(L) Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ (Nitroplus & Bee Train)

[DeadlySoldier37]

NOOOOO!!! What happened to the nice little Cal that used to play being a maid and use to love eating hamburgers. I guess she is dead now, I'm a little dissappointed to how much she has changed. I also can't believe that Scythe Master puts up with her shit, I always though Scythe Master pimp slapped his girls when they disrespected him. I guess he might not expect much out of Cal or thinks that Reiji will kill her in the end.

Well looking forward to the next episode, to see the much awaited main event, the cat fight of the year Elen Vs. Cal, who will win? who will stay with Reiji?

Man it sucks that we have to wait a week for the next episode.

[evil-samurai]

Originally Posted by orion

Elen has Drive if her life is in jeopardy, most people do. If she's protecting Reiji, that Drive will kick in. Reiji's Drive was actually eating him away mentally. That's not good either. She's just been discounted because she willingly left SM for Reiji twice. ( I applaud her for falling in love.) SM is just being a sore loser imo.

Yea Ellen does have some Drive, but not to the extent that Drei and Reiji have Shown. Scythe had to control her so she would kill as he needed. Which in my book is some credit to Ellen for being so strong. Her drive or better put 'Killing Intent' needs to be controlled (while Drei and Reiji it comes more natural.) Which does dissapoint Scythe, since she doesn't fit his perfect Phantom model. So purely talking about whats best for Scythe and Inferno I'd say Reiji.

[Oppai]

If you guys ask me, I think that Drei is the least qualified to be phantom. Lets asume that she does kill Reiji. Where is she going to get her motivation from? It seems to me that everytime she kills someone she imagines Reiji's face.
I think that Scythe Master has a big man crush on Reiji. I was like " come on Reiji, Just snap his neck already!" when SM was in the bench.
hopefully they come up with an entirely new ending for the anime, I did not find the VN endings to be so great.

[orion]

Originally Posted by DeadlySoldier37

Well looking forward to the next episode, to see the much awaited main event, the cat fight of the year Elen Vs. Cal, who will win? who will stay with Reiji?

Man it sucks that we have to wait a week for the next episode.

That made me think. If her motivation is to kill Reiji which she says during the preview for ep 22, then she should stop her fight with Elen as soon as Reiji appears. The long awaited fight on those DVD placeholders could be a big troll on Bee Train's part.

The fight should be Reiji vs. Drei imo. That would nicely force Reiji to face his broken promises/sins/failures and deal with them like a responsible adult imo.

Originally Posted by Oppai

If you guys ask me, I think that Drei is the least qualified to be phantom. Lets asume that she does kill Reiji. Where is she going to get her motivation from? It seems to me that everytime she kills someone she imagines Reiji's face.
I think that Scythe Master has a big man crush on Reiji. I was like " come on Reiji, Just snap his neck already!" when SM was in the bench.
hopefully they come up with an entirely new ending for the anime, I did not find the VN endings to be so great.

It's like one of those bad relationships. SM knows that Reiji is bad for him but he can't help himself. He wants him soooooooo bad.

Originally Posted by evil-samurai

Which in my book is some credit to Ellen for being so strong. Her drive or better put 'Killing Intent' needs to be controlled (while Drei and Reiji it comes more natural.) Which does dissapoint Scythe, since she doesn't fit his perfect Phantom model. So purely talking about whats best for Scythe and Inferno I'd say Reiji.

I agree. That is a nod to Elen's strong character. She was fighting SM back then and required brainwashing to break her and reinforce her behavior prior to missions. Too bad she doesn't realize it.

But what is really best for Inferno would be to turn back the clock and get Ein and Zwei back as a team imo. Back to the good old days when they just followed orders.

[daimonth]

Spoiler for Well ranking with some basis from VN:

I would pretty much rank them as such

Skill wise:
Elen>Reiji>Cal

Elen has the most training and experience putting her first. Reiji receives his training from Elen. Cal probably has little training due to Scythe focusing on his other project and putting her under Lizzie's care.

Talent wise:
Cal>Reiji>Elen

Cal was able to shock Reiji with her natural ability with guns and instinctively know about the height difference being crucial in sniping. She also learned how to take apart and putting guns back for cleaning mostly by herself. Her instinct is actually pretty scary in this area. Reiji went in the middle for some of the natural aptitude he has shown in the begining. Elen goes last because her ability can largely be duplicated.

Scythe's main interest was on his other project and his experiment with Cal simply provides some useful feedback as her case can hardly be duplicated.

The three phantoms are essentially roughly on the same level, with Cal having a disadvatange due to her self destructive mental state.

[-Sho-]

I laugh when they played the comedy . Like a brother-sister XD
Hope for a great ending .
But i don't know if in 5 episides they can beat inferno .

[willyvereb]

I don't know, but Skythe surely is going to defeated. He's incurably sick.
Anyways my rankings for phantoms.

Spoiler for speculation:

-Ein: the most skilled and the most tactical one. She may lack in "battle intiution" and natural talent, but her experience really backs it up. Not to mention her acting skills. If I have to say she was the perfect for an assassin. Her only setback was herlack of "killing drive". She refused to kill without orders. Well, now she has another setback:Reiji
-Reiji/Zwei:
He may be less skilled and experienced than Ein, but he has an awesome ability to . And he has a really strong will to live(the very least inicially, now he's quite broken). His "battle intiution" and talent with weapons are exceptionally. Still he claimed himself to unable to defeat Ein. He has working "killing drive", but it sometimes hinder him. Not to mention he tends to run into situations "mindlessly". Most fit to be a personal bodyguard in my opinion. Perhaps he's a top notch assassin too, but he isn't the best for it.
-Cal/Drei:
The probable least experienced of the three, but it's debatable(she has 2 years of "fighting experience" in contrast with Reiji's one year). She had the least training, but the most talent and she has an unrivalled "battle intution"(avoiding gunfire on the open are from a group of gunners is a feat in itself). She has a strong desire to kill Zwei and she tends to be really reckless. She tends to act like a badass movie gangster and loves duels. It's probably cause of her love of gangster and western movies. She's barely fit to be an assassin. More like a duelist or some kind of lone wolf. Extremely bad at teamwork and seemingly often causes friendly fire.
Now the real ranking as the most potent fighter:
Ein
Drei
Zwei
My reason is because almost always at least Ein chooses the place to fight and that's why she has the advantage. She controls the situation even before the fight starts. She maybe an inferior in direct fight but makes up for it with her planning and clever tactics. In contrast the current Zwei is severly inhibited and both of her possible enemies are her love interests. He hardly has a chance being so half-hearted. And even without it I think he's the least good.

[Zwei]

I disagree with the post above. I rank Zwei first not because he's my favorite character but because it's the truth. Zwei has his natural instincts like Sycthe said, far superior than that of Ein since he saved her alot during missions, he also can control his killing intent in contrast to Drei, because she can't control her emotions and Ein has no killing intent as stated.

He's also pretty cunning sometimes IMO, examples are how he could bring out Ein's emotions since she was like a doll and how he made Claudia like him and Cal attached to him, also how Sycthe really liked him as an "experiment" and Lizzie I kinda got the feeling she felt comfortable with him after a while. Then there is the training, it took half the time Ein's training took to perfect him, which is pretty amazing imo, pretty similar to Cal.

Also about the thing about the duel Zwei and Ein had after his apartment got blown out, Zwei stated He can't win, and that he doesn't want to win either, that he was tired of this, if he had killed Ein, then he really would have lost everything, my conclusion is if Zwei really wants to kill Ein, then he would have it easy, sometimes Zwei reminds me of Sycthe as to how cunning he really is, maybe he isn't as experienced as Ein but he sure can manipulate her if he wants to, even if you say she is more skilled, he can still win.

As for Cal, well I can't really judge her that much(I won't go into detail as that would be spoilers so I'll just talk about Drei in the anime) we haven't seen her much except killing the chinese. She seems to enjoy torturing her enemies and she seems to enjoy killing. She also seems fond of duels, as when she killed that chinese, and inviting Ein for a duel I guess. Also I was quite annoyed when she entered that restaurant and thousands of bullets aimed at her but she kept running without getting hit, it reminded me of the anime Noir, where they just charge in and never get hit, unlike Ein and Zwei who use tactics.

My ranking is >

1. Zwei
2. Ein
3. Drei

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Zwei

I disagree with the post above. I rank Zwei first not because he's my favorite character but because it's the truth. Zwei has his natural instincts like Sycthe said, far superior than that of Ein since he saved her alot during missions, he also can control his killing intent in contrast to Drei, because she can't control her emotions and Ein has no killing intent as stated.

He's also pretty cunning sometimes IMO, examples are how he could bring out Ein's emotions since she was like a doll and how he made Claudia like him and Cal attached to him, also how Sycthe really liked him as an "experiment" and Lizzie I kinda got the feeling she felt comfortable with him after a while. Then there is the training, it took half the time Ein's training took to perfect him, which is pretty amazing imo, pretty similar to Cal.

Also about the thing about the duel Zwei and Ein had after his apartment got blown out, Zwei stated He can't win, and that he doesn't want to win either, that he was tired of this, if he had killed Ein, then he really would have lost everything, my conclusion is if Zwei really wants to kill Ein, then he would have it easy, sometimes Zwei reminds me of Sycthe as to how cunning he really is, maybe he isn't as experienced as Ein but he sure can manipulate her if he wants to, even if you say she is more skilled, he can still win.

As for Cal, well I can't really judge her that much(I won't go into detail as that would be spoilers so I'll just talk about Drei in the anime) we haven't seen her much except killing the chinese. She seems to enjoy torturing her enemies and she seems to enjoy killing. She also seems fond of duels, as when she killed that chinese, and inviting Ein for a duel I guess. Also I was quite annoyed when she entered that restaurant and thousands of bullets aimed at her but she kept running without getting hit, it reminded me of the anime Noir, where they just charge in and never get hit, unlike Ein and Zwei who use tactics.

My ranking is >

1. Zwei
2. Ein
3. Drei

uhh he didn't MAKE claudia like him...she just facked him because she needed his powers

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

uhh he didn't MAKE claudia like him...she just facked him because she needed his powers

I guess I'll go into detail for you to understand by what I meant, by "liking him" I meant as an assassin, not like as in anything romantic just as an assassin that would benefit her, so she took a liking to him just like Sycthe.

[klare]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

I laugh when they played the comedy . Like a brother-sister XD
Hope for a great ending .
But i don't know if in 5 episides they can beat inferno .

if they both survive and yet live on like brother and sister, i may get angry

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Zwei

I guess I'll go into detail for you to understand by what I meant, by "liking him" I meant as an assassin, not like as in anything romantic just as an assassin that would benefit her, so she took a liking to him just like Sycthe.

I don't know if you know what cunning mean but an example of cunning would be Claudia or Scythe Master. Zwei is far from cunning. He a decent guy but he was the one being used. His relationship with Ein and Drei was not based on cunning but him being a fairly likable guy. Comparing Zwei to either Claudia or Scythe Master is laughable. He's not anywhere on their level of cunning. None of the phantoms are.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

I don't know if you know what cunning mean but an example of cunning would be Claudia or Scythe Master. Zwei is far from cunning. He a decent guy but he was the one being used. His relationship with Ein and Drei was not based on cunning but him being a fairly likable guy. Comparing Zwei to either Claudia or Scythe Master is laughable. He's not anywhere on their level of cunning. None of the phantoms are.

That's why I said sometimes he reminds me of Sycthe Master, even if he doesn't mean to do it, it's in his instinct, sometimes he is very cunning in his own way. Claudia IMO failed as being as good as Sycthe Master, Sycthe Master could have taken over Inferno and Godoh Group anytime he wanted but he is a coward in the end unlike Claudia who accepted her death. Claudia thought she was controlling Godoh Group when it was actually Sycthe, she thought she had Reiji under control when he was just using her as well(he needed to live after all and had nowhere to go) just like when she phoned him before her death and he practically ignored her and hung up.

[Nayrael]

My take on assasins:

Ein is a true assasin: coldblooded, calculative and emotions don't control her. No matter the situation, she can always find a way to get rid of her enemy. However, her lack of natural skills might turn against her

Drei: good at gunfights, doesn't need to aim for long, is able to dual wield and can quickly find a way to use the battlefield in her advantage (when she rushed into the reastaurant, she made enemies look at the bike while she was hiding few meters away which allowed her to take few of them by suprise; when they noticed her, she killed few more before they could aim properly and when they did manage to aim, she threw the curtain into the air and quickly moved in all that chaos behind her opponent). However, she is too hotheaded and once she becomes sure that she will win, she seems to stop being cautious.
In 1vs1, she seems to mentaly torture her opponent, usually with the Clock of Despair which greately reduce the opponent's skills

Zwei: He is somewhere in between. He is calculative and, while not as fast as Ein, is able to find a way to cleanly get rid of his opponent. He is also good in using guns, tough not as good as Drei seems to be.
Also, his wish to survive is strong and sometimes his instincts seem to increase his skills when death seems to be near

I won't rank them as they would fare different in different situations

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Zwei

That's why I said sometimes he reminds me of Sycthe Master, even if he doesn't mean to do it, it's in his instinct, sometimes he is very cunning in his own way. Claudia IMO failed as being as good as Sycthe Master, Sycthe Master could have taken over Inferno and Godoh Group anytime he wanted but he is a coward in the end unlike Claudia who accepted her death.

Not, true. Claudia didn't accept her death she tried to get Zwei to help her because he was her ace in the hole. The reason Scythe Master revealed her plotting was because she basically at that time had Zwei wrapped around her finger and this was the only way from for him to alienate the two of them so she'd have no out. When Zwei abandon her to her death she had no other hope. SM had Ein which allowed him to plot and make it back without Zwei Claudia didn't have the muscle enough to strike back.

Zwei never once displayed this kind of cunning nor was he even aware of the fact that he was used from the very beginning. He has been and probably never will been on either of their levels.

[Nayrael]

Zwei never once displayed this kind of cunning nor was he even aware of the fact that he was used from the very beginning. He has been and probably never will been on either of their levels.

Even if Reiji does have such cunningness, it does not mean that he has the motivation to use it for purposes Scyhte and Claudia use it. However, to some extent the cunningness can be used for assasinating purposes.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

Not, true. Claudia didn't accept her death she tried to get Zwei to help her because he was her ace in the hole. The reason Scythe Master revealed her plotting was because she basically at that time had Zwei wrapped around her finger and this was the only way from for him to alienate the two of them so she'd have no out. When Zwei abandon her to her death she had no other hope. SM had Ein which allowed him to plot and make it back without Zwei Claudia didn't have the muscle enough to strike back.

Zwei never once displayed this kind of cunning nor was he even aware of the fact that he was used from the very beginning. He has been and probably never will been on either of their levels.

Claudia did accept her death, otherwise she would have done everything she can to avoid it, even if it meant deceiving her best friend, but since she didn't that means she accepted her death, her only hope Zwei had vanished, unlike Sycthe who was pissing his pants when Zwei almost killed him and kept screaming. About Zwei being cunning, I won't go further into topic explaining every detail since I don't feel like it yet.

@ Nayrael - That's obvious, I never stated that he has or will ever use it like Scythe and Claudia did.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Zwei

Claudia did accept her death, otherwise she would have done everything she can to avoid it, even if it meant deceiving her best friend, but since she didn't that means she accepted her death, her only hope Zwei had vanished, unlike Sycthe who was pissing his pants when Zwei almost killed him and kept screaming. About Zwei being cunning, I won't go further into topic explaining every detail since I don't feel like it yet.

@ Nayrael - That's obvious, I never stated that he has or will ever use it like Scythe and Claudia did.

That's pretty bad logic. How could she go about deceiving Lizzie who'd been turned against her because of the fact she found out Claudia had been deceiving her? Lizzie would have to be a freaking moron to believe anything Claudia said after that. Claudia not a fighter and her fighters had all been turned completely against her. There was no way out for her. Also pissing his pants didn't help save Scythe Master's life Ein did nor did it show anything other than his cowardice in the fact of death. Zwei cunning was fairly non-existent so I don't blame you.

[miroku2192]

Again, she took a liking to him not because he's "cunning" [bad word choice on your part], but because she NEEDED to USE someone LIKE HIM.

Like Slick Rick said earlier, if anything, it's SM and Claudia that are the cunning ones.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

That's pretty bad logic. How could she go about deceiving Lizzie who'd been turned against her because of the fact she found out Claudia had been deceiving her? Lizzie would have to be a freaking moron to believe anything Claudia said after that. Claudia not a fighter and her fighters had all been turned completely against her. There was no way out for her. Also pissing his pants didn't help save Scythe Master's life Ein did nor did it show anything other than his cowardice in the fact of death. Zwei cunning was fairly non-existent so I don't blame you.

Maybe that's why it's called deceiving? To deceive people even though they know you are not to be trusted? Just like Sycthe did countless times. So boring repeating same things over and over again, and that's why I'm gonna stop now.

@ miroku2192, that I agree, about Zwei being cunning with Claudia, she was being cunning with him, he never was with her though he was using her as well as means to live, Zwei had something Ein and Drei don't have, that is people always getting interested in him for some reason or another.