kyousuke and Kirino said that it's different for their case. They always in bad term and pretending the other doesn't exist for long time (their cold war), and just begin to patch their sibling relationship for awhile. Thus when they learn they are not blood-related they can still see the other as opposite sex, not yet a sibling. Kyousuke said that for him his relationship with Kirino is like meeting again with childhood friend after a really long time while Kirino revealed in the end that since the beginning she loves Kyousuke, her onii-chan.

And I think that won't be the case for the light novel since the PSP story don't cover their pasts yet (when they really close, Kyousuke is hot-blooded good student, etc), thus Kyousuke on PSP can claim he doesn't really see Kirino as a little sister.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

At the end of the day, I think it's pretty much guaranteed that the story will end with Kirino conveying her genuine gratitude/feelings somehow, and Kyousuke doing a title call. I'd bet on it.

It'd be hilarious if the ending is Kyousuke is in relationship with other girl *preferably Ayase* but Kirino is also gives him her real feeling so Kyousuke does a variation of title call for epilogue, like "I'm Kousaka Kyousuke. I already have a wonderful girlfriend beside me, but for some reason I always skip a heartbeat whenever I see Kirino, my little sister. My little sister can't be this cute!", with a final scene of Kirino steal Kyousuke's attention from his girlfriend who left on the background

Originally Posted by Syokool

Maybe, Kanako would be the right choise (loli end. FTW ).

True loli end would be Bridgette as the end girl

Or maybe Kirino's ex-roommate when she was on America? XD
Forgot the name but I remember she's younger than Kirino

[GVN.Chaos]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Hmmm, yes, I was saying that because they were raised together, they are highly unlikely to see each other as sexually attracted - that is the effect that the Westermarck theory tries to describe. The effect is seen in multiple species. It isn't a 100% thing but it does put the onus on the author to provide a really good foundation for overriding the effect.

Raised together, true. But my point is aside from living close to each other, their relationship was so badly damaged that they barely talk to each other. So they almost like stranger. Westermarck theory states that they need to familiar with to develop sexually attracted - which both Kirino and Kyou don't, thus null Westermarck.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos

Westermarck theory states that they need to familiar with to develop sexually attracted - which both Kirino and Kyou don't, thus null Westermarck.

Well, the problem is that the theory -- as written -- says that it's time in your youngest years that affect this, which is not an (apparent?) issue for Kirino and Kyousuke (barring some further development). The time they spent apart was in their late-childhood/early-teen-aged years, so well after when Westermarck should have statistically taken its effect.

But in any case, it's a general rule that has some statistical significance (has been observed in studies); barring further revelation, I think it's something the author has not made apply in this story's case. I don't think attraction is the issue, but stigma and a variety of other plot-dependant reasons are more likely to stop them if anything.

[hans_87]

hey guys does enybody knows when second season of the anime starts ?? I heard it will start on december 12th, but i dont know if that true. Could anybody confirm that , please and i know is probably too erly, but is there any information when volume 12 is relesed ??

[Shinji103]

I think the December 12 release you're talking about is volume 12.

As for S2, no word on when it'll start airing. Though since (I believe) there's no website up for it yet even, it won't be for quite a while.

[Ithekro]

All this is pretty much why I'd pick Saori.

[Maugomale]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I think the December 12 release you're talking about is volume 12

Doubt it. Oreimo novels usually are released 6 months apart from each other

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by hans_87

hey guys does enybody knows when second season of the anime starts ?? I heard it will start on december 12th, but i dont know if that true. Could anybody confirm that , please and i know is probably too erly, but is there any information when volume 12 is relesed ??

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I think the December 12 release you're talking about is volume 12.

As for S2, no word on when it'll start airing. Though since (I believe) there's no website up for it yet even, it won't be for quite a while.

Nope, Dengeki's line up for December does not include OreImo.

And of course there's absolutely no way a high profile Anime like this would start in December- That's the final leg of the Fall season.