Sword Art Online - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[Elestia]

I told myself I wouldn't buy into the hype of SWO, but I guess I only have myself to blame for holding such high expectation. The entire series has been average at best with the ending conclusion to ALO being terribly disappointing with the introduction of Sugou as the last villain. A terrible caricature of a villain with the terrible torture scene and the amount of effort put into making the audience hate him was just silly and unbelievably hilarious at the same time.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

And whereas the conclusion for SAO arc could be polished a little bit, ALO was absolutely awful imho in that regard: so basically we have a hidden "full administrator" account that was left in the ALO main frame without Sugou's knowing (despite he surely went to great lengths to have full control "in order to be (ALO) World's God), and could be accessed like that?

ALO being a copy of SAO doesn't explain everything, far from it: there is no way ALO would be designed without making a complete overhaul in term of accounts and main frame for the game itself, and since it was already setup 1 year before SAO was terminated, I don't see how it is remotely possible to have Kayaba's "consciousness" being present in ALO despite he surely made a program of himself the moment he dismantled SAO.
It just makes Kayaba's presence in ALO absolutely non sensical, even moreso his ability to support Kazuto.

There's no way that ALO could have a complete overhaul in terms of accounts from the way SAO handled them. If they had, Sugou would have been unable to use the game for it's intended purpose of capturing SAO players for experimentation. The Sword Art Online game client would just refuse to connect to ALO. The level of compatability is why Kirito got some carry over from SAO. We also already knew that ALO was running an earlier version of Cardinal compared to what SAO used. But nevertheless, it's Cardinal. It and the sensory I/O interface was originally created by Kayaba. He'd have plenty of chances to bury a back door in them, and spotting it would not necessarily be simple.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

It is just how i feel about this show. It has many many flaws and many people have pointed them out, but for some odd reason fanboys downplay them or act as if they are not even there.

I think pitching it this way is not helpful. Not everyone weighs every "flaw" the same way. Someone can recognize the problems people have with something, but just totally not feel the same way themselves, and that doesn't mean they're a "fanboy". This is just a rather smug way of categorically dismissing people who disagree with you.

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

This show is ok for me, I can like like this when I ignore those flaws and don't think much too about.
I still like this show, otherwise I would have dropped it, but i won't pretend as if the everything is ok with it.

I think very few have ever claimed that "everything is ok" with the show, but they may still enjoy it, and so the flaws you find devastating may not seem noteworthy to them. Surely there are shows you enjoy that others find flawed too, and that isn't because you're being "wilfully ignorant". Everyone just sees things differently.

[GundamZZ]

This episode looks like the conclusion. The story could be interpreted this way.

Kirito finds the passage to Asuna.
The GM cleans Yui's data from the server's memory.
The GM starts make Kirito angry, so Kirito will want to do some crazy thing.
Kirito almost sees the NTR online.
Kabaya's personality is mysteriously stored in the system. The GM never detects him.
Kayabay grants the true administrator access to Kirito.
Kirito starts goes barbarian and tortures the former GM.
To make up the gore scene, he immediately starts the romantic moment with his fairy girlfriend.
Kirito immediately logs out Asuna, so she can start the physical recovery.
Kirito talks to Kayaba. Kayaba gives the game's source code to Kirito. Kabaya's dream is open source gaming.
Kirito knows it's propriety software. To use it, he may get into trouble. So, he plans to host the game secretly. Else, he has to get the patent and rewrite the source code.
Yui's data is reloaded into the server. She explains her data is stored in Kirito's helmet.
Kirito wakes up and finds his imouto staring at him.
Kirito rides to the hospital.

It seems the story is over Maybe the next week is probably aftermath, such as meeting with online friends or releasing new patch(open ended).

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Oroboro

The objections seem a bit silly to be bringing up this late in the game, that's all. It's kind of like saying "I hate Star Wars, lasers don't work like that in real life."
=P

Well Star Wars is god knows where in deep outer space. It's very likely there are other civilizations out there with much greater technology than what we have here on Earth.

But "Virtual Reality" is the basic premise you're asked to accept in the first 3 minutes of episode one.

Again, if it was closer to the virtual reality games that already exist in present time are like, I wouldn't have a problem. Current virtual reality only affects your vision, it's quite far from connecting directly into your body's neural network like shown here. Heck they don't even use controllers, a staple of gaming.

Maybe people get immersed better into games if they are more realistic? and in the end especially for RPGs the immersion is the greatest factor for the fun in the game (for me at least)

Well obviously people will be more immersed in something that feels more realistic, and I guess if people find that fun I can't really argue. I've really only seen games as a means of entertainment though, not something to place myself into. Probably why I don't like MMO's and such very much.

All I can think is that your definition of realism is extremely limited. Like in any series, I think most can agree, we find our sympathy towards more believable characters. We can empathize with choices they make throughout a show, and feel like they are real people. That is a very important part to making a show or movie, or any media really, engaging. This is just one aspect of realism. Whether or not the entire premise is realistic or not is not the point. The point is whether or not the people within the premise act realistically or not to their separate situations.

I don't really find the characters that easy to sympathize with or very believable as real people, so saying this doesn't really help you in SAO's case. As example if I did I probably would've actually given a crap about all of Suguha's past drama.

They try to make it realistic within the show, and not based on our own reality. And I enjoy the fact that they try to justify their own designs, through realistic theories, which adds to realism. Just because the universe itself is unrealistic does not mean the parts to it aren't.

SAO's author is welcome to explain the detailed technology behind the NervGear and how it flawlessly connects into a human's neural network at any time. Oh wait he doesn't does he?

The fact of the matter is, since basically forever, people have been trying to make all forms of media more realistic. In countless movies they try to create eye-popping realistic explosions. I mean take a look at 3-d at the moment, the entire premise of 3d is immersion into reality. And games continue to try to employ better physics, trying to create real worlds. And I'm not just talking about games like battlefield/cod, who's main selling point is realism by the way, but I'll take an example like Dead Space, which for those who haven't played it, the premise is you're in space figuring out what went wrong in a spaceship. In Dead Space, the premise is unrealistic, but the immersion is extremely real. It's a game that make you actually think you're in space, even the sound when you go into a zero-g environment turns completely off, and all you hear is your own breathing. Atmospherically it's amazing, and realistic. Is the game aiming to be more realistic a bad thing? Hell no, it adds depth.

What's amusing about this is part is that I don't like 3D movies OR Dead Space. The former is pointless and the latter is boring.

But like I said, I think it's a definition problem, and you have to expand your definition of what realism exactly is. Realism doesn't just mean looking like real life, but is more about acting like it's real life in it's given context.

Nah I'm sure I have a good grasp of what realism is already. SAO obviously doesn't do it in a very convincing way with it's characters and it does it too much with it's titular game.

Eh... I've read predictions about full-immersion virtual reality being plausible somewhere in the 2030s... I really, really don't think it will take anywhere near as long as the 2200s

As I've said already I'm way more skeptic about this. But if it does happen hey good for whoever it matters to then.

[Witheirate]

So there are a backdoor called Kayaba that offer something called The Seed to Kirito. You must suspicious whether it will contain another backdoor or not. Nevertheless, Kayaba hinting that he hope he will meet Kirito again must double your suspicion.

[MartianMage]

This has got to be one of the most terrible episodes of SAO... the only good thing that really happened is the whole issue was resolved... but how it got resolved... siiiiiiigh... it's like first season ending all over again...

[Vsin]

Oh wow, they ended the Ep THERE? [mod edit: removed allusion to future content]

They really overdid the "Sugou nearly rapes Asuna" part. I mean, it occupies half the Ep for crying out loud. And then in return, the impact of virtually every other scene gets partially neutered due to time constraints.

Deus Ex Machina, emphasis on the Deus. It's one of two core reasons why I dislike Fairy Dance so much - so much happens for no apparent reason because the plot needs to move forward. The other core reason is that the arc spends way too much time labouring single points, but I already had that argument back during Ep 22 so I'll stop there.

[mod edit: removed allusion to future content]

[Oroboro]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Nah I'm sure I have a good grasp of what realism is already. SAO obviously doesn't do it in a very convincing way with it's characters and it does it too much with it's titular game.



As I've said already I'm way more skeptic about this. But if it does happen hey good for whoever it matters to then.

But that's just it. The very first episode asks you to accept the premise that "virtual reality exists" and to suspend your disbelief. Just like any mecha show asks you to ignore the square cube law. Why bring this up now, 24 episodes later?

Thematically, the entire SAO arc was largely about the what it really means to be living in a virtual world.

And if you want more detailed technobabble about game mechanics or how the magic of VR works, there's always the novels.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Vsin

Oh wow, they ended the Ep THERE?

They really overdid the "Sugou nearly rapes Asuna" part. I mean, it occupies half the Ep for crying out loud. And then in return, the impact of virtually every other scene gets partially neutered due to time constraints.

Deus Ex Machina, emphasis on the Deus. It's one of two core reasons why I dislike Fairy Dance so much - so much happens for no apparent reason because the plot needs to move forward. The other core reason is that the arc spends way too much time labouring single points, but I already had that argument back during Ep 22 so I'll stop there.

Spoiler for Comparison to the Novel:

If you read the LN, alot of AFO focus on inner tots. guess they can't include that into the anime. Like when Sugou, use a system command to call up the most powerful sword, Kirito was total disgust with how easy it was and insult to real players.

[n120cky]

This the first time I relieved that Kayaba was there.

I think the molest scene is bit overdo, they should be able to do it more elegantly.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

As I've said already I'm way more skeptic about this.

There's nothing wrong with that, I just hope your idea of the future turns out to be wrong, just like I always hope that more optimistic views of technological progress win out over bleaker and slower ones. This shitty, worthless fuckhole world of ours needs to change as much as it can as fast as it can.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think pitching it this way is not helpful. Not everyone weighs every "flaw" the same way. Someone can recognize the problems people have with something, but just totally not feel the same way themselves, and that doesn't mean they're a "fanboy". This is just a rather smug way of categorically dismissing people who disagree with you.

Agreed. Just because someone doesn't get bent out of shape over something doesn't mean they don't acknowledge it... sometimes complaints on AnimeSuki about shows having instances of 'bad writing' are logically sound and I acknowledge that they are, I just don't care as much.

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Oroboro

But that's just it. The very first episode asks you to accept the premise that "virtual reality exists" and to suspend your disbelief. Just like any mecha show asks you to ignore the square cube law. Why bring this up now, 24 episodes later?

And that's exactly the problem, I can't suspend my disbelief for that because that's not what I had expectations for. I've already seen a VR system in .hack that's much more believable and accurate for the time period it was created, which just happens to be present time.

And I don't have to disregard the square/cube law if the mechas are in outer space.

And this isn't the first time I've brought it up. I already said it's something I haven't liked since the beginning of SAO.

Thematically, the entire SAO arc was largely about the what it really means to be living in a virtual world.

I know, and I don't like that. I wanted to see a game, not "living in a virtual world".

And if you want more detailed technobabble about game mechanics or how the magic of VR works, there's always the novels.

No thanks. I tend to find novels boring.

[Green²]

I wonder if Kazuto will be planting his seed with Asuna in the next episode.

[Esebian]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

And that's exactly the problem, I can't suspend my disbelief for that because that's not what I had expectations for. I've already seen a VR system in .hack that's much more believable and accurate for the time period it was created, which just happens to be present time.

And I don't have to disregard the square/cube law if the mechas are in outer space.

And this isn't the first time I've brought it up. I already said it's something I haven't liked since the beginning of SAO.



I know, and I don't like that. I wanted to see a game, not "living in a virtual world".

Yeah I get your point.

But alone the premise of SAO, being trapped in a death-game shattered the feeling of it being JUST a game.

You can't go on and say that SAO was a game if you died when your HP hit zero.

This was also shown in the anime itself, where people even went as far as taking SAO as "real" world after being trapped in there for 2 years.

EDIT:

Ahh, and btw "living" in the VR world wouldn't be so far fetched if that technology would exist now.
At least it holds great oppertunities for injured or sick people and for seeing friends that live at the other end of the world while interacting with them

[Chiibi]

Holy crap....did anyone else cry?

I'm shocked at the negative opinions for this one. I gave it a 10!

[ion475]

Well, a 10/10 mostly b/c of Koyasu's voice acting. Yes, this "final battle" IS disappointing, but then, people should really realized by now that Kirito's "main hero power" is infinite and you just don't mess with him.

Of course, I'm 100% sure SAO would get my Sakurasou treatment whenever I get to SAO novel...

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Green²

I wonder if Kazuto will be planting his seed with Asuna in the next episode.

Y'know, virtual reality sex would be the best sex. You can get it on for however long you want in virtual worlds.

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Holy crap....did anyone else cry?

I'm shocked at the negative opinions for this one. I gave it a 10!

I didn't cry, but it was indeed a great watch. I think the only issue I might have with it is that it rings a bit hollow for me to have Kirito, and the narrative itself, treat Kayaba as though he's worth a damn. I'm normally a forgiving person, but... no, Kirito, you shouldn't act buddy-buddy or speak with reverence about someone who indirectly murdered two thousand innocent people. Kayaba's an interesting person, no doubt, but Sword Art Online's death trap nature cemented his status as a piece of crap, and he shouldn't be treated as anything but.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Otherwise, I can't believe they have real feelings beyond immature infatuation :/

Excuse me, "immature infatuation"?

You do NOT risk your life for someone out of "immature infatuation."

Further more, Asuna and Kirito both depend and trust each other wholeheartedly. They show their weaknesses and worries to each other and they ACCEPT every flaw and every strength about each other. People in the real world will be married and still not understand how important this is.

"Immature teens" my ass.

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

'm normally a forgiving person, but... no, Kirito, you shouldn't act buddy-buddy or speak with reverence about someone who indirectly murdered two thousand innocent people. Kayaba's an interesting person, no doubt, but Sword Art Online's death trap nature cemented his status as a piece of crap, and he shouldn't be treated as anything but.

I'm in full agreement with this, actually. XD;

....on the other hand, had it not been for Kayaba, Kazuto would not have played SAO, met Asuna, (and the others) or grown as a person. Maybe that's why he said 'Thank you' to him.

[Esebian]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Holy crap....did anyone else cry?

I'm shocked at the negative opinions for this one. I gave it a 10!

Well, for most people the whole Kayaba scene is the greatest DME in anime history, at least it seems like that to me, which automatically lowers their opinion quite drastically.

On the other hand we have Sugou, who is for once a villian without a 2h backstory that leads into at least a positive understanding of his actions but instead a villian who is just a villian without any greater motive apart from being evil.

Well even as LN reader and sb, who likes the LN series quite a bit, I simply have to admit that the ALO arc is imo by far the worst arc of the series (btw that doesn't mean it's horrible or anything; it just can't really compare to the other arcs).

I didn't cry, but it was indeed a great watch. I think the only issue I might have with it is that it rings a bit hollow for me to have Kirito, and the narrative itself, treat Kayaba as though he's worth a damn. I'm normally a forgiving person, but... no, Kirito, you shouldn't act buddy-buddy or speak with reverence about someone who indirectly murdered two thousand innocent people. Kayaba's an interesting person, no doubt, but Sword Art Online's death trap nature cemented his status as a piece of crap, and he shouldn't be treated as anything but.

Yep, have to agree with you but imo he simply didn't care for that in the moment as Kayaba saved his a** this time. We'll see if he judges Kayaba harder next week when things have calmed down a bit...