Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[madmac]

If merchandise for other characters sold, it would be made.

My point is that people like to spin this as being (Hideously unpopular noncharacter) Nagi vs (Important Super-popular character) Hina when the reality is (Popular Main Character) Nagi vs (Even More Popular Side Character) Hina.

The fact that Hina is crushingly popular doesn't really matter at all when Nagi is basically#2. It's a fact of life in Harem/Romcoms that the main heroine is usually not the #1 vote magnet. Nagi consistently ranking in at 2nd or 3rd actually makes her more successful then most main characters.

[GDB]

Nagi's actually #3 on popularity polls, unless she dropped to #4 because of blue haired singer whose name I've forgotten. Athena is #2. Though I do agree it's not like she's not popular, but Hina's so massively more popular it's ridiculous. If I recall, she had around 4x as many votes as Nagi in almost every popularity contest.

Still doesn't mean Hata can't sabotage Hina to make Nagi look better. It could easily be that he doesn't know what to do with her either, but that wouldn't explain changing how she acts for no apparent reason.

[madmac]

I don't really buy that Hina has changed much, though. She's always been a contrast between being seemingly perfect and having a few really ridiculous flaws that are played up for laughs.

The only difference now is that she's used almost exclusively as a comic character so that's the side of her that comes out more. What else is Hata supposed to do? She has almost zero plot relevance, there hasn't been any action scenes for her to edge in on, and he can't focus too much on the romance angle when it's so very obviously not going anywhere. She's also too popular to leave out entirely, so comic relief it is.

I personally find her a lot more consistently entertaining over the last few years then she used to be for a long time, so different strokes and all that.

Alice was a cardboard cutout for the longest time, more out of neglect then anything else but since she's started getting her memories back she's been hilarious.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by madmac

I don't really buy that Hina has changed much, though. She's always been a contrast between being seemingly perfect and having a few really ridiculous flaws that are played up for laughs.

The only difference now is that she's used almost exclusively as a comic character so that's the side of her that comes out more.

Well... in the past, there was a higher ratio of chapters in which stuff actually happened, in various arcs (think for example School Sports event, Butler's Den, Greece etc.) in which Hina was used as a female Hayate, with her primary role being to help Hayate, who was helping the rest. Yes, her weaknesses were always used for a couple of laughs (I didn't mind at all), but it was her role to act as the straight man in Tsukkomis, offering protection and advice to others, particularly Hayate. This combination made her immensely popular.

In the recent months (years, actually), these 'action' arcs has become increasingly rare. Hata is concentrating more and more on gag chapters. In so far, I think you're right.

What else is Hata supposed to do?

Real honest? Grow a pair of balls and take the show out of limbo. Write a storyline with _lasting_ developments and think of a proper way to _end_ the story in the long run. At the very least, make Nagi developments permanent, FFS. Stop slamming the reset button every arc, and _resist_ the temptation to undo Nagi's maturing for another cheap Hikikomori gag.

She has almost zero plot relevance, there hasn't been any action scenes for her to edge in on, and he can't focus too much on the romance angle when it's so very obviously not going anywhere.

Which is why to _my_ knowledge, HnG is dying a slow death, at least in "the rest of the world", but as far as I am aware, also in Japan. The last sales numbers I saw were a far cry from the show in its prime. The fanbase has been bleeding members ever since Greece. Hata doesn't want to come out of his comfort zone, and people can't help but notice that the story is essentially going nowhere. The Ruka arc pretty much made this clear to the fans, he almost slapped the message into the fans' faces: I WILL NOT ALLOW ANY SUCCESSFUL ROMANCE BAR NAGI.

She's also too popular to leave out entirely, so comic relief it is.

...and you know what the funny result is? The Hina fans are getting increasingly pissed at Hata and disillusioned with the show. Some drop it, but the bulk keeps up reading scans/scanlations, still sending in Hina votes. And when they do, they increasingly do it to spite the author (I know I do). Same with A-tan fans. Sorry madmac, to my knowledge Nagi never made it past third place in popularity polls (which are usually conducted in Japan), always with a huuuuuge distance to the top.

You know which show this increasingly reminds me of? School Rumble. Its author, Kobayashi Jin, was also under pressure to commit Harima to either the much more popular Eri or Yakumo, but he stubbornly insisted on keeping the Tenma fixation. I remember that when he first ended School Rumble with essentially a slap in the fan's faces with a reset-all pseudo-Tenma ending, he almost killed his career as an artist. The fanbase was livid (I decided never to purchase anything related to him anymore) and his followup works literally _tanked_. It took 2 "I got it, forgive me" post-ending School Rumble arcs concluding the story decisively before he could make his peace again. I wonder if Hata is eventually going to end up in the same spot. Stubbornly writing against the wishes of the vast majority of the fanbase is risky.

My personal theory is that he added Fumi/Sharna to HnG to test the waters if they could be used as his "followup" manga should he ever decide to conclusively end HnG. Unfortunately, they didn't remotely seem to be popular enough for that (since they're also only gag-of-the-week characters, the same type of story that many fans like me are gradually getting fed up with in the first place).

At the moment, I only want the show to get SOMEWHERE. Writing down fan favorites like Hina or A-tan won't help making Nagi more popular, Mr. Hata. And I was literally howling in pain when he introduced yet another poor-but-nice girl falling for Hayate. Seriously? AGAIN?

I remember that a few months ago, Hata claimed that he was setting up for the conclusion of the Royal Palace backstory (and thus, the story in general, I hope). But more and more, I suspect that he is caught in the primary writer's trap: He knows that he _should_ conclude the story and start anew, but doesn't dare to. So he'll let it float in limbo until it's all dried up.

We'll see. I hope I'm wrong.

[madmac]

Eh, the School Rumble ending was objectively awful on multiple levels that didn't even touch on shipping.

The Ruka arc pretty much made this clear to the fans, he almost slapped the message into the fans' faces: I WILL NOT ALLOW ANY SUCCESSFUL ROMANCE BAR NAGI.

This is kinda hilarious, though. What message, dude? Nagi is the main character, was always the main character, and it could always not be any more obvious how things would end.

Likewise this was always primarily a gag manga, and while the Greek Arc was cool and all I don't understand people being shocked that a gag manga about Hayate and Nagi is still primarily a gag manga about Hayate and Nagi.

I don't begrude anyone not liking the series anymore or even being spiteful about it, but come on. It's not an EPIC BETRAYAL for the manga to putter along doing the same stuff it always did.

Hina fans hoping they could derail the entire direction of the series by pumping out enough popularity votes were always fooling themselves, that's all.

As for the series ending that's pretty obviously still happening as it has been for a while now. Do you think it's a coincidence that all these Kings Jewels are getting exploded so Hata doesn't have to worry about them anymore? The entire manga after the mangaka arc ended has been in clean up mode, running through dozens of loose ends hardly anyone but Hata still remembers and manically checking them off a list.

[madmac]

Now, I mean this seriously. I read/watch a lot of Rom Coms and my rule of thumb is that if I look at the main pairing and I'm not comfortable with them ending up together, then there's a good chance I'm not going to bother.

The maybe 2% chance the author will change their mind over the course of the series and go with minor character C I happen to like better is far too remote to be worth getting invested in.

Every time a new anime season kicks off I see a bunch of people getting all worked up about rooting for (Obviously doomed love interest) and while I totally get liking other characters better (Totally! I've been there a lot!) I am yet to be disappointed in this approach, unlike apparently thousands of other people. But that's just me.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by madmac

This is kinda hilarious, though. What message, dude? Nagi is the main character, was always the main character, and it could always not be any more obvious how things would end.

Really? Not to me, especially after the EotW arc, which Athena "won". But a few dozen chapters past EotW, and especially after "Cuties" and the latest batch of OVAs, it seems we have the writing on the wall. If your eye was so awesome that you could see this right from the start, kudos to you.

Likewise this was always primarily a gag manga, and while the Greek Arc was cool and all I don't understand people being shocked that a gag manga about Hayate and Nagi is still primarily a gag manga about Hayate and Nagi.

The thing is that it is _not_ simply a gag manga about Hayate and Nagi, at least it hasn't been in the past. This was _one_ aspect of the story, and if I see the fan reactions, certainly not the aspect that the majority of fans preferred.

I don't begrude anyone not liking the series anymore or even being spiteful about it, but come on. It's not an EPIC BETRAYAL for the manga to putter along doing the same stuff it always did.

Of course not, and I didn't call it an epic betrayal in the first place. But if you go to a "Tamago Superior" sushi bar with conveyor belt because it offers some of the best smoked salmon and eel around, and all of a sudden, you only get tamago anymore, then this _is_ deplorable in my book.

Hina fans hoping they could derail the entire direction of the series by pumping out enough popularity votes were always fooling themselves, that's all.

Heck no. But popularity polls are a way of giving feedback to the author, which is normally welcome. Except that Hata seems a bit annoyed by now that the fans still want something else (he made this clear in his feedback to the feedback).

As for the series ending that's pretty obviously still happening as it has been for a while now. Do you think it's a coincidence that all these Kings Jewels are getting exploded so Hata doesn't have to worry about them anymore? The entire manga after the mangaka arc ended has been in clean up mode, running through dozens of loose ends hardly anyone but Hata still remembers and manically checking them off a list.

Funny, because I get the exact opposite impression. If he wanted to end the story, why add yet another girl to the mix? Simply to add yet another 4th wall joke?

The way I see it, Hata is grasping at straws trying to drag things out, as usual. Nothing gets _resolved_, ever. Things gets _reset_.

Originally Posted by madmac

Now, I mean this seriously. I read/watch a lot of Rom Coms and my rule of thumb is that if I look at the main pairing and I'm not comfortable with them ending up together, then there's a good chance I'm not going to bother.

Except that there is no romance between Nagi and Hayate. Fierce loyalty from one side, and chuuni delusion from the other. I'm willing to predict that unless Hata makes massive lasting developments, the reaction from 3 out of 4 readers will be "lolwut??" if the OVA ED showing Nagi in a bridal gown and Hayate driving away comes to pass.

Also, as Hina fanboi, I wouldn't even mind "losing" properly. For me, her exit with Isumi at the end of EotW was a wonderfully touching, bittersweet closure, one of the strongest endings I've seen. I'd certainly prefer that to plopping her on the clown shelf, and I think that many A-tan shippers feel the same.

[madmac]

I'm just going to say that if Hata did have a diabolical plan to tank Hina's popularity, he'd probably come up with something better then to have her still show up a lot and making her funnier and still likeable. Just saying.

Likewise Alice existing always felt like a concession to Athena fans, to me. She didn't have anything remotely important to do until after the Mangaka arc but she was around and giving Athena fans a bit of hope instead of just having her absent for like four years.

Really? Not to me, especially after the EotW arc, which Athena "won". But a few dozen chapters past EotW, and especially after "Cuties" and the latest batch of OVAs, it seems we have the writing on the wall. If your eye was so awesome that you could see this right from the start, kudos to you.

It was obvious from volume one and the end of the Mykonos arc was itself a huuuuuge shout-out in Nagi's favor, so yeah apparently I'm just that awesome. (I don't see what's so complicated about it either. Explicit romantic developments between the two are verboten because Nagi would win instantly so instead everything is about reinforcing their "bond" while hinting things may change in the future. This is not even a unique premise.)

Also if you think Konoha is meant to be taken seriously instead of just stirring the pot I don't know what to tell you.

As for closure, that's something that will have to wait until even closer to the end of the series, unfortunately. Hina is too popular a character to take the Ruka early exit.

[Mentar]

I think most is said already, but this merits one more response.

Originally Posted by madmac

Explicit romantic developments between the two are verboten because Nagi would win instantly so instead everything is about reinforcing their "bond" while hinting things may change in the future. This is not even a unique premise.)

Just to make this clear: There is no romantic bond between Hayate and Nagi. To my knowledge, Hayate has not once considered Nagi as a romantic partner (as opposed to several other girls), and Nagi's conviction about Hayate being in love with her has never left chuuni status. It's an asymmetrical loyalty/chuuni bond.

Would non-Nagi endings compatible with HnG be possible? Yes, absolutely - from the storytelling aspect there would be no hindrances. He wouldn't even necessarily have to stop being her butler. However, it would demand _lasting developments_, something which Hata can't seem to stomach. Then again, it would require lasting developments to make a romantic linkup between Hayate and Nagi palatable, too.

Also if you think Konoha is meant to be taken seriously instead of just stirring the pot I don't know what to tell you.

You're a bit rude, you know? I listed Konoha as an example that in my opinion Hata is _not_ eagerly trying to tie up "dozens of loose ends". Otherwise he wouldn't be so busy creating new ones.

[madmac]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Hata is _not_ eagerly trying to tie up "dozens of loose ends". Otherwise he wouldn't be so busy creating new ones.

The whole Konohah storyline has been an exercise in cleaning up dumb little loose ends no ones cares about anymore (Saki and Wataru and Hamster, Aika's mystery fiance, Chiharu's secret maid life, the fate of "Video Koshien" and giving Izumi a pseudo-confession, ect. I didn't say they were major loose ends.

It also seems to be building on Hayate's creeping realization girls actually like him and encouraging Hamster and Hina to make one last push. Konohah herself is totally irrelevant except as a catalyst and comic character.

To pull a slightly older example, remember Robot 8 randomly showing up during the beach episode? That whole little escapade was actually intended to be a final send off for him and the professor, his fate previously being somewhat...murky. Hata outright said so on his blog so I'm not making this up.

Just to make this clear: There is no romantic bond between Hayate and Nagi. To my knowledge, Hayate has not once considered Nagi as a romantic partner (as opposed to several other girls), and Nagi's conviction about Hayate being in love with her has never left chuuni status. It's an asymmetrical loyalty/chuuni bond.

My point is that this is an entirely artificial and deliberate (and transparent) set-up, which is why you are surprised with recent developments and I am not. It's nothing more then a classic "Will they or won't they?" set up with the actual hook being "Oh that silly little girl, Hayate will never fall in love with her...or will he?"

It's no different then any shonen fight series ever starting off with "Oh you'll never beat that guy, he's too strong."

As I said, it's not even rare. Obviously the MC only expresses romantic interest in other girls that he will never end up with. It's completely safe to do so, locked down and secured by Hayate's butler status to make sure nothing ever comes of it.

Whereas the setup with Nagi and Hayate is a delicate one and Hata has to be much more cautious in keeping a careful balance so that the series can shoulder on consequence free.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by madmac

The whole Konohah storyline has been an exercise in cleaning up dumb little loose ends no ones cares about anymore (Saki and Wataru and Hamster, Aika's mystery fiance, Chiharu's secret maid life, the fate of "Video Koshien" and giving Izumi a pseudo-confession, ect. I didn't say they were major loose ends.

It also seems to be building on Hayate's creeping realization girls actually like him and encouraging Hamster and Hina to make one last push. Konohah herself is totally irrelevant except as a catalyst and comic character.

To pull a slightly older example, remember Robot 8 randomly showing up during the beach episode? That whole little escapade was actually intended to be a final send off for him and the professor, his fate previously being somewhat...murky. Hata outright said so on his blog so I'm not making this up.



My point is that this is an entirely artificial and deliberate (and transparent) set-up, which is why you are surprised with recent developments and I am not. It's nothing more then a classic "Will they or won't they?" set up with the actual hook being "Oh that silly little girl, Hayate will never fall in love with her...or will he?"

It's no different then any shonen fight series ever starting off with "Oh you'll never beat that guy, he's too strong."

As I said, it's not even rare. Obviously the MC only expresses romantic interest in other girls that he will never end up with. It's completely safe to do so, locked down and secured by Hayate's butler status to make sure nothing ever comes of it.

Whereas the setup with Nagi and Hayate is a delicate one and Hata has to be much more cautious in keeping a careful balance so that the series can shoulder on consequence free.

If the audience at large wishes to have the MC go with someone other than the 'main girl' and the author refuses to do so, they should stop buying the manga altogether to send that message across, that's what's needed to break such tropes.

[Anh_Minh]

Or they should stop reading manga altogether and stick to dating sims. Have the MC go out with whoever they want.

[AnimeFangirl]

Authors resisting fan pressure probably dates as far back as publishing itself does. Arthur Conan Doyle got sick of Sherlock Holmes and tried to kill him, but public pressure forced him to bring him back. And on the subject of shipping, who can forget the author of "Little Women" writing in her journal, "I won't marry Jo to Laurie to please anyone"? So will Hata go the Doyle route and pair Hayate with someone else or will he fight valiantly till the end? *grabs a bag of popcorn and waits*

[Katsu Koneko]

I've been rooting for Hayate & Nagi since day one yep. /rolls away

[Anh_Minh]

I haven't... but I don't demand perfection.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by madmac

My point is that this is an entirely artificial and deliberate (and transparent) set-up, which is why you are surprised with recent developments and I am not. It's nothing more then a classic "Will they or won't they?" set up with the actual hook being "Oh that silly little girl, Hayate will never fall in love with her...or will he?"

I beg to differ.
Though the setting of "will they won't they" is a legit one, it was never, not even once, at work in HnG.
Hayate and Nagi's relationship has always been, from the beginning up to now, portrayed as familial, with Hayate being a father/elder-brother figure to Nagi.
Though Nagi has her one-sided feelings toward Hayate, the relationship always end up sticking to the family-like bonds they have.

Had there been hints of romance every now and then, or even some minor developments, the set-up you propose would work, but as far as HnG goes, there's nothing.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by madmac

What else is Hata supposed to do?

Write a spinoff manga starring Hina so her fans can get their fix of her without feeling like she's being treated poorly? You know, like Misaka Mikoto fans get since Kamachi wants to keep Index as the main heroine despite Mikoto being massively more popular?

Like Mikoto, she even already has a supporting cast she can use. One of which wants to be a lesbian with her.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by Mentar

In the recent months (years, actually), these 'action' arcs has become increasingly rare. Hata is concentrating more and more on gag chapters. In so far, I think you're right.

If you read his notes in the earlier volumes, he often expressed concern over those action stories that he felt went too long. (Well, it was either him or his editor that felt this way.) Several times, he mentioned wanting to just do one-off gag chapters. Losing action stories reduces the chances of multi-chapter stories.

Personally, I think Hata-sensei is very mistaken, but that's just me.

Real honest? Grow a pair of balls and take the show out of limbo. Write a storyline with _lasting_ developments and think of a proper way to _end_ the story in the long run. At the very least, make Nagi developments permanent, FFS. Stop slamming the reset button every arc, and _resist_ the temptation to undo Nagi's maturing for another cheap Hikikomori gag.

Sometimes, I do wonder how much of this limbo is him and how much is Shogakukan milking the cow to death. It is not unheard of for manga publishers to "encourage" a mangaka to stretch out his work (Love Hina being the example that immediately springs to mind).

The Ruka arc pretty much made this clear to the fans, he almost slapped the message into the fans' faces: I WILL NOT ALLOW ANY SUCCESSFUL ROMANCE BAR NAGI.

I agree with you now, though when the Ruka arc ended, I wasn't in that camp. It wasn't until after I'd read the prototype chapter (which makes it clear from the start that this tale is supposed to be a romance tale between Nagi and Hayate), combined with that screen cap from OVA C that have made me give up on any ending other than Nagi x Hayate.

It isn't that I mind that result, but there's no romance between the two. On occasion, Nagi is shown to have interest in Hayate. Hayate cares for Nagi, but the romance element isn't there. I think Hata-sensei realized he put himself in a bind when he did the Greece arc because it really made Hayate x Athena a strong pairing. Looking back, I think that's why he did that image showing Athena handing Nagi's hat back to her, as if to say, "Even though I am best girl, this manga was created with the intent of a Nagi x Hayate ending, thus by giving you this hat, I am out of it."

You know which show this increasingly reminds me of? School Rumble. Its author, Kobayashi Jin, was also under pressure to commit Harima to either the much more popular Eri or Yakumo, but he stubbornly insisted on keeping the Tenma fixation.

That didn't bother me. As a teen guy, I had a fixation on a girl who became my image of a perfect girl. Heck, I still dream about her to this day (I am friends with her on FB, which may account for that), and since she never got married, I suppose I've never truly gotten over my fixation with her.

Regardless, School Rumble was all about unrequited love. Harima loved Tenma, but she only saw him as a friend and as a potential boyfriend for her sister, Yakumo. Yakumo fell for Harima, but for him, she was just Tenma's little sister and someone who helped him with his manga. Eri fell for him, but that's because he wouldn't fawn over her. For Harima, Eri was just a spoiled "ojou" who was friends with Tenma and occasionally helped him.

It took 2 "I got it, forgive me" post-ending School Rumble arcs concluding the story decisively before he could make his peace again.

I know about School Rumble Z -- is that where these two arcs are at?

I wonder if Hata is eventually going to end up in the same spot. Stubbornly writing against the wishes of the vast majority of the fanbase is risky.

As someone who writes occasionally, an authors characters are their babies. Since it is clear to me now that Hata-sensei wanted a Nagi x Hayate ending from the start, as an author, he's probably going to try to see that through.

Still, you have a point. I think of Genshiken, where Koi-sensei wanted Madarame and Saki to be the romantic couple. As he put it, he couldn't figure out a way to make that happen during Genshiken's run. So he created Spotted Flower and filled it with unnamed characters that look suspiciously like Genshiken characters, only here, the not-Madarame and the not-Saki have gotten married.

With Genshiken Nidaime proving pretty popular, I think that Koi-sensei may still try to work a Madarame x Saki hookup before all is said and done.

My personal theory is that he added Fumi/Sharna to HnG to test the waters if they could be used as his "followup" manga should he ever decide to conclusively end HnG. Unfortunately, they didn't remotely seem to be popular enough for that (since they're also only gag-of-the-week characters, the same type of story that many fans like me are gradually getting fed up with in the first place).

Fumi was awesome in the beginning. However, giving her a constant SD face kills the character.

And I was literally howling in pain when he introduced yet another poor-but-nice girl falling for Hayate. Seriously? AGAIN?

That's what made me wonder if his publisher is trying to milk the cow to death.

I remember that a few months ago, Hata claimed that he was setting up for the conclusion of the Royal Palace backstory (and thus, the story in general, I hope). But more and more, I suspect that he is caught in the primary writer's trap: He knows that he _should_ conclude the story and start anew, but doesn't dare to. So he'll let it float in limbo until it's all dried up.

Well, he did put off telling the flashback story with Athena, but that was when the manga went to the next level for me.

Originally Posted by madmac

Eh, the School Rumble ending was objectively awful on multiple levels that didn't even touch on shipping.

I need to read the last volume someday.

Likewise this was always primarily a gag manga, and while the Greek Arc was cool and all I don't understand people being shocked that a gag manga about Hayate and Nagi is still primarily a gag manga about Hayate and Nagi.

You are correct -- this was primarily a gag manga. After the flashback arc showing Hayate with Athena as kids, I suddenly realized that Hata-sensei had been wrapping foreshadowing and other plot elements in the cloak of a gag manga. So the series went to another level for me as even the whackiest gag could actually be a clue as to something coming down the pipe.

Seeing how Hata-sensei has done such a massive job of keeping track of plot threads, it is easy for fans like me to want the story (or stories) to push forward while retaining a gag element, or even the occasional gag breaks.

Hina fans hoping they could derail the entire direction of the series by pumping out enough popularity votes were always fooling themselves, that's all.

Well, the trap of any harem series is choosing the one girl. Of all the harem titles I've read or watched, only one manages to keep things clear from the start whom the choice will be -- Ai Yori Aoshi. I don't think any fan of that manga (or anime) had any delusions that any of the other girls would end up with Kaoru. That's because of how the story is written -- Kaoru and Aoi have romance that cannot be publicly revealed, so while the other girls fall for Kaoru, the reader knows their love is doomed as it will always be Kaoru and Aoi.

For harem series where there's a chosen girl at the start, but for whatever reason, she and the lead male aren't a couple even though they like each other, the harem girls that join later can prove more interesting than the initial girl. Thus you get shippers wanting other girls to be the chosen one. At that point, the author can either (1) have the hero choose the girl the author picked at the beginning; (2) have the hero make a choice, but not reveal it to the audience; (3) have the hero choose a popular girl that wasn't the original girl; or (4) have the hero choose 'em all.

No matter which choice is made, people are going to get angry, and that's the trap of the harem genre. As a canon Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohki fan, I was a Ryoko x Tenchi shipper. However, I was eventually able to accept the notion that Kajishima-sensei had a harem ending in mind, and that ending worked in terms of the world that he'd created (the politics of Jurai). Others were (and still are) quite angry with this choice.

In Saber Marionette J, the hero makes his choice, but the audience doesn't know which girl he chose. As such, a lot of people were angry with that, deeming it as big of a cop-out as a harem ending.

Basically, Hata-sensei is screwed no matter where he goes. I think the route that would cause the least anger would be an Athena route (and I don't say that just because I ship that way), followed by a Hina route, but even still, there'd be angry people no matter which option he chooses.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Heck no. But popularity polls are a way of giving feedback to the author, which is normally welcome. Except that Hata seems a bit annoyed by now that the fans still want something else (he made this clear in his feedback to the feedback).

What exactly did he say?

Except that there is no romance between Nagi and Hayate. Fierce loyalty from one side, and chuuni delusion from the other.

That's Hata-sensei's biggest problem. The Nagi from the prototype manga is one I could seen Hayate romantically falling for, not just one Hayate cares about as someone important to whom he owes his life. Hata-sensei changed Nagi to make her tsundere for gag purposes, and it was funny. He also made it so that it was clear that Hayate wouldn't be interested in Nagi in a romantic or sexual way. Nagi has an unrequited crush on Hayate, but even that is pretty mild (other than not wanting to share Hayate with anyone). There's no romantic spark between them. There is one between Hayate and Athena, Hayate and Hina, Hayate and Ruka (though in the past), and even Hayate and Ayumu.

[quote]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Would non-Nagi endings compatible with HnG be possible? Yes, absolutely - from the storytelling aspect there would be no hindrances. He wouldn't even necessarily have to stop being her butler. However, it would demand _lasting developments_, something which Hata can't seem to stomach. Then again, it would require lasting developments to make a romantic linkup between Hayate and Nagi palatable, too.

Lasting development would kill easy gag opportunities, which is where I think the problem lies. As I said earlier, the Nagi from the prototype manga is one I could see Hayate becoming romantically involved with over time. The updated Nagi was changed to increase the gags. While Nagi has had some development, actually causing her to have pivot points that last (which the doujinshi arc should have been) kill her gag potential, and Hata-sensei is clearly loathe to give up gag material.

Originally Posted by aldw

If the audience at large wishes to have the MC go with someone other than the 'main girl' and the author refuses to do so, they should stop buying the manga altogether to send that message across, that's what's needed to break such tropes.

They've already done this in the U.S. The only reason Viz still releases two volumes a year rather than drop it is because they have to (as I understand it).

Originally Posted by GDB

Write a spinoff manga starring Hina so her fans can get their fix of her without feeling like she's being treated poorly? You know, like Misaka Mikoto fans get since Kamachi wants to keep Index as the main heroine despite Mikoto being massively more popular?

Ah Mikoto. She truly is best girl in the Index franchise. It was a great decision to give her the Railgun franchise. Plus, the characters in Railgun are way more interesting that the Index characters.

Like Mikoto, she even already has a supporting cast she can use. One of which wants to be a lesbian with her.

I may be brain dead here, but who wants to scissor-scissor with Hina?

[Lisemer]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Ah Mikoto. She truly is best girl in the Index franchise. It was a great decision to give her the Railgun franchise. Plus, the characters in Railgun are way more interesting that the Index characters.

I may be brain dead here, but who wants to scissor-scissor with Hina?

Mikoto is best girl in Index, but now fans of Index (LN) are fawning over Othinus and fans of Railgun are fawning over Misaki so the shipping wars are worse than ever

Btw, the lesbian one is Miki, the member of the trio with straight grey hair.

[Sean Gaffney]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Basically, Hata-sensei is screwed no matter where he goes. I think the route that would cause the least anger would be an Athena route (and I don't say that just because I ship that way), followed by a Hina route, but even still, there'd be angry people no matter which option he chooses.

The trouble is, Hayate the Combat Butler was in trouble the moment it began, at least in North America, as its lead girl was a) underage to the point where it was hard to ignore (as opposed to say, Sailor Moon, with its 14-year-olds in romances), and b) frequently angry or curt with the hero in the classic "twintails tsundere" way.

Both these traits are wildly popular in Japan and wildly unpopular here (Only Toradora and FMP have really escaped the 'lead angry girl is hated by a majority of Western fandom' cliche). Add to that the fact that by the time North America noticed Hayate as a franchise, Hina was on the rise, and Nagi never had any opportunity to get a fanbase here.