2004-11-09, 23:49 | Link #21 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
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"Kira/Athrun dying would teach ANYONE that war is pointless? No, because they were both fighting for peace and the war would eventually end for that reason, whether they lived or died."
Fallacy. evading the argument. did u read what i typed? you are TOTALY missing my point. i am not talking about the PLOT OVERALL. i am talking about the eps BEFORE the fight between Kira and Asuran. the FIRST thing i said is that, i believe that the eps after should be REMOVED. so HOW R U GOING TO ARGUE ME WITH EPS that r not even PART OF MY POINT? OF COURSE the FIGHT WILL STOP, for "their" PLOT to continue, THE FIGHT MUST STOP. "The plot showed that people can think for themselves, they can stop the perpetuating cycle of bloodshed, did you not see the important scene at the end with the ZAFT officers refusing Zala's orders to fire on earth, to 'protect their families'?" This is the plot they TRIED to integrate into the SECOND HALF of the anime, which hopefully if u remember, i dont give a shit about. |
2004-11-10, 00:02 | Link #22 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Tell me, how was it pointless that Kira protected the ArchAngel over all those hardships? How was it pointless that even while in battle, he did believe there was another way to resolve the enemies differences? And oh yeah, I did happen to mention that it WASN'T pointless that Kira handed over Lacus(first half), that he couldn't ignore the injustice, shouldn't he have killed her? Shouldn't they have killed Daerka(first half)? How would it be pointless if they died? Even if we did cut the plot in half like you insist, the result WOULD NOT show that war is pointless. |
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2004-11-10, 00:41 | Link #23 |
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
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well, I don't think SEED would be great if it ends half-way with Athrun/Kira killing each other, but the latter part of SEED doesn't fare any better than that. Especially with stupid things like Lacus sermonizing everyone and Uzumi cosplaying Sephiroth
Kira handing Lacus over is not something just, it's something stupid. This stupidity caused the death of everyone in the 8th Fleet and the civilians in the escape shuttle. |
2004-11-10, 01:02 | Link #24 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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This was a ripple that slowly built into a tidal wave at the end of the series. |
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2004-11-10, 04:53 | Link #25 |
Zander Yuusha Kyorugold
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well...technically speaking, Kira almost, i say again ALMOST kill Athrun in episode 29 and the same for Athrun almost kill Kira in episode 30. At that point the anime has reach its climax esp the pilot got killed is not them , but someone else dear to them.....
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2004-11-10, 05:57 | Link #26 |
original vampire
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: southeast asia
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Well, I think having Athrun and Kira killed each other would have made the ending more powerful emotionally. Better or not, I dare not judge, but I'm sure the horde of fangirls wouldn't like it.
To a certain extent, I think having them killed each other would underline the theme that war is pointless. Just think it through. Two best friends who obviously cared for each other a lot, forced to fight each other by war. Times and times again, they clash in battles, hurting the others without ever meaning to. They think many times of joining the other side, but the situation of war and their own sense of responsbility prevents that from ever happening. In the end, consumed by hate, they killed each other. If it ends this way, the audience will be forced to think many things. Why did Kira and Athrun fight? They aren't even enemies originally, and the only reason Kira continue to fight his dear friend is to protect his other dear friends. A virtuos thing to do, but the only thing it achieves is making Kira's life even more miserable. Why must this happen? to carry out their different ideals? but what "ideals", Kira didn't even care for the war to begin with, and Athrun clearly did not hate Naturals, or he wouldn't be dating one. So in the end, the only reason they are forced to fight is because of the war situation. Should any one man be forced to endure this, just because some powerful military leaders somewhere told them to? Hopefully, the answer will be "no", and so the anime will give out a strong anti-war message. So yes, Derelict, war definitely isn't black and white. It is fought by 'grey' people like Kira and Athrun, who did not even want to fight each other. From this point of view, isn't war rather pointless? Of course, there are other themes in the first portion of Seed, but tragic ending always take center stage in my opinion... |
2004-11-10, 09:18 | Link #27 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Wittling the rest of the plot down, just for one minute point such as Kira and Athrun killing each other would not change the overall plot of the first half, it would not show that war is pointless. It shows that war can drive two good people to kill each other, two once close friends to cut their ties for the sake of, the belief of molding a better world with their sacrifice. Do you think if they died, would it all be in vain? Would their comrades think 'War is pointless, we should just slaughter them all'? No, any kind of death, sacrifice on a battlefield does not rob a war of it's point, nor is it pointless, death would be something perpetuated if it did happen, but hope is something given to everyone in that instance, even if they died. |
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2004-11-10, 09:28 | Link #29 | |
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2004-11-10, 09:50 | Link #32 |
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
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SEED mode has nothing to do with being Coordinator or Natural.
http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds...misc.html#seed |
2004-11-10, 10:22 | Link #33 | |
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2004-11-10, 10:36 | Link #35 | |
WAHA~
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-11-10, 10:37 | Link #36 | |
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2004-11-10, 10:39 | Link #37 | |
original vampire
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Now, as in your example, we have people like Kira, Athrun, and the AA crews, who pretty much get along relatifely fine with both Coordinators and Naturals. Kira and Athrun didn't even want to fight. We have people in the Lacus faction who agrees with her ideals. Don't all of these contradict the aim of the war? If there are people who are fine with co-existing, who do not want to fight, who do not want to kill, why is there a war in the first place? Won't this make the war "pointless"? My point is that if Kira and Athrun killed each other, it would become the peak of this theme. |
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2004-11-10, 10:43 | Link #38 | |
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Yes, Mwu was a very important character, but unfortunately the series wanted to concentrated on the romance between the youths instead. |
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2004-11-10, 10:50 | Link #39 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Do you know WHY most of the main characters were the people that want to coexist? Rau, the Blue Cosmos and Zala are people that make war pointless, Kira and Athrun dying against each other at the end would not null everything that had happened before that, the faint glimmers of hope and the ultimate sacrifice for something that wasn't pointless, they found a reason to oppose each other at last, a reason for them to personally decide to fight, not blindly kill each other because they were just on opposing sides. All of this would have had a point and I'd still disagree with you, even if the story had ended this way. |
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2004-11-10, 10:52 | Link #40 | |
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