Tokyo's Youth Ordinance Bill

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wang

What saddens me though, is that they didn't need this extra "creativity" for the past decades anime and manga has been premiering, publishing, and releasing material, simply because they have been making the things that we've all lived alongside growing up to know and love. After all, why attempt to fix something that most of us wouldn't consider broken, anyway?

They've had to be "creative" to get around regulation and self-regulation since pretty much forever. There are a number of cliches, tropes, etc that are pretty much there to either dodge regulation or avoid getting regulated by enacting self-regulation.
This is basically a copy of a post I made somewhere else:

And the country that decided to call people 18 or "200, looks 12" when they couldn't call them 12.

And when they couldn't say it was rape anymore, they just said it was surprise sex.

And the country that couldn't gamble with real money, so they created fake currencies to gamble with and allow you to exchange these currencies across the street.

[Mr. Wang]

Well, perhaps I was simply... thinking of more exaggerated change in my head than that of what we may see. However, we'll never know until it happens.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Everything will be as clean as The 1960's Brady Bunch after April if it is not sold in the back of a seedy red-light district bookstore.

Oh wait, The Bradys are a marriage made from two single parents? BAN IT BAN IT!!

[Decagon]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

Everything will be as clean as The 1960's Brady Bunch after April if it is not sold in the back of a seedy red-light district bookstore.

Oh wait, The Bradys are a marriage made from two single parents? BAN IT BAN IT!!

Do you even know how easy it is to buy R-18 material in Japan? Please go back and read just any one of the posts before yours.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Originally Posted by Decagon

Do you even know how easy it is to buy R-18 material in Japan? Please go back and read just any one of the posts before yours.

That post was meant in sarcastic jest. Unfortunately after April 2011 it will no longer be so.

[flying ^]

Originally Posted by Decagon

Do you even know how easy it is to buy R-18 material in Japan?

do you have to bribe?

[Simon]

To add to help counter all the misinformation floating around, I've created a stub Wikipedia article on the law and its revision. It's far from perfect and it needs loads of work, but since this is such a notable issue (in the Wikisense of the word), I thought it deserved somewhere people could refer to for a relatively-unbiased summary of the facts.

Please feel free to add to it, especially if you know of reliable English-language sources (PROTIP: random otaku raging on their blogs aren't good enough - see my comments on the article talk page about using Dan Kanemitsu as a source). But please resist the urge to spam it with "Ishihara is teh devil!!1!1one", that will just get it deleted.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wang

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying all the wrong remedies."

Perfect

[saya_leviathan]

BTW, for those who have pixiv accounts, if you type Ishihara's name (石原 慎太郎), you get a number of fanarts of him. Well, I don't know if most of are anti-Ishihara but I found a fanmade funeral picture of him with the date 2011-4-10 (the date where his term ends). And also this,

Spoiler for pic:

[technomo12]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wang

Bah, stupid politics... You want to know what makes Ishihara a good politician?

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying all the wrong remedies."

~Groucho Marx

or in laymans term

i Deny your Reality and replace it with my own

really now

this bill is still in testing im pretty sure july of 2011 or befor it gets to july it will have many many many reprecussions and remades that it might as well be a fail of a law

then again being that ishihara is (yes im not respecting his name anymore) he will just brush it of his side and continue on with new bills

wich cost money wich is acutly gonig to his pockets and so on and one day looknig back im sure he will notice his wrong doing and comes to a tear jerknig sadness of a failure that he is

on the technically goodside

more good story more good animation quality thoguh less echines (buhuhuhuh i like ecchi stuff not porn but ecchi)

wait it also include gory depictions right?? soo katangatagiri is also going to be included in ban? if soo FUCK!

[Taufiq91]

Seriously many people thinks that this bill is the end of manga and anime "as we know it".

Well, guess what?

it will fail. Seriously.

Why/ Here's some reasons:

1.The Prime Minister is against it, the Government calls it Unconstitutional, the Big 10 Manga Publishers are Against it and the stockholders, investors and businessmen in the anime & manga industry are against it. When you have the PM holding hands with the manga & anime industry, it'd be hard to impose law on them.

2.It will never be enforcable. Seriously, the Tokyo Government would never have the balls to have their police officers come in and fine/arrest mangakas & animes for making "indecent content". Why would they enforce laws against animators & mangakas when they can't even enforce clamp downs against the Yakuza?

3.Speaking of which, these type of laws have 70% chances of failing. Look at the Prohibition, the Comics Code Authority Bill and currently, the War on Drugs. Morality-based laws fail in countries that based themselves in freedom of expression, and regardless of whatever religion you are in, you can never enforce nor impose morality on other people without failing.

4.And this law is against every facet of the Japanese economy. Mangas & animes, ranging from Shonen franchises(One Piece, Naruto, Bleach) to Moeblob ecchis flavour of the month(K-On!, OreImo, to Love Ru) are quite beneficial to the economy. They make up roughly 35% of the entire Japanese economy. This bill will affect the economy so badly that it could make studios bankrupt and publishing companies to close. It can even close down most businesses in Akihabara and turn it into a Japanese Detroit, and Japan doesn't want its own version of Detroit. And based on the last two Prime Ministers, they are pretty reliant on having mangas & animes pushing the economy forward since the economy of Japan is quite in a dump right now.

And that's why i think this bill will fail. Regardless of what Governor Ishihara says, there's NO WAY this bill could ever succeed. Ever.

for a country that makes videos of 500 people having sex in one hall, they made laws like this? Give me a break.

[Raiga]

It sure seems like it'll won't be half as bad as some people think in the long run but I kind of see it as a matter of principle that it should be formally killed before any short-term effects even show up, and I definitely think people should continue to protest it vocally.

[technomo12]

i just noticed this but Pixiv and NND used to have Tokyo right after their name in their sites now its just pixiv and NND

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Taufiq91

Seriously many people thinks that this bill is the end of manga and anime "as we know it".

Well, guess what?

it will fail. Seriously.

Why/ Here's some reasons:

1.The Prime Minister is against it, the Government calls it Unconstitutional, the Big 10 Manga Publishers are Against it and the stockholders, investors and businessmen in the anime & manga industry are against it. When you have the PM holding hands with the manga & anime industry, it'd be hard to impose law on them.

2.It will never be enforcable. Seriously, the Tokyo Government would never have the balls to have their police officers come in and fine/arrest mangakas & animes for making "indecent content". Why would they enforce laws against animators & mangakas when they can't even enforce clamp downs against the Yakuza?

3.Speaking of which, these type of laws have 70% chances of failing. Look at the Prohibition, the Comics Code Authority Bill and currently, the War on Drugs. Morality-based laws fail in countries that based themselves in freedom of expression, and regardless of whatever religion you are in, you can never enforce nor impose morality on other people without failing.

4.And this law is against every facet of the Japanese economy. Mangas & animes, ranging from Shonen franchises(One Piece, Naruto, Bleach) to Moeblob ecchis flavour of the month(K-On!, OreImo, to Love Ru) are quite beneficial to the economy. They make up roughly 35% of the entire Japanese economy. This bill will affect the economy so badly that it could make studios bankrupt and publishing companies to close. It can even close down most businesses in Akihabara and turn it into a Japanese Detroit, and Japan doesn't want its own version of Detroit. And based on the last two Prime Ministers, they are pretty reliant on having mangas & animes pushing the economy forward since the economy of Japan is quite in a dump right now.

And that's why i think this bill will fail. Regardless of what Governor Ishihara says, there's NO WAY this bill could ever succeed. Ever.

for a country that makes videos of 500 people having sex in one hall, they made laws like this? Give me a break.

Quoted for truth. With no political will and enforcement, I think I'll get to play Duke Nukem Forever first before this Bill has a real impact.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Quoted for truth. With no political will and enforcement, I think I'll get to play Duke Nukem Forever first before this Bill has a real impact.

Duke Nukem Forever will be out in three months.... didn't you get the memo?

[FlavorOfLife]

Originally Posted by Taufiq91

1.The Prime Minister is against it, the Government calls it Unconstitutional, the Big 10 Manga Publishers are Against it and the stockholders, investors and businessmen in the anime & manga industry are against it. When you have the PM holding hands with the manga & anime industry, it'd be hard to impose law on them.

No the Prime minster has little power. Do you know how many prime ministers they have had in the last decade? Look it up and check how they exited.

The manga publishers are small time operations, nowhere near the ability to affect policy. If Sony, Mitsubitshi, etc then yes. Look up who the biggest manga fella is and check his market capitalization. Compare to the major japanese companies.

The simple retort Ishihara could do would be "So you're not willing to regulate yourselves because you want to corrupt children?"

The only thing possible is the japan constitutional infringement. If it fails, then forget it.

The real problem is not manga and anime. The real problem is that this is the first step to using the stupidly broad terms of the local law against anything you want.

Originally Posted by Taufiq91

2.It will never be enforcable. Seriously, the Tokyo Government would never have the balls to have their police officers come in and fine/arrest mangakas & animes for making "indecent content". Why would they enforce laws against animators & mangakas when they can't even enforce clamp downs against the Yakuza?

You must be joking. Its incredibly easy for the police to arrest someone. Google the story of the japanese man who killed himself after being falsely accused of molest tio see a sample of how the japanese police work.

Originally Posted by Taufiq91

3.Speaking of which, these type of laws have 70% chances of failing. Look at the Prohibition, the Comics Code Authority Bill and currently, the War on Drugs. Morality-based laws fail in countries that based themselves in freedom of expression, and regardless of whatever religion you are in, you can never enforce nor impose morality on other people without failing.

No, you can. If you an spell it in terms that sound reasonable, you can sell anything. The Comics Code Authority you cite lasted how long? How many years of that was it strong? What happened in the US during the years that it weakened? How was the thing sold in the first place?

Originally Posted by Taufiq91

4.And this law is against every facet of the Japanese economy. Mangas & animes, ranging from Shonen franchises(One Piece, Naruto, Bleach) to Moeblob ecchis flavour of the month(K-On!, OreImo, to Love Ru) are quite beneficial to the economy. They make up roughly 35% of the entire Japanese economy. This bill will affect the economy so badly that it could make studios bankrupt and publishing companies to close. It can even close down most businesses in Akihabara and turn it into a Japanese Detroit, and Japan doesn't want its own version of Detroit. And based on the last two Prime Ministers, they are pretty reliant on having mangas & animes pushing the economy forward since the economy of Japan is quite in a dump right now.

You make it sound like manga and anime is big business. Akihabara is not just about manga or anime, it started as and still is an electronics hub

Googling, i found this page with stats on 2004 japan's economy. My guess is that anime and manga is under "video picture, sound information, etc" along with tv stations/newspapers/movie studios/etc, it means all account for 0.2% of the service industry. Not the whole industry, just the service part.

How much pressure can a fraction of 0.2% bring onto the table?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

You must be joking. Its incredibly easy for the police to arrest someone.

There's a big difference between groping someone on the train and engaging in civil disobedience by continuing to draw schoolgirls being molested by tentacle monsters.

Furthermore, it is the publishers who this bill is targeting, not the mangaka themselves.... and you can't arrest corporations.

[Taufiq91]

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

No the Prime minster has little power. Do you know how many prime ministers they have had in the last decade? Look it up and check how they exited.

The manga publishers are small time operations, nowhere near the ability to affect policy. If Sony, Mitsubitshi, etc then yes. Look up who the biggest manga fella is and check his market capitalization. Compare to the major japanese companies.

But you must remember that most anime companies ARE under big Japanese and Worldwide Corporations:

eg:
Aniplex is under Sony
Geneon is Under Universal

I used to work with Sony, and they take their shit seriously. Infact, they can also run japan by themselves. They even have a lobby in the US Congress regarding Japan-US relations. If this bill takes a total effect on Aniplex, Sony can lobby the US government to pressure Tokyo to be lenient on the bill.

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

You must be joking. Its incredibly easy for the police to arrest someone. Google the story of the japanese man who killed himself after being falsely accused of molest tio see a sample of how the japanese police work.

Yeah, and the Untouchables successfully arrested alcohol dealers during the prohibition,a nd the prohibition still failed. Your point?

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

No, you can. If you an spell it in terms that sound reasonable, you can sell anything. The Comics Code Authority you cite lasted how long? How many years of that was it strong? What happened in the US during the years that it weakened? How was the thing sold in the first place?

it lasted 40 years, but thanks to Watchmen no one gives a shit about it. The Comic's Code Authority was as successful as the DEA dealing the War on Drugs. Regardless of how many successful operations they've done, it'd still keep on failing due to freedom of expression.

You make it sound like manga and anime is big business. Akihabara is not just about manga or anime, it started as and still is an electronics hub

Googling, i found this page with stats on 2004 japan's economy. My guess is that anime and manga is under "video picture, sound information, etc" along with tv stations/newspapers/movie studios/etc, it means all account for 0.2% of the service industry. Not the whole industry, just the service part.

How much pressure can a fraction of 0.2% bring onto the table?

Even if it's small it's still taken seriously. The anime & manga industry has been proven to be influential eventhough it's small. It has become the biggest source of entrpreneurism next to gaming & electronics.

And Japan needs its entrepreneurs, and if they took anime & mangas away there would be no more source of entrepreneurship.

Things like Gundam cafes and Maid cafes would not happen without entrepreneurs who based themselves on animes & mangas.

Here are articles i've read on rising anime-based entrepreneurship in Japan & also worldwide:
http://www.businesscreditcards.com/b...entrepreneurs/
http://www.entrepreneur.com/starting...cle193244.html
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives..._jane_fong.php
http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejou...196399286.html

And the show mane no tora aka Dragon's Den (if you're from the UK) is a show about investors looking for the next entrepreneurs in Japan. And every episode, most of these future entrepreneurs based their ideas on animes and mangas. You can see how animes and mangas are one of the few reasons fore entrepreneurship.

[D-KLAC]

hmm well IF this goes way to far i'm assume most anime will going a NEXUS-attack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA-271GIsZU on it.

really IF this means to "screw" the anime world uh-oh yikes anime fans going riot, protest, chaos, mayhem, NEXUS, etc for their animes.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

The manga publishers are small time operations, nowhere near the ability to affect policy. If Sony, Mitsubitshi, etc then yes. Look up who the biggest manga fella is and check his market capitalization. Compare to the major japanese companies.

Yes, most of the publishing companies are small time, but there are a few very large and very well connected companies when you start playing 6 degrees of Japanese business incest... er company relationships. Let's connect Kodansha, the largest publisher in Japan, to Sony, who owns Aniplex, using only who owns who and who is a large stock holder in who. (Using only companies that have business relationships involving anime/manga.)

Spoiler for I'm sure someone in Japan can do better but here's 5:

1)Kodansha: the largest publisher in all of Japan, publisher of Morning, Afternoon, etc.

2)The group that owns Kodansha also owns King Records/Starchild.

3)King Records major stockholders: Kodansha and TBS holdings - owner of the station TBS, which produces and airs a number of Kadokawa group shows

4)TBS holdings 5th largest stockholder (3%): MBS - owner of the Mainichi paper and MBS channel, which also produces and airs a number of Kadokawa group shows

5) MBS's largest stockholder(4%): Sony
Bonus) MBS's 3rd largest stockholder(4%): Mitsubishi-Tokyo UFJ Bank

[Alex Keller]

On the bad side, there'll be a slight decrease in profits from the moe demographic, and lots of self-censorship in the industry that'll lessen the amount of moe.
On the bright side, I see writers switching tact and exploring new themes (since reliance on shock value is out) which might lead to more focus on storylines and characterization.
Who knows though.