The Genderbending of Haruhi Suzumiya [Spoilers Aplenty]

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Beat you to that.

*e* And... this is why I don't normally point stuff out.

So, I beat you in perceived you have beated me?

It is the second time you beat me today. I am geting worse on it

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

"In quantum mechanics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle states that certain pairs of physical properties, like position and momentum, cannot both be known to arbitrary precision. That is, the more precisely one property is known, the less precisely the other can be known. It is impossible to measure simultaneously both position and velocity of a microscopic particle with any degree of accuracy or certainty. This is not only a statement about the limitations of a researcher's ability to measure particular quantities of a system, following the tenets of logical positivism, it is a statement about the nature of the system itself."

And Star Trek got around this by using a thing called the "Heisenberg Compensators" to help explain how the Transporter worked...

There's an idea! Have Itsuko throw out some "Treknobabble" and see how it turns out!

[besieger]

Thus it makes a perfect twist to it. Go for it, Kaisos. And rep me for the idea.

[scify]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Pretty sure that was the reason... which makes it really awkward that Kyonko is on a last name basis with Kunikida, who she's known since before high school.

There's also a component of how comfortable two people are with each other. It's one thing to have known someone for awhile, it's another thing to be good friends. I've never gotten the feeling that Kyon and Kunikida are more then friends in a relatively vague sense (more then just acquaintances, but less then someone you might go out of your way to spend time with). And Taniguchi is just... Taniguchi.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by scify

There's also a component of how comfortable two people are with each other. It's one thing to have known someone for awhile, it's another thing to be good friends. I've never gotten the feeling that Kyon and Kunikida are more then friends in a relatively vague sense (more then just acquaintances, but less then someone you might go out of your way to spend time with). And Taniguchi is just... Taniguchi.

So, you are suggesting Kyonko is more confortable with Itsuko? Really? Sure, is not like Kunikida is her best friend, but Itsuko creeps her out.

Also, still don't make sense why she wouldn't call her old best friend by the given name. She was never as close to Sasaki as she is to Haruki, but was probably closer to him then to Itsuko.

Again, a particuarily of Kyon is he calls everyone by it family name. Exept Haruhi (and those who haven't even a name, like his sister and the CCP).

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Another problem that arises from the logic... is that the seemingly inseparable Taniguchi and Kunikida are also on a last name basis with one another...

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Another problem that arises from the logic... is that the seemingly inseparable Taniguchi and Kunikida are also on a last name basis with one another...

Actually, I don't remember they talking about each other. Don't remember if they ever talked the other's name at all.

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by Heatth

So, you are suggesting Kyonko is more confortable with Itsuko? Really? Sure, is not like Kunikida is her best friend, but Itsuko creeps her out.

Also, still don't make sense why she wouldn't call her old best friend by the given name. She was never as close to Sasaki as she is to Haruki, but was probably closer to him then to Itsuko.

Again, a particuarily of Kyon is he calls everyone by it family name. Except Haruhi (and those who haven't even a name, like his sister and the CCP).

Itsuko may creep Kyonko out, but unlike Kunikida (as far as I know), they've been through some very weird stuff together, and she does know Itsuko 'has her back', as it were: she can rely on her when things get tough, and vice versa (no matter how much she may complain about it).

Perhaps it is the amount of emotional intimacy that determines whether Kyonko calls people by first name? Kunikida, she's known for a long time, but thinks of as a somewhat foolish classmate. Sasaki was someone she was sort of close to, someone who at least intrigued her. Haruki is the big whirlwind that blew through her life and let in mad fun. Itsuko is a fellow girl with whom she's gone through the mad fun spawned by Haruki. She may squee over Mitsuuru, but she knows on a very concrete level that they're not meant for each other, no matter how much she enjoys his company, so she keeps a certain proper distance in her form of address. We know she likes Nagato, but his general presence does not provoke her to use his first name, unlike whirlwind Haruki? Just some thoughts ...

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Live A Live has Kunikida referring to Taniguchi by name a few times, and I think Taniguchi said Kunikida's name at least once there, as well.

While that would normally be a "Bridge. Cross. Later." thing, it does cause a bit of problems.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Aebliss

Perhaps it is the amount of emotional intimacy that determines whether Kyonko calls people by first name? Kunikida, she's known for a long time, but thinks of as a somewhat foolish classmate. Sasaki was someone she was sort of close to, someone who at least intrigued her. Haruki is the big whirlwind that blew through her life and let in mad fun. Itsuko is a fellow girl with whom she's gone through the mad fun spawned by Haruki. She may squee over Mitsuuru, but she knows on a very concrete level that they're not meant for each other, no matter how much she enjoys his company, so she keeps a certain proper distance in her form of address. We know she likes Nagato, but his general presence does not provoke her to use his first name, unlike whirlwind Haruki? Just some thoughts ...

I agree with many things here. But, I don't see why she would show closeness to Itsuko over Mitsuru or Yuuki. She probably is closer to her (both are girls, after all), but is still odd she demonstring it. Again she was probably closer to Sasaki, at last in the past. Also, there is the problem she calling Itsuko 'Itsuko' in Melancholy (and even Boredom), since they wasn't close at all yet.

On more thing, I always took Kyon calling Haruhi for her first name as a sig of proximity, given how he fall everyone else by it last name. This feeling is destroyed by having other person being called by the first name


And I never hear about girls being more open to friends, actually. In hight school, the bigger groups of friends are all male. (but, well, here everybody just call everyone by it given name, so I am not sure how it works in other contries)

PP:

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Live A Live has Kunikida referring to Taniguchi by name a few times, and I think Taniguchi said Kunikida's name at least once there, as well.

While that would normally be a "Bridge. Cross. Later." thing, it does cause a bit of problems.

Well, this bridge was actualy crossed a long ago. We need to make sure if it was the right one or if we should back.

I was look Live A Live again. It seen japaneses has at standard callingpeople by it last name, even if it is a close school mate right?

[CanadaAotS]

Get someone to edit in a scene where Itsuko specifically requests that Kyonko uses her first name in the novel rewrites, and voila! Problem solved.

You can just say that Kyonko never calls anyone else by first name simply because she was never asked to. It's not like it wouldn't be in Itsuko's character to do that... similar to regularly invading Kyonko's personal space

@Aebliss
CLIMAX OF STORY, I NEEEEED IT.
Btw, I actually don't mind Mitsuuru in your story. He's still a meh character overall (not your fault in any way, so was Mikuru), but I like seeing him with a spine. Mikuru -never- got angry about anything as far as I know. Nice job.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by CanadaAotS

Get someone to edit in a scene where Itsuko specifically requests that Kyonko uses her first name in the novel rewrites, and voila! Problem solved.

You can just say that Kyonko never calls anyone else by first name simply because she was never asked to. It's not like it wouldn't be in Itsuko's character to do that... similar to regularly invading Kyonko's personal space

That might work. But, it is really that necessery having her calling Itsuko by her first name? If is to same work, I can edit the scripts myself, at last for the VN (I have to work with then anyway).

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by Solais

This should be an official novel.

Well, thank you very much for that. ^^ But if it were, I couldn't ... um ... Why don't I keep my future intentions to myself for now? Yeah. But thanks a lot!

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

It's amusing when Haruki gets protective.
Also, Mitsuuru seems rather obsessed with the being the Scully here...despite being from the future and in a club full of supernatural freaks.

Well, Asahina's given me a 'Scully'-vibe several times, the way Mikuru originally contradicts the infodump given by Koizumi, and some of her later responses. And of course those translate over to little ol' Mitsuuru and ... presto! 'Sides, the Asahinas are, in a sense of the word, programmed ... :-\ All that 'classified information' stuff gave me the feeling they're either directly wired into their futuristic version of a computer, or they've been brainwashed.

Originally Posted by vivify93

This is my one major nitpick: *snip*

Fixed it.

Originally Posted by CanadaAotS

@Aebliss
CLIMAX OF STORY, I NEEEEED IT.
Btw, I actually don't mind Mitsuuru in your story. He's still a meh character overall (not your fault in any way, so was Mikuru), but I like seeing him with a spine. Mikuru -never- got angry about anything as far as I know. Nice job.

It's coming, it's coming! ^^; One or two more chapters, maybe three on the outside. And thanks for your appreciation for special spine-action Mitsuuru. I figured a boy would lash out at least once or twice where a girl might be more likely to hold her tongue.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by CanadaAotS

Get someone to edit in a scene where Itsuko specifically requests that Kyonko uses her first name in the novel rewrites, and voila! Problem solved.

You can just say that Kyonko never calls anyone else by first name simply because she was never asked to. It's not like it wouldn't be in Itsuko's character to do that... similar to regularly invading Kyonko's personal space

Mitsuuru asked Kyonko to tall him by his first name in Chapter 2. Not gonna work.

Spoiler:

"It's all right. I want to join."

"But I really don't think this will turn out well at all.”

"But you're in it, aren't you?"

Yeah... but not by choice. Why am I even still here?

"This was probably inevitable on the temporal plane..." he said, his eyes staring off into the distance.

""Pardon?"

"And I'm interested in the presence of Nagato-san..."

"Interested?"

"Eh? Oh, no, it's nothing." he said, shaking his head. His hair waved gently as he smiled, looking embarrassed, and gave me a deep bow.

"I may be a little trouble, but please bear with me for now!"

"Uh, if you say so, but look, Asahina-senpai-"

"Please, just call me Mitsuuru!"

He smiled.

Aww... he’s so cute!

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Mitsuuru asked Kyonko to tall him by his first name in Chapter 2. Not gonna work.

Spoiler:

"It's all right. I want to join."

"But I really don't think this will turn out well at all.”

"But you're in it, aren't you?"

Yeah... but not by choice. Why am I even still here?

"This was probably inevitable on the temporal plane..." he said, his eyes staring off into the distance.

""Pardon?"

"And I'm interested in the presence of Nagato-san..."

"Interested?"

"Eh? Oh, no, it's nothing." he said, shaking his head. His hair waved gently as he smiled, looking embarrassed, and gave me a deep bow.

"I may be a little trouble, but please bear with me for now!"

"Uh, if you say so, but look, Asahina-senpai-"

"Please, just call me Mitsuuru!"

He smiled.

Aww... he’s so cute!

Oh, that is true. This also happened with Kyon and Mikuru.

Well, if she didn't call Mitsuru, her loved brother replacer, but his first name after this, why would she call Itsuko?

[scify]

Originally Posted by Aebliss

Well, Asahina's given me a 'Scully'-vibe several times, the way Mikuru originally contradicts the infodump given by Koizumi, and some of her later responses. And of course those translate over to little ol' Mitsuuru and ... presto! 'Sides, the Asahinas are, in a sense of the word, programmed ... :-\ All that 'classified information' stuff gave me the feeling they're either directly wired into their futuristic version of a computer, or they've been brainwashed.

Isn't this directly mentioned somewhere, in either the anime or the light novels? Something about the internet in the future actually being a part of everyone? Or am I pulling that out of your story?

Originally Posted by Heatth

I agree with many things here. But, I don't see why she would show closeness to Itsuko over Mitsuru or Yuuki. She probably is closer to her (both are girls, after all), but is still odd she demonstring it. Again she was probably closer to Sasaki, at last in the past. Also, there is the problem she calling Itsuko 'Itsuko' in Melancholy (and even Boredom), since they wasn't close at all yet.

I was look Live A Live again. It seen japaneses has at standard callingpeople by it last name, even if it is a close school mate right?

My understanding of the situation (drawn primarily from Shoujo manga and other relationship-oriented stuff) is that your close friends of the same gender refer to you by your personal name, or sometimes a nickname, though not all nicknames are that special (Kyon, for example); on the other hand, having a member of the opposite sex refer to you by said name is a big deal.

I'll be the first to admit that this is applied somewhat unevenly: the above mentioned stories make it out to be vastly important, while the more shonen/actiony stories tend to have everyone calling everyone else by their personal name (except in cases of power differences... but we already know how those work somewhat well, having hashed it out with Mitsuuru much earlier on).

EDIT:

Originally Posted by vivify93

A can of worms has been opened. Ahaha~.

Well, it is a confusing topic.

[vivify93]

A can of worms has been opened. Ahaha~.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by scify

Isn't this directly mentioned somewhere, in either the anime or the light novels? Something about the internet in the future actually being a part of everyone? Or am I pulling that out of your story?

In her introdution infodump she said something about not being able to talk more then she should. In Endless Eight it make clear she really can't. In novel7, I beleive, she was surprise she could talk something to Kyon without being censored.

My understanding of the situation (drawn primarily from Shoujo manga and other relationship-oriented stuff) is that your close friends of the same gender refer to you by your personal name, or sometimes a nickname, though not all nicknames are that special (Kyon, for example); on the other hand, having a member of the opposite sex refer to you by said name is a big deal.

I'll be the first to admit that this is applied somewhat unevenly: the above mentioned stories make it out to be vastly important, while the more shonen/actiony stories tend to have everyone calling everyone else by their personal name (except in cases of power differences... but we already know how those work somewhat well, having hashed it out with Mitsuuru much earlier on).

This is kinda true. However, Mikuru/tsuru specificly asked him/her to be called by their first name, yet, Kyon/ko didn't did that. I think in a shoujo manga when the heroine make a similar question the hero acept right? Also, I think is more like Kyonko refusing to call Itsuko like that exactly because she asked to.

[Tyabann]

Kyonko calls Itsuko "Itsuko" because they're close friends, as loath as Kyonko is to admit it.

She's probably closer to Itsuko than anyone else in the brigade.

Now shut up.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Kyonko calls Itsuko "Itsuko" because they're close friends, as loath as Kyonko is to admit it.

She's probably closer to Itsuko than anyone else in the brigade.

Now shut up.

So is Kyon to Itsuki. Yet, he still calls him 'Koizumi'.