[Manga] Who is Tobi?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

while my theory is not impossible right?

nothing's impossible, but I'd say it's highly unlikely

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

i agree, save for the idea that i think obito is actually Izunas descendant...(only because i want sasuke and itachi to be direct descendants of madara...you know, 9 tails sees sasuke and say he reminds him of madara could be an indication. madara and shodai fought, sasuke fighting naruto seems to be an indication...yadda yadda yadda)

I see what you're saying, but a descendant of izuna is essentially the same thing as one from madara. sasuke is almost a carbon copy of itachi. he just has slightly different ability and personality. i just don't know if that's a big enough difference to make any kind of impact.

one thing people who have hated on obito theory never seemed to want to address is tobi's name. (since no other theories have any reason for it mostly). but now that we know tobi is part obito, i think it deserves more thought. is having just obito's eye enough for tobi to name himself after him? I don't think so. I think tobi must be more of obito than just an eye. based on his interest in kakashi and gai's personalities, his playful voice and his name of obito reversed, I think that it's evident that obito's personality still persists in tobi

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i don't think so. It's a convoluted story line and it renders zetsu useless in a lot of cases when he was clearly needed. after the itachi sasuke fight, tobi was pretty insistent about knowing whether or not zetsu saw and recorded the fight. if he could gleen all the knowledge from itachi's eyes, he wouldn't have cared. I think it's legitimate for Tobi to have gotten all this newer knowledge from zetsu. we've seen zetsu in a bunch of critical locations and fights witnessing and recording the events for tobi. it makes sense for tobi to want to know about his primary enemies. and for him to want to know about kakashi given the obito connection that is now fact

But all this does not explain why was Zetsu always at the right places to record everything. Why was he watching 3 children who went to some random bridge in a war? Was he watching because of Minato? Then he should have left following Minato to the front lines of the war. Was he watching Obito because Madara wanted his eyes? Then why didn't he take the other eye from Kakashi for example after Kakashi and Sasuke fought Zabuza? Kakashi collapsed from exhaustion, that was the time to take Obito's eye from him. He could have also taken Sasuke's eyes. Of course we could reason that Tobi didn't want to interfere with Itachi's plan of making Sasuke an avenger, because Tobi already had his plan to later turn Sasuke against Konoha. But this reasoning seems too complicated. But who knows, maybe this is the reason, we have already seen some complicated explanations from Kishimoto that weren't really right, for example the story of Itachi killing his clan.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

But all this does not explain why was Zetsu always at the right places to record everything.

I think it makes sense for zetsu to have been keeping an eye on sasuke and nagato given their importance to tobi.

Why was he watching 3 children who went to some random bridge in a war? Was he watching because of Minato? Then he should have left following Minato to the front lines of the war. Was he watching Obito because Madara wanted his eyes?

I think he was watching obito either for just his eyes or because madara placed his chakra in obito prior to kakashi gaiden. perhaps obito was going to be just as important to tobi's plans as nagato and sasuke

Then why didn't he take the other eye from Kakashi for example after Kakashi and Sasuke fought Zabuza? Kakashi collapsed from exhaustion, that was the time to take Obito's eye from him.

there have been plenty of times for tobi to take kakashi's eye. imho, the only theory that makes sense of this is obito theory because a part of obito's personality would still exist in tobi and cause him to feel a shred of friendship or empathy for kakashi. obito did after all, give it to him in the first place. and we know that tobi is still interested in kakashi's life which also makes no sense unless obito's personality is still present.

He could have also taken Sasuke's eyes. Of course we could reason that Tobi didn't want to interfere with Itachi's plan of making Sasuke an avenger, because Tobi already had his plan to later turn Sasuke against Konoha. But this reasoning seems too complicated. But who knows, maybe this is the reason, we have already seen some complicated explanations from Kishimoto that weren't really right, for example the story of Itachi killing his clan.

if madara planted his chakra in obito then obito would be the most important uchiha to save even above sasuke. as for taking sasuke's pre-ms eyes similar to how tobi at least took obito's pre-ms eye, I would chalk that up to itachi's protection. tobi didnt feel like he could move freely against konoha, naruto and sasuke until itachi was dead. tobi was relieved to have that 'eye-sore' gone from akatsuki. it's also true though that itachi's plan for sasuke fit right into tobi's plan so aside from spare eyes, he didnt really have motivation to attack sasuke and instead benefited from letting things develop mostly on their own between itachi and sasuke

[WefiDasst]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

i agree, save for the idea that i think obito is actually Izunas descendant...(only because i want sasuke and itachi to be direct descendants of madara...you know, 9 tails sees sasuke and say he reminds him of madara could be an indication. madara and shodai fought, sasuke fighting naruto seems to be an indication...yadda yadda yadda)

think Sasuke is related to Mardara, they both look alike. Kinda like how Naruto looks like Minito.

[Artimus_Prime]

Kinda like how minato looks like jiraiya...

[prakash123]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

one thing people who have hated on obito theory never seemed to want to address is tobi's name. (since no other theories have any reason for it mostly). but now that we know tobi is part obito, i think it deserves more thought. is having just obito's eye enough for tobi to name himself after him? I don't think so. I think tobi must be more of obito than just an eye. based on his interest in kakashi and gai's personalities, his playful voice and his name of obito reversed, I think that it's evident that obito's personality still persists in tobi

it used to be that the BIGGEST hint/clue was the name.lemme just say that, that is a load of bull.obtio's name reversed isnt even spelled tobi or tobi's name reversed is obito.the name just happens to spell tobi by rearranging and removing some letters thats all.im not saying that i do not support the obito being tobi theory(thats the one i rooting for).its just the name part which is just really annoying.if ppl wanna say it has got to do with the name then i might as well say tobi is saru'tobi' or 'tobi'rama...isnt that a much more convincing clue?

[prakash123]

Here is another thought on who tobi is...uchiha setsuna.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by prakash123

it used to be that the BIGGEST hint/clue was the name.lemme just say that, that is a load of bull.obtio's name reversed isnt even spelled tobi or tobi's name reversed is obito.the name just happens to spell tobi by rearranging and removing some letters thats all.im not saying that i do not support the obito being tobi theory(thats the one i rooting for).its just the name part which is just really annoying.if ppl wanna say it has got to do with the name then i might as well say tobi is saru'tobi' or 'tobi'rama...isnt that a much more convincing clue?

that's not correct. the 'tobi' in other names like sarutobi and tobirama use different kanji symbols in japan than in obito and tobi.

[Dengar]

I wanna see some virtual hands. Who here thinks that Tobi, as we know him, already existed before Obito died, and merely took Obito's eye and possibly some of his DNA and/or chakra or whatever?


As for him being Madara.. Yeah that's impossible, at least with the information I have. That would mean Madara is in two places at once. Besides he already admitted to not being Madara. Hell, him being Black Zetsu has a higher likelyhood right now (not that I think he actually IS Black Zetsu, I'm just mentioning the possibility).

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Dengar

As for him being Madara.. Yeah that's impossible, at least with the information I have. That would mean Madara is in two places at once.

Technically, Orochimaru is in at least 3 places currently (the largest chunk is stuck in Itachi's mirror, a piece can be found in Shinigami's tummy, and a piece is now traveling with Sasuke (which came from pieces found in Anko and Kabuto)), so just because Madara is fighting the Kages does not mean he cannot still be directly connected to Tobi. (Note, I don't necessarily believe this (Kishimoto has given us enough evidence to the contrary), but simply because there are multiple bodies does not preclude them from being the same.)

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Dengar

As for him being Madara.. Yeah that's impossible, at least with the information I have. That would mean Madara is in two places at once. Besides he already admitted to not being Madara. Hell, him being Black Zetsu has a higher likelyhood right now (not that I think he actually IS Black Zetsu, I'm just mentioning the possibility).

^^what james said. also, when did tobi admit to not being madara? can you site the chapter it is in?

[Mateus]

He never admitted to *not* being Madara, but rather everyone figured out that the *real* Madara was Edo-Tenseied and realized that Tobi was a liar who in return said he didn't care/didn't want to be anyone.

[Dengar]

^ People apparently forgot all about his "I am no one" schtick?

Originally Posted by james0246

Technically, Orochimaru is in at least 3 places currently (the largest chunk is stuck in Itachi's mirror, a piece can be found in Shinigami's tummy, and a piece is now traveling with Sasuke (which came from pieces found in Anko and Kabuto)), so just because Madara is fighting the Kages does not mean he cannot still be directly connected to Tobi. (Note, I don't necessarily believe this (Kishimoto has given us enough evidence to the contrary), but simply because there are multiple bodies does not preclude them from being the same.)

It is my view that having chunks of yourself scattered in different places isn't the same as being in multiple places at the same time. I don't have any concrete proof to back this up other than the circumstantial "I've never seen two Orochimarus be in different places at the same time".

[dagr81]

yeah don't think tobi is obito, someone made a post about the time line of obito and what know about tobi. it just did not add up. I gather from what he said, i got the eyes from the last war.
I don't care iether way if he is or is not, after all the auther can just make up a story as to why he is or is not obito

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Dengar

^ People apparently forgot all about his "I am no one" schtick?

so if that is your proof of him admitting to not being madara... then you must think tobi is literally noone. just a figment of all the characters imaginations? just an apparition brought about by some izanagi-esque sharingan technique?

It is my view that having chunks of yourself scattered in different places isn't the same as being in multiple places at the same time. I don't have any concrete proof to back this up other than the circumstantial "I've never seen two Orochimarus be in different places at the same time".

the proof is in the past events in the manga. we know that minato was in naruto's mental plane as well as sealed in the reaper. we know that orochimaru is alive and walking with sasuke while still sealed in the totsuka blade and the reaper. you shouldn't need things spelled out so specifically. that would make the dialogue monotonous

sasuke: but aren't you sealed in the totsuka blade?

orochimaru: yes and part of my soul is still in the reaper's belly. remember? now let's get going while i reiterate everything that the audience has already seen and you already know

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

so if that is your proof of him admitting to not being madara... then you must think tobi is literally noone. just a figment of all the characters imaginations? just an apparition brought about by some izanagi-esque sharingan technique?

Don't be ridiculous. I believe he is somebody who has cast aside his original identity long ago. Which obviously means he isn't Madara.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

the proof is in the past events in the manga. we know that minato was in naruto's mental plane as well as sealed in the reaper. we know that orochimaru is alive and walking with sasuke while still sealed in the totsuka blade and the reaper. you shouldn't need things spelled out so specifically. that would make the dialogue monotonous

sasuke: but aren't you sealed in the totsuka blade?

orochimaru: yes and part of my soul is still in the reaper's belly. remember? now let's get going while i reiterate everything that the audience has already seen and you already know

MOST of Minato was in the reaper, and PART of Minato was inside Naruto (emphasis on "was" because his chakra ran out). I reiterate: I do not believe that having chunks of yourself in different places is the same as being in multiple places at once. Not ONCE have we seen TWO Orochimarus alive and well.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Don't be ridiculous. I believe he is somebody who has cast aside his original identity long ago. Which obviously means he isn't Madara

my point is that that is not proof of tobi admitting to not be madara. my other point is that if you think it's proof he's not madara, then it's proof taht he is nobody. logically, you can't just single out madara as being somebody while accepting that tobi could be somebody else based on this quote

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

my point is that that is not proof of tobi admitting to not be madara. my other point is that if you think it's proof he's not madara, then it's proof taht he is nobody. logically, you can't just single out madara as being somebody while accepting that tobi could be somebody else based on this quote

That... I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying at all. Really sorry.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Dengar

That... I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying at all. Really sorry.

no worries. you quoted tobi as saying 'I am nobody'. your conclusion from that quote was tobi can't be madara, yet you still think he can be somebody else. it doesn't make any logical sense.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

no worries. you quoted tobi as saying 'I am nobody'. your conclusion from that quote was tobi can't be madara, yet you still think he can be somebody else. it doesn't make any logical sense.

Oh, yeah I get what you're saying now.

Maybe I should add something then. If he were really madara, he would have no reason to claim to be no one. He could've just said "I'm still Madara".