AnimeSuki Forums

Jeiku · 2007-10-14, 22:47

I had a rather (slightly) positive impression of Makoto when the anime just started out. Sure he had some perverted intentions with Kotonoha, but that wasn't his great evil; it was blamelessly naive of him if you ask me. He even promised her to not do anything she didn't want him to do. But he kept doing it anyway. Not only was he going too fast in their relationship, but Makoto couldn't accept the fact that she wanted to take it slowly. I found him annoying for growing tired of her so quickly, because he was only focusing on sex and not on the rest of their relationship. This is where I began to think lowly of him: when he proved he didn't care about Kotonoha's feelings.

Can you call him completely at blame for Sekai coming onto him? Probably not. Makoto wanted sex, and Sekai offered it to him (despite hypocritically claiming it to be "practice"). I didn't believe he was considerate of Kotonoha's feelings from the start when he tried to hide his relationship with Sekai. Makoto wasn't thinking about her feelings before Sekai, and so it was just a front for him to simply not deal with the situation, the milquetoast that he is.

And then what happens? When Makoto wants sex, saying "no" to him even once sets him off. Sekai continuously allowed Makoto to do such things to her until the cake-baking scene. Sekai denied him for only that moment yet he didn't hesitate to sleep with more girls, essentially treating Sekai as "tiring" as Kotonoha was. This makes him a sex addict. All the while he was doing absolutely nothing about the situation with Kotonoha until much, much later, and he probably only rejected her just to get Kotonoha and Setsuna off his back.

Then, Makoto went back to Kotonoha in episode 11. He claims to not have understood her feelings, and that he wasn't aware of how much he hurt her. There's one half of me that believes him to be somewhat sincere about it, and another half that tells me that Makoto only viewed Kotonoha as a "last resort" after all the other girls blocked him. This is the one part that stumps me over Makoto: had he truly gone back to Kotonoha, and was he telling the truth when he said that there would be no other girls for him? Judging by the ending I guess we will never know for sure, but I have a pretty good idea that while his intentions may have meant well then, it did not mean that he would have done good on his word.

In the end, I ended up hating Makoto. Not simply because he was a naive girl-chaser caught up in lust, but because he was not willing to do anything about it. He claimed to be terrible for all he had done, but nothing indicated to me that he would have changed. While I do not believe his fate was justifiable in the least, he desperately needed to learn a few lessons... in other, less extreme ways of course.

InkMaster · 2007-10-15, 02:10

You bring up some great points Jeiku, but the way I see it is that he just got pulled in too fast into everything - from having nothing and just staring at girls from afar, to all the girls just suddenly coming onto him - guess that's what made him "snap"

So while on one hand you can hate him all you want for being such a man-hoe, but on the other hand, you gotta put yourself in his shoes and think about what you would do in such a situation...

Even I can't be 100% positive about my actions - while I do really hope that I would be able to stick w/ one girl - especially one as amazing as Kotonoha, I really don't know if I'd be able to handle all the pressure.

Jeiku · 2007-10-15, 13:03

I know, which is why I feel that it wasn't 100% his fault for going after Sekai when she allowed him to take her. My anger towards him did not grow so much until Sekai denied him for just one time and he started going after several other girls at once, showing his immaturity and utter lack of self control. He had been doing it with Sekai for so long already that by then, he really ought to have thought before he acted.

InkMaster · 2007-10-15, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeiku

I know, which is why I feel that it wasn't 100% his fault for going after Sekai when she allowed him to take her. My anger towards him did not grow so much until Sekai denied him for just one time and he started going after several other girls at once, showing his immaturity and utter lack of self control. He had been doing it with Sekai for so long already that by then, he really ought to have thought before he acted.

You think you'd be able to control yourself?

Jeiku · 2007-10-15, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by InkMaster

You think you'd be able to control yourself?

If you have to ask, then yes.

InkMaster · 2007-10-15, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeiku

If you have to ask, then yes.

mk, I'll pretend to believe

But srsly - I tend to view myself as being very loyal, but for now I'm still yet to meet that special someone who's worth being loyal to.

sasuke13 · 2007-10-16, 02:38

If Makoto just didn't agree to Sekai's help and go off to find Kotonoha, or play video games or some crap, he would still be alive and none of this would've happened...I think...

Calca · 2007-10-16, 21:47

One thing you have to give Makoto credit for

Spoiler:

InkMaster · 2007-10-17, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasuke13

If Makoto just didn't agree to Sekai's help and go off to find Kotonoha, or play video games or some crap, he would still be alive and none of this would've happened...I think...

Well... kinda hard resisting when a beautiful girl wants you

sasuke13 · 2007-10-17, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by InkMaster

Well... kinda hard resisting when a beautiful girl wants you

Very true... Streetor's fact as well.

Haru~ · 2007-10-17, 20:50

About Makoto, he can't hold back his desires and I think the trigger of this is the "seducement" and "practice"....and he had too much lust that he become a jerk... He changed from a virgin to a total playboy.....and when he realized how much lost he is....it's too late..... and I wonder if it would be good to see if

Spoiler for punishment:

mr_winkie · 2007-10-19, 22:13

Well at the very least, Makoto gets props for not being the typical male lead in other harem animes but I really can't have any sympathy for him as Sekai practiced her skills with a kitchen knife on him. He really made his own bed on this in the end for his attitude and handling of the situation between both Sekai and Kotonoha.

redmeat · 2007-10-21, 03:54

That's what Makato gets for being a dumbass. Too bad he was thinking with only his dick.

InkMaster · 2007-10-21, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmeat

That's what Makato gets for being a dumbass. Too bad he was thinking with only his dick.

Heh, you know what they say, men have only enough blood for 1 head at a time

X10A_Freedom · 2007-10-26, 00:42

I watched the finale first then got curious how it ended up that way. I went halfway up to ep05 and it was getting painfully obvious. An emotional rollercoaster centered on Kotohana was coming.

Makoto is an absolute arse. We got the impression he was semi-decent at the beginning but his desire was really only centered on physical contact and sex. How I'm glad I'm not like him and I hope most men aren't sex predators like Makoto. I could not stand any more of Makoto and erased the rest without watching.

zoozoc · 2007-11-09, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

spineless you mean

Makoto is just a classic example of what NOT to be like when you are growing up - or else the consequences are dire

and he seemed so innocent at the start of the anime...

harinezumi · 2007-11-10, 21:21

Firts I thought Matoko was ok, when series ended, thing at my mind was: Makoto is the worst main character I've ever seen. How can guy be so messed up. He was always thinking sex. Poor Sekai and Kotonoha.
This serie was still awesome (: Ending was perfect!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_winkie

Well at the very least, Makoto gets props for not being the typical male lead in other harem animes but I really can't have any sympathy for him as Sekai practiced her skills with a kitchen knife on him. He really made his own bed on this in the end for his attitude and handling of the situation between both Sekai and Kotonoha.

I agree with that!

Sol Falling · 2007-11-14, 07:28

I haven't watched the whole thing...only got conclave subs...but I spoiled myself on the ending just because I didn't feel like waiting anymore to find out if Makoto really got what he deserved (by episode 5, I just decided that the show could not possibly be worth watching if Makoto did not somehow suffer for his actions).

Anyway, this thread made fairly good reading. I just wanted to protest a bit all these people talking about how there is even one redeeming or respectable thing about Makoto.

You know, all he ever actually did was be utterly retardly lucky. That's the only reason he got laid. For everybody saying "he actually took advantage of his harem" or "he's a pimp", well, guess what? You could do it too! To the most minute detail. Makoto demonstrated absolutely no enviable abilities or qualities. You should all stop going against the grain and just hate him the way he was designed to be hated.

I laughed in joyous victory like any other upon hearing the gory details of his death, but I find I can only empathise with those people against it who say "it was too good for him". I don't care if his death or some other outcome actually helped or hurt any of the other characters in the show. I just want him to hurt, hurt, hurt, hurt...because there's honestly nothing else you can do to him. You can't teach him. You can't change him. You can only smash his face in. What is utterly infuriating is the self-righteousness it would conjure up. People in suffering will always think "I don't deserve this". Deep down inside, they believe it. They believe that there is no good reason for them to lay like a dog for the rest of their lives in retribution for past sins. But O, does Makoto deserve it. (And I could never accept giving him the consolation of believing he does, because then his suffering would be meaningless)

I've thought up a better ending for this anime. Makoto should have gotten aids. And then he should have continued, despite knowing this about himself, to fuck every woman he saw. And then he should have been brought to a hospital, surrounded by the women he infected, but also by other women. And he should have continued even then, even dying, in front of women whom he had killed, to fuck those other women, but with guilt and self-loathing the entire time.

Sorry, I contradicted myself there. That would be teaching him.

Tabris · 2007-11-14, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streetor

One thing you have to give Makoto credit for

Spoiler:

He does get full marks for that.

However, he's still a dick and karma actually worked out for once.

tripperazn · 2007-11-27, 00:01

I nominate Makoto for a Darwin Award.

2007-10-14, 22:47	Link #241
Jeiku Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006	I had a rather (slightly) positive impression of Makoto when the anime just started out. Sure he had some perverted intentions with Kotonoha, but that wasn't his great evil; it was blamelessly naive of him if you ask me. He even promised her to not do anything she didn't want him to do. But he kept doing it anyway. Not only was he going too fast in their relationship, but Makoto couldn't accept the fact that she wanted to take it slowly. I found him annoying for growing tired of her so quickly, because he was only focusing on sex and not on the rest of their relationship. This is where I began to think lowly of him: when he proved he didn't care about Kotonoha's feelings. Can you call him completely at blame for Sekai coming onto him? Probably not. Makoto wanted sex, and Sekai offered it to him (despite hypocritically claiming it to be "practice"). I didn't believe he was considerate of Kotonoha's feelings from the start when he tried to hide his relationship with Sekai. Makoto wasn't thinking about her feelings before Sekai, and so it was just a front for him to simply not deal with the situation, the milquetoast that he is. And then what happens? When Makoto wants sex, saying "no" to him even once sets him off. Sekai continuously allowed Makoto to do such things to her until the cake-baking scene. Sekai denied him for only that moment yet he didn't hesitate to sleep with more girls, essentially treating Sekai as "tiring" as Kotonoha was. This makes him a sex addict. All the while he was doing absolutely nothing about the situation with Kotonoha until much, much later, and he probably only rejected her just to get Kotonoha and Setsuna off his back. Then, Makoto went back to Kotonoha in episode 11. He claims to not have understood her feelings, and that he wasn't aware of how much he hurt her. There's one half of me that believes him to be somewhat sincere about it, and another half that tells me that Makoto only viewed Kotonoha as a "last resort" after all the other girls blocked him. This is the one part that stumps me over Makoto: had he truly gone back to Kotonoha, and was he telling the truth when he said that there would be no other girls for him? Judging by the ending I guess we will never know for sure, but I have a pretty good idea that while his intentions may have meant well then, it did not mean that he would have done good on his word. In the end, I ended up hating Makoto. Not simply because he was a naive girl-chaser caught up in lust, but because he was not willing to do anything about it. He claimed to be terrible for all he had done, but nothing indicated to me that he would have changed. While I do not believe his fate was justifiable in the least, he desperately needed to learn a few lessons... in other, less extreme ways of course. Last edited by Jeiku; 2007-10-15 at 00:56.

2007-10-16, 02:38	Link #247
sasuke13 Jyuunana Bunkatsu Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In a place where good anime is hard to find.	If Makoto just didn't agree to Sekai's help and go off to find Kotonoha, or play video games or some crap, he would still be alive and none of this would've happened...I think... __________________ Click here for my Blogger Click here for my DeviantArt Click Here for my Youtube Channel Click here for my friend's anime and gaming site

2007-10-16, 21:47	Link #248
Calca Expressionless Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Walking on the path known as life	One thing you have to give Makoto credit for Spoiler: He's one of the few male harem leads to actually take full advantage of a harem

2007-10-17, 20:50	Link #251
Haru~ My Lovely Bunny Chie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Philippines Age: 35	About Makoto, he can't hold back his desires and I think the trigger of this is the "seducement" and "practice"....and he had too much lust that he become a jerk... He changed from a virgin to a total playboy.....and when he realized how much lost he is....it's too late..... and I wonder if it would be good to see if Spoiler for punishment: in the end he got STD or AIDS and suffer more than this chop-chop thing... __________________ formerly rave_master16

2007-11-27, 00:01	Link #260
tripperazn Toyosaki Aki Scanlator Join Date: Nov 2007	I nominate Makoto for a Darwin Award. __________________

2007-10-15, 02:10	Link #242
InkMaster Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007	You bring up some great points Jeiku, but the way I see it is that he just got pulled in too fast into everything - from having nothing and just staring at girls from afar, to all the girls just suddenly coming onto him - guess that's what made him "snap" So while on one hand you can hate him all you want for being such a man-hoe, but on the other hand, you gotta put yourself in his shoes and think about what you would do in such a situation... Even I can't be 100% positive about my actions - while I do really hope that I would be able to stick w/ one girl - especially one as amazing as Kotonoha, I really don't know if I'd be able to handle all the pressure.

2007-10-15, 13:03	Link #243
Jeiku Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006	I know, which is why I feel that it wasn't 100% his fault for going after Sekai when she allowed him to take her. My anger towards him did not grow so much until Sekai denied him for just one time and he started going after several other girls at once, showing his immaturity and utter lack of self control. He had been doing it with Sekai for so long already that by then, he really ought to have thought before he acted.

2007-10-19, 22:13	Link #252
mr_winkie Producer Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Michigan Age: 39	Well at the very least, Makoto gets props for not being the typical male lead in other harem animes but I really can't have any sympathy for him as Sekai practiced her skills with a kitchen knife on him. He really made his own bed on this in the end for his attitude and handling of the situation between both Sekai and Kotonoha.

2007-10-21, 03:54	Link #253
redmeat Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	That's what Makato gets for being a dumbass. Too bad he was thinking with only his dick.

2007-10-26, 00:42	Link #255
X10A_Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Neo-Venezia...I wish!	I watched the finale first then got curious how it ended up that way. I went halfway up to ep05 and it was getting painfully obvious. An emotional rollercoaster centered on Kotohana was coming. Makoto is an absolute arse. We got the impression he was semi-decent at the beginning but his desire was really only centered on physical contact and sex. How I'm glad I'm not like him and I hope most men aren't sex predators like Makoto. I could not stand any more of Makoto and erased the rest without watching.

2007-11-14, 07:28	Link #258
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	I haven't watched the whole thing...only got conclave subs...but I spoiled myself on the ending just because I didn't feel like waiting anymore to find out if Makoto really got what he deserved (by episode 5, I just decided that the show could not possibly be worth watching if Makoto did not somehow suffer for his actions). Anyway, this thread made fairly good reading. I just wanted to protest a bit all these people talking about how there is even one redeeming or respectable thing about Makoto. You know, all he ever actually did was be utterly retardly lucky. That's the only reason he got laid. For everybody saying "he actually took advantage of his harem" or "he's a pimp", well, guess what? You could do it too! To the most minute detail. Makoto demonstrated absolutely no enviable abilities or qualities. You should all stop going against the grain and just hate him the way he was designed to be hated. I laughed in joyous victory like any other upon hearing the gory details of his death, but I find I can only empathise with those people against it who say "it was too good for him". I don't care if his death or some other outcome actually helped or hurt any of the other characters in the show. I just want him to hurt, hurt, hurt, hurt...because there's honestly nothing else you can do to him. You can't teach him. You can't change him. You can only smash his face in. What is utterly infuriating is the self-righteousness it would conjure up. People in suffering will always think "I don't deserve this". Deep down inside, they believe it. They believe that there is no good reason for them to lay like a dog for the rest of their lives in retribution for past sins. But O, does Makoto deserve it. (And I could never accept giving him the consolation of believing he does, because then his suffering would be meaningless) I've thought up a better ending for this anime. Makoto should have gotten aids. And then he should have continued, despite knowing this about himself, to fuck every woman he saw. And then he should have been brought to a hospital, surrounded by the women he infected, but also by other women. And he should have continued even then, even dying, in front of women whom he had killed, to fuck those other women, but with guilt and self-loathing the entire time. Sorry, I contradicted myself there. That would be teaching him.