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kuromitsu · 2013-09-25, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sound of Azure

Rei truly embodied "for the team", didn't he?

"For the other team," that is...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainbowMagnet

The Rin swap with Rei bugged the hell out of me. I probably wouldn't have cared as much if they didn't spend the previous episodes showing how Rei felt left out and was finallly happy to be a real team with them from now on, but they did. The director said that this was an anime about the bonds of five people, but honestly all I see is that of 4 people, and I'm not including Rei, because for some reason he conveniently gets left out time and time again.

Seriously. I'm probably more pissed about this than I should be, but what the hell, writers. What the hell.

If Rin being annoying all along hadn't been enough, this ending really soured the whole series for me.

GDiddy · 2013-09-25, 16:25

Oh fucking hell, Free writers...

Spoiler:

mistress_kisara · 2013-09-25, 17:43

That was pretty enjoyable and I like all the characters I guess that was a fitting end

Looking forward to S2 (if there's really one!)

Dop · 2013-09-25, 17:44

Well, I really liked that, Rei's awesome spirit of self-sacrifice (for the team) pretty much led to the redemption of Rin as a character and helped him move on with his life - no longer pursuing his father's dream but his own.

When they played the substitute I did think "Surely they'll get disqualified for this?" and was pleased when they actually did. Obviously this gives them a goal for the next series.

I did like the last minute fake-out, but glad it was a fake-out all the same.

I'll definitely be watching the second series when it arrives next year.

kuromitsu · 2013-09-25, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dop

Well, I really liked that, Rei's awesome spirit of self-sacrifice (for the team) pretty much led to the redemption of Rin as a character and helped him move on with his life - no longer pursuing his father's dream but his own.

Which is another thing that bothers me. Rin did absolutely nothing to earn being redeemed. (Everyone else did the work, and it was possible because of Rei giving up his place for him.) He whines, he throws tantrums, he's an asshole to everyone - but once he ragequits suddenly the whole world is running to help him because... he deserves it, or something. It's like he's getting rewarded for not doing anything about his issues and letting others take care of everything for him, because he's too busy angsting.

And in the end he got his way without undergoing any real growth or change. He swims with the others and suddenly all his issues are magically resolved, he has his old friends back, Rei is totes okay with everything, his kouhai still adores him, his team doesn't punish him and in fact his captain compliments him, his life is on the right track... after an entire series of wangsting, throwing tantrums, and being an asshole to people. No, a character having an angsty past is no excuse for something like this.

ginger02 · 2013-09-25, 18:49

Music, voice-acting, and animation was great. Loved the OST of the show, and excited for the 2nd season.

Still bothered by the switch like most everyone else on here. I think if they did it and Rin felt more reflective, sad, or depressed, I wouldn't mind as much. But he threw the biggest fit in the show ever and got what he wanted and more without doing much for anyone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Which is another thing that bothers me. Rin did absolutely nothing to earn being redeemed. (Everyone else did the work, and it was possible because of Rei giving up his place for him.) He whines, he throws tantrums, he's an asshole to everyone - but once he ragequits suddenly the whole world is running to help him because... he deserves it, or something. It's like he's getting rewarded for not doing anything about his issues and letting others take care of everything for him, because he's too busy angsting.

And in the end he got his way without undergoing any real growth or change. He swims with the others and suddenly all his issues are magically resolved, he has his old friends back, Rei is totes okay with everything, his kouhai still adores him, his team doesn't punish him and in fact his captain compliments him, his life is on the right track... after an entire series of wangsting, throwing tantrums, and being an asshole to people. No, a character having an angsty past is no excuse for something like this.

I think this was my issue too.

Cloudedmind · 2013-09-25, 18:54

On another note I couldn't take Rin's emotional crying scene to seriously with those shark teeth. It might have been better if they'd given him normal teeth for that. :P

Irenesharda · 2013-09-25, 19:45

So far this was the best episode yet. It was a finale that was the best I've seen this season so far. It went exactly the way I wanted it to and I was amazed and the beauty of the relay race.

The amazing feels in this episode were just....I am totally speechless. Poor Rin finally broke down and we found out how much of his self-esteem had been broken ever since Australia. That whole tough guy act was a facade to cover up just how bad he was hurting.

I am so glad that everything came out and all of them became friends again. I loved everything about this episode and it really made this series a keeper for me. Though they didn't go to nationals, it didn't matter. They gained their friend and teammate back. And it looks like Rin might be leaving Samezuka? I will definitely get this on DVD and I was so glad that I watched it despite the hype. I will be highly anticipating next season in July 2014.

I give this episode a 10/10, and the series an 8.45/10.

GDiddy · 2013-09-25, 20:11

I enjoyed this series overall...I originally just wanted to watch it to piss off the haters but found myself loving this series and liking the cast for the most part.

Spoiler:

Irenesharda · 2013-09-25, 20:46

Honestly, I don't know why everyone was surprised or disappointed with the exchange of Rin for Rei. I had predicted and expected it all the way back at the last race, when they mentioned that Rin's best event was the Butterfly stroke.

Whether people wanted it or not, the original story this came from, was about the original 4 boys Haru, Nagisa, Makoto, and Rin. The start of this series was about the same 4 boys. The entire plot of this series was about the 4 boys and their relationship with each other. Yes, Rei became a part of it, but being an anime-only character whose job in the story was really, unfortunately, to be the necessary 4th team member until the 3 boys reconciled with Rin, kind of set him up for this situation.

Everyone knew with the way this story was framed, Rin and Haru were going to get to swim together in the finale. Haru needed Rin in that race just as much as Rin needed Haru. It was a downer that they didn't go to nationals, but this show has stressed over and over again how it's not winning that counts but the fact that everyone swims together and that was what was important to the boys.

Some might call Rin's outburst childish, but I'm not surprised and he IS a teenager. He carries a lot of low self-esteem ever since Australia, and he used his angry and cynical persona as a shield against others and even in his own mind. All the emotions that have been going through him since the prefectuals, on top of feeling like he failed his father and himself, on top of being cut from the relay which caused his poor performance in the last race, caused everything to erupt in him, and that facade shattered which cause his outburst with his teammate and his anger at Haru. He needed to be able to swim with Haru and the others for his own emotional and mental well-being, and I think Rei understood that. Rei also understood that none of his teammates and especially Haru would do their best if Rin wasn't there, because in the end, all 5 of them are a team. And Rin was the member that had been hurting all this time, and he needed to be in that relay more than Rei at that moment.

Maybe I'm just more understanding towards Rin than others, but I can not only see where he was coming from, I got emotional right along with him.

Triple_R · 2013-09-25, 20:58

I have mixed feelings about the switch. In addition to the valid critiques others have made, it does stretch realism quite a bit, though at least they had the good sense to have this result in a disqualification.

On the other hand, I see the meta reasons for this choice. The old swimming team, the original four very close friends, reunited again in one big shining moment of awesome to cap it all off, so closely mirroring what they shared as kids. It is emotionally powerful and resonant if you're able to forgive Rin. And while it does rob Rei of the spotlight, it also makes him seem impressively altruistic and selfless.

However, there was one thing that I think would have given the narrative greater weight. And that's a real heart-to-heart between Rin and Gou over their father, given how much Rin has been influenced by his father's legacy (and perhaps Gou has been influenced as well, in her own way). It's a shame that there was never a scene like this.

But the swimming and water itself was certainly gloriously animated, and a truly masterful feast for the eyes. On visual quality alone, this finale was excellent, more than making up for whatever issues plot or characterization may have had.

9/10 for the finale, and hopefully in the sequel Rei will get his chance to shine.

Master_Yoma · 2013-09-25, 21:03

Well it was a very good ending

Spoiler for Awww:

8/10 Come on next summer for a new season

king12354 · 2013-09-25, 22:15

At first glance, the dialogue seems uplifting and grand but it didn't really make any sense. I still don't understand why they have to swim with each other even though they considered themselves "teammates". The characters are too simple and the plot feels empty of any meaning. It's not about swimming, it's not about being the best, it's not about overcoming challenges; it seems the theme of Free! is to have fun with friends? Okaaayy.

Puu · 2013-09-25, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

He needed to be able to swim with Haru and the others for his own emotional and mental well-being, and I think Rei understood that. Rei also understood that none of his teammates and especially Haru would do their best if Rin wasn't there, because in the end, all 5 of them are a team. And Rin was the member that had been hurting all this time, and he needed to be in that relay more than Rei at that moment.

Maybe I'm just more understanding towards Rin than others, but I can not only see where he was coming from, I got emotional right along with him.

No, he did not need to swim with Haru and the others and have them sacrifice their own success for his issues. I think it's great that his friends stuck out for him and gave him a huge favor and it shows a lot about how much they love him and care for him (Rei, especially, for someone who didn't know him for as long as the others did) but really, what does this say? That it's totally alright to throw tantrums, to be mean to your friends, to crush them, to disregard people who are trying to genuinely cheer you up and help you and befriend you-- to do nothing but wallow in self-pity because your friends, who you've been mean to, will definitely bail you out anyway at the expense of their own personal achievements?

I just, find it really disappointing and the events in this episode pretty much belittles the development from last episode. I didn't like Rin much, but last episode, I saw his character turn for the better and was, genuinely, hopeful for him this episode. What do I get instead? Him not learning anything at all and throwing another one of his temper tantrums only to... what? Be rewarded by everyone falling all over themselves to appease him and get him to not quit swimming.

Irenesharda · 2013-09-25, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puu

No, he did not need to swim with Haru and the others and have them sacrifice their own success for his issues. I think it's great that his friends stuck out for him and gave him a huge favor and it shows a lot about how much they love him and care for him (Rei, especially, for someone who didn't know him for as long as the others did) but really, what does this say? That it's totally alright to throw tantrums, to be mean to your friends, to crush them, to disregard people who are trying to genuinely cheer you up and help you and befriend you-- to do nothing but wallow in self-pity because your friends, who you've been mean to, will definitely bail you out anyway at the expense of their own personal achievements?

I just, find it really disappointing and the events in this episode pretty much belittles the development from last episode. I didn't like Rin much, but last episode, I saw his character turn for the better and was, genuinely, hopeful for him this episode. What do I get instead? Him not learning anything at all and throwing another one of his temper tantrums only to... what? Be rewarded by everyone falling all over themselves to appease him and get him to not quit swimming.

I gracefully disagree with almost all your points and stand by what I said.

I think that Rin's psychological and emotional well-being needed the confidence boost and that he had been suffering all this time from being away from his friends and yet was too damaged and stubborn to admit it, even to himself. I think that he did learn what he needed to, even if that fact was gratefully inferred rather than told to us and shoved in our face. He was a teenager acting out because of deep-seated self-esteem issues. That's not that unusual. And most teens learn not when being punished, but rather when given the correct support they need.

Also, I gave this up as a sports anime long ago, it's has long been more about the relationship of these boys. and the swimming just provided plot support and the setting. This was about the friendship and relationship that all 5 shared while they learned a sport that solidified their feelings towards each other. These boys could always go back to regional and even on to nationals if they wanted to, but they only had one shot to get their friend back. Rin was more important to them then any sort of race. Rin discovered this as well after his win against Haru. He realized that his triumph was hollow without his friends being there, which is why he went into the relay, so that in his own way he could swim with them.

Now, I know I'm not going to convince you of anything, just as you're not going to convince me. So we just have our own opinions. Just as simple as that.

ginger02 · 2013-09-25, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Which is another thing that bothers me. Rin did absolutely nothing to earn being redeemed. (Everyone else did the work, and it was possible because of Rei giving up his place for him.) He whines, he throws tantrums, he's an asshole to everyone - but once he ragequits suddenly the whole world is running to help him because... he deserves it, or something. It's like he's getting rewarded for not doing anything about his issues and letting others take care of everything for him, because he's too busy angsting.

And in the end he got his way without undergoing any real growth or change. He swims with the others and suddenly all his issues are magically resolved, he has his old friends back, Rei is totes okay with everything, his kouhai still adores him, his team doesn't punish him and in fact his captain compliments him, his life is on the right track... after an entire series of wangsting, throwing tantrums, and being an asshole to people. No, a character having an angsty past is no excuse for something like this.

oh to elaborate on my point (since my laptop was dying lol):

Like i said earlier, if he was really sad, depressed, and a bit more reflective, i think that point would have been okay. I guess it did annoy me how he threw such a big fit and no consequences. That's an issue with shows that have a big motif of friendship. They tend to go to an extreme when it comes to forgiveness. Now, i think we should all be more forgiving. Still, no one even really scolded him, not even his captain. Everyone cheered him on, forgave him, no one was mad, he gets so punishment, gets his friends back. I wanted Kou to slap him since episode 4. I know he needed his friend, i just wish it happened differently, like I said in the beginning. I dunno, i don't like the message that sends, since he was a real douche for most of the show. He treats his friends terribly and they all drop everything to help him and everyone forgives him. Meanwhile, people who treat their friends great are needing saving and no one lifts a finger. The world is very cruel.

I find it very different compared to Haru's angst. His was explained well, and we saw him grow throughout because of his friends and swimming, and not in an instant.

At least Rei went from being a bit of an idiot at the beginning of the series to a noble idiot now.

Next season i do want to see more Kou and delve into her character more. She fell to the wayside as the series progressed to focus on the boys. I was expecting something huge from her.

I really loved that end card though

Gravitas Free Zone · 2013-09-26, 00:05

Iwatobi+Rin did win the relay. I suppose it is possible that Rin's butterfly leg time was astonishing enough that his captain didn't want to dump Rin for the stunt. (And they put Samezuka's captain in the end card.)

Puu · 2013-09-26, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginger02

Meanwhile, people who treat their friends great are needing saving and no one lifts a finger. The world is very cruel.

I felt bad for Rei in the last few minutes of the show, indeed. The guy needs to ditch swimming and start starring in his own fabulous figure-skating show. Screw Rin and his friends. Be awesome and fab on your own, Rei!

It was such a show of great character that he was able to sacrifice for a guy he didn't even like much for his friends....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

These boys could always go back to regional and even on to nationals if they wanted to, but they only had one shot to get their friend back. Rin was more important to them then any sort of race. Rin discovered this as well after his win against Haru. He realized that his triumph was hollow without his friends being there, which is why he went into the relay, so that in his own way he could swim with them.

Now, I know I'm not going to convince you of anything, just as you're not going to convince me. So we just have our own opinions. Just as simple as that.

And that's fine

I get this part. They thought it was the only way they could get to Rin and I see where they're coming from.

Randomly, I think what bothered me most about this finale is that it sort of cemented that Rin was The Character of this show. This show was basically "Rin and His Gigantic Issues" and how everyone is basically just a tool to get him to go find his good side again. There was just too much emphasis on his character arc, even when we got to Haru's character development arc, it still felt like The Rin show.

Seeing his character arc end without him really pulling any weight towards it ... it feels like the writers had just been too biased to him.

Haru learned to put an effort into noticing his friends, to talk more, to be more supportive. Rei manned up and dealt with his feelings of being a replacement by confronting Rin. Makoto and Nagisa.... well, they sort of didn't really get any character development going on in the same level as Haru and Rei and Rin. In contrast Rin ... I don't know, Rin just did his thing, acted out, moped, and it was just sort of.... so self-centered.

I think seeing him stop and go "What about you, Rei?" to show that he's not all about just himself would've gone a long way towards making it seem like he... I don't know, learned something before suddenly being warm and fluffy again in the end and thinking about his team?

NoemiChan · 2013-09-26, 01:03

It ended. Nah, I'll might forget this anime soon enough.

Anh_Minh · 2013-09-26, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puu

I felt bad for Rei in the last few minutes of the show, indeed. The guy needs to ditch swimming and start starring in his own fabulous figure-skating show. Screw Rin and his friends. Be awesome and fab on your own, Rei!

It was such a show of great character that he was able to sacrifice for a guy he didn't even like much for his friends....

And that's fine

I get this part. They thought it was the only way they could get to Rin and I see where they're coming from.

Randomly, I think what bothered me most about this finale is that it sort of cemented that Rin was The Character of this show. This show was basically "Rin and His Gigantic Issues" and how everyone is basically just a tool to get him to go find his good side again. There was just too much emphasis on his character arc, even when we got to Haru's character development arc, it still felt like The Rin show.

Seeing his character arc end without him really pulling any weight towards it ... it feels like the writers had just been too biased to him.

Haru learned to put an effort into noticing his friends, to talk more, to be more supportive. Rei manned up and dealt with his feelings of being a replacement by confronting Rin. Makoto and Nagisa.... well, they sort of didn't really get any character development going on in the same level as Haru and Rei and Rin. In contrast Rin ... I don't know, Rin just did his thing, acted out, moped, and it was just sort of.... so self-centered.

I think seeing him stop and go "What about you, Rei?" to show that he's not all about just himself would've gone a long way towards making it seem like he... I don't know, learned something before suddenly being warm and fluffy again in the end and thinking about his team?

He might have learned that being an ass has consequences... except it totally didn't. He still got to swim with his friends, he still got a spot on his school's swimming team, he's still got a puppy kouhai.

2013-09-25, 16:25	Link #1382
GDiddy Sisterhood of the Desu Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: in a van by the river	Oh fucking hell, Free writers... Spoiler: Thanks for spoiling what should've been an awesome episode by shitting on Rei. __________________

2013-09-25, 19:45	Link #1388
Irenesharda Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Chicago	So far this was the best episode yet. It was a finale that was the best I've seen this season so far. It went exactly the way I wanted it to and I was amazed and the beauty of the relay race. The amazing feels in this episode were just....I am totally speechless. Poor Rin finally broke down and we found out how much of his self-esteem had been broken ever since Australia. That whole tough guy act was a facade to cover up just how bad he was hurting. I am so glad that everything came out and all of them became friends again. I loved everything about this episode and it really made this series a keeper for me. Though they didn't go to nationals, it didn't matter. They gained their friend and teammate back. And it looks like Rin might be leaving Samezuka? I will definitely get this on DVD and I was so glad that I watched it despite the hype. I will be highly anticipating next season in July 2014. I give this episode a 10/10, and the series an 8.45/10. __________________ "Someone who cannot forgive lies or secrets, will never trust another." - Major Kyosuke Hyobu

2013-09-25, 20:11	Link #1389
GDiddy Sisterhood of the Desu Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: in a van by the river	I enjoyed this series overall...I originally just wanted to watch it to piss off the haters but found myself loving this series and liking the cast for the most part. Spoiler: Though this last episode was ruined by Rin's temper tantrum which made me feel sorry for Rei. Suoh Captain should've kicked his ass off the team anyway. __________________

2013-09-25, 20:46	Link #1390
Irenesharda Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Chicago	Honestly, I don't know why everyone was surprised or disappointed with the exchange of Rin for Rei. I had predicted and expected it all the way back at the last race, when they mentioned that Rin's best event was the Butterfly stroke. Whether people wanted it or not, the original story this came from, was about the original 4 boys Haru, Nagisa, Makoto, and Rin. The start of this series was about the same 4 boys. The entire plot of this series was about the 4 boys and their relationship with each other. Yes, Rei became a part of it, but being an anime-only character whose job in the story was really, unfortunately, to be the necessary 4th team member until the 3 boys reconciled with Rin, kind of set him up for this situation. Everyone knew with the way this story was framed, Rin and Haru were going to get to swim together in the finale. Haru needed Rin in that race just as much as Rin needed Haru. It was a downer that they didn't go to nationals, but this show has stressed over and over again how it's not winning that counts but the fact that everyone swims together and that was what was important to the boys. Some might call Rin's outburst childish, but I'm not surprised and he IS a teenager. He carries a lot of low self-esteem ever since Australia, and he used his angry and cynical persona as a shield against others and even in his own mind. All the emotions that have been going through him since the prefectuals, on top of feeling like he failed his father and himself, on top of being cut from the relay which caused his poor performance in the last race, caused everything to erupt in him, and that facade shattered which cause his outburst with his teammate and his anger at Haru. He needed to be able to swim with Haru and the others for his own emotional and mental well-being, and I think Rei understood that. Rei also understood that none of his teammates and especially Haru would do their best if Rin wasn't there, because in the end, all 5 of them are a team. And Rin was the member that had been hurting all this time, and he needed to be in that relay more than Rei at that moment. Maybe I'm just more understanding towards Rin than others, but I can not only see where he was coming from, I got emotional right along with him. __________________ "Someone who cannot forgive lies or secrets, will never trust another." - Major Kyosuke Hyobu

2013-09-25, 20:58	Link #1391
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	I have mixed feelings about the switch. In addition to the valid critiques others have made, it does stretch realism quite a bit, though at least they had the good sense to have this result in a disqualification. On the other hand, I see the meta reasons for this choice. The old swimming team, the original four very close friends, reunited again in one big shining moment of awesome to cap it all off, so closely mirroring what they shared as kids. It is emotionally powerful and resonant if you're able to forgive Rin. And while it does rob Rei of the spotlight, it also makes him seem impressively altruistic and selfless. However, there was one thing that I think would have given the narrative greater weight. And that's a real heart-to-heart between Rin and Gou over their father, given how much Rin has been influenced by his father's legacy (and perhaps Gou has been influenced as well, in her own way). It's a shame that there was never a scene like this. But the swimming and water itself was certainly gloriously animated, and a truly masterful feast for the eyes. On visual quality alone, this finale was excellent, more than making up for whatever issues plot or characterization may have had. 9/10 for the finale, and hopefully in the sequel Rei will get his chance to shine. __________________

2013-09-25, 17:43	Link #1383
mistress_kisara Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008	That was pretty enjoyable and I like all the characters I guess that was a fitting end Looking forward to S2 (if there's really one!)

2013-09-25, 17:44	Link #1384
Dop Mmmm.... Join Date: Sep 2006	Well, I really liked that, Rei's awesome spirit of self-sacrifice (for the team) pretty much led to the redemption of Rin as a character and helped him move on with his life - no longer pursuing his father's dream but his own. When they played the substitute I did think "Surely they'll get disqualified for this?" and was pleased when they actually did. Obviously this gives them a goal for the next series. I did like the last minute fake-out, but glad it was a fake-out all the same. I'll definitely be watching the second series when it arrives next year.

2013-09-25, 18:54	Link #1387
Cloudedmind Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: California Age: 38	On another note I couldn't take Rin's emotional crying scene to seriously with those shark teeth. It might have been better if they'd given him normal teeth for that. :P

2013-09-25, 21:03	Link #1392
Master_Yoma Nekokota Festival Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lost in the Fairy Forest	Well it was a very good ending Spoiler for Awww: Every one was swimming together and got first place but they got disqualified for having Rin there 8/10 Come on next summer for a new season __________________

2013-09-25, 22:15	Link #1393
king12354 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007	At first glance, the dialogue seems uplifting and grand but it didn't really make any sense. I still don't understand why they have to swim with each other even though they considered themselves "teammates". The characters are too simple and the plot feels empty of any meaning. It's not about swimming, it's not about being the best, it's not about overcoming challenges; it seems the theme of Free! is to have fun with friends? Okaaayy.

2013-09-26, 00:05	Link #1397
Gravitas Free Zone Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012	Iwatobi+Rin did win the relay. I suppose it is possible that Rin's butterfly leg time was astonishing enough that his captain didn't want to dump Rin for the stunt. (And they put Samezuka's captain in the end card.)

2013-09-26, 01:03	Link #1399
NoemiChan Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 36	It ended. Nah, I'll might forget this anime soon enough.