P.A. Works: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

You raise an interesting point here. I know for me personally, whatever the technical definition of melodrama may be, I tend to associate the term with shows that have boatloads of angst and blatant tearjerking. Which is why when you get right down to it, I'm way more likely to describe True Tears as a "moe and melodrama flick" (a term I use affectionately) than Hanasaku Iroha. Even if it's got nothing on something like AnoHana or Angel Beats in the angst and tearjerker regard.

That's what melodrama has come to mean for many, though not what it's meant historically. I suppose in this age that makes it just as valid a definition as the historical one, but it's a slippery slope. I think in anime fandom there's been a growing trend to take any anime that displays overt emotion, slap "melodrama" on it as a damning criticism, and dismiss it.

A good example for me: I've seen many criticize episode 8 of Uchouten Kazoku (note to moderators - a P.A. Works show and thus on-topic! ) as being too melodramatic. For me it was the best anime episode of 2013 for any series not named Hunter X Hunter.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Well indeed, this is all a matter of personal opinion. But I do think it's important to recognize that melodrama isn't a pejorative term. To my tastes there are good and bad melodramas, and good and bad series that have melodramatic elements. The presence of melodrama doesn't make a series less good, and the absence of it make it better - not on its own.

As for Anohana, which I commonly see mentioned as a melodramatic icon (and I suppose this is OT since this is a P.A. Works thread and not an Okada thread) I think it meets some of the definitions of melodrama, but not all of them. I think it's very much a character-driven show, for example, and I don't find the characters stereotypical at all. A much better example (and even more OT) example of a true melodrama, IMO, is Clannad.

Yea I think it might be easy to react to it defensively, but in reality it's just a tool that sometimes gets misused a bit. But sometimes it generates good results. This is anime, of course we don't always go for 100% realism.

I like Anohana a lot, and indeed Killing moE girls with huge eYes goes melodrama a lot, and it's not totally off topic because of PA Work's own key incarnation.

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Why does everyone keep coming back to the damn omurice example?

Unless we're talking about how the camerawork emphasizes how brash and forceful Minko's delivery was - which I don't think we are because I've never heard anyone else bring it up - I don't see how the level of emotion in the scene was exaggerated. It's pretty much how I'd expect the scene to play out based on my real lif experiences where similar factors were at play.

Well, it was definitely a Minkoface moment though not as severe as the actual Minkoface. The thing I felt was like to most people: "holy fuck, why is everyone so dramatic about this?" I mean the episode was actually fine in concept-- Minko's insecurity causes her to lash out onto others, but in terms of execution it was just like "man these people are dumb". Honestly, to some of us it was a "Bad HSI" moment where a great concept just caused unintended reactions, like laughter. And overall, the arc was good for Minko actually, but then it almost immediately headed into regression.

Of course, one's own feelings towards a character really influence what you think of the drama. For characters that one isn't familiar with or just can't connect to, it's more natural to think it's overblown.

[Miraluka]

Nagi no Asukara will be 26 episodes series...

Oh god, there will be some mix of rage and burns...

[Pocari_Sweat]

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Ffs. Why do okada PAW animes only get two cours.

[TheSix]

... Well that's... somewhat of an overeaction.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

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Ffs. Why do okada PAW animes only get two cours.

There's been only 1 Okada PAW 2 cour anime.... in fact there's only 1 2 cour PA works anime.

Just because Okada writing a 2 cour anime is about as effective as my TvP (can't macro for beans) does not mean it'll automatically fail. It'll just look really ugly and stupid.

[Triple_R]

Is Okada writing the whole thing herself, or is it a HSI/Gargantia sort of deal where the big name writer does "series composition" and a few key episodes, but the bulk of the episodes are wrote by other people?

[Miraluka]

^The former, Triple R.

[Triple_R]

Well, that's encouraging at least. The best HSI episodes tended to be the ones wrote by Okada herself.

Thanks for the info, Wilfriback.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Best episodes.

Episode 3

Yeh.........

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

^The former, Triple R.

Got a source for that?

There's very very few 2 cour shows where one writer writes everything,Okada has never written all the episodes for a 2 cour show.

Wouldn't put HSI and Gargantia in the same boat either , Okada wrote 13/26 episodes for HSI,that's a lot more than Urobuchi's 2/13 for gargantia.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by totoum

Wouldn't put HSI and Gargantia in the same boat either , Okada wrote 13/26 episodes for HSI,that's a lot more than Urobuchi's 2/13 for gargantia.

I guess my memory failed me a bit on HSI. I was aware that Urobuchi wrote 2/13 for Gargantia, but I thought Okada did about a quarter of HSI's episodes. Thanks for the info, in any event.

[Miraluka]

Okada writes the main "plot" and how the characters behaves and their relationships as well.

[Pocari_Sweat]

And PA Works' best anime ever comes to an end. I'm gonna miss that masterpiece. I have exactly 2 days before I go from blissful fagging mode to overcharged rage mode because that's when NagiKara starts. Grrrrr.

[Pocari_Sweat]

So Nagi no Asu Kara has 3 episodes under its belt and since a sizable amount of people follow this unwritten "3 episode" rule what are some people's thoughts about the series.

To me, this series is just as I feared, utter disappointment and eyerolling. Yes, it's very pretty, but that's a given since it's a PA Works show but this theatrical melodrama and love polygon teenage angst completely taking over the potentially interesting underwater setting is really getting on my nerves. I don't hate the characters no where near as much as some people with the exception of maybe Manaka (I seriously think she's worse than Menma) but I do agree that the extremity of their actions is quite annoying, even though it's understandable because they are kids.

But most of all, I'm very annoyed because PA Works are spending 1/2 year on this "commercialised garbage" meaning I have to wait a significant amount of time before their next anime original slice of life/drama series or for their next out the box experiment ala Uchoten Kazoku/Red Data Girl.

[0utf0xZer0]

The first two episodes of Nagi no Asukara left so little of an impression on me that I was ready to write the show off as irrelevant in the face of its competition this season, but I'm a bit more positive after three episodes. I'm actually kind of intrigued by the conflicts they're setting up. Hell, it might be a little better than I was expecting.

I like PA Works because they've shown they can do the kinds of shows I really dig. I don't expect their results to be amazing every single time - almost no artist can pull that off. Instead, I pay attention to whichever one of my favourites is on a roll at the moment.

[Dawnstorm]

For me, Nagi no Asakura is a solid title. In the context of other PA Works shows, I'd place it somewhat near the middle. An improvised ranking might look like this, but don't take it too seriously:

1. Uchouten Kazoku
2. True Tears
***
3. Tari Tari
4. Hanasaku Iroha
5. Canaan
6. Red Data Girl
***
7. Another
8. Angel Beats

Nagi no Asakura will definitely end up in the middle tier for me, probably somewhere around Canaan.

Of the middle-tier shows, I think that Tari Tari and Canaan are fine the way they are; they're just not top material.

Both Hanasaku Iroha and Red Data Girl are very uneven. With HI, there are better episodes and worse episodes, with the better episodes reaching top-tier material. With RDG, there aren't any stand-out episodes; the whole thing suffers from... I'm not sure what. It's very interesting, but the potential is never fully mined. Visually, it's very creative at times, and cookie-cutter good-looking at worst, but the plot progression and characterisation doesn't work for me; I can't always get into it.

Nagi no Asakura, so far, looks like Tari Tari and Canaan, in that it seems to be solid and consistent. It's more interesting than either shows, but the character designs aren't exactly to my taste - too childish for what they seem to be going for, and that drags it down. I like the way the handle the plot, and I'm fine with the level of drama - so far. Something has to change: if they go on like this, I'll eventually grow bored, but if they crank up the drama, I'll risk my eyes for rolling them too much.

In the long run, they might be pulling a Hanasaku Iroha, with episodes that never quite reach that show's heights. A lot depends on where this is going. My favourite direction would be a setting focus, but you don't get that with Okada.

So, yeah, I'm expecting a solid mid-tier show.

Angel Beats just felt... unmotivated to me. I never got into it, and I barely remember anything. Another, I felt, was trying to hard to be sinister, and as a result it was either boring or unintentionally funny. It did have some effective shocker moments, but those were far and few in between. Nagi no Asakura would have to completely go off the track it's on to reach those lows.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

1. Uchouten Kazoku
2. True Tears
***
3. Tari Tari
4. Hanasaku Iroha
5. Canaan
6. Red Data Girl
***
7. Another
8. Angel Beats

Oh I like you. I really like you . Mine is pretty similar but there is some mixing up in the middle tiers:

1. True Tears - my heart says this is my favourite.
1. Uchouten Kazoku - my head says this is my favourite.

*****

2. Tari Tari
3. Hanasaku Iroha

*****

4. Canaan
5. Another

*****

6. Red Data Girl - only PA Works show I never finished lol.
7. Angel Beats - Die in a fire please .

There's also the Professor Layton movie and the Mai no Mahou to Katei no Hi OVA which would be on the 2nd tier and the True Tours specials which would have been in the 1st tier if it wasn't so damn short!

Hanasaku Iroha movie is out so that'll be added onto the list somewhere .

Of the middle-tier shows, I think that Tari Tari and Canaan are fine the way they are; they're just not top material.

I like Tari Tari a lot. It may not have been ambitious or original (despite being an anime original ), but it had a lot of heart and was very genuine. A solid slice of life/drama series with classic PA Works elements such as scenery porn, melancholic/nostalgic/mono no aware atmosphere and the like.

Canaan I thought was a decent action flick though I wouldn't call it great by any means.

Hanasaku Iroha[/I] and Red Data Girl are very uneven. With HI, there are better episodes and worse episodes, with the better episodes reaching top-tier material. With RDG, there aren't any stand-out episodes; the whole thing suffers from... I'm not sure what. It's very interesting, but the potential is never fully mined. Visually, it's very creative at times, and cookie-cutter good-looking at worst, but the plot progression and characterisation doesn't work for me; I can't always get into it.

Hanasaku Iroha had a pretty high standard deviation, though looking back on it I think the majority of the episodes fell into the decent to good category. It's just that some people, including myself remember the BAD ones like episode 3 and the omelette rice arc though to be fair the only truly bad ep was episode 3 and maybe 17 (certain Takako ep forgot the actual number). It had some brilliant highs though like the first two eps, the Tokyo arc and the final few episodes.

Red Data girl unfortunately marks the only PA Works series I haven't finished. It was frankly boring as hell let alone confusing.

Nagi no Asakura, so far, looks like Tari Tari and Canaan, in that it seems to be solid and consistent. It's more interesting than either shows, but the character designs aren't exactly to my taste - too childish for what they seem to be going for, and that drags it down. I like the way the handle the plot, and I'm fine with the level of drama - so far. Something has to change: if they go on like this, I'll eventually grow bored, but if they crank up the drama, I'll risk my eyes for rolling them too much.

In the long run, they might be pulling a Hanasaku Iroha, with episodes that never quite reach that show's heights. A lot depends on where this is going. My favourite direction would be a setting focus, but you don't get that with Okada.

So, yeah, I'm expecting a solid mid-tier show.

I have no idea where Nagi no Asu Kara will rank. I have too many preconceptions and baggage at the moment to give it a fair assessment so I just have wait till it finishes and then give it a few months to settle in. I think I've blabbered on way too much on its respective thread for me to repeat the contents here .

Angel Beats just felt... unmotivated to me. I never got into it, and I barely remember anything. Another, I felt, was trying to hard to be sinister, and as a result it was either boring or unintentionally funny. It did have some effective shocker moments, but those were far and few in between. Nagi no Asakura would have to completely go off the track it's on to reach those lows.

It's a terrible series. Possibly the worst out of the Key adaptations and also PA's worst involvement, which unfortunately couples with its best TV selling series. Though funny enough, it's not a typical PA Works like show despite being the second most commercially popular (Professor Layton being the most due to franchise bias of the DS games). It had multiple problems ranging from pacing due to insufficient episodes to identity crisis and mood whiplash as it would jump around between slapstick comedy to melodrama one moment or school antics to dungeon crawling in the next. It was jarring as hell and did not have a coherent focus.

[Haak]

Well based on my MAL scores I've rated PA works anime as follows.

Hanasaku Iroha - 8.5/10
Uchouten Kazoku - 8.1/10

True Tears - 7.6/10
Canaan - 7.5/10
Red Data Girl - 7.4/10
Angel Beats - 7.3/10
Tari Tari - 7.2/10
Another - 7.0/10

I never realised up until now how close my ratings were for the "second tier" shows but I knew from the start that differences of opinion, despite seeming so pronounce in forums and discussions, actually end up being very marginal in the grander scheme of things, so it's not that big of a surprise. I remember quite a discussion raging way back about whether Madoka Magica deserved a 9/10 or a 10/10. Regarding where Nagi no Asukara will end up, that's impossible to say for sure but my gut feeling is that it'll definitely end up in the middle of the "second" tier for me.

As for Angel Beats, I actually liked it a lot. It was all over the place but I could appreciate how great it would've been had it been given two cours instead of one. Plus I just don't think I've ever laughed harder than I have watching some of the scenes in Angel Beats. That show was highly creative with it's death scenes. And unlike Another, it was actually meant to be funny. Plus the manga is hilarious as well.

[Archon_Wing]

I have not finished Uchouten but it looks like top tier. Someone's gonna kill me for that if they haven't killed me for the rest of the post.

I think Tari Tari is the best PA Works anime thus far. It isn't anything particularly creative but for the genre it resides in, I think it's the one that has clearly kept my attention consistently and there just wasn't any wasted moments. I can't say that for most anime, plus Wakana is one of the best characters around; Sawa was decent.

True Tears is always going to be PA's Heart and Soul, as shown by their obsession with it in True Tours. It truly encompasses everything I see right and wrong with the studio and writer. The visual style will seem to never get replicated, even if it was to make up for the lack of animation (at least it's not a slideshowmonogatari). Still, those designs are some of the best in all of anime. Not sure why they decided emulating Key or w/e they are doing now is a good idea. Regardless, True Tears set one of the most brilliant stages for anime characters to act upon. And the characters are also a solid example of the Okadamobile going in the proper direction. Hiromi, Noe, and Aiko were quite distinct and could be used as adjectives or verbs. "Wow, you totally got Noe'd", "I totally Hiromi'd that 4 gate" or "That was so Aiko, why was that even there?"

Both are like 8-8 1/2 or so on my MAL, though I was initially pretty harsh on True Tears with my original review (7.5!)

Angel Beats and Hana Saku Iroha I have mixed opinions on. Most of the "Partially Acceptable" moments come from those two series and where 80% of my "lol PA always fails when it matters" jokes comes from. These are my 6-7 range stuff, because both shows contain utterly retarded shit but also some really great moments. Angel Beats had a balanced cast (for Key at least), and Hanairo had Ohana and Minkoface. PA Works also made the normally mediocre to terrible Key designs acceptable, a very difficult feat that took Kyoani many years to get right although it suffered from consistency.

Another and Canaan are entirely forgettable.