AnimeSuki Forums

Avatar_notADV · 2009-07-25, 19:36

I don't buy the "Signum was once a person" idea.

It's not that it's impossible, just that joining with Agito doesn't imply it. It's not that the Knights have no Linker Core, it's that they don't have anything else! (At least, not when they were Knights.) Think about the scenes where they were absorbed into the Book of Darkness back in A's. The other characters just had their cores absorbed, but the Knights were actually destroyed by that process.

To me, the conclusion is that the Knights, if not in possession of a Linker Core the same as the other mages in the show, have something very analogous (and that it's a much more significant part of them than a Linker Core is to, say, Fate or Nanoha.) It's not even a stretch to say that whatever that is could interface with a Unison Device in the same way that a Linker Core does... especially given that both Hayate and Vita have achieved unison with Rein, so we know the process is at least similar.

Indeed, Zest was a good character.

LoweGear · 2009-07-25, 20:02

That line of logic doesn't really disprove the idea though, since you're talking about the Knights in their current state (aka as Guardian Knight programs), while the idea is about what they were before that. Of course the Guardian Knights would be affected differently from the other characters by the Book of Darkness, because their functions are tied directly to it. The idea is what were they before they became Guardian Knights - were they just wisps of nothingness before they were created and programmed, or were they once humans with their own lives who were "programmed" into the Book to serve as its Guardians? We don't have conclusive evidence either way, so for the moment, it's just "Devil's Proof".

DezoPenguin · 2009-07-25, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoweGear

That line of logic doesn't really disprove the idea though, since you're talking about the Knights in their current state (aka as Guardian Knight programs), while the idea is about what they were before that. Of course the Guardian Knights would be affected differently from the other characters by the Book of Darkness, because their functions are tied directly to it. The idea is what were they before they became Guardian Knights - were they just wisps of nothingness before they were created and programmed, or were they once humans with their own lives who were "programmed" into the Book to serve as its Guardians? We don't have conclusive evidence either way, so for the moment, it's just "Devil's Proof".

And if they were originally humans, were they the absorbed victims of the Book of Darkness, or the voluntary servants/guardians of the Tome of the Night Sky. Hm...there's probably a fic in the latter idea somewhere...

Jimmy C · 2009-07-25, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Which is true; we've seen that Rein-chan doesn't Unison particularly well with Vita or Signum, and Agito doesn't have a good connection to Zest.

Slight mistake on your part there. Rein Zwei does unison well with Vita and Signum. Agito mentioned it in ep18. I suspect the Book of Darkness makes adjustments to the Knights whenever it initializes for a new user.

If Agito was Signum's (the human original) Unison Device, I suspect she was never delivered to Signum before she was taken out by the Book. Because of how customized UDs are, she was probably left in storage afterwards until discovered by those researchers.

MeisterBabylon · 2009-07-26, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoweGear

And yes, I command you to write that AU now

I already have.

synaesthetic · 2009-07-27, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoweGear

And yes, I command you to write that AU now

I started thinking about it, and it grew and grew and grew and has incorporated aspects from not just Gundam 00 and MGLN, but several other stories as well. It's becoming ridiculous, but also at the same time oh so very awesome.

Working on the first chapter while I finish up "A Path Through Remembrance ~ 2nd phase."

So far this ultimate crossover includes elements, characters and plot fragments from a half-dozen anime, games or other fictional universes.

More info will be posted in the... well, I have no idea where this kind of whacked out project would even go.

Wild Goose · 2009-07-27, 23:35

put it in OC. They'd be more accepting of it there.

MeisterBabylon · 2009-07-28, 07:37

Do both, just in case it gets too hot in OC.

synaesthetic · 2009-07-28, 08:07

Some people take this stuff too seriously. But you cannot really argue with an idea like this. It will be epic and awesome.

stormturmoil · 2009-07-28, 12:49

Just to bring the 'Wolkenritter being human' thing back up regards Signum, something from StrikerS that may be of significance (or not...) is the fact that Signum introduces herself as Signum Needes; that is, she's acquired a last name...

now, where did that come from?

some possibilities:

1: She was once Human, and she always had it, but we never had occasion to hear it before then.

2: it was chosen for her or she chose it herself as part of the whole bureau-joining thing. Significant that it's not Hayate's last name, as you might expect.

3: She's got Married since A's! 'Needes' would then be the name of her Husband. (though this assumes that Midchildan or Belkan Marriages transfer the Husband's name to the Wife. If not, return to 1 and 2)

Jimmy C · 2009-07-28, 13:15

No, the subbers just mistranslated her rank. It was supposed to be 2nd Lt. Signnum.

stormturmoil · 2009-07-28, 13:39

Hah, and there was I beginning to wonder if al those Crack's Vice Makes in StrikerS Nano about Signum being a Submissive Uke might have been justified...

MeisterBabylon · 2009-07-28, 20:03

Oh god this incident just got me rolling the floor again... I've lost count how many times things being Lost in Translation have screwed us over.

D2 · 2009-08-19, 12:47

I asked this question in the Q&A section, but was suggested to bring it here: Is it possible for Velka cartridges to explode/detonate/react if exposed to extreme outside forces? ex. (magical blasts, hard strikes, etc.)

Aaron008R · 2009-08-19, 12:49

It would be weirder if they didn't. >_>
I don't see any reason for them to be indestructible little bullets that only releases energy when used properly. So why not? :3

Password · 2009-08-19, 17:17

We do have a precedent concentrated magic being explosive when their containers get damaged (see: the Relics, though a catridge explosion would definitely be a lot smaller <<)

AdmiralTigerclaw · 2009-08-21, 11:56

In my fic, I make them react rather... 'Excitedly', to microwave radiation.

Spoiler for Warning, High Energy Waveguide Tube:

Tabasco · 2009-08-21, 17:17

Heh.

The golden BB effect strikes again. I would agree though, it would take a fair amount to cause a breach in a cartridge, otherwise they wouldn't be safe to use, but they are after all designed for rapid energy discharge.

I think 'lithium battery failure on steroids' probably would cover the results.

AdmiralTigerclaw · 2009-08-21, 21:43

Well, the way I'm depicting it is based on my personal knowledge and training. A leak from a waveguide tube is enough to be considered a health risk. When you have a fifty thousand volt HPA pumping out X band RF... That tube's gonna be very 'Hot'. Essentially, it's like putting a LIon battery on steroied, in a big nasty microwave oven, on steroids.

Tabasco · 2009-08-22, 13:17

Oh, no argument there. By 'golden BB effect' I was referring to how a single statistically unlikely event at just the wrong place can wreak havoc, eg the tower collapsing.

I was getting at that even a relatively low power device like a lithium battery can fail catastrophically under the wrong conditions, so it makes sense that an orders of magnitude application like the cartridges could do the same.

Where's that fic posted, anyway? It sounds like it might be interesting.

2009-07-25, 20:02	Link #2282
LoweGear Secret Society BLANKET Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco	That line of logic doesn't really disprove the idea though, since you're talking about the Knights in their current state (aka as Guardian Knight programs), while the idea is about what they were before that. Of course the Guardian Knights would be affected differently from the other characters by the Book of Darkness, because their functions are tied directly to it. The idea is what were they before they became Guardian Knights - were they just wisps of nothingness before they were created and programmed, or were they once humans with their own lives who were "programmed" into the Book to serve as its Guardians? We don't have conclusive evidence either way, so for the moment, it's just "Devil's Proof". __________________ Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.

2009-07-27, 23:35	Link #2287
Wild Goose Truth Martyr Author Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork. Age: 38	put it in OC. They'd be more accepting of it there. __________________ One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine. *I believe in miracles.* Order of Freelance Mages (Goose's Nanoha OC Project)

2009-07-28, 07:37	Link #2288
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	Do both, just in case it gets too hot in OC. __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2009-07-28, 08:07	Link #2289
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	Some people take this stuff too seriously. But you cannot really argue with an idea like this. It will be epic and awesome. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2009-07-28, 20:03	Link #2293
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	Oh god this incident just got me rolling the floor again... I've lost count how many times things being Lost in Translation have screwed us over. __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2009-07-25, 19:36	Link #2281
Avatar_notADV Once and Current Subber Join Date: Dec 2005	I don't buy the "Signum was once a person" idea. It's not that it's impossible, just that joining with Agito doesn't imply it. It's not that the Knights have no Linker Core, it's that they don't have anything else! (At least, not when they were Knights.) Think about the scenes where they were absorbed into the Book of Darkness back in A's. The other characters just had their cores absorbed, but the Knights were actually destroyed by that process. To me, the conclusion is that the Knights, if not in possession of a Linker Core the same as the other mages in the show, have something very analogous (and that it's a much more significant part of them than a Linker Core is to, say, Fate or Nanoha.) It's not even a stretch to say that whatever that is could interface with a Unison Device in the same way that a Linker Core does... especially given that both Hayate and Vita have achieved unison with Rein, so we know the process is at least similar. Indeed, Zest was a good character.

2009-07-28, 12:49	Link #2290
stormturmoil Field Medic Join Date: May 2007	Just to bring the 'Wolkenritter being human' thing back up regards Signum, something from StrikerS that may be of significance (or not...) is the fact that Signum introduces herself as Signum Needes; that is, she's acquired a last name... now, where did that come from? some possibilities: 1: She was once Human, and she always had it, but we never had occasion to hear it before then. 2: it was chosen for her or she chose it herself as part of the whole bureau-joining thing. Significant that it's not Hayate's last name, as you might expect. 3: She's got Married since A's! 'Needes' would then be the name of her Husband. (though this assumes that Midchildan or Belkan Marriages transfer the Husband's name to the Wife. If not, return to 1 and 2)

2009-07-28, 13:15	Link #2291
Jimmy C Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	No, the subbers just mistranslated her rank. It was supposed to be 2nd Lt. Signnum.

2009-07-28, 13:39	Link #2292
stormturmoil Field Medic Join Date: May 2007	Hah, and there was I beginning to wonder if al those Crack's Vice Makes in StrikerS Nano about Signum being a Submissive Uke might have been justified...

2009-08-19, 12:47	Link #2294
D2 Go Big Red! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Heart of Liberion Age: 32	I asked this question in the Q&A section, but was suggested to bring it here: Is it possible for Velka cartridges to explode/detonate/react if exposed to extreme outside forces? ex. (magical blasts, hard strikes, etc.)

2009-08-19, 12:49	Link #2295
Aaron008R Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philippines	It would be weirder if they didn't. >_> I don't see any reason for them to be indestructible little bullets that only releases energy when used properly. So why not? :3 __________________ OC Profiles Yagami Hayate: ver. GenerationS; Part 1, Part 2

2009-08-19, 17:17	Link #2296
Password Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	We do have a precedent concentrated magic being explosive when their containers get damaged (see: the Relics, though a catridge explosion would definitely be a lot smaller <<)

2009-08-21, 11:56	Link #2297
AdmiralTigerclaw Sword Wielding Penguin Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Subspace, Texas Age: 39	In my fic, I make them react rather... 'Excitedly', to microwave radiation. Spoiler for Warning, High Energy Waveguide Tube: The casing struck one of the Antenna arrays on its way down. It bounced into a cross bar nearby and ricocheted into a high power amplifier... bounced for a second, then spun into another lower cross bar half a story below. The casing shattered this time, spilling several bright red magic cartridges into the open air. Several of them bounced harmlessly into the open and dropped towards the ground. But one of them landed against a vertical waveguide tube and found its way into one of only a few small positive airflow gaps, and arced. There was a small magical explosion, which flung what appeared to be high energy sparks across the tower, burning the steel framework and damaging its supports and stabilizing cables. The blast sparks hit ground level, setting off the casings that had landed there. The secondary shook the tower, which visibly dropped about a foot and jolted to the side. Nanoha looked on in awe as the Butterfly Effect continued its work. The communications tower strained against its damaged stabilizing cables, which systematically began to snap, weakest one first, with loud metallic 'twangs'. Finally, with a loud shrieking groan of stressed aluminum and sheered steel, the whole thing began to pitch over, right towards Crash. "Oh, for the love of-" 'CRUNCH!!!!'

2009-08-21, 17:17	Link #2298
Tabasco Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 41	Heh. The golden BB effect strikes again. I would agree though, it would take a fair amount to cause a breach in a cartridge, otherwise they wouldn't be safe to use, but they are after all designed for rapid energy discharge. I think 'lithium battery failure on steroids' probably would cover the results.

2009-08-21, 21:43	Link #2299
AdmiralTigerclaw Sword Wielding Penguin Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Subspace, Texas Age: 39	Well, the way I'm depicting it is based on my personal knowledge and training. A leak from a waveguide tube is enough to be considered a health risk. When you have a fifty thousand volt HPA pumping out X band RF... That tube's gonna be very 'Hot'. Essentially, it's like putting a LIon battery on steroied, in a big nasty microwave oven, on steroids.

2009-08-22, 13:17	Link #2300
Tabasco Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 41	Oh, no argument there. By 'golden BB effect' I was referring to how a single statistically unlikely event at just the wrong place can wreak havoc, eg the tower collapsing. I was getting at that even a relatively low power device like a lithium battery can fail catastrophically under the wrong conditions, so it makes sense that an orders of magnitude application like the cartridges could do the same. Where's that fic posted, anyway? It sounds like it might be interesting.