Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga Shitai! - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Mahou]

And besides, Chuunibyou is first and foremost fiction even if an anime/manga or whatever is made to be realistic. And these long-lasting mental scars in such situations are rather common in manga/anime-verse. Of course it's fine to simply not like something even if it makes sense "in-game"/is well-explained.

[Goggen]

Originally Posted by TimeSkip

BTW, it is Rikka who's always started the fight.

I wonder how you arrived at this conclusion, other than by means of "she's the chuunibyou so of course it's her fault", because that sure isn't what it looks like to me. It's clear, IMO, that as far as physical confrontations between the sisters go, Touka is the aggressor, because she sees Rikka's chuunibyou as something that is "wrong" and responds to it with violence.

Consider this: The first time we ever see Touka, Rikka is frantically running away from her, then trying to hide. Next morning, she shows up in Yuuta's room with a bandaged forehead.

Second time we ever see Touka, Rikka runs away from her. Rikka then accidentally knocks herself out, and when she comes to, runs away again, then tries to hide. Touka finds her, and only then does the fight happen. It ends with Rikka taking a ladle to the forehead.

Next time we see the two of them together is in episode 7, when Touka shows up in her car. First thing she does upon arrival is to pull out her ladle in a threatening manner (with no provocation), causing Rikka to assume a defensive stance.

After that, next time they meet (aside from a one-way conversation over a closed door) is when Touka shows up to stop Rikka and Yuuta from looking for the Ethereal Horizon. Rikka runs away.

The only time we see Rikka initiating a fight is at the end of 7 / beginning of 8, and that is obviously a special case because of her emotional state. Touka proceeds to beat the shit out of her.

But the telling moment comes afterwards: When the already defeated Rikka insists that "the Ethereal Horizan exists", Touka takes a firm step forwards, ladle in hand, clearly about to punish her for this outrageous statement, before Yuuta stops her.

So no. Rikka doesn't "always start the fight". If anything, the fighting between them comes about because Touka doesn't accept Rikka's chuunibyou. I'm sure Touka has had it rough, too, and continues to have it rough, but she's still in the wrong. If she'd just let the chuunibyou stuff slide and let Rikka deal with the loss in her own way, the two of them probably wouldn't have had this antagonistic relationship.

[Warm Mist]

One thing: Rikka isn't sad all the time, she only was sad in episode 7 due to the circumstances.

It's not that she has been mourning her father for 3 years, the chuunibyou is just a mark the father's death left in her personality (and this was not the only cause of Rikka developing chuunibyou, as we've seen in this episode).

She's pretty much a normal girl who is a bit of a nutcase. Only when she has to go visit her father's grave and deal with her grandparents and sister who don't accept her it's when she gets gloomy.

Of course, her chuunibyou continuing past middle school relates to the mental scars she has, but it's just that. Everyone is left with some scars when a person dear to them passes away, whether they already mourned their loss or not.

[Ringil]

Even though the advance in their relationship was presented very believably, it still feels Rikka isn't a real romantic option for Yuuta. It feels kinda wrong in a sense heh.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ringil

Even though the advance in their relationship was presented very believably, it still feels Rikka isn't a real romantic option for Yuuta. It feels kinda wrong in a sense heh.

Why? Yuuta is almost the only person who can decode her chuunibyou-speak. He's perfect for her!

[Metaler]

Not to mention he's an understanding person.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by The Green One

I do agree it would make a playable VN though.

Maybe wait for the PSP adaptation. Everything seems to be adapted in there after all.

Anyways, this episode strongly made me reminisce Umineko in the theme of accepting reality and escapism. About the rights and wrongs or even if those exist in it in the first place.

Rikka's shaky foundations is slowly being fortified as she leaned on Yuuta's helps. But this is the important turning point. Will she then make Yuuta as her escape or will she start to come to terms with everything? How will Yuuta react I wonder? I can't wait.

[TimeSkip]

Originally Posted by Goggen

I wonder how you arrived at this conclusion, other than by means of "she's the chuunibyou so of course it's her fault", because that sure isn't what it looks like to me. It's clear, IMO, that as far as physical confrontations between the sisters go, Touka is the aggressor, because she sees Rikka's chuunibyou as something that is "wrong" and responds to it with violence.

Consider this: The first time we ever see Touka, Rikka is frantically running away from her, then trying to hide. Next morning, she shows up in Yuuta's room with a bandaged forehead.

Second time we ever see Touka, Rikka runs away from her. Rikka then accidentally knocks herself out, and when she comes to, runs away again, then tries to hide. Touka finds her, and only then does the fight happen. It ends with Rikka taking a ladle to the forehead.

Next time we see the two of them together is in episode 7, when Touka shows up in her car. First thing she does upon arrival is to pull out her ladle in a threatening manner (with no provocation), causing Rikka to assume a defensive stance.

After that, next time they meet (aside from a one-way conversation over a closed door) is when Touka shows up to stop Rikka and Yuuta from looking for the Ethereal Horizon. Rikka runs away.

The only time we see Rikka initiating a fight is at the end of 7 / beginning of 8, and that is obviously a special case because of her emotional state. Touka proceeds to beat the shit out of her.

But the telling moment comes afterwards: When the already defeated Rikka insists that "the Ethereal Horizan exists", Touka takes a firm step forwards, ladle in hand, clearly about to punish her for this outrageous statement, before Yuuta stops her.

So no. Rikka doesn't "always start the fight". If anything, the fighting between them comes about because Touka doesn't accept Rikka's chuunibyou. I'm sure Touka has had it rough, too, and continues to have it rough, but she's still in the wrong. If she'd just let the chuunibyou stuff slide and let Rikka deal with the loss in her own way, the two of them probably wouldn't have had this antagonistic relationship.

Well, I don't know about the first one because the cause was not shown.

The second one, Rikka brought the cat although she knew that Toka was allergic to it.

Actaully, I'll just stop here. I don't have time to go into every scene. I just put it simple here.

To me Toka is a responsible, mature, and caring person. She would not resort to violent unless she was provoked. After a long day from work, why would she want to pick a fight with Rikka unless Rikka has done something to provoke her.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by TimeSkip

To me Toka is a responsible, mature, and caring person. She would not resort to violent unless she was provoked. After a long day from work, why would she want to pick a fight with Rikka unless Rikka has done something to provoke her.

Rikka's chuunibyo. She can't accept that part of her thus she went out of her way to 'correct' it. Afaik and regardless of what I think of it, it's a common reaction among parents and surrogates. Thus ironically, her "responsible and mature" part of her is what drove her violence towards Rikka. And she did it because she cared for her, only she's awfully awkward in expressing it.

[Ringil]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Why? Yuuta is almost the only person who can decode her chuunibyou-speak. He's perfect for her!

She just doesn't seem like someone who would interested in romantic things, though the episode clearly proved me wrong hhaa. It also feels awkward in that Rikka is kinda depicted like on the level of Yuuta's sister....

[teja208]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Rikka's chuunibyo. She can't accept that part of her thus she went out of her way to 'correct' it. Afaik and regardless of what I think of it, it's a common reaction among parents and surrogates. Thus ironically, her "responsible and mature" part of her is what drove her violence towards Rikka. And she did it because she cared for her, only she's awfully awkward in expressing it.

And she has an awfully wrong way of expressing them. What Toka really cares about is Rikka's future but not Rikka’s current self so to say but she also pities Rikka for what happen to their dad so she took her in. After all, Rikka has nowhere else to go. If supposed Rikka wasn't her younger sister, I doubt she would even give a damn, but she happens to be and while she provide a shelter for Rikka, she’s also ashamed of Rikka’s chu2byo which causes her grandfather and the rest of the society to start rejecting her in the first place. It can’t be helped since Rikka became infected with chu2byo is something beyond her control, but she wants to correct them if given the opportunity. I bet Toka must be waiting bitterly counting days when Rikka finally recovers from it, but no, that day never arrive even now that Rikka became a fully fledged HS student. And so, as days grew by, Toka become more and more impatient with Rikka's chu2byo antics and when she can’t stand them she reacts violently, but this also triggers a reverse physiological effect resulting in Rikka antagonizing her, Rikka’s chu2byo gotten worse, and creating a barrier between her and Rikka.

For me, I can’t honestly say I agree with how current Rikka live her life and her way of coping with her father's death, but at least it's her own choice to live that way and I can respect her for that matter as long as she isn’t causing any harm to herself and others. OTOH, Toka doesn’t think like this. She may think she did everything she could as a responsible elder sister for Rikka’s own good, but I felt that she is doing it the wrong way. She fails to love Rikka for who she is. What bothers Toka the most is that she is unable to understand why Rikka couldn’t recover from her father’s death, but hitting Rikka with a ladle isn’t going to make things any better. The only thing that results from it is relationship between her and Rikka become worsen.

But then Toka noticed a boy who live a floor below her, that boy was also infected with chu2byo just like Rikka, but he was able to recover from it. What's more, both he and Rikka attend the same HS. And that’s when Toka found a new hope within Yuuta. She seems to believe that Yuuta, as a former hardcore chu2byo patient, can relate with Rikka in the way she was unable to do and might be able to help Rikka in her recovery. I believe that’s her intention and the reason why she wants Yuuta to be there for Rikka. One thing I don’t think she has taken into account is how their relationship can develop into a romance. I can’t picture her taking it well should her younger sister start dating a boy.

[Seihai]

@teja208
I hope you allow me to reply to your post.

I also disagree with Touka's methods to deal with Rikka. Violence didn't exactly worsen their relationship, only keep it stagnant though. Ironically, the ladle symbolizes one of the only things with which she can show her love for Rikka by cooking something nice for her every day. In any case, how do you alternatively suggest Touka to express her concerns if you think she expresses them wrongly?

Whether she wouldn't have given a damn if she wasn't her sister isn't really worth thinking about. She is her sister and she clearly cares about her, that's it.

And besides the fact that she probably did pity Rikka, she also sympathized with her and even empathized with her obvious sadness about the loss of their father. That's basically why she acted the way she did to prevent her from going to their old house and all, no? I'm not exactly defending Touka here btw. If Rikka wanted to go, she should have been allowed to. Still, especially from Touka's POV, there's nothing wrong in wanting to prevent more salt to the wound of Rikka's heart.

I don't think Touka fails to love Rikka for who she is. She is jealous of Yuuta for being able to spend and befriend Rikka because she barely gets off the hook herself working all day and not even having a lot of time for herself. She would surely care more for Rikka if 1) she had the time to and 2) she knew how to cure Rikka's trauma.

The way I interpret Touka tying Yuuta into this mess to help Rikka recover is how I believe that the very fact that she calls for Yuuta's aid is not an act of pushing a problem to another person but simply to get the support to solve the problem, which in and of itself is a way to express Touka's love for Rikka. So, yeah, I believe while Touka's methods to deal with Rikka are a bit controversial she is still trying her best to care for Rikka and I personally see nothing wrong with how she does it.

[Goggen]

Originally Posted by TimeSkip

Well, I don't know about the first one because the cause was not shown.

The second one, Rikka brought the cat although she knew that Toka was allergic to it.

Actaully, I'll just stop here. I don't have time to go into every scene. I just put it simple here.

To me Toka is a responsible, mature, and caring person. She would not resort to violent unless she was provoked. After a long day from work, why would she want to pick a fight with Rikka unless Rikka has done something to provoke her.

I'm not saying Rikka did nothing to provoke her. Rikka's chuunibyou is what provokes her. I agree with you to some extent, I only took issue with your statement that "Rikka always starts the fights", which just isn't the case. Touka is the one who resorts to violence.

Understand, I am not hating on Touka. It's not like I think she's some sadistic monster who beats her little sister for fun. But she's also not some kind of saint. "Responsible and mature" adults do not blackmail high school kids into doing their bidding, for one thing.

As for her relationship with Rikka - Touka means well. She's not being intentionally cruel. She is just someone who has been handed this incredibly difficult and delicate situation, and she's trying to handle it as best she can.

Unfortunately, she's going about it the wrong way. She must have been suffering after their fathers death as well, but she has closed herself off from it emotionally, and expects Rikka to do the same - which just doesn't work for her. Her prescription of slap in the face, kick to the arm and a dose of cold "grow the hell up!" just isn't what Rikka needs.

Originally Posted by Vanish

In any case, how do you alternatively suggest Touka to express her concerns if you think she expresses them wrongly?

I don't know, maybe she could try smiling once in a while? Or a kind greeting when they meet instead of a cold stare and a "you behave now, or else!"? Or just some kind of affirmation that she still has one caring family member left in the world who won't die or abandon her?

[Mahou]

Originally Posted by Goggen

I don't know, maybe she could try smiling once in a while? Or a kind greeting when they meet instead of a cold stare and a "you behave now, or else!"? Or just some kind of affirmation that she still has one caring family member left in the world who won't die or abandon her?

Or the classic and good old hug, for instance . If that's too much than a gentle pat on the head with the words "You did well in trying cope with father's death" or any kind of soothing/encouraging words. In the world of fiction an (emotional)/tearful hug between sisters solved a handful problems or misunderstandings which were based on an inital "discrepancy" where person A didn't know how to deal with the other person (correctly). In this case Touka didn't know it any better and could only resort to her own - limited - measures.

[Goggen]

Originally Posted by Mahou

Or the classic and good old hug, for instance . If that's too much than a gentle pat on the head with the words "You did well in trying cope with father's death" or any kind of soothing/encouraging words. In the world of fiction an (emotional)/tearful hug between sisters solved a handful problems or misunderstandings which were based on an inital "discrepancy" where person A didn't know how to deal with the other person (correctly). In this case Touka didn't know it any better and could only resort to her own - limited - measures.

Well, realistically it's probably not that simple but... Well, Rikka is lonely and stuff. A little bit of encouragement might go a long way.

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by Goggen

I don't know, maybe she could try smiling once in a while? Or a kind greeting when they meet instead of a cold stare and a "you behave now, or else!"? Or just some kind of affirmation that she still has one caring family member left in the world who won't die or abandon her?

Indeed, she comes off as a rather harsh and cold-hearted person. I guess that's just part of who she is.

The thing is: how's she supposed to do the 'right' thing? It's easier said than done. She has gone through the same things Rikka has been through, she lived alone till Rikka showed up and has been working day in and day out just to get by the day, all while trying to shut off her own emotions in order to grow up. All of that (and more) formed the personality she has now, and being an "adult", it's rather hard to change the way you act and think. The way she reacted towards their father's death worked for her (unless she hides something herself), so naturally she would try to make Rikka adapt to that, yet she fell back on Chuunibyou which is already troublesome to deal with itself.

I still don't think the way she treats Rikka is wrong per se, because to me that's almost like saying that she's wrong for who she is. However if you said that it's not good, then I totally agree. Then again that's where Yuuta (and eventually the rest unless they stay comedy relief) comes into play, right? In fact, Yuuta is quite amazing for playing such a straight man after having conquered his own Chuunibyou. Add the recent relationship development and there you go.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Touka herself will be changed by Yuuta once she realizes that his way of handling things is much better. However that too is just speculation (more like anticipation).

[relentlessflame]

Regarding Touka, I would just add one more thing. Touka's way of grieving was to shut out her emotions and just "move on" (because that's what she thinks adults do), and every time she sees Rikka acting the way she does it reminds her of exactly what she herself is running from. If Rikka would just get over her chuunibyou it would help Touka forget! So basically Touka is lying to herself by thinking that Rikka is the only one who hasn't fully grieved the loss of their parents, and her annoyance at Rikka is the proof. Both of them need to accept their need to grieve.

(This whole show is trying to remind us that adults are mostly just kids in grown-ups' clothing, acting the way they do because it's expedient or because that's what they're expected to do.)

[Goggen]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Regarding Touka, I would just add one more thing. Touka's way of grieving was to shut out her emotions and just "move on" (because that's what she thinks adults do), and every time she sees Rikka acting the way she does it reminds her of exactly what she herself is running from. If Rikka would just get over her chuunibyou it would help Touka forget! So basically Touka is lying to herself by thinking that Rikka is the only one who hasn't fully grieved the loss of their parents, and her annoyance at Rikka is the proof. Both of them need to accept their need to grieve.

My thoughts exactly. Touka has tears in her eyes when she's yelling at Rikka, and I don't think it's from Rikka giving her a hard time. Rikka is, by her refusal to follow along with Touka's way of handling the loss, inadvertedly forcing Touka to touch on emotions she's been trying to supress. That is what Touka's real problem is.

[teja208]

Originally Posted by Vanish

@teja208
I hope you allow me to reply to your post.

No problem, I'm actually glad someone reply.

Regarding how Toka supposed to behave, I do agree with Goggen on that matter, but I also agree with you that part of her character flaw is preventing Toka from being honest with herself and people she deeply cares about. We can't really say for sure as to why she became like that. Maybe she was born with that kind of personality, maybe it's her way of coping with her father's death, or maybe it's due to influence of her grandfather. Who knows, there are numerous possible interpretations.

In most anime, it is common for elder sister character to be written as either gentie caring type or the cool aloft type. Touka happens to be the latter which is unfortunate because this type usually has a hard time communicating their true feelings and their actions seem to almost always giving out the wrong massage. Rikka is the one getting the wrong massage in this case. I do agree with you that Toka has her own ways of expressing her love like cooking lunch for Rikka, but aside from that with how very little time she can have with Rikka, she seems to be spending most of them chasing Rikka around with a ladle (see intro of ep. 2).

Just to be clear, I'm not saying all this because I dislike Toka or that she's a horrible sister or anything like that. There is nothing wrong about her, that's just how her character was written, and I just want to share some of my interpretation about them.

[Shimapan]

Originally Posted by Vanish

Indeed, she comes off as a rather harsh and cold-hearted person. I guess that's just part of who she is.

Yes, Touka does come off as rather harsh and cold-hearted indeed, definitely not a caring older sister. She's obviously quite inept at handling Rikka's Chuunibyou and frequently beats Rikka, either with her hands like this episode, or with her ladle as in previous episodes - I don't know what's worse.
I bet Touka's frequent beatings only made Rikka's chuunibyou even worse, and makes Rikka run away often and antagonize her.
The only one who understand Rikka is at first Yuuta, and then also the other club members. Touka seems to see Yuuta more and more as a solution for her Rikka problem, who can help her to rid herself more and more of that annoying deadweight she regards her as - the more time Rikka spends with Yuuta and the club, the more Touka is not bogged down by her anymore.

The trip was also totally mishandled by Touka. She already enlisted Yuuta so she won't have to deal with Rikka as much, but she's still handling the situation very poorly, and at the end she's just beating up Rikka once again. It was good that Yuuta steeped in to stop the beating, who knows how long Touka would've still continued it.
Understandably, Rikka can't bear it anymore and runs away. It's good that Yuuta went after her and consoled her, before she could have a breakdown or do something stupid.
I hope the relationship between Rikka and Yuuta gets ever more intense, Rikka really deserves it after all her hardship. More time with Yuuta means also she's away from Touka more, which is just all the better for Rikka.