Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by humbug23

I would be inclined to say that yes, she did, along with the rest of the forwards, during that little video presentation on Nanoha's past.

I have limited understanding as well, but it seems that Nanoha doesn't want reckless behaviour on her wards, which they fully demonstrated during the mock battle.

I'm going to just quote myself from the episode 8 thread, about what would make me happy:

Originally Posted by dkellis

Certainly. Nanoha only needs to explain herself to Subaru and Teana (to my satisfaction, which means no dancing around the topic, just straight out "this is what you did wrong, this is what you should do, and here's why"), and I'll be happy enough with the Lawful bit. Heck, even a statement going "Instructor Nanoha Takamachi acted completely within TSAB regulations and no irregularities in her behaviour and actions were found despite thorough investigation" would be enough.

So, Nanoha explained herself directly to Teana.

She did not do so to Subaru.

The Message that the "watch this" and second shot was supposed to send to Subaru remained unspoken, or offscreen.

I have a lot more to say about this, and since the gauntlet appears to have been picked up, I'll try to stay awake until I keel over at the keyboard or something. I do beg for indulgence in allowing for some time for thoughts to be phrased correctly in my brain, though.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Uh-huh...

Speaking of unclear messages: what?

EDIT: Never mind. Sleep it is then.

[An Hero in Disguise]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Season One: It's not the TSAB on the whole who had found Nanoha/Fate/Yuuno, it's just one ship and her crew.

The decision was up to the ADMIRAL in charge.

Do you see any error and/or fault with the result of her decision?

Season Two: The TSAB's soldiers are not as impressive as you think they are. Both Nanoha and Fate were some of their strongest on the scene.

As for Fate's case, she has ADMIRAL Lindy and ENFORCER Chrono to vouch for her.

For S1 - the results of the decisions made were positive indeed, but where's the guarantee it couldn't end up really messy? There were possibilities of more failproof actions to take. Did they even contact the headquarters on that matter? (sorry if I don't remember that)

For S2 - I can agree that an ordinary TSAB officer isn't necessarily as powerful as Nanoha and Fate were at that time, yet what kind of organization is TSAB if they have to rely on some outsiders' help in a very important case which was the Book of Darkness? If their powers are really that pathetic, how can such an organization even pretend to ADMINISTRATE time-space?

EDIT:

About Graham's case, and also other cases of committing crimes/insubordination: one thing must be made clear - is TSAB a strict military/police organization or just some bureaucratic body with just enough power to react to occasional emergencies? What I've seen so far doesn't suit the first variant much (in a strict military organization you wouldn't let unknown 9-year-old girls run around with grenade launchers, even if they're good at it; there would be rules regarding most possible situations - at least the actions in case of encountering an outsider armed with a weapon not belonging to their world should be clear; and in such organization proper punishment for breaking the rules should be essential), and if it's the second it kinda contradicts with the whole picture of military hierarchy we've been seeing in StrikerS.

[Key Board]

::warps in::

I will break things down in english:

signum says:
during battle there will be times when the circumstances forces to ignore your the textbook manual training, and push yourself beyond that. But was there such a need in the previous incidents?

shari says:
don't be flashy. just because you can cast epic tier spells to kill every generic grunt out there it doesn't mean you have to
Nanoha committed this mistake years ago, overexerted herself and thus leaving her open for counter attack. Don't be a show-of

nanoha says:
there is nothing wrong with close combat. the problem lies that she wasn't supposed to do it yet.

And was there really a need for that? what's wrong with using crossfire shoot? when used properly it can kicks ass... and not to mention hurt a lot

conclusion:
don't try being a hero if you don't have to.
be efficient. don't be flashy
Nanoha still isn't very good with explaining herself the first time around

::warps out::

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

For S1 - the results of the decisions made were positive indeed, but where's the guarantee it couldn't end up really messy? There were possibilities of more failproof actions to take. Did they even contact the headquarters on that matter? (sorry if I don't remember that)

An Admiral had made the call.

You don't get to become an Admiral without alot of experience in handling different situations.

If she thinks it's the right move, it's most likely is.

Yes, I said most likely, because there's always a possibility to be wrong.

But then again, so does everything else.

If the decisions made by Lindy were correct, she shouldn't be bothered to bring up "what if'' scenarios and have people lose faith in her correct decisions.

EDIT:

They contacted HQ after the incident was over. To them at that time, it was treated as a standard case... No need to run back to mommy and daddy for every little thing.

For S2 - I can agree that an ordinary TSAB officer isn't necessarily as powerful as Nanoha and Fate were at that time, yet what kind of organization is TSAB if they have to rely on some outsiders' help in a very important case which was the Book of Darkness? If their powers are really that pathetic, how can such an organization even pretend to ADMINISTRATE time-space?

The Book of Darkness is no push over. It is NOT a standard case.

Vita and Signum's powers could only be matched by 5% of the TSAB forces.

And as Chrono had said, even though he was busy with the Book of Darkness case, else where other troubles were going on.

The TSAB simply don't have the manpower to cover all grounds. Which means they're thankful for whatever reliable help they could get.

And once again, they have both Lindy and Chrono vouching for them

[Ottocycle]

Originally Posted by dkellis

So, Nanoha explained herself directly to Teana.

She did not do so to Subaru.

The Message that the "watch this" and second shot was supposed to send to Subaru remained unspoken, or offscreen.

Actually, the fact that she actually actively went to look for Teana for a one-to-one shows she's more than prepared to explain and justify what she had done, to anyone, let alone the other person that's entangled within this drama. Apologizing/Justifying would probably be easier when you're not doing it to the Intended Target I guess.

As for Subaru's side, since I do agree that she too requires a one-to-one, I have no explanation but to say that since Teana is the main one having problems with Nanoha's training, got the business end of the energy blast twice, the creators decided to put Subaru's turn offscreen?

Weak, I know. Therefore I concede.

Originally Posted by dkellis

Heck, even a statement going "Instructor Nanoha Takamachi acted completely within TSAB regulations and no irregularities in her behaviour and actions were found despite thorough investigation" would be enough.

Now that kind of justification would not be acceptable to me, and would be terribly out of character. It just smells of "You not satisfied with my authority? Then I'll just get even higher authority to smash that dissatisfaction"
Nanoha probably ain't one to implement useless training doctrines just because they are, but because they'd improve the rookies.

Edit: Thanks Key Board!

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

EDIT:

About Graham's case, and also other cases of committing crimes/insubordination: one thing must be made clear - is TSAB a strict military/police organization or just some bureaucratic body with just enough power to react to occasional emergencies?

What I've seen so far doesn't suit the first variant much (in a strict military organization you wouldn't let unknown 9-year-old girls run around with grenade launchers, even if they're good at it; there would be rules regarding most possible situations -

at least the actions in case of encountering an outsider armed with a weapon not belonging to their world should be clear; and in such organization proper punishment for breaking the rules should be essential), and if it's the second it kinda contradicts with the whole picture of military hierarchy we've been seeing in StrikerS.

There is obviously different ways to handle different situations.

Just because you are strict is one particular area, doesn't mean you can't let certain things slide in another. An Organization needs to be flexable at certain times.

To them, if after judging the person in question to not have any bad intentions, there shouldn't be any reason to arrest the said person.

As for Graham case... This is not the first time that people had made deals. Be it in real life or fiction. IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE, there's nothing to be surprised at, police do it all the time, especially when it's a cop with a good reputation, but made one bad mistake.

[An Hero in Disguise]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

An Admiral had made the call.

You don't get to become an Admiral without alot of experience in handling different situations.

If she thinks it's the right move, it's most likely is.

My point is, it shouldn't be even necessary to think about different decisions in S1 cases - there should be exact rules for handling them. Even more so if it's a standart case, as you mention.

If it's a case TSAB can handle without much effort, the most logical course of actions would be to disarm Nanoha and send her home, make Yuuno explain himself and cooperate, disarm Fate and lock her up, than deal with the case properly - when it's finished TSAB could approach the girls formally. It could end not that miraculously good as it did in S1 but would be much less risky.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

The Book of Darkness is no push over. It is NOT a standard case.

Vita and Signum's powers could only be matched by 5% of the TSAB forces.

And as Chrono had said, even though he was busy with the Book of Darkness case, else where other troubles were going on.

The TSAB simply don't have the manpower to cover all grounds. Which means they're thankful for whatever reliable help they could get.

Well, if the case is that important TSAB could surely care a bit more about it. In fact we barely see anyone from TSAB act except Nanoha and Fate. It's told that the Book of Darkness reappears about once a generation and causes lots of trouble - if it's that special I could at least expect some kind of elite force to counter it. Instead they prefer to risk the lives of people not even directly related to TSAB. It's OK to use outside help, but here they almost completely rely on it again.

Back to S3 and current topic:

Any excuses to present TSAB incompetences?

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Shinn x Stellar ONLY IF it happens. Otherwise, it's just excessive speculative rambling that's ruined.

Besides, if we assume Elio is something like Lutecia (( also a created being )), then it's really closer to Kamille x Four's "we are the same, kindred beings" attraction with each other. It also allows flak for Lutelio attachment without needing assumed bonding time Elio/Caro shares outside the anime, etc.

You know, this might end up as the new front of another ship war...

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

Does anyone agree that TSAB completely fails as a decent military/police organization in many aspects? I'll point out some examples:
- S3 - (here comes Ep.9 so I'm not writing off-topic stuff) I won't mention the issues with RF6 creation and limiters, only direct TSAB failures: Dr.Spaghetti is a wanted criminal for years, yet he's able to conduct researches in huge facilities, mass-produce combat drones and get access to Jewel Seeds without TSAB having a slightest idea about his whereabouts; smuggling Relic-class objects doesn't seem to be a rare occasion; combat drones, some of them being comparable to a tank or a fighter-jet, are able to deploy almost anywhere with TSAB noticing only when they actually start acting (in Ep.9 a whole squadron of flying ones appears all of a sudden - where were they hidden? teleported? where are they produced?); and most recent one I'm not 100% sure due to moonspeak - was the "unknown" entitiy that ambushed Nanoha ever identified and dealt with?

So I come to the conclusion that either TSAB is a totally incompetent organization or there's a really big conspiracy after all of this which is yet to be revealed.

I'd only agree with you on the third point. The only logical way Spagetti has that much leverage is either the higher ups have their hand in this, or he's hiding in the TSAB equivalent of Iraq/Iran/Afganistan under a tyranical regime.

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

For S2 - I can agree that an ordinary TSAB officer isn't necessarily as powerful as Nanoha and Fate were at that time, yet what kind of organization is TSAB if they have to rely on some outsiders' help in a very important case which was the Book of Darkness? If their powers are really that pathetic, how can such an organization even pretend to ADMINISTRATE time-space?

Very simply, they don't. I see Enforcers, I see Investigators, I see omgwtfpwners, but I don't see politicians and members of parliament. Their name is a misnomer in a sense that they only handle home security and enforcerment duties, with no evidence of handling of defence or governance.

People who've seen me post in the OC thread would know that I've a fandom theory of how this political monolith works. So yes I agree, the TSAB doesn't seem functional when considered alone, but with the huge canon gaps outside of the viewpoints of our dear rookies, because the TSAB is still funtional and all of MC is not in anarchy can I say that there's room for fandom to fill in the gaps and show how this works without screwing canon, but supporting it instead.

Another point here: While there's the mention of the Armed Forces and the Air Force and what not, but remember, this is the organisation that deploys uber technology like Metal Storm cartridge loading (as seen in Cross Mirage) that we Terrans still dream to have. The US Army dreams of full combined arms tactics as the way of warfare in the 21st century. Therefore it is not a stretch to realize that we're looking at an organisation that has probably mastered the art of combined arms tactics so well that it isn't divided into Air, Land and Sea, but into roles they fulfill. So while the TSAB resembles a military organisation, its closer to a police force that has totally integrated Coast Guard, Neighborhood Police Patrols and the SWAT which due to their powers are pretty much the Airborne branch into one neat package.

I got to admit, its rather loosely administered themselves. But from my experience in an Armed Force, I can say that life is rather loose on the ground while the Higher ups do all the slacking and the middle ranks get all the shit, hence the reason why it looks so lax. It's only boot camp where all the "Tough Sergeant Love" rep the Army has comes from. In standing units, too much of that is an efficiency killer. What they do is that they have one person in charge of it, and Vita fills that niche nicely.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

Any excuses to present TSAB incompetences?

Present.

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

- S3 - (here comes Ep.9 so I'm not writing off-topic stuff) I won't mention the issues with RF6 creation and limiters, only direct TSAB failures: Dr.Spaghetti is a wanted criminal for years, yet he's able to conduct researches in huge facilities, mass-produce combat drones and get access to Jewel Seeds without TSAB having a slightest idea about his whereabouts; smuggling Relic-class objects doesn't seem to be a rare occasion; combat drones, some of them being comparable to a tank or a fighter-jet, are able to deploy almost anywhere with TSAB noticing only when they actually start acting (in Ep.9 a whole squadron of flying ones appears all of a sudden - where were they hidden? teleported? where are they produced?);

Let's grab a little example from our world: terorism. People are able to smuggle bombs, weapons, drive cars filled with bombs, fly entire airplanes into buildings....

Oh, and the Americans still haven't caught Osama. In fact, they have no idea where he is and what he is doing, sounds a bit like our good doctor? Looks like the TSAB incompetence is actually quite the same as our own world's incompetence.

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

and most recent one I'm not 100% sure due to moonspeak - was the "unknown" entitiy that ambushed Nanoha ever identified and dealt with?

Unknown, but hey, that happens all the time in this world as well. Murder cases anyone?

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

So I come to the conclusion that either TSAB is a totally incompetent organization or there's a really big conspiracy after all of this which is yet to be revealed.

Concidering our world and its enforcers are having the exact same problems as the TSAB, no, I don't really believe the TSAB is really that incompetent.

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Let's grab a little example from our world: terorism. People are able to smuggle bombs, weapons, drive cars filled with bombs, fly entire airplanes into buildings....

Oh, and the Americans still haven't caught Osama. In fact, they have no idea where he is and what he is doing, sounds a bit like our good doctor? Looks like the TSAB incompetence is actually quite the same as our own world's incompetence.

Unknown, but hey, that happens all the time in this world as well. Murder cases anyone?

Concidering our world and its enforcers are having the exact same problems as the TSAB, no, I don't really believe the TSAB is really that incompetent.

Agreed.

And just like to add on that it IS possible to totally stealth one's operations from TSAB sensors, even my earlier mentioned wormhole cameras. The Belka Knights did that in A's, and have been doing that for years, possibly centuries, hence the great difficulty in their capture. In S1, the Garden of Time was barriered against detection as well; it took direct vector coordinates from the Jewel Seeds warping back to the Garden for Amy to pierce the protection. Why can't this be applied to Spagetti? After all, if you're a supervillian in the Nanohaverse, Wormhole Disrupters would be the first tech you'd invest in, so that teh Byg Gungirls don't come banging on your door the moment you set up shop.

[An Hero in Disguise]

Ah, will be a pain to quote everything, so I'll make a general post:

First - if we consider TSAB some emergency service instead of an organization actually governing time-space its failures won't seem so dire indeed. Well, and on that we could close S1 and S2 arguments to stay on-topic, although I could've added a bit more but will be soon repeating ourselves.

Second - comparing evil doctor with our terrorist organizations is a good move, but the situation with TSAB seems worse than we have: relic weapons should be on par with modern nuclear weapons in average (and some are able to even bring entire worlds to destruction if I'm not mistaken), so security on them should be top-notch, yet it doesn't seem so; and the gadget drones - in Ep.9 a bunch of them is detected when they're already in the sky over some city (or not far from it) - can you imagine a dozen of fighter jets approaching an european capital unnoticed for example? (I have counterarguments to them being teleported too)

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

Second - comparing evil doctor with our terrorist organizations is a good move, but the situation with TSAB seems worse than we have: relic weapons should be on par with modern nuclear weapons in average (and some are able to even bring entire worlds to destruction if I'm not mistaken), so security on them should be top-notch, yet it doesn't seem so;

The problem lies in the fact that relics are exactly what their name sugest: Relics. they need to be excavated before they are found, this is different from nuclear weapons, which are manufactured and can immediately be put behind bars once complete.

and the gadget drones - in Ep.9 a bunch of them is detected when they're already in the sky over some city (or not far from it) - can you imagine a dozen of fighter jets approaching an european capital unnoticed for example? (I have counterarguments to them being teleported too)

Stealth fighters are very much able to do so, so no, the drones aproaching without being detected untill it was too late did not surprise me.

[An Hero in Disguise]

Originally Posted by Keroko

The problem lies in the fact that relics are exactly what their name sugest: Relics. they need to be excavated before they are found, this is different from nuclear weapons, which are manufactured and can immediately be put behind bars once complete.

Stealth fighters are very much able to do so, so no, the drones aproaching without being detected untill it was too late did not surprise me.

I agree that Relics are harder to keep in check and protected, but I think TSAB could do a bit more about it. It's still unclear what was the thing Lutecia got from that truck for Doctor, but if it was at least comparable to relics in importance the security was really lacking.

We can argue what stealth fighters are actually able to do, and we don't know the drones' characteristics on top of that. That also leaves the cases with large ground ones in previous episodes uncertain. And most importantly - the drones have to be either produced in the same world they're deployed or delivered there somehow - I doubt that's easy to hide, especially when these cases occur repeatedly for a long time.

[Burner of Anime]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

For S1 - the results of the decisions made were positive indeed, but where's the guarantee it couldn't end up really messy? There were possibilities of more failproof actions to take. Did they even contact the headquarters on that matter? (sorry if I don't remember that)

For S2 - I can agree that an ordinary TSAB officer isn't necessarily as powerful as Nanoha and Fate were at that time, yet what kind of organization is TSAB if they have to rely on some outsiders' help in a very important case which was the Book of Darkness? If their powers are really that pathetic, how can such an organization even pretend to ADMINISTRATE time-space?.

I'd like to point out something in S1 you may not have considered, the Jewel Seeds here were on Earth because of a major TSAB mess up. A world apparently in a frontier region of time/space and protected by a non-interferance treaty. Sending the military in the open will not only be tragic because of the rioting monkeys, it's also an admission of error on their part. Also, there may not be suitable agents available to deal with the investigation and blend in at the same time. As it is, a specialist battle group did get sent in S1, not for the Jewel Seed but after Precia herself. Call it answering power with power, otherwise recovering something the TSAB misplaced isn't really high on priority.

Basically the TSAB had no one they could send to Earth to investigate Precia, especially after encountering Fate and her insane speed hax. On the other hand, there was this local wild mage able to chase after the girl, and she was doing it quietly. In light of this, the admiral in charge had 2 choices:
1 Disarm Nanoha because she's a kid with a big gun.
2 Help her with logistics/intel support, training and hide her battles from the locals.

No suprise on the choice.

For sending in the kids to do battle, it may very well be that the children on Mid-child grow up quickly into their power. Not because they are given the training to be able to firebomb a large building on a whim, likely because they ALL can do so from birth. It's the Jedi analogy, imagine having someone able to bend reality as they wish on instinct- now add that to a society where that ability is common place. What is the government to do in the event a tantrumimg kid or emo teen decides to nuke a shopping mall for fun, unless the discipline is instilled from youth?

My guess is they turned the whole place into a police state and restrict a number of high end artifacts and abilities. Something like the TSAB NO-Fly Zone over the City and a department in charge of hunting down Lost Logia devices. The thing is, the society the TSAB is based on appears to be descended from survivors of previous civilisations with the same problem. It's not pretty but overall IMO the controls they placed on themselves have made them rather stable- despite everyone and their grandma having personal nuclear weapons .

I doubt these guys can administrate/police the whole range of areas with their manpower. The best possible would be to hold themselves in check, keep what they do in the open for oversight, section off anyone who likely does not have magical abilities in special reservations before hunting down the remnants of lost civilisations.

For S2: Same trouble, Same Place and involving the Same people [Vita hammered Nanoha first]. Having Fate there was probably a genius plan for the book to be completed sooner.

The fact that the highest ranking officer in the TSAB was planning for the book to go wild and explode in his homeworld and out of the TSAB jurisdiction is all the more reason for people to shut up afterwards.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

I agree that Relics are harder to keep in check and protected, but I think TSAB could do a bit more about it. It's still unclear what was the thing Lutecia got from that truck for Doctor, but if it was at least comparable to relics in importance the security was really lacking.

You mean the item that the TSAB didn't know was there? Guarding an item you don't know is there would be quite hard.

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

We can argue what stealth fighters are actually able to do, and we don't know the drones' characteristics on top of that. That also leaves the cases with large ground ones in previous episodes uncertain.

Detecting ground units is different from detecting air units, lower range due to cover-jamming and all that. The drones were detected as soon as they came within sensor range.

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

And most importantly - the drones have to be either produced in the same world they're deployed or delivered there somehow - I doubt that's easy to hide, especially when these cases occur repeatedly for a long time.

Why shouldn't it be easy? If the docter is producing them in a side-dimension, he is virtually untracable unless you can get return coördinates. The entry can easilly be masked if there is no line of data to follow back.

[Kha]

This is an analogy from server-hopping that hackers use. Warp the drones through several dimensions until the first one turns cold, then plop them back into the nearest un-teleport-jammed zone to the target, and viola! Untraceable warp jumps. Unfortunately, this means the robots have to operate completely autonmously, for any control can be traced back to the hideout. This is seen as Spagetti admitted that his drones were "on their own" the moment he released them and therefore he is unable to alter their orders.

[An Hero in Disguise]

Originally Posted by Burner of Anime

Spoiler for length:

I'd like to point out something in S1 you may not have considered, the Jewel Seeds here were on Earth because of a major TSAB mess up. A world apparently in a frontier region of time/space and protected by a non-interferance treaty. Sending the military in the open will not only be tragic because of the rioting monkeys, it's also an admission of error on their part. Also, there may not be suitable agents available to deal with the investigation and blend in at the same time. As it is, a specialist battle group did get sent in S1, not for the Jewel Seed but after Precia herself. Call it answering power with power, otherwise recovering something the TSAB misplaced isn't really high on priority.

Basically the TSAB had no one they could send to Earth to investigate Precia, especially after encountering Fate and her insane speed hax. On the other hand, there was this local wild mage able to chase after the girl, and she was doing it quietly. In light of this, the admiral in charge had 2 choices:
1 Disarm Nanoha because she's a kid with a big gun.
2 Help her with logistics/intel support, training and hide her battles from the locals.

No suprise on the choice.

For sending in the kids to do battle, it may very well be that the children on Mid-child grow up quickly into their power. Not because they are given the training to be able to firebomb a large building on a whim, likely because they ALL can do so from birth. It's the Jedi analogy, imagine having someone able to bend reality as they wish on instinct- now add that to a society where that ability is common place. What is the government to do in the event a tantrumimg kid or emo teen decides to nuke a shopping mall for fun, unless the discipline is instilled from youth?

My guess is they turned the whole place into a police state and restrict a number of high end artifacts and abilities. Something like the TSAB NO-Fly Zone over the City and a department in charge of hunting down Lost Logia devices. The thing is, the society the TSAB is based on appears to be descended from survivors of previous civilisations with the same problem. It's not pretty but overall IMO the controls they placed on themselves have made them rather stable- despite everyone and their grandma having personal nuclear weapons .

I doubt these guys can administrate/police the whole range of areas with their manpower. The best possible would be to hold themselves in check, keep what they do in the open for oversight, section off anyone who likely does not have magical abilities in special reservations before hunting down the remnants of lost civilisations.

For S2: Same trouble, Same Place and involving the Same people [Vita hammered Nanoha first]. Having Fate there was probably a genius plan for the book to be completed sooner.

The fact that the highest ranking officer in the TSAB was planning for the book to go wild and explode in his homeworld and out of the TSAB jurisdiction is all the more reason for people to shut up afterwards.

That all changes the things a bit but doesn't make TSAB look any better with their inability to handle things properly themselves. The decision to trust Nanoha and Fate to deal with the problems in S1 and S2 may be correct but tne need for TSAB to make such decision shows their weakness as the order-enforcing organization. If their power is so lacking I wonder how they're able to prevent large-scale conflicts at all.

Ouch, I'm talking about S1 and S2 again. That was the last time for sure now.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

That all changes the things a bit but doesn't make TSAB look any better with their inability to handle things properly themselves. The decision to trust Nanoha and Fate to deal with the problems in S1 and S2 may be correct but tne need for TSAB to make such decision shows their weakness as the order-enforcing organization. If their power is so lacking I wonder how they're able to prevent large-scale conflicts at all.

Ouch, I'm talking about S1 and S2 again. That was the last time for sure now.

I am more under the impression that as an organization, the TSAB deals primarily with threats and situations that affect the fabric of interdimensional space. Notice how the Athra Crew didn't interfere with Nanoha and Fate until they activated the Jewel Seed's energy in their clashes, and they began to use powerful attacks with interdimensional consequences.

For larger scale conventional conflicts and situations, they have the Midchild Armed Forces for that role. And it has been mentioned several times that the TSAB, despite its size, is understaffed. As it is, they're already spread pretty thin.

[Deathkillz]

incompetence would be a way to describe the TSAB...like many "lawful" organizations a la police force for example there is a fair amount of incompetence around being that they are lazy or just dont give a dam...i suspect that the TSAB also has its fair amount of corruption around as well with the higher ups and whatnot...hence why hayate assembled her crack squad to actually do something about the crisis that looms ahead...and quite so they do fail if they dont have other agents who are at least up to nanoha's standards...being such a big organization the should have a lot of power hanging around but that doesnt seem to be the case...as it is always nanoha and Co to save the day...

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Icarus

Spoiler:

Correction. In the manga it says "... even if it was..." so it might be, it might not be. Whatever it is, it causes unnecessary drain, and if Nanoha is still using said program to improve her stamina, then it might have unneeded side-effects vis-a-vis her injuries.



If it is a latent effect of Raising Heart, then I can see the limiters being used to sustain her current health. Having something draining you in that manner mixing with injuries that horrific always leads to bad things.

I just want to point out that "Pressure Mode" was used in trainings only, it would be insanely dangerous to use it while in combat...

Originally Posted by Fuyu no Sora

Lutecia background so early on? Nah, I'm betting on Elio and Caro developing a nice love story while in vacation. Y'know "Mondial-Rushe Monogatari"

I second that request

Erio taking Caro on a date