Infinite Stratos - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

You mind explaining to me how a sword wielding IS can cause collateral damage on the scale of what Gospel is capable of? If he missed he could easily stop and pull up, if he hit I doubt Gospel would explode into a nuclear explosion.

You forget that Ichika was coming at Gospel from the TOP so even if Gospel opened fire the shots would go UP not DOWN.

The boat scene was stupid, if it was a civilian plane or something I would understand.



Then that would mean that Ichika is psychic and knew that Gospel would dodge the attack anyways and by some random logic would open fire on a random boat (and it's not even a frickin tanker to begin with)

What I mean is that if he had continued with the attack, it would have blown Houki off it's back, and attacked the boat. Yes, not really a perfectly logical decision, but perfect logic would have left the fishermen dead.

The only iffy thing about that scene was Ichika breaking off the attack to protect the ship, but hey strange things happen in combat, he could have gotten a feeling or something. I'll let it slide.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Endscape

It was flying doing nothing because there was nothing there to attack. It left it's base and went over the sea after trashing it, and they blockaded the area so there was nothing to attack. it didn't attack them immediately because they had the advantage, it's not a crazy person, just a faulty machine.

Exactly, so why a faulty machine would go all the way to an obviously unharming target, while 2 obviously hostile units are after it?
A machine logic would lock priority on disposing of the 2 direct threats.

You first claim that it will attack anything in range, then you say that it didn't attack them immediately because they had the advantage?
Honestly, is that even logic in this context? Really, if you pull out that gospel still has a program that would allow it not to take actions due to an advantageous situation, I question even more your claim that it would attack the boat.

That just a glaring contradiction in that statement.

It could have blown Houki off in the gap anyway.

But it just didn't? Do you actually see the problem?
Houki did exactly that stunt to pin down gospel for an instant. It took it such a long gap to actually fire at it without much aggressive or erratic behaviour.
That's all we have here to conclude that it is just a damn passive unit.


You are giving way too much credits for that machine, despite Houki was able to pin it down with plain charge and sword crossing, while she is a damn rookie. If it was all that effective, it wouldn't even be stuck by Houki to begin with.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Exactly, so why a faulty machine would go all the way to an obviously unharming target, while 2 obviously hostile units are after it?
A machine logic would lock priority on disposing of the 2 direct threats.

You first claim that it will attack anything in range, then you say that it didn't attack them immediately because they had the advantage?
Honestly, is that even logic in this context? Really, if you pull out that gospel still has a program that would allow it not to take actions due to an advantageous situation, I question even more your claim that it would attack the boat.

That depends on what the priority is. It's berserk, so it's going to blow stuff up, it looks for the easiest target which is the ship.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Endscape

What I mean is that if he had continued with the attack, it would have blown Houki off it's back, and attacked the boat. Yes, not really a perfectly logical decision, but perfect logic would have left the fishermen dead.

The only iffy thing about that scene was Ichika breaking off the attack to protect the ship, but hey strange things happen in combat, he could have gotten a feeling or something. I'll let it slide.

Except Houki's back was to the ship. Gospel was FACING the boat the entire time. If it was gonna blow her off it would've already done so and Ichika never would've made it in time regardless. In fact when Gospel blew Houki off its fire didn't even touch the boat when it unleashed its barrage at her.

It's berserk, so it's going to blow stuff up, it looks for the easiest target which is the ship.

Except it never went for the ship in the first place. In fact Ichika brought the ship into its crossfire because of his stupidity.

[Klashikari]

... This is going nowhere.

Endscape, do you realize the problem of your statement?

If you consider "berserk" as the true one, Gospel would attack "anything on sight", as you alledgy claimed first.
Yet, not only it doesn't, but completely ignored Houki and Ichika until they attacked.
Now, you are expecting a machine run by logic to attack a unrelated "object" in its broad vinicity, while 2 very hostile and aggressive machines are after it, within mid/melee range?

You are involving 2 points that don't add up to each other at all.


I will just say this: you are basing that assumption with the word "berserk", despite the behavior of Gospel was shown as logical and absolutely not random so far.
And honestly, at this point, I think Ayako mistranslated, as it should be "out of control", not "berserk".

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

... This is going nowhere.

Endscape, do you realize the problem of your statement?

If you consider "berserk" as the true one, Gospel would attack "anything on sight", as you alledgy claimed first.
Yet, not only it doesn't, but completely ignored Houki and Ichika until they attacked.
Now, you are expecting a machine run by logic to attack a unrelated "object" in its broad vinicity, while 2 very hostile and aggressive machines are after it, within mid/melee range?

You are involving 2 points that don't add up to each other at all.


I will just say this: you are basing that assumption with the word "berserk", despite the behavior of Gospel was shown as logical and absolutely not random so far.
And honestly, at this point, I think Ayako mistranslated, as it should be "out of control", not "berserk".

As I said, it's programming was set to destroy. Now logically, what would be easiest to destroy, two ISes, or a fishing boat.?

[Klashikari]

What programming? Where did you pull that from? Where is the evidence?

And if it is "destroy", why didn't it attack Houki and Ichika the whole time, despite the boat wasn't even close to the battlefield until Ichika finds it out?
And if we assume that Gospel detected the boat before Ichika, why didn't it try to dive towards the ocean before being engaged by Ichika and Houki?
As I said: Gospel wasn't even moving towards the ocean, nor aiming at it before or while fighting the IS.
Heck, with your assumption, Gospel would ignore them totally and rush only at the boat, destroy it, then coming back at the 2 teens.

Your point doesn't make sense in this context at all: the fight lasted minutes before Ichika spotted the damn boat. But yet, while the boat wasn't around, Gospel didn't try to destroy the two IS first, until both engaged him.
What gives?

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by Endscape

As I said, it's programming was set to destroy. Now logically, what would be easiest to destroy, two ISes, or a fishing boat.?

No it's not. Where are you getting this from? Like Klashikari said Gospel is simply out of control of the American + Israel military that were testing it.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

What programming? Where did you pull that from? Where is the evidence?

And if it is "destroy", why didn't it attack Houki and Ichika the whole time, despite the boat wasn't even close to the battlefield until Ichika finds it out?
And if we assume that Gospel detected the boat before Ichika, why didn't it try to dive towards the ocean before being engaged by Ichika and Houki?
As I said: Gospel wasn't even moving towards the ocean, nor aiming at it before or while fighting the IS.
Heck, with your assumption, Gospel would ignore them totally and rush only at the boat, destroy it, then coming back at the 2 teens.

Your point doesn't make sense in this context at all: the fight lasted minutes before Ichika spotted the damn boat. But yet, while the boat wasn't around, Gospel didn't try to destroy the two IS first.
What gives?

What would be easier to destroy, something that can harm you or something that can't. it tries to avoid combat with things that can harm it.

And I assume, that Ichika and Gospel detected the boat at roughly the same time, though I could be wrong.

[Klashikari]

I already dully noted what you were meaning about priority and dealing with the easiest target.

And now, your line of logic doesn't add up yet again: you think that Gospel detected the boat the same time than Ichika.
Then... Why didn't it attack Houki and Ichika at the -first contact-?!

They were much closer than the boat when they were chasing it (and I mean: before Ichika initiated the attack). So there is no way for Gospel not to detect Houki and Ichika approaching him. If they were in stealth mode (which would have been mentioned), then Gospel would hardly dodge that way.
Yet, Gospel was flying without doing anything, and starts retaliating only when Ichika attacked. Simple as that.
This is the reason why I pointed your logic as faulty: the "attack/destroy anything" on sight doesn't make sense with Gospel attack pattern and behavior. There wasn't any target acquisition or attack pattern before the IS made their move. There wasn't anything implying it targeted the boat.
And there is nothing that state Gospel is going berserk. It just went out of control (which is totally different from being "berserk").

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Endscape

What would be easier to destroy, something that can harm you or something that can't. it tries to avoid combat with things that can harm it.

And I assume, that Ichika and Gospel detected the boat at roughly the same time, though I could be wrong.

Whoa whoa whoa where in the Emperor's name did it ever mentioned that the robot was out to destroy everything? If that was the case we'd be seeing more carnage. There are hundreds if not thousands of boats travelling through the pacific ocean, Gospel should've left a huge bloody swath along its way.

Until someone points out that Gospel is destroying everything I don't buy it.

Plus, its a drone that acts on logic, it would defend itself against armed combatants first before breaking off to attack civilian targets.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Whoa whoa whoa where in the Emperor's name did it ever mentioned that the robot was out to destroy everything? If that was the case we'd be seeing more carnage. There are hundreds if not thousands of boats travelling through the pacific ocean, Gospel should've left a huge bloody swath along its way.

Until someone points out that Gospel is destroying everything I don't buy it.

Plus, its a drone that acts on logic, it would defend itself against armed combatants first before breaking off to attack civilian targets.

They blockaded the area. It was mentioned. If it wasn't going to destroy stuff why bother doing that?

I'll agree on the second point, but then it is on faulty programming, so who knows?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by zibi88

well people think that ichika screwed up... but not he done the right thing... Houki got the best IS on world (4th gen) and throught too higly and mighty about herself... that anyone besides her is weak and all... that human sacrafices dont matter if only does that "she" wants...

she simply was useing her brutal violance without strategy or any kind...

Like hell. She was following the plan. She was counting on Ichika to fight with her. In fact, she left the starring role to his undeserving ass while she played decoy. That's the opposite of "high and mighty". He's the one who left her hanging at the crucial moment because of a goddamn messiah complex. They'd have had more of a chance if she'd followed Laura's example and knocked out Ichika and used him as a shield. Or a projectile. Or a fraking in-flight meal.

lets see what would happen if those civilians on boat would end up dead... killed by IS.... and like the world said... IS has been used in sports and other kind of usage and not in war as machines to kill....

IS have been a military concern from the beginning. And there was no reason to think Gospel would target the civilians while it had two IS to distract it. OTOH, what happened is that Ichika decided he'd be so much more useful as deadweight. I can't really argue with that, but couldn't he have made that decision before departing and dragging Houki down with him? Who, after all, was left to protect the civilians after Gospel was finished with Ichika and Houki?

More than that - it had been impressed upon them they only had one shot at this. And Ichika threw it away for no reason. You can't even say it was to protect civilians - they were in no immediate danger, so the best way to protect them was to deal with Gospel. Ichika didn't just fail Houki or those fishermen. He failed everyone he was supposedly trying to protect. All the civilians in Japan. They're so friggin lucky Gospel didn't just go to town in the nearest city, instead of waiting patiently for the haremettes to catch up with it.

if info would spread the world that humans and civilians to add were killed by IS... people could demand to get rid of IS as they are threat to human kind... like uncontrolable person in IS can be biggest threat to the world....

They could demand to get rid of firearms, too. Good luck with that.

so what did Ichika was simply to avoid the problems of getting cililians involved and since he has no additional weapon he coul do this at most....

That's part of what makes his actions so stupid. All he has is a sword. No endurance. So slash the thing already!

but in this time houki could fight gospel and not let shoot those beams and make ichika bounce them away >__< while houki was only standing and yelling....(and she should have a super speed and strong IS >___< )

Yes, Houki was definitely wrong to expect anything out of him. But then, his sister made the same mistake.

Well Ichika just said mentioned that Houki shouldnt look on herself as the most powerfull person who can say that killing cililians is OK... becouse its not...(and ow the hell did the teachers lock the area away... is some shitty ship could pass between them >___<) but it was houki herself that noticed that herself.... that she is not better than those boys in her past (flashback where they called her tomboy and all).... that becouse she has strong IS she can do whatever she can...

All that means is that whatever intellectual edge she has over him, she lost to her feelings for him. Because let's get real for a bit: she's the one who tried to do her job to protect everyone. Yes, she was enjoying herself a bit too much at the idea of flying at the side of the guy she liked. But she at least kept her mind on the job.

the thing is great power brings responsibility and there is no way to avoid it....

Yeah? And who the hell abandoned the mission? Here's a clue: it's the one with the one-hit kill attack.

anyway kinda its good what happened becouse houki might start to act little less violent and is more thinking about surrounding....

Or follow Ichika's example and just let herself get shot to no good purpose...

Originally Posted by Endscape

It was a point blank hit, and even though Akatsubaki is the best IS we've seen, Houki is not a good pilot, I doubt she could have dodged it.

And again, being hit in close range, I doubt she could have held on

She held long enough for Ichika to pass her. He just choose not to use that opportunity. Because he's a dumbass.

As for the ship, it does not matter if it was a threat, The Gospel went berserk. It would attack anything. As long as the ship was there, it would go after it.

Not as long as it had two hostile IS to deal with first. Or better yet, not as long as it was in pieces.

Ichika made a split second decision there. Perhaps not the logical one, but if he had made the logical decision, those fishermen would be dead.

No, if he'd made the logical decision and continued his attack run, Gospel would be dead and the fishermen wouldn't be. As it is, his failure left Gospel free to do whatever it wished.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Again, even is she hadn't been distracted, t\Gospel still could have gotten away, that's my point.

All the more reason for Ichika to hit it as soon as possible. This was no time for side trips.

It was flying doing nothing because there was nothing there to attack. It left it's base and went over the sea after trashing it, and they blockaded the area so there was nothing to attack. it didn't attack them immediately because they had the advantage, it's not a crazy person, just a faulty machine.

By that logic, it wouldn't have attacked the ship until after it'd dealt with the actual threats.

[Shadow_Zero1]

I know this should not be question on this threads, but does anyone think there will be a second season for this anime?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Endscape

They blockaded the area. It was mentioned. If it wasn't going to destroy stuff why bother doing that?

I'll agree on the second point, but then it is on faulty programming, so who knows?

Because of collateral damage and to avoid public embarrasment?

If I was a general whose order was to retrieve an out of control weapon that has the power to level cities I sure as hell would attempt an operation where there were as few civilians as possible.

Being able to battle it out in a remote area is the best battlefield.

The last thing any sensible commander would do is to conduct an operation where collateral damage would be high.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Because of collateral damage and to avoid public embarrasment?

If I was a general whose order was to retrieve an out of control weapon that has the power to level cities I sure as hell would attempt an operation where there were as few civilians as possible.

Being able to battle it out in a remote area is the best battlefield.

The last thing any sensible commander would do is to conduct an operation where collateral damage would be high.

Eminently sensible.

[hoarfrost]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

In fact, the drone started firing "at the boat" because Ichika placed himself this way. Otherwise, the drone didn't even make any motion or aim towards the ocean, thus the boat.

That's the lulziest part about it. Ichika drew the Gospel's fire towards the boat and then goes "herp derp, boat's in the line of fire". It's like that ep of Dragon Crisis where Ryuji leads an enemy in front of the schoolbulding and then dodges the incoming attack, only with more self-righteousness.

Maybe this is just a case of the writing hand not knowing what the animating hand is doing.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Because of collateral damage and to avoid public embarrasment?

If I was a general whose order was to retrieve an out of control weapon that has the power to level cities I sure as hell would attempt an operation where there were as few civilians as possible.

Being able to battle it out in a remote area is the best battlefield.

The last thing any sensible commander would do is to conduct an operation where collateral damage would be high.

They may as well just blockade the thing and let it run out of juice then, because it sure doesn't seem like a credible threat to anything. Barring that, they could let someone with more intelligence or coordination take care of it, like, dunno, pros. I'm sure the excuse given was that only Akatsomething is fast enough to catch it, which begs the question why such machines are even in the hands of people who probably wouldn't have the dexterity and attention span to pass a driving test. They'd go newtype in the middle of their road test.

[Endscape]

Erm, the minute the boat got in range, it was in the line of fire. IS has eyes in the back of it's head.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by hoarfrost

They may as well just blockade the thing and let it run out of juice then, because it sure doesn't seem like a credible threat to anything. Barring that, they could let someone with more intelligence or coordination take care of it, like, dunno, pros. I'm sure the excuse given was that only Akatsomething is fast enough to catch it, which begs the question why such machines are even in the hands of people who probably wouldn't have the dexterity and attention span to pass a driving test. They'd go newtype in the middle of their road test.

I don't think it runs like that.

On that matter they'd want to keep the situation a low profile anyways and if your gonna catch it might as well do it out in a remote area.

Erm, the minute the boat got in range, it was in the line of fire. IS has eyes in the back of it's head.

Complete BS, aerial units move faster and can cover more ground than a simple boat. The boat got in the line of fire because Mr. I am Hero positioned himself with his back to the boat so what does Gospel do? Open fire on him. If he was so great he should've taken all of those shots.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Complete BS, aerial units move faster and can cover more ground than a simple boat. The boat got in the line of fire because Mr. I am Hero positioned himself with his back to the boat so what does Gospel do? Open fire on him. If he was so great he should've taken all of those shots.

I'll admit that he should have thought a little harder about how to block it. But as long as the boat was there, it was in danger though. That's probably what Ichika was thinking.