Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

And this is placed after seeing Kotomi-chan driving on the right hand side of the road in a right hand drive car (assumed to be in America using an imported car).

Unless that car is British

- Tak

[Ithekro]

Even if it is British, I'm assuming she imported the car because she's driving on the right side of the road rather than the left side of the road. It is normal procedure to have the driver closest to the oncoming traffic in many countries. The British drive on the left side of the road and have right hand drives, thus the driver is closest to the traffic. In America the cars drive on the right side of the road and the driver is on the left hand side of the car, thus closest to the traffic.

Kotomi is driving on the right side of the road (double yellow line I believe, so she's not passing anyone), and driving a car with right hand drive. She is farthest away from oncoming traffic, which is not standard practice in many countries.

Plus in Japan, one drives on the Left hand side of the road, just as they do in the United Kingdom.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Even if it is British, I'm assuming she imported the car because she's driving on the right side of the road rather than the left side of the road. It is normal procedure to have the driver closest to the oncoming traffic in many countries. The British drive on the left side of the road and have right hand drives, thus the driver is closest to the traffic. In America the cars drive on the right side of the road and the driver is on the left hand side of the car, thus closest to the traffic.

Well, that is what I said regarding the car, it must be British for it to have the steering wheel on the right hand side.

Although in that scene, I assume the producers forgot about the little detail where Americans have their steering wheel on the left hand side.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Plus in Japan, one drives on the Left hand side of the road, just as they do in the United Kingdom.

Interestingly enough, many import cars in Japan (particularly German imports) have the steering wheel on the left hand side. Nonetheless, standard Japanese traffic procedures apply.

- Tak

[Yukinokesshou]

Originally Posted by Tak

Well, that is what I said regarding the car, it must be British for it to have the steering wheel on the right hand side.

... Or Japanese. Wouldn't that be more logical? . Oh well, who cares.

[Ushio]

Originally Posted by milkmandan

KyoAni trying their very best (i'd say did a damn good job too) to make an anime adaptation of the game. You didn't need an long explanation to understand why things happened the way they did.
Not trying to say people are stupid, but it was pretty easy to understand. :\
the explanations just helped in the ['why'] aspect of the ending.
playing the game first helps.

Yeah, they did their best, and I applaud them for that - but personally, it didn't affect me at all. I NEEDED those long explanations to fully understand. The 'easy to understand' part eluded me. Playing the game first helps, true, but you can't expect everyone to go in that order, heh. =x

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Ushio

Yeah, they did their best, and I applaud them for that - but personally, it didn't affect me at all. I NEEDED those long explanations to fully understand. The 'easy to understand' part eluded me. Playing the game first helps, true, but you can't expect everyone to go in that order, heh. =x

I agree that some needed it to fully understand the ending since I admit that I had to do some research here as well to really understand the ending. The only thing is that some people don't seem to put the effort in to try and comprehend the ending and they come and begin to complain about it when they haven't done any research.

As for the ending of the series, it really just seems to me that he used the orb of light that he received after accepting the facts about his father. Basically he was exposed to the same miracle as Akio when Nagisa was close to death. That's the simplest way to explain the ending, unless I'm mistaken.

[Frostydrops]

Originally Posted by Tak

Then stop watching episode 22 and end at 21. Nobody is pointing a gun at you and go "watch 22".

Episode 22 is the canon, true end to the game. It is simply a reward after Tomoya had gone through great lengths grating the happiness of others.

- Tak

Wow thats a good suggestion..But may i know how on earth am i supposed to predict the contents of episode 22 in order to avoid watching it? Im not the sort who goes around looking at spoilers before watching an episode if thats what you meant.

Originally Posted by Ushio

I wouldn't say terrible ending, but I have to agree with you, somewhat. I don't really feel like going through looong explanations on why the happy ending is justified; I watch the anime for the anime, nothing else. Eh. If anything, it had more of an impact in the game than the anime (didn't affect me at all in the anime, even if I knew and read everything), but eh. :v

Agreed. I understand from what Proto posted (Thanks btw) that episode 22 was more of a fanservice to those who played the game. But there was really no need for them to pull it off at the end of the anime series, when non of this stuff has happened prior to episode 22. An explanation episode before 22 would be nice, and would definitely make the ending much easier to swallow.

Im sure those of you who played the game and knew what was going on loved it. I would really have liked to read the link Proto provided before watching episode 22. But i didnt, in the end i had no idea what was going on and just felt like i was ***** slapped by the ending (Especially after the climatic ending of episode 21).

I imagine i am getting alot of hate for my whining here, so i guess i will stop, have a good day.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Frostydrops

Agreed. I understand from what Proto posted (Thanks btw) that episode 22 was more of a fanservice to those who played the game. But there was really no need for them to pull it off at the end of the anime series, when non of this stuff has happened prior to episode 22. An explanation episode before 22 would be nice, and would definitely make the ending much easier to swallow.

Im sure those of you who played the game and knew what was going on loved it. I would really have liked to read the link Proto provided before watching episode 22. But i didnt, in the end i had no idea what was going on and just felt like i was ***** slapped by the ending (Especially after the climatic ending of episode 21).

I imagine i am getting alot of hate for my whining here, so i guess i will stop, have a good day.

To be honest, it's not really so much the complaining, it's really just more of how you present yourself. If you didn't like the ending, that's fine but as long as you explain why but you didn't really look up the meaning on your part, so you can only fault yourself for that. I haven't played any of the Clannad games but the ending didn't bother me at all.

For the area that I put in bold, I hope you know that during the series there was a lot of scenes where they exposed to us the "Illusionary girl" and the robot that was with her most of the time, so it's not fair to say that none of it happened when it's been going on throughout the series. At first, none of those scenes made a lot of sense (at least to me) since it felt kind of awkward, but little by little we got to see that the anime was being portrayed realistically as well as "mystically" for lack of a better word. We were introduced to the whole mystical aspect of the series when we learned what Fuko really was, which I'm sure you can interpret on your own. Simply put, Fuko was a manifestation of her own desires for her sister to be happy even when she can't physically be with her. Those episodes in the first season kind of introduced us to those "mystical" aspects of the anime and in the final episode of After Story, it explained what the "Illusionary World" actually was. If you were paying attention to Kotomi's arc during the first season, that was another indication of what we were to expect. I think they did a wonderful job an conveying these messages and they certainly didn't leave us oblivious to this aspect of the plot.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

The only thing is that some people don't seem to put the effort in to try and comprehend the ending and they come and begin to complain about it when they haven't done any research.

Do people need to do a research to say what they think about an episode they just watched? What if the opinion in question doesn't change after said research? Would you be able to tell the difference?

A person could ultimately end up posting the same thing, even after reading and/or rewatching everything; As it is, I feel that people here are trying a little too hard to convice everybody to rewatch the show, as if that alone will ultimately lead them to change their negative opinion about the ending.

Personally, I am glad I decided to read this thread in particular (don't always do it). I have read the explanations provided here and I feel they may help me understand the events leading to the end a bit better. (once I decide to watch everything again)

At the same time, I may still end up disliking some things; If I come here some weeks later and people say I am just complaining with my posts, then it would be a little too obvious for me than this thread is just a case of "Please don't say anything bad about my dear show,..... or else!".

EDIT:

Something else I wish to add...

Just watch this final episode :

11/10 yes my thoughts didn't fall apart ! When i saw the title i expected a happy ending and Ushio was alive ! But its better , Nagisa is alive too
Don't understand very well with the other world but its was Tomoya's delusions or something like that .
Glad for the ending .

This is a post from a few pages back.

Now, if not explaining oneself properly is the cause for people's reactions, then I have to wonder why similar (but positive) post are not treated equally. Why an axplanation is not given by others and why the post in itself is never questioned.

*Don't have nothing against the poster in question, btw. I am just using it as an example. I removed the name to avoid dragging people against their will.

[Frostydrops]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

To be honest, it's not really so much the complaining, it's really just more of how you present yourself. If you didn't like the ending, that's fine but as long as you explain why but you didn't really look up the meaning on your part, so you can only fault yourself for that. I haven't played any of the Clannad games but the ending didn't bother me at all.

That is precisely my problem. I have to do research in order to fully enjoy the ending? As you can see in my previous post, im not a fan of spoilers at all. And i would probably meet some while researching. When an anime doesnt properly explain itself, im pretty sure its not my fault.

I understand that "Key"'s series of anime has always have a mystery feel to them, and they like to keep some things unexplained. Kanon and Air has this, yet they are still enjoyable as they give you enough just to advance with the plot. The unexplained is fun to look up afterwards, and they do not affect my enjoyment of the anime at all.

Clannad however, just expects you to understand everything at the end of episode 21 and slaps you with its fantastic ending that is episode 22, which is so abrupt i that i can see no flow between episode 21 and 22 at all.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

Do people need to do a research to say what they think about an episode they just watched? What if the opinion in question doesn't change after said research? Would you be able to tell the difference?

A person could ultimately end up posting the same thing, even after reading and/or rewatching everything; As it is, I feel that people here are trying a little too hard to convice everybody to rewatch the show, as if that alone will ultimately lead them to change their negative opinion about the ending.

Personally, I am glad I decided to read this thread in particular (don't always do it). I have read the explanations provided here and I feel they may help me understand the events leading to the end a bit better. (once I decide to watch everything again)

At the same time, I may still end up disliking some things; If I come here some weeks later and people say I am just complaining with my posts, then it would be a little too obvious for me than this thread is just a case of "Please don't say anything bad about my dear show,..... or else!".

You've completely misconstrued the point I was trying to get across. You can dislike any part of an anime all you like as long as you explain yourself properly, you can't justify someone saying it was a "terrible ending" because they didn't understand it. The ending itself pretty much explained a lot and the pacing of the show should have helped make things better but it seems that some don't bother to try and comprehend it when the show itself did a good job at slowly exposing it's meaning. You're last sentence is irrelevant, I don't see what you're trying to prove with that since no one will threaten you because of something you didn't like. It's simply trolling.

Originally Posted by Frostydrops

That is precisely my problem. I have to do research in order to fully enjoy the ending? As you can see in my previous post, im not a fan of spoilers at all. And i would probably meet some while researching. When an anime doesnt properly explain itself, im pretty sure its not my fault.

I understand that "Key"'s series of anime has always have a mystery feel to them, and they like to keep some things unexplained. Kanon and Air has this, yet they are still enjoyable as they give you enough just to advance with the plot. The unexplained is fun to look up afterwards, and they do not affect my enjoyment of the anime at all.

Clannad however, just expects you to understand everything at the end of episode 21 and slaps you with its fantastic ending that is episode 22, which is so abrupt i that i can see no flow between episode 21 and 22 at all.

Apparently you didn't read my post in it's entirety since you've missed what I said. The problem is that the anime did a very good job at explaining itself but you seem to have missed it, now I don't know who can be at fault there but at least I know it's not the anime.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

You've completely misconstrued the point I was trying to get across. You can dislike any part of an anime all you like as long as you explain yourself properly,

And who decides what is a proper explanation and what is not? I could very well explain how I come to a certain conclusion, and yet, If people don't like it, am I supposed to explain myself even more to get their approval?

I though the whole ending was horrible!

I actually think of that as a very valid explanation. It may be short, but it clearly tells me that the person did not liked the ending. From there, it's just a matter of how everyone looks at said post. I am fine with it, you are not. That in itself doesn't say the explanation is proper or not, it just says that some people are fine with it and some are not.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

you can't justify someone saying it was a "terrible ending" because they didn't understand it. The ending itself pretty much explained a lot and the pacing of the show should have helped make things better but it seems that some don't bother to try and comprehend it when the show itself did a good job at slowly exposing it's meaning.

To come to the conclusion that the ending was outright terrible because things were hard to understand is just one of many opinions one could have at the end. What you or I think of said comment is just our personal opinion on the matter.

Oh, and Clannad is not a bulletproof show. As I said before, the ending could still be disliked, even if you understand everything. Plus, you can't really say (only guess) that they didn't try to understand it. Because it's perfect to you, doesn't mean it's perfect for others.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

You're last sentence is irrelevant, I don't see what you're trying to prove with that since no one will threaten you because of something you didn't like. It's simply trolling.

Really!?

You mean they won't send me to flame inferno?, that I won't be called a rabid fan? a Troll? I fully understand that some of this are just jokes, yet, they can end up hurting regardless; Or worst, they can end up making people have second thoughs about posting here.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

It's obvious that the majority here seems to like the ending and I don't see the point in questioning a post that is positive. Really to be honest, I don't see what you're trying to prove here.

The majority liking something doesn't turn anything into fact. A President is elected because he's popular with the masses, not because he is the best choice.

Also, if you believe a negative post can be shallow, then you must believe that a positive one could be too; If not, then you are simply not being fair.

[Proto]

Oh c'mon, we are discussing a moot point here. It's true that anyone is allowed to post their thought on the episode in whatever form they see fit, within reasonable limits. That much is accepted. Posting the reasoning behind your opinion, while certainly desirable if what you want to do is engaging in a meaningful discussion, is not really necessary for a board like this that is primarily based on personal and subjective opinions, specially if the only want to do is that, just exposing your opinion.

Let's not get at each other throats for the sake of a meta argument

[Nosauz]

Well the point is most of the stuff that leads up to the miracle are in the show, and their pretty obvious. If you felt the miracle blindsided you well that just means you didn't pay attention, or really misinterpreted some stuff. The miracle was an obvious outcome, especially with the illusory world, or else what was the point of that whole plot point? It would have served no purpose, its meaning litteraly stripped since its purpose was to be a respeticle for the towns happiness. The main problem with this was people came into clannad thinking slice of life, and not really the fantasty aspect,

Spoiler for heavy duty Kanon spoilers, approach with caution:

unlike kanon where you get the chibi coma girls running around town say uguu, foxes turning into lonely girls, and a girl who kills spirits,

and once that expectation was built in for some they never got over it. If you didn't pay attention to show, things are going to be confusing there no doubt about. Kyoto Anime did down play the fantastical nature of the show, but it was still there, there was still a metric shit ton of fantasy and to not see it coming makes some of us scratch out heads.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

To come to the conclusion that the ending was outright terrible because things were hard to understand is just one of many opinions one could have at the end. What you or I think of said comment is just our personal opinion on the matter.

The show since season I had already provided you with an overview in regards to the outlook of what this franchise might look like. Fuuko's arc was the best example. It is not as if the show managed to throw things at you out of the blue, but it appeared as if you were completely and totally oblivious to what this show built up since season I. That is nobody's fault, that is yours, for I highly doubt you did not see at least a speck of it coming in episode 22.

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

Oh, and Clannad is not a bulletproof show[/B]. As I said before, the ending could still be disliked, even if you understand everything. Plus, you can't really say (only guess) that they didn't try to understand it. Because it's perfect to you, doesn't mean it's perfect for others.

Nobody here said it was a perfect show, neither Dex nor I nor anyone else made a similar statement. A lot of episodes in Clannad could have been considered as worthless fillers, but we are not debating minor technicalities or other finer points. As far as I am concerned, the main plot is straight and to the point.

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

You mean they won't send me to flame inferno?, that I won't be called a rabid fan? a Troll? I fully understand that some of this are just jokes, yet, they can end up hurting regardless; Or worst, they can end up making people have second thoughs about posting here.

Why throw you to a flaming inferno? How boring? If it was up to me, I'd tie you up and throw you onto the train tracks where you will first have your legs sliced off, and then I will throw the rest of your tattered body into a pot of acid, where you shall slowly burn to death. Only then I will be satisfied and call it a day.

No, not really.

But guess what, this is a community/public forum. You post something here, and they will all come under scrutiny of some sort. Mine is no exception. Inevitably, there will be a popular opinion, and those in the minority leagues might feel slightly uncomfortable. Although if that prevents you from posting, all I have to say is, too fucking bad. While we follow a set of rules and regulations while posting here, we are not here to make this forum suitable to your likings.

- Tak

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by Proto

Let's not get at each other throats for the sake of a meta argument

While it may seem otherwise, I do not plan to keep jumping on you guys for every little thing posted here. I have never been the type to argue for the sake of arguing, but I do sometimes feel like posting my thoughs...... just like everybody else.

@Nosauz & Tak:

You see guys, it's not a matter of information, clues, hints or previous knowledge of the Clannad universe. It is a simple matter of not liking something.

Again, being aware of the events, the clues and the phantasy elements of the show will not turn everyone's opinion 180 degrees, at least not always. My personal take on this is that I would have prefered for Clannad to have no phantasy elements whatsoever.

And no, I am not asking for Nagisa to be six feet under at the end. Beyond it's obvious phantasy elements, it was the comedy, the slice of life and the romance that made this show so good a watch for me in the first place, and not so the already mentioned phantasy.

Originally Posted by Tak

But guess what, this is a community/public forum. You post something here, and they will all come under scrutiny of some sort. Mine is no exception. Inevitably, there will be a popular opinion, and those in the minority leagues might feel slightly uncomfortable. Although if that prevents you from posting, all I have to say is, too fucking bad. While we follow a set of rules and regulations while posting here, we are not here to make this forum suitable to your likings.
- Tak

You don't have too, really.

[Proto]

My personal take on this is that I would have prefered for Clannad to have no phantasy elements whatsoever.

Well, what can I say, you picked the wrong company to watch shows from

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by Proto

Well, what can I say, you picked the wrong company to watch shows from

Perhaps one could say that I approached this show from the wrong angle. Truly, beyond being enjoyable, I always though Clannad had a very relaxing air to it. Wich is not something that puts me on extra attention mode for sure.

As it is, reading the explanations here further push me towards not liking the phantasy element in Clannad.

Never had issues with this back at Kanon land, btw.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

And who decides what is a proper explanation and what is not? I could very well explain how I come to a certain conclusion, and yet, If people don't like it, am I supposed to explain myself even more to get their approval?

I though the whole ending was horrible!

I actually think of that as a very valid explanation. It may be short, but it clearly tells me that the person did not liked the ending. From there, it's just a matter of how everyone looks at said post. I am fine with it, you are not. That in itself doesn't say the explanation is proper or not, it just says that some people are fine with it and some are not.

To come to the conclusion that the ending was outright terrible because things were hard to understand is just one of many opinions one could have at the end. What you or I think of said comment is just our personal opinion on the matter.

Oh, and Clannad is not a bulletproof show. As I said before, the ending could still be disliked, even if you understand everything. Plus, you can't really say (only guess) that they didn't try to understand it. Because it's perfect to you, doesn't mean it's perfect for others.

Really!?

You mean they won't send me to flame inferno?, that I won't be called a rabid fan? a Troll? I fully understand that some of this are just jokes, yet, they can end up hurting regardless; Or worst, they can end up making people have second thoughs about posting here.

The majority liking something doesn't turn anything into fact. A President is elected because he's popular with the masses, not because he is the best choice.

Also, if you believe a negative post can be shallow, then you must believe that a positive one could be too; If not, then you are simply not being fair.

It seems that you still didn't understand what my posts are about. I'm assuming that this thread is for the discussion of the final episode of Clannad: AF, and if someone comes in here saying "it's a terrible ending because I didn't understand," then the statement is too vague for me to discuss. I'm bringing it to their attention in order to create a more relevant topic for discussion and luckily the person was kind enough to explain a little bit better on why they thought it was a "terrible ending," hence my explanation in my earlier post about how the plot did a good job at pacing the exposure of the "fantasy" (this is a much better word to use here ) side of the story. It's a public forum and if someone posts a vague opinion, then I'm sure it's well within my rights to try and create a subject worth discussing since this is the reason I'm here.

Even if a positive opinion can be shallow, I don't feel it's necessary to discuss something that the majority already agree with, there's no point in discussing.

[velvet]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

It seems that you still didn't understand what my posts are about. I'm assuming that this thread is for the discussion of the final episode of Clannad: AF, and if someone comes in here saying "it's a terrible ending because I didn't understand," then the statement is too vague for me to discuss. I'm bringing it to their attention in order to create a more relevant topic for discussion and luckily the person was kind enough to explain a little bit better on why they thought it was a "terrible ending," hence my explanation in my earlier post about how the plot did a good job at pacing the exposure of the "fantasy" (this is a much better word to use here ) side of the story. It's a public forum and if someone posts a vague opinion, then I'm sure it's well within my rights to try and create a subject worth discussing since this is the reason I'm here.

Even if a positive opinion can be shallow, I don't feel it's necessary to discuss something that the majority already agree with, there's no point in discussing.

Agreed. Maybe we sticks our nose a little too often.
But when comments such as,

"xxx is bad/terrible. How come the story went that way after doing that. WTF blablabla..."
surfaces in a thread for discussing xxx,
is it wrong for us to kindly offer a new PoV so the person in question can actually enjoyed it? Or at least helped a little understanding
(though I was guilty for bursting into high sarcasm too sometimes ago )

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

You mean they won't send me to flame inferno?, that I won't be called a rabid fan? a Troll?

I thought rabid fans are thrown at the direction of the defender, usually.

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

Also, if you believe a negative post can be shallow, then you must believe that a positive one could be too; If not, then you are simply not being fair.

So we should question in each and every post?
Actually, the positive posters being in majority is not helping
Gotta agree with that.