Danganronpa The Animation: General discussion thread

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Clarste

You know, I guess this discussion happened a while ago but I kind of like the fact that most of the investigation was skipped. It makes everyone involved seem less stupid, since Naegi isn't failing to piece together obvious clues and we don't need to present people's own testimony to them during the trial. It simply makes sense that some of them will have discovered things that Naegi missed, and will bring them up during trial. It's not like he's a master detective or anything.

That's awfully convenient how you can assume everyone found all the clues needed because it wasn't shown on screen the same way you assume Naegi didn't find them because it wasn't shown onscreen.

If you want characters other than the protagonist to be more competent, then instead of making the protagonist more incompetent, how about showing the other characters being... you know, competent by showing them finding the clues Naegi couldn't find onscreen?


I understand the time constraints and all, but I fail to see how the exclusion of good work done by the protagonist supports the argument that the other characters did it for him.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Clarami

I already asked a couple of moderators regarding this case, but haven't replied back to me on that for some reason. Whether they hate me or they just don't plan to take my suggestion into consideration, who knows. I'll ask another mod later regarding this because this can potential lead into other topics of discussion if it becomes its own subject/topics of interest.

Anime series get their own forum when there is enough discussion to merit one. I emphasis the word Anime, as only discussion in the anime thread are taken into consideration. Mods around here don't like it when people keep pestering them to make a forum.

[Kirito]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Anime series get their own forum when there is enough discussion to merit one. I emphasis the word Anime, as only discussion in the anime thread are taken into consideration. Mods around here don't like it when people keep pestering them to make a forum.

Granted but at the same time it doesn't hurt to make a suggestion every now and them. I mean, this type of series can have broad topics of discussion and at the fact that there are people who have played the game, and have shared their views and points when it comes to said adaptation. Whether or not it's a pointless thing I'm doing, as a user I can at least make a suggestion. Whether it gets accepted or not, oh well, but like I said it doesn't hurt to ask or suggest something.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

That's awfully convenient how you can assume everyone found all the clues needed because it wasn't shown on screen the same way you assume Naegi didn't find them because it wasn't shown onscreen.

If you want characters other than the protagonist to be more competent, then instead of making the protagonist more incompetent, how about showing the other characters being... you know, competent by showing them finding the clues Naegi couldn't find onscreen?


I understand the time constraints and all, but I fail to see how the exclusion of good work done by the protagonist supports the argument that the other characters did it for him.

Because we only have so much time to tell the story?

I realize that this diminishes the "fair play mystery" aspect of the story but honestly in the game the mysteries were hardly mysterious at all since they spoon-fed everything to you. An anime certainly doesn't need a "tutorial" case where the solution is way too obvious. Given these restraints, it makes sense to focus on the storytelling itself rather than the mystery, and the best place to do that is in the Class Trial. That's where all the drama and intrigue and twists happen. So instead of "I talked to X about Y so Z", you just have X talk about Y on her own. Does it really matter if Naegi is in a position to solve the mystery on his own?

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Because we only have so much time to tell the story?

I realize that this diminishes the "fair play mystery" aspect of the story but honestly in the game the mysteries were hardly mysterious at all since they spoon-fed everything to you. An anime certainly doesn't need a "tutorial" case where the solution is way too obvious. Given these restraints, it makes sense to focus on the storytelling itself rather than the mystery, and the best place to do that is in the Class Trial. That's where all the drama and intrigue and twists happen. So instead of "I talked to X about Y so Z", you just have X talk about Y on her own. Does it really matter if Naegi is in a position to solve the mystery on his own?

It's funny. The implication is that you've played the game and yet your posts are so very contrary to that. If you've actually played it you should really make that clear by getting your facts straight.

Further more, in properties like these, Phoenix Wright, Ghost Trick, Detective Conan, etc., the mystery is solved by the viewers as the clues are collected. Not during the trial and the accusation. If you haven't solved the mystery by the time the trial or accusation has occurred then you've effectively failed to solve the mystery in time. Now granted, in the case of a trial there can be more information that comes up, and even a twist that turns the whole case upside-down. In anime and games like this a twist is always a popular choice. If that happens then naturally you wouldn't be able to draw the proper conclusion until mid-trial or accusation. However, the clues are every bit as important then as they were before. Evidence is very important.

[Nvis]

Monobear knows if it's a suicide or not due to the cameras.

Poor my Sayaka....

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Traece

It's funny. The implication is that you've played the game and yet your posts are so very contrary to that. If you've actually played it you should really make that clear by getting your facts straight.

Further more, in properties like these, Phoenix Wright, Ghost Trick, Detective Conan, etc., the mystery is solved by the viewers as the clues are collected. Not during the trial and the accusation. If you haven't solved the mystery by the time the trial or accusation has occurred then you've effectively failed to solve the mystery in time. Now granted, in the case of a trial there can be more information that comes up, and even a twist that turns the whole case upside-down. In anime and games like this a twist is always a popular choice. If that happens then naturally you wouldn't be able to draw the proper conclusion until mid-trial or accusation. However, the clues are every bit as important then as they were before. Evidence is very important.

It's important if you're playing a game. Although honestly you don't need to have the entire mystery solved, you just need to know how each clue interacts with the facts so you can press the "Objection!" button at the right things. Honestly, the key details are often intentionally hidden precisely so they can maintain drama throughout the scene (forcing you to fit the new evidence into what you already know and filling in the details).

Anyway, the point is that an anime doesn't need to make the case solvable. It's simply a different medium. Now, traditionally murder mysteries have always had an obligation to "play fair" with the readers and give them the evidence they need, but the cases in this case are so simple that do so would remove the entire point of being a mystery? It was dumbed down so that the average player could solve it, but if the average viewer can solve it just as easily then it's simply a boring mystery. The solution to that is found in the drama and suspense of the Class Trial itself, which the anime obviously intends to emphasize. This was the same in Phoenix Wright: the investigations were really boring but the trials were funny and dramatic and awesome. People remember "Objection!" more than they do clicking on everything over and over again, don't they?

In short, this is not a game so I'm not expecting it to be exactly like the game. Because if it was it'd be bad.

[Nvis]

Now I am forced to root for Kyoko. Don't kill her this time.....

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Clarste

It's important if you're playing a game. Although honestly you don't need to have the entire mystery solved, you just need to know how each clue interacts with the facts so you can press the "Objection!" button at the right things. Honestly, the key details are often intentionally hidden precisely so they can maintain drama throughout the scene (forcing you to fit the new evidence into what you already know and filling in the details).

Anyway, the point is that an anime doesn't need to make the case solvable. It's simply a different medium. Now, traditionally murder mysteries have always had an obligation to "play fair" with the readers and give them the evidence they need, but the cases in this case are so simple that do so would remove the entire point of being a mystery? It was dumbed down so that the average player could solve it, but if the average viewer can solve it just as easily then it's simply a boring mystery. The solution to that is found in the drama and suspense of the Class Trial itself, which the anime obviously intends to emphasize. This was the same in Phoenix Wright: the investigations were really boring but the trials were funny and dramatic and awesome. People remember "Objection!" more than they do clicking on everything over and over again, don't they?

In short, this is not a game so I'm not expecting it to be exactly like the game. Because if it was it'd be bad.

You're not entirely wrong in that assessment. However, it goes without saying that there's a rather long-running and very popular mystery series that has hundreds of episodes of precedence here. You don't get that by being bad, for starters. Conan isn't that far off from Phoenix Wright or Dangan Ronpa, hence why I included the word "accusation" alongside "trial". The average episode of Detective Conan typically weighed the clues and the accusation as being roughly equal in importance. Generally a mixture of finding some clues, some of which are substantial in importance (and sometimes some of which are inconsequential at first glance), followed by combing through past and live testimonies to find a liar. In fact, from what I've seen that's the typical formula for the majority of Japanese murder mysteries on the anime and video game mediums.

Proposing that the brunt of the mystery should be placed in the trial is a bit strange with that having been said. When a character is searching for clues, the player or the viewers typically is eagerly awaiting every clue and expectation so that they can try to figure out the mystery before it's revealed. Additionally, when a new twist is introduced there then has to be a stall so that the viewer can wrap their head around it and fit it into place. Typically this is done via cliffhangers. The twist is revealed, and then the episode ends.

That having been said, I see no reason why they would choose to disobey that formula and instead elect to hold the trial as the focus of the series, as this is where all the information is gathered and delivered. Unless they have a trick up their sleeve for making this work, I see it going downhill.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Anyway, the point is that an anime doesn't need to make the case solvable. It's simply a different medium. Now, traditionally murder mysteries have always had an obligation to "play fair" with the readers and give them the evidence they need, but the cases in this case are so simple that do so would remove the entire point of being a mystery? It was dumbed down so that the average player could solve it, but if the average viewer can solve it just as easily then it's simply a boring mystery. The solution to that is found in the drama and suspense of the Class Trial itself, which the anime obviously intends to emphasize. This was the same in Phoenix Wright: the investigations were really boring but the trials were funny and dramatic and awesome. People remember "Objection!" more than they do clicking on everything over and over again, don't they?

In short, this is not a game so I'm not expecting it to be exactly like the game. Because if it was it'd be bad.

The trials in the Ace Attorney series are interesting not only because they are over the top, but because you also learn how pieces of evidence you in the audience find along with Phoenix Wright during the investigation fit together and why they fit together in the trial (...or you get a game over)

That is not the case here - the investigation is cut short, so the viewers are not given all the cards needed to figure out the winning hand.

Again, I don't see how the lack of evidence presented during the investigation suddenly makes the other characters more competent - for all we know, they should have the same number of cards as Naegi does because we are never shown a reason why they would find more.

Yet here you are telling me that's exactly what happened, and that everything the other characters present during the trials were properly found during a part of the investigation the viewers never saw? Your argument does not follow.


Instead, what you want suggests that they should have still shown an extensive investigation - just one where the others do more work.

Also, keep in mind that a murder mystery is not simply limited to finding the culprit, but why the person did it as well as the rest of the circumstances surrounding the murder. Just because naming the culprit is easy does not meaning explaining to others how and why it happened is, and as such it does not justify leaving out clues.

[Scarletknive]

Originally Posted by Clarami

Suicide is a no go because it's not the type of murder that Monobear is looking for. If that were the case then Monobear will simply just dismiss it and just continue monitoring the people alive until a murder actually happens.

Not really because if you check the room thoroughly it's evident that a struggle between her and the murderer did occur, and the fact that blunt force trauma came into effect also supports this fact. The doormats is to mislead people from the killer and point the finger at Makoto and the dying message is the key clue in finding out the killers identity.

All we can do is wait for when the trial gets underway next week. I have an idea who the killer might be, but need to go back and reevaluate what I know and what I've seen.

Who knows, maybe he can make the game more "interesting".

But yes, Suicide is out as just by looking at the the ripped clothes and 1 other evidence found at trash room, they imply that she was outside her room ("Naegi"'s room.) before the murder, and the murderer might have been the one who hit her. (This might explain the bruise on her hand.)

One question to Clarami: Wouldnt the dying message may give the impression that the killer wanted to reinforce the blame to Naegi. With the roomplate swapped and the dying message, they might give off the feeling that the killer really tried to push the blame on him.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Traece

That having been said, I see no reason why they would choose to disobey that formula and instead elect to hold the trial as the focus of the series, as this is where all the information is gathered and delivered. Unless they have a trick up their sleeve for making this work, I see it going downhill.

The reason is that they only have 13 episodes. Time is at a premium. It's not ideal, but it's better than the alternative (likewise cutting the class trial and therefore characterization/drama). This is a zero sum game on the part of the producers. They had to make choices of what to cut. What would have preferred them to cut?

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Again, I don't see how the lack of evidence presented during the investigation suddenly makes the other characters more competent - for all we know, they should have the same number of cards as Naegi does because we are never shown a reason why they would find more.

Why wouldn't they know more? We see them poking around in the room during the montage, and Naegi is hardly a master detective. Which is actually more than they ever did in the game. It makes it feel more like they care about their own life instead of sitting in the cafeteria waiting for you to talk to them so they can tell you what they witnessed.

The other things you suggest would involve taking the perspective away from Naegi. Which isn't really plausible in a mystery because you're supposed to start out suspecting everyone. Did you even think about that part at all? Naegi is the only one we know for sure is innocent because we're privy to his thoughts (unless he's schizophrenic or something).

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Clarste

The reason is that they only have 13 episodes. Time is at a premium. It's not ideal, but it's better than the alternative (likewise cutting the class trial and therefore characterization/drama). This is a zero sum game on the part of the producers. They had to make choices of what to cut. What would have preferred them to cut?

Cutting is only an issue if you do it incorrectly. They've cut out all the important bits and then moved on to the trial because they seem to think it's the main event when it very clearly is not.

It's really very simple. To do it correctly you weigh the amount of time spent on the clues or trial based on the case itself. You know, like any reasonable studio would do. Include the relevant and entertaining information. If you have to go barebones, you choose the best material available to you. The fact that they seem to think that the trial is their best material is strange. I'm not the only one who thinks that either. Imagine if you filmed "The Hunt for Red October" and took out all of the conversation about Sean Connery's character. Or if you fast-forwarded to the end of an episode of Detective Conan so all you see is: "SHE USED THE WIRE AND IT CUT HIS HEAD OFF ON THE TRAIN! JAAAAIIIIL!" No matter how dramatic or entertaining the trial may be, it's not exactly worth watching if all you see is the end result.

Keep in mind, I haven't even brought CSI into the equation. CSI pushes back the endgame to an extreme compared to these Japanese murder mysteries.

No matter how I look at it, shifting focus onto the trial doesn't make sense. Like I've said, if they continue to do this throughout the anime they'll be sorely disappointed in its results.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by Calca

This really needs it's own forum so we can discuss each case that comes up.

Originally Posted by Traece

Maybe it's just because of the number of locations DanganRonpa is available, but from what I've seen the number of people watching this show is extremely high. Higher than everything else I've seen.

Originally Posted by Clarami

I already asked a couple of moderators regarding this case, but haven't replied back to me on that for some reason. Whether they hate me or they just don't plan to take my suggestion into consideration, who knows. I'll ask another mod later regarding this because this can potential lead into other topics of discussion if it becomes its own subject/topics of interest.

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who had the idea of giving the series its own forum! Yeah, I think now's as good a time as any to make one thanks to all the exposure out there. Anyway, I already brought the subject up to Klashikari via PM, and this was the response he gave me:

That was already a suggestion I've made within the mod team. However, the decision doesn't pertain on me alone: should a majority agree to my suggestion, it will be created. Otherwise, we will have to deal with the series like any other.

In order not to leave things into an arbitrary forum environment, every sub forum candidate are subjects to several critera, and simply "high activity" isn't enough, although I believe DR in general have met several criteria already.

In other words, please be patient.

So yes, the idea IS being put under consideration. And hopefully we'll get a forum soon so we can separate all of the game talk from the anime discussion (I'm already a bit guilty of making one or two comparisons between them both myself, lol ).

[Calca]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who had the idea of giving the series its own forum! Yeah, I think now's as good a time as any to make one thanks to all the exposure out there. Anyway, I already brought the subject up to Klashikari via PM, and this was the response he gave me:





So yes, the idea IS being put under consideration. And hopefully we'll get a forum soon so we can separate all of the game talk from the anime discussion (I'm already a bit guilty of making one or two comparisons between them both myself, lol ).

Eh, I got monir to respond to me, he says he'll watch the anime. Hopefully him watching will show him that yes, there is a hell of a lot going on in this show.

[-Sho-]

So the idol & model are already dead....
What if Sayaka was the first one to attack the "guy" but end up dying instead...
At least , it was pretty clear that she faked her facade on Naive Naegi. My guess wasn't wrong

[hamazura]

Originally Posted by Kiltias

Spoiler for To Hamazura:

That certainly makes Yamada the Prime Suspect, though that sounds too easy for my taste especially since we need to know why the crystal ball is there.

Assuming Yasuhiro spreaks the truth, why would Yamada just take and drop it?

Unless they're accomplices, but Yasuhiro would have noticed if his Crystal Ball is lying there broken.

Anyway, you can't open the door to the burner without Yamada.

I feel like I'm missing something.

If the burner would be closer I'd have said you could reach through the slips but with 10m?
Wait wait.WaIT!
Could that be why the Crystal Ball is there?
Let's say you put the piece of Fabric around it and try to hit the Burner.Both pieces of evidence would
be erased.
Oh wait, the slips seems to slim to get something through.Crap.
If they'd be bigger I'd have said you could throw it if you have precision, reminding me of that Baseballer
(Forgot his name), but seeing the slips I don't see it as possible.
And I also don't see how the numbers fit a Baseballer.Like I said, they remind me more of Binary Codes.

So for now I go with either:
Yamada w/ Yasuhiro.
Baseballer, I keep in the back of my mind eventhough I find it rather unlikely, yet if wasn't Yamada w/ Yasuhiro getting to the burner past the gate means either throwing which is why a Baseballer fits the Bill (Though I don't see how anything is getting past the slip by throwing.If it'd be bigger maybe.) or having something very long though 10M?O.oWhat the hell would that be?

I feel rather lost.XD
All 3 seem rather unlikely to me but I dunno who else.

Spoiler for not spoiler dont worry:

Baseballer : Leon Kuwata
And fyi, the crystal ball CAN slip trough the door slip, even it looks like the slip is very small but... Yeah
Read carefully at the clue and you may not only guess the murder, but how to do the murder too, dont give up

[Traece]

In case you all missed this, our wonderful mod friend Klashikari compiled the information that you anime viewers are all missing because of the investigation butchering.

Here's that link. If you're interested in trying to figure it all out ahead of time you'll need this.

Beyond that the unfortunate thing is that without an ElectroID you can't view the student profiles (or the floor plan). Perhaps if this butchering continues to be an issue some people can be nice enough to infodump the floor plan.

Spoiler for Janitor info omitted from the episodes:

Edit: A little extra bit of info. Monokuma asked the prefect to choose people for trash duty. Yamada is the first person chosen to be the "janitor."

[hamazura]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

This one does seem to be quite simple.

Spoiler:

The way that the 1's were written with opposite strokes makes it look quite clearly like a capital N where the "ink" was too thin or not pressed hard enough, leaving the middle band mostly missing. And with that, the dying message changes from the number 11037 to the name LEON written upside-down. Then again, one must ask whether Maizono really survived to write this or whether the culprit used her blood to write it afterward in hopes that everyone would suspect Leon.

Anyway, I'm unsurprised but still angry that the first kill was a character I liked. Kill Macho (wo)Man, or Richie Rich, or Ms. Trap, or even Humpty Dumpty the doujin writer, but leave that one alone! Oh well, what's done is done and I suppose it was kind of obvious. Hope the next is a more annoying character, and seriously hope it's not so simple.

Dont worry... every time ur fav chara died, you will be super happy when the culprit executed

[Traece]

Originally Posted by hamazura

Dont worry... every time ur fav chara died, you will be super happy when the culprit executed

What if your favorite character is killed by another of your favorite characters? What do you do then?

I suspect, the answer is... DESPAIR

Edit: You know I realized now that the saddest thing about the lack of conversations with other characters is that it doesn't spur the borderline-inevitable "Waifu!" conversations. If you ever watch a stream of the game, "X is my waifu" all up and down. Especially funny when people decide that Maizono will be their waifu right off the bat.