2012-03-29, 22:20 | Link #1 |
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Moe vs Kawaii
The word "moe" has become a lot more prevalent in the western anime community in the last 3-4 years. I know this word has existed in Japan (not sure if it's otaku terminology or Japanese) for a while now but the earliest I remember it being mentioned was in Haruhi (I think Genshiken too) which was translated as "turn on" or "fetish". So technically you can find anything "moe".
Nowadays the word "moe" seems to refer to anything cute. Pretty much anything that is slightly cute (art style, actions, personality, voice) is called moe. It's pretty synonymous with "kawaii". Although what I noticed is that it's usually the weaboos that use "kawaii" in their words but have no idea what "moe" means. And the non-weaboos use "moe" all the time but don't see it as weabooish. Maybe it's cause there's no translation for "moe". |
2012-03-29, 22:28 | Link #2 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Many western fans mistakenly think 'moe' is a tangible attribute of something whereas it is basically the feeling the *viewer* has. People can get feelings of 'moe' over a variety of things. Some series use art techniques that generate 'moe' in the viewing audience and those are sometimes called 'moe shows' or 'moeblob shows'. However, the feeling can be generated from watching a character drawn in other styles as well.
It is a slang word: a pun derived from a Japanese word that literally means "budding," as with a plant that is about to flower and a homonym for the word for "burning" ... in other words, its an armwaving way of trying to describe a passionate feeling for something that isn't necessarily erotic/sexual. That warm, fuzzy feeling that something must be worshiped and protected. The situation reminds me of the German word "gestalt" which doesn't have a direct translation so it just gets imported. Haruhi... well, I blame some of the fansubbers for a rather loosely translated bit of dialog in that scene contributing to the problem (there was also some intentional satire in the scene on the otaku culture that was taken seriously by some viewers).
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Last edited by Vexx; 2012-03-29 at 23:14. |
2012-03-29, 22:30 | Link #3 |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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From what I can understand about Japanese culture, "moe" does indeed refer to "turn-on" (Lucky Star is probably what taught you that XD) It's not always sexual but it normally refers to "fetishes". "Kawaii" can literally describe anything that is "cute". But "moe" and "kawaii" are not the same. For example, a Japanese girl would call a puppy, clothes, or flowers "kawaii". She would not refer to them as "moe". A Japanese man would call a maid, a schoolgirl, or a bishoujo figure "moe". But he could also call them "kawaii" as well.
Does that help?
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2012-03-29, 23:02 | Link #6 |
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"Moe", as a popular term, simply took off more than "Kawaii" did. Of the two terms, I encounter "moe" a lot more than i do "kawaii".
So if somebody uses "Kawaii" a lot in what they say or write, it can seem a bit exotic even to many online anime fans. "Moe", OTOH, is a term that just about every online anime fan has at least a passing familiarity with, whether or not they like characters/shows commonly considered "moe".
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2012-03-29, 23:27 | Link #7 |
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Moe actually doesn't strictly apply to living beings. otaku have been known to call moe on trains, model guns, techs, etc, etc (like how Daru of Steins Gate call the LHC moe).
Also, "moe" is not to be mistaken with "moeru", though sometimes, they're interchangeable, I think. Literally, "moeru" is closer to "turn on" than "moe", because "moeru" literally means "on fire", but it's more commonly used in a shonen manga/anime where characters suddenly get in an exciting situation.
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2012-03-29, 23:34 | Link #8 | |
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I do that, for that exact reason. Words that are part of anime nomenclature, such as moe and tsundere, I have no problem using when describing a character, but replacing the word "cute" with "kawaii" just seems completely pointless to me.
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2012-03-29, 23:35 | Link #9 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
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Moe= "turn on" comes from the a.f.k. fansubs version of Haruhi, which is how most western fans encountered the show back in 2006. It's not really an accurate translation because as Vexx says, it doesn't translate well into English... a.f.k. just tried to come up with something that worked for the scene.
As for what the term means, I endorse Vexx's definition: Quote:
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2012-03-30, 00:05 | Link #10 |
Also a Lolicon
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I would define the relationship between moe and kawaii as that moe is a feeling often invoked by something kawaii. I generally find myself responding to things designed to invoke the moe with a mix of protectiveness and something else I can't really define. Sorta like big brother/fatherly instinct, but not quite. "Moe" is really hard to translate...
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2012-03-30, 00:08 | Link #11 | ||
Me at work
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So really,can't blame them,they're just going off the translations they've seen,but still when I read stuff like this Quote:
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2012-03-30, 00:18 | Link #12 | ||
Pretentious moe scholar
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Hey, if the iPad can be magically so can Matsuri Shihou or Yune. Add Utena and you've got the revolutionary part down too. (Oh come on, it was too funny to pass up.)
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2012-03-30, 00:18 | Link #13 | |
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I don't doubt that most anime fans know what "kawaii" means, but it's certainly used a lot less often than "moe" or "tsundere" is, giving "kawaii" a more exotic feel as such, imo.
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2012-03-30, 00:47 | Link #14 | |
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One of the signs of a weaboo is if they use the word "kawaii" in an english sentence instead of cute. Like "That was so KAWAII!!! <3" or "He's a baka". Or add honorifics (-san) when talking to people. The reason you don't see the word being used in anime communities and blogs is because they're not weaboos. They tend to know more about Japanese culture but don't worship it like an idiot or pretend to be Japanese. Those are weaboos. Intentionally using Japanese words in English to appear knowledgeable when there's a clear translation for it. Youtube for example is full of weaboos. These people don't know how to download anime/manga beyond searching youtube or google. Very few people like weaboos. Words like "moe" and "tsundere" have no direct (english) translation. You can translate "Kawaii" as "cute" or "Baka" as "idiot". |
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2012-03-30, 00:57 | Link #15 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Myname is describing the "small" faction of people one encounters at American japanese cultural festivals, or haunting asian markets, bookstores, anime conventions. My rule of thumb is that they're embarrassing to even stand near - and I can stand near almost *anyone* .
Of course, when someone uses the "w--" word, the rest of the group should respond with the paddles - that's the game after all
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Last edited by Vexx; 2012-03-30 at 01:07. |
2012-03-30, 00:59 | Link #16 | |
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I see kawaii used a lot more often than I'd like, because I don't see that the word has any purpose when communicating in English at all. But if anyone has a dissenting opinion on that, I'm willing to listen. Edit: Late response is late, Myname pretty much said it, albeit a little more harshly than me.
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2012-03-30, 01:38 | Link #17 | |
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Just on the thread title:
When I look at "moe" and "kawaii", my initial reaction asks: "WTF is the difference?" It'd be hard for an anime girl to be "moe" and uncute at the same time; although, that can very well happen depending on personal preference. There are some girls, whom someone would find cute, while another finds those same ones as annoying or as an outright bitch. Quote:
Sometimes when I go to edit the "moe" article over in Wikipedia; sometimes, I'd just wonder: "What is 'moe' really anyways?" The answer would be: "You know it, when you see it." In general, male characters wouldn't fall into this character, unless you happen to swing that way. In that case, stay away from me. LOLOLOL Nevertheless, a strong element of cuteness does go along with "moe". Oh, and speaking of Wikipedia -- if anyone can find articles (not blogs) on moe, that'd be helpful, particularly stuff in Japanese (that I can't read). I'm sure someone has written something about this topic.
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2012-03-30, 01:42 | Link #18 |
Sekiroad-Idols Sing Twice
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I really don't get the point of trying to segregate moe' and fetishism when the two can certainly overlap. Or what, I'm the only one around here who's found characters that make me feel so moe' that I mistook it for its own fetish altogether?
As for the word kawaii I can safely say that even during my enthusiastic years that I never used the word because it just seems too weird. Nonetheless I have no problem spamming sugoi words like uguu all day without batting an eye desu but I digress. Save the usage of the word kawaii to cute anime girls (or...traps :P) describing cute things so the audience can feel moe' for someone who is cute for being moe' over something cute. In a purely aesthetic sense there is almost no difference as moe' is often an artstyle on its own that can often be considered cute. Emotionally speaking though, moe' is a feeling that invokes a type of doting from someone and isn't quite exclusive to the character's appearance. You can find a character cute but he or she won't necessarily make you feel moe'. On that note, it might be worth noting that the reason moe' and cute are treated as synonymous is that if a character makes someone feel moe' then that feeling can cause his or her perception of the character to change, in this case looking more attractive to the person than it would have been without that special feeling (IE, moe').
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Last edited by Akito Kinomoto; 2012-03-30 at 01:55. |
2012-03-30, 05:35 | Link #19 |
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Maybe it's just me but whenever someone uses the word "kawaii" and they aren't Japanese, it screams "Weeaboo" to me. Yeh yeh I know it's derogatory but seriously that person is asking to be ridiculed.
"Moe" on the other hand seems to be a generalised word in the anime fandom these days. I won't go into the debate of what it actually means (we'll be here for years debating that) but anyone who watches more than just the mainstream shonen titles (Naruto, One Piece, Bleach - wait Bleach finished. OMG) knows what it is. Let me give you a example: "OMG. Your bento is so Kawaiii! Itadakimasu!" See what I mean . It just sounds totally wrong. Compare that to this: "Oh wow. That was totally moe!" |
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