Feedback: Option to turn off reputation

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." is all I have to quote if you're worried about that.

No, I don't think I do. Well, if I learned to call a place home and there are people who are potentially ready to vote against me... well.. I rather be a sheep then and not a lion just to stay..

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

No, I don't think I do. Well, if I learned to call a place home and there are people who are potentially ready to vote against me... well.. I rather be a sheep then and not a lion just to stay..

Well, it's just a game really. A game of risk and reward where you always run the risk of getting pwned but if you don't risk anything there's nothing to be gained. But it's just a game, and honestly the last thought that posts through my head when I post is if I'm gonna get booed off stage.

But that's just my experience. I've been dissed since the moment I came online 10 years ago so I feel there's way more important things to worry about. People have sent me PMs on why I suck. *shrugs* Judging by the members list by ordering them by the arbitrary green life bars I can assure you that quite a few of them are extremely outspoken and frequently go against the grain.

As for myself. Well, it's kinda funny to see people think they can cause damage to my life bar only to find out it keeps growing.

But yea, I see it as a game and it's not that hard to play though ofc there's always people that will say mean things to you regardless, but such is life. It kinda reminds me of play money on poker sites, irrational and senseless, high variance, and ultimately pointless but kinda funny and there are +ev moves.

My point is that there are many things you can't do anything about. Thus, you should spend energy on what you can do something about.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

I've been in Animesuki for nearly two years now and still I feel the chills when giving opinions especially those that disagrees the veterans view point. The choice of words you used can either lengthen or shorten your stay.

If you feel you've been ill-treated, mention it to a moderator. I'm pretty careful about what I do with my rep, and only use it to reward postings. I never give out negative rep. That was true even before I had so many dots beneath my name.

I'm not sure where this fear of people with big reps come from. I just browsed the Members List after sorting by rep, and the names I recognize on the first few pages are all people I'd consider "good citizens" here.

[Vexx]

I think its going to be interesting to see what the admin&mod team is cooking up for re-invisioning the rep system. They keep teasing and hinting at it like a fan dancer And... well, I don't tend to nail people for *what* their opinion is - but more for *how* they express it and whether they support it, what evidence they use, and with special attention on whether they grasp that opinion-does-not-equal-fact.

As for turning rep completely off.... one gets feedback in real life whether one wants it or not from their peers and society. And if one is going to say anything, it is probably going to upset *someone*. <shrug> I've picked up quite a pile of reds over the time I've been here....

maybe it would be interesting if the system showed two bars, a green bar and a red bar instead of the single bar

As I commented in another conversation when looking at the vBulletin developer threads on reputation,

"Fascinating ... the software guys at vBulletin are really keen on the "you live in a society and aren't shielded from its feedback" notion "

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Vexx

maybe it would be interesting if the system showed two bars, a green bar and a red bar instead of the single bar

It might be interesting, but I'm against this idea. I think that making neg rep visible (even when an user has more pos rep than neg rep) would sort of act as a visual encouragement to neg rep people.

Right now, I think we have a decent balance where the rep system encourages generally good user behavior but usually doesn't go so far as to have an overly censorious impact on discussion. Basically, people generally moderate what they write here on AS, but they do in fact write it. I think that more users would shy away completely from more controversial topics (which also tend to be some of the more interesting topics) if neg rep became visible.

If neg rep became visible (in its own bar), I think a lot more people would become overly cautious over what they post, and that this would serve to stifle discussion a lot more than it would help it.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Basically, people generally moderate what they write here on AS, but they do in fact write it.

I find AS a refreshing contrast from the ANN forums, where personal attacks are all too common and usually detract from the conversation. But maybe I just frequent threads where mostly nice people are posting.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I find AS a refreshing contrast from the ANN forums, where personal attacks are all too common and usually detract from the conversation. But maybe I just frequent threads where mostly nice people are posting.

Oh, I think that the rep system has been a net positive. I definitely think it's contributed to conversation here being more civil and pleasant, and less marred by personal attacks.

AS is probably the most active site on the internet that I know of where trolls are just about non-existent.

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

I've been in Animesuki for nearly two years now and still I feel the chills when giving opinions especially those that disagrees the veterans view point. The choice of words you used can either lengthen or shorten your stay.

you are aware that reputation does absolutely nothing, right

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I'm not sure where this fear of people with big reps come from. I just browsed the Members List after sorting by rep, and the names I recognize on the first few pages are all people I'd consider "good citizens" here.

you can deal out a lot of reputation in a day, and a single man with an agenda can cause a lot of interesting reactions in a short time

Originally Posted by Triple_R

AS is probably the most active site on the internet that I know of where trolls are just about non-existent.

hello


To actually contribute to the discussion: I think the reputation system is retarded and encourages several forum behaviors that I view as unpleasant and/or detrimental to a good debating climate. However, it also functions like a social feedback loop of sorts; it can easily cause a self-reinforcing groupthink-y belief that it actually matters, which makes people become Very Mad when you negrep them (particularly since it's anonymous). Since talking about received reputation is against the forum rules and the anonymity makes people unable to respond to criticism they view as important (even though it is completely meaningless), it's usually easy to get people who aren't jaded forum veterans (who recognize a troll when they see it) to make posts that will get deleted for rule violations. This highly amusing property alone makes the reputation worth keeping, and in fact, it should not be possible to turn off reputation. After all, as was quoted above, you have to deal with the society you live in, even if it includes people like me.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by TheFluff

To actually contribute to the discussion: I think the reputation system is retarded and encourages several forum behaviors that I view as unpleasant and/or detrimental to a good debating climate. However, it also functions like a social feedback loop of sorts; it can easily cause a self-reinforcing groupthink-y belief that it actually matters, which makes people become Very Mad when you negrep them (particularly since it's anonymous). Since talking about received reputation is against the forum rules and the anonymity makes people unable to respond to criticism they view as important (even though it is completely meaningless), it's usually easy to get people who aren't jaded forum veterans (who recognize a troll when they see it) to make posts that will get deleted for rule violations. This highly amusing property alone makes the reputation worth keeping, and in fact, it should not be possible to turn off reputation.

Damn, why did you have to tell everyone The Truth? :/ Now people are gonna demand nerfs to it.

[Vexx]

I move that Fluff receive free beer for that post of insight ... but I can't find a button to dispense it.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Vexx

As for turning rep completely off.... one gets feedback in real life whether one wants it or not from their peers and society.

Sure, but there are other ways of giving feedback in this forum.

Also, if the point is to be able to accept feedback, then the current singular option of disabling the rep's view doesn't really contribute to that purpose.

And if that is the case anyway, then I don't think there's any harm in either letting rep be disabled from the public but make it possible to still view one's own reps somewhere in the user cp (and not just the amount) or actually letting rep be turned off altogether.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Now you just made it more scarier for the newbies.

I've been in Animesuki for nearly two years now and still I feel the chills when giving opinions especially those that disagrees the veterans view point. The choice of words you used can either lengthen or shorten your stay.

awwwwwww that's so cute

[Marcus H.]

Archon_Wing: Lol, it's like you wanted to have enemies and is constantly pursuing to get more. I don't want that to happen, but I respect you nonetheless. Also, on the Reputation System as a game or "just a game", I hope it isn't so. It just puts the possibility of "one user steps his foot forward and a nuke from out of nowhere comes rushing in to destroy him for critical damage".

Vexx: Honestly, I'm quite thankful that TheFluff has his own road within this community. I really wouldn't like to encounter him on a discussion as I think that he is as blunt as a wrecking ball.

GenjiChan: I understand what you feel, and that is the reason why I decided to disable reputation after some of my friends in the forum advised me to do so after being pissed about negative feedback in my posts. But well, the problem with advocating disabling reputation is that too many users do not care about reputation. Anyway, it's a good thing that you've disabled your reputation.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Oh, I think that the rep system has been a net positive. I definitely think it's contributed to conversation here being more civil and pleasant, and less marred by personal attacks.

AS is probably the most active site on the internet that I know of where trolls are just about non-existent.

Well this is because there are so many ways to troll in this community without posting it as a direct response to the post targeted. There's Visitor Messages, Private Messaging and Reputation (the latter can be disabled). Of course, the Report button on all these functions allow people to control this behavior from developing behind the usual conversation in public threads, but more often the damage has been done the moment the message has been received.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Archon_Wing: Lol, it's like you wanted to have enemies and is constantly pursuing to get more. I don't want that to happen, but I respect you nonetheless. Also, on the Reputation System as a game or "just a game", I hope it isn't so. It just puts the possibility of "one user steps his foot forward and a nuke from out of nowhere comes rushing in to destroy him for critical damage".

Well I wouldn't go that far; I'm no internet tough guy nor do I have a desire to be one. I'm just saying that people online and in Real Life may hate you for petty reasons so there's nothing to be done about it and thus you can do something else about stuff you have control over. It's just that there's too many things to worry about in life rather than some anon herping derping w/e to you. And no, you can't "nuke" anyone-- that's kind of an exaggeration as said above negs take away less points than reps. It's just plain false when I know a lot of people that express contrary opinions that don't get "nuked" to hell and it's not like I am that graceful in all my posts ever. And I get offended pretty easily already, but this?

Anyhow, there's no reason to even consider this system has any legitimacy as Serious Fucking Business because it's arbitrary and well, there's more important things like the actual content of people's posts besides arbitrary health meters. And it really shouldn't be any other way. Does anyone even stare at them and be like "Gee, I should take this guy more seriously; he has more points on an internet forum!"?

But if one is really afraid of those red dots, you can just:

Spoiler:

-- Avoid generalizing large groups of fans or people. Just because you don't say their name directly doesn't make you ok
-- Don't call people trolls or try to armchair mod. Nobody likes that.
-- Make more friends so people know who you are
-- Don't complain about negs, don't whine about thread discussion, and don't play victim. Do not bring up stuff from outside the thread about someone. Aka, don't be a bitch, because that makes you a more fun target
-- Offer help and knowledge by answering questions, especially in tech support
-- Link funny things
-- Disable Reputation and/or realize it in no way reflects your worth as a human being
-- Contact a mod if you believe it is being abused

[Marcus H.]

Does anyone even stare at them and be like "Gee, I should take this guy more seriously; he has more points on an internet forum!"?

I admit, during the entirety of my first year in Animesuki, I have been using the reputation system to judge users. I would look at the posts of someone with more positive reputation because it just proves that there are many people who like that user's posts, while I tend to bat an eyebrow on users with at least one red bar, as it means that this user attracts negativity due to how he/she posts. You can't blame me though; people tend to look for patterns.

[Dhomochevsky]

Most of my positive rep comes from making cheap puns and most of my negative rep comes from people who simply disagree with me, but don't care to post.

The former kinda invaluates the few +reps from when I really cared about an argument.
And the latter are just plain frustrating, because you can't answer them.

Overall the rep system seems to not get used enough, so the few reps that are cast don't even out enough. +/- rep is a rare fluke.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Anyhow, there's no reason to even consider this system has any legitimacy as Serious Fucking Business because it's arbitrary

That's what always baffles me with the rep system,I get reps for completely random stuff sometimes, from "hey I like your avatar" to "thanks for posting this picture".
I really have no way to predict if something I post will get repped.
Same with neg reps,my favorite is how I once got neg repped with a classic "you don't like a show I like,you have bad taste" the catch is that the user must have missunderstood my post because I liked the show in question

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by totoum

"hey I like your avatar"

Technically, that should be against the rules because it has nothing to do with the actual post you made. But if it makes you look cooler, there shouldn't be any reason to complain.

Originally Posted by totoum

Same with neg reps,my favorite is how I once got neg repped with a classic "you don't like a show I like,you have bad taste" the catch is that the user must have missunderstood my post because I liked the show in question

I feel for you. I remember making a post where I said that [C]: The Money of Soul and Possibility Control was an anime that squandered a lot of its potential with its bad pacing even though it came out as a good anime in the end. Of course, some anon gave me a negative rep saying something along the lines of "Fuck you, [C] is awesome." If only I could have replied to that to clear the misunderstanding, but alas.

[Vexx]

Not to derail this but most of my red dots have either been baffling or gibberish.
Baffling when they're blank comments about a relatively complex post.
Some kind of incoherent rage and bad grammar for the gibberish.

And at least a few were like Tempester's .... the neg was given because I wasn't "pure" enough in my comments

I'm always up for a good critique but those are unlikely to be taken seriously or will cause me to improve/modify my behavior... just sayin' It is just another reason not to take the system tooooo seriously.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Tempester

Technically, that should be against the rules because it has nothing to do with the actual post you made. But if it makes you look cooler, there shouldn't be any reason to complain.

Well, two points:

1. Rep doesn't have to be given for valid reasons. This is a very important point that I often have to explain to people, particularly when they complain about rep they think was "unfair". The only rules are that you can't try to manipulate the system, and you can't be abusive in the comments (just like you couldn't be abusive in the public forum).

2. As you allude to, people basically never complain when they get "unfair positive rep", just when they get unfair negative rep. In all my time here, I've only had one person contact me because they thought a positive rep point they got was unfair. If we were to go back and eliminate all the "unfair positive rep" in the system, I'm sure that a lot of people would lose 3/4 of their points, but that doesn't stop people from complaining they moment they get an unfair negative point.

And the end of the day, to the thread in general, I can only agree that rep shouldn't be taken too seriously. You do get some feedback out of it, but it's rather random, and not always entirely useful. It's kind of fun to see what posts get people's attention, but that's really about it. And, suffice it to say (as was alluded to above), there are certain posters who get their kicks out of neg-repping people and watching them get frustrated, so you really can't let it get to you. Take it with a giant grain of salt. If someone is abusive in the comments, though, do let the staff know.