To Aru Majutsu no Index - Character Discussion - Kamijo Touma

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I don't see it anywhere though, are you sure it's this year's?

There's a thread on 4chan, and it has images of the magazine to prove its legit, but unfortunately I'm on my phone right now, so can't post them here. Also, can't translate japanese ^^'

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

There's a thread on 4chan, and it has images of the magazine to prove its legit, but unfortunately I'm on my phone right now, so can't post them here. Also, can't translate japanese ^^'

Hmmm... I see, well I'll keep both eyes and ears out for anything then.

Nevermind, it's out.

[Acer]

next year with Index III and our hero saving the world, he should get the first position.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Acer

next year with Index III and our hero saving the world, he should get the first position.

Not yet. That would be in the 4th season.

[Acer]

in part to save the world I referred in his fight against Othinus, not the final event in vol 22.

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

He lost to Accelerator the last time.



I don't see it anywhere though, are you sure it's this year's?

they never actually went up against each other but yeah overall.


and yes you should go to the raildex facebook page because touma is up right now.

[Goldzero]

touMAN is ranked 2nd place best male character and 3rd overall. he got one rank higher but sadly accelerator went down.....

[allfictions]

Mikoto is first, of course

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Mikoto is first, of course

while my love for mikoto is certainly strong i just can't accept that since none of her scenes can compare to kamijou or accelerator in NT even with her awesome moments in NT8. saddens me to see that actually but its great index is getting better respect.

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

He lost to Accelerator the last time.



I don't see it anywhere though, are you sure it's this year's?

by last time you do mean last year 2012 right? in overall yes but they never went up against each other in general.

[Goldzero]

can someone message me if touma is still in ISML cause i have no idea how this works and hoping to know hes in it still.

[Master Assassin]

I just found something frightening:

Another fan nickname for Touma in Pixiv!

King of Women Hunters (IKEMENtius)
婦女狩りの王(イケメンティウス)

[ACertainStark]

Perfect nickname.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by ACertainStark

Perfect nickname.

It really is though.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by Master Assassin

I just found something frightening:

Another fan nickname for Touma in Pixiv!

King of Women Hunters (IKEMENtius)
婦女狩りの王(イケメンティウス)

Holy smoke, that's awesome!

By the way, about PokeMon Trainer Touma Kamijou, may I ask what other PokeMon he has asides from PikachuMisaka-Chu and BulbasaurUiharu?

[dniv]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

Holy smoke, that's awesome!

By the way, about PokeMon Trainer Touma Kamijou, may I ask what other PokeMon he has asides from PikachuMisaka-Chu and BulbasaurUiharu?

AbraKuroko,JynxLessar,MachampGunha,HypnoMisaki,DrilburSaten, SnorlaxIndex, KecleonFiamma, ArceusOthinus, ... the list continues

[Draco Spirit]

I thought Uiharu was one of the few girls he's not hit on/been hit on by?

[ACertainStark]

And probably Saten. Though I guess that depends on what happens in Railgun.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by dniv

AbraKuroko
JynxLessar
MachampGunha
HypnoMisaki
DrilburSaten
SnorlaxIndex
KecleonFiamma
ArceusOthinus

Not bad, though I don't agree with SnorlaxIndex and ArceusOthinus. That's pretty much an all-star team.

[GodlyKyon]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Hoo boy... this is a long one. Both for me to write and you all to read. Still, I have thought about this before, so I do have a few things to say in defense of my opinion.

Touma is character that has things happen to him. When we first meet him, he's being chased by a walking taser disguised as a pre-teen tsundere. Already we're off to a bad start. Kamachi's given us a protagonist for whom his baseline is to react, not to take the initiative, and it's a baseline that follows well into the New Testament novels. Within the same book, a girl falls into Touma's apartment. Well, now we have a pattern that even Touma acknowledges by his catchphrase of "such misfortune." Things happen to him, and he either accepts it, or adapts. Handled well, this wouldn't be a problem. Characters can't be all action all the time. That'd be every cliche perception of every shounen series ever. Reactions are just as important to developing a story as action, perhaps even moreso. Unfortunately, Kamachi doesn't handle it well. Touma reacts, and reacts, and reacts, and that's all we see him do. Every single time.

The first novel? Boy meets girl, girl is in trouble, people attack Touma, Touma defends himself. Deep Blood? Stiyl shows up and enlists Touma's aid. The Sisters incident I'm willing to cut him some slack for, but then Angel Fall comes around and we're back to the default: Kanzaki and Tsukchimikado seek Touma out to let him know about the problem. Four volumes, and three of them all have things happening to Touma like a weirdness magnet. The worst part is Touma lets it happen to him. Over and over, he calmly accepts what gets thrown at him, and reacts. Where's the initiative he showed during the Sisters arc? We know he has it in him, but Kamachi seems to just want things to happen to Touma, rather than Touma actually affecting anything. The whole mess with God's Right Seat makes this even more clear. Volume after volume of Touma being targeted just for being around, and Touma just accepts them as they come, one at a time. Vento, then Terra, then Acqua. One right after another, they're like Terminators being sent after a guy who doesn't know anything, has no drive to know anything unless a situation happens to him that requires him to learn something, and not only wouldn't but couldn't get in their way if they hadn't attacked him. Then Touma goes to England, and wouldn't you know it, a coup happens just in time for him to get involved in it and save the day. After that, it's Fiamma, and... well, I'm just repeating the same point over and over.

Things finally come to their ultimate conclusion in NT3, when Touma gets played like the complete and utter pawn he's been for the past 25!!! volumes, and he acts surprised. Outraged. And I'm supposed to respect him as the main character? Or admire the manipulative skills of the people playing him like a fiddle when it's been consistently happening over and over and again? Touma simply can not, and does not, carry this story; this story carries him. It's carried him along, and held his hand, far too long for me to have any kind of admiration for him. He's there for Kamachi to show off how awesome his character is when all he does is punch someone in the face at the very end, claiming the moral high ground and preaching to them while he does so. I was almost ready to break my computer when I read Touma punching out Gabriel. It's the most blatant example yet of Touma being there just for awesome things to happen to him, because why not punch out an Archangel -- an ARCHANGEL!!! -- because you can.

Speaking of moral high ground and preaching... I have major issues with that, but not in the way you seem to. Yeah, the obvious is obvious, but I'm more concerned about what's not obvious. Whenever Touma punches out someone, it's completely black and white. Touma's right, the one getting punched is wrong. Again, this also wouldn't be a problem if handled well. Except it's not. Most of the antagonists and Big Bads started in a good place, took a wrong turn, and ended up somewhere south of "morally upright." Everyone has flaws, and these characters are no different, but flaws and poor decisions are gray. When Touma enters the equation, that gray turns into black, and Touma's the white. Without exception. They're off the leash, and Touma punching them is the equivalent of putting down a rabid animal. This is even worse when all of those flaws, and decisions, and resulting goals and efforts, are treated as nothing but an "illusion" Touma merely dispels thanks to his magic right hand. Someone's personal beliefs, and outlooks, and all of the thinking and experiences that went into building them, are wiped out by flesh and bone propelled at sufficient velocity to the face. The instant that happens, they're suddenly cured of their "hallucinations", and Touma was right all along, and they're sorry. Now we can welcome them into the good guy club and cheer for them without feeling guilty.

I had a discussion via IM once, and when I mentioned this the point was raised that, if they were truly justified and truly believed in what they were doing, one good punch to the face wouldn't have any effect on them. At first I agreed, and then I thought about it. Beliefs are both fragile and strong, and we don't just change them instantly like a Touma Punch does. The issue here is with Imagine Breaker. Let's look over the official list of what it has been mentioned of doing or being capable of doing at some point. It negates: Luck; divine grace; divine punishment; leylines; red strings of fate... wait, what? Our protagonist, the one who supposedly only gives people a wake up call, can potentially say "Fuck you!" to the very idea of soul mates, as in the two people the universe went out of its way to pair up?! If that's the case, what's stopping that same logic to extend to, oh, beliefs? If the laws of probablity and divine providence don't stand up to his power, then what chance does something as vulnerable as the human psyche have? It might as well be indoctrination, because by the nature of IB's power and the before and after of Touma punching people, that's all I can really call it at this point.

Ultimately, everything always comes down to one thing: Touma punches somone. That's... it. That's how the problem, far more often than not, gets solved. Touma breaks someone's face, and the problem is solved. What a blatant example of might makes right. It degrades everything the antagonists had going for them, everything they've worked for. A stronger character comes along (the MC no less), beats them, and the stronger character is automatically the morally correct one. Even worse, Touma's degrading his own high ground by doing just that. I have nothing wrong with him defending himself, especially given how many times he's actually started a fight (*cough*Sisters arc*cough*), it's following all the way through. Rather than showing the latest antagonist that violence just won't work, systematically dismantling their will to engage in it, he completely indulges them and proves firsthand that violence does work.

Most importantly, there's absolutely nothing there. No backstory. No motivations. No goals. No fears. We know nothing about him. He's a black hole, and no amount of awesomeness or badassery on his part is going to make me relate to him, and if I can't relate to him, I can't like him as a character, let alone appreciate what he's supposed to contribute to the story. We're way too far into the story now for me to be won over to the "Touma's the best character ever!!!" camp. I'll take Accelerator and Shiage over Touma any day.

Possibly the best post I have seen on an Anime forum, that which I disagree with, half. A few things:
Red String of Fate - there's nothing that indicates that such thing exists, pretty sure it's a hyperbole for "fate"
Leylines - wasn't it said it the C Document that he cannot do that?

Fair enough. I do think that Kamijou Touma is a somewhat paradoxical character. Now, I have not read past novel 3 in NT, I am still catching up, but from what I see, his character is definitely developing. Like another user said, he is a wishfulfillment character. But that by itself isn't necessarily BAD. The feelings that he induced to me so far has not been "bland," as with the case of most Harem protagonists, despite not having development of motivations.

I'm not going to say much more as I am still contemplating this as of now, but I must excuse the author, he started writing this story like TEN years ago, things definitely changed since then. And if I was him, I would rewrite how the events unfolded.

Just want to point out that indoctrination part is inaccurate. But Hamazura's story and Accel's are definitely more relateable and less perfect.

The most imporant part where i can to say:

Touma's financial problems, why the hell isn't he paid? I mean, the guy is support TWO persons on his parents' wages, sometimes more. AND he is working nearly everyday to ensure that the enemies plans are thwarted. He should seriously consider charging money for his services to humanity.

Like the Wikia's statement: "Acqua of the back is basically a more mature version of Touma"
And what is Acqua? A MERCENARY! I think it definitely isn't out of the question for Touma to do what he believes is right, AND earn some money while at it so he can end his Index problem.