Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 24 Discussion

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Couple things people are missing here.

While this may seem like a surprise to most of you guys here, there's a war going on. It's the Vagans from Mars that wants to wipe out all humans and take over the Earth sphere. The fact that they just go in and wipe out colonies with no military bases shows they could care less about collateral damage.

That's what Romary said, and then she did what she did this episode...
Anyway, tell me where the Vagans said they wanted to commit genocide? Yark Dole told the Diva crew Ezelcant's plan wasn't about "petty revenge", and Ezelcant's conversation with Zeheart implies they have a sort of Celestial Being type of ideology going on... So, sorry but "genocide" just doesn't fit.

So it doesn't matter about Flit because even if Asemu wanted to go work at Starbucks the Vagans will eventually come in and take it out. Zeheart's argument is ridiculous because his faction is dragging everyone into the war regardless. Its them or us. Unless he wants Asemu to go hide under some rock while he goes around killing his people

Way to completely miss the point there. Zeheart's argument is actually pretty sound. War changes you for the worse, at best you'll be able to keep it together and remain yourself more or less. Asemu's recent development is a pretty good example of what can happen,though not the worse by any stretch, and it kinda proves Zeheart's point. Now, is Zeheart being a HYPOCRITE? yes he is, but that's a whole different subject, and I personally think he should have talked to him about that before he sent those guys to Asemu's farm and made him kill them...

I also find it hilarious how Zeheart notes that Asemu won because his Gundam's specs but then you see Flit kicking his ass with a suit that should be a lot weaker than even his own.

I don't know what episode you watched, but Flit was barely hanging in there against Zeheart. It never came across as if Flit was kicking his ass.
You must have a very strange definition of kicking ass...

[inkphoenix]

In my eyes,I thought that Filt was very warming Father.He try his best to make Asemu live in Normal life and have normal soldier career,but it's only because the outside factor(Zeheart who was Asemu ex-bestfriend) is a Vagan that start to make Asemu collapsed and the peaceful live that Filt try to give to his son through his young lives instead have the opposite effect there.

And I don't think that Filt have ever known about his son relationship with Zeheart.....So I don't blame him at all.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

That's what Romary said, and then she did what she did this episode...
Anyway, tell me where the Vagans said they wanted to commit genocide? Yark Dole told the Diva crew Ezelcant's plan wasn't about "petty revenge", and Ezelcant's conversation with Zeheart implies they have a sort of Celestial Being type of ideology going on... So, sorry but "genocide" just doesn't fit.

Yeah so let's all forget all those colonies they wiped out in the past.

Wait so that part where Flit saw his colony wiped out along with his mother burning didn't happened? I didn't get the memo. Oh and what about those other colonies the Vagans attacked and destroyed? Celestial Being was radical but it never went to the point of wiping out colonies.

Are we suppose to forget everything that happened in S1? I was not aware of that.

Way to completely miss the point there. Zeheart's argument is actually pretty sound. War changes you for the worse, at best you'll be able to keep it together and remain yourself more or less. Asemu's recent development is a pretty good example of what can happen,though not the worse by any stretch, and it kinda proves Zeheart's point. Now, is Zeheart being a HYPOCRITE? yes he is, but that's a whole different subject, and I personally think he should have talked to him about that before he sent those guys to Asemu's farm and made him kill them...

Way to completely miss the point there.

My point being was that this was an all out war. No matter what you do you'll be affected one way or the other. Zeheart cannot turn back so he's the last person to lecture Asemu on that.

Take Kira from SEED for example (i hate using SEED) but the general thing that happens in Gundam shows is that it doesn't matter if you choose to be neutral or hide under a rock, you will get dragged in regardless.

That's why I said the Federation officer said it the best when he said to focus on his own abilities rather than trying to live up to his father and such.

I don't know what episode you watched, but Flit was barely hanging in there against Zeheart. It never came across as if Flit was kicking his ass.
You must have a very strange definition of kicking ass...

I dont' know what episode your watching either. In fact by your perspective Vagan's are similar to Celestial being.

The fact that he can take on both Zeheart and his brother in machines that are suppose to be superior to him says a lot either. He's an x-rounder in one of the best machines in the army so technically speaking he should be wiping the floor with Flit but he's barely making any progress against him.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Yeah so let's all forget all those colonies they wiped out in the past.

Wait so that part where Flit saw his colony wiped out along with his mother burning didn't happened? I didn't get the memo. Oh and what about those other colonies the Vagans attacked and destroyed? Celestial Being was radical but it never went to the point of wiping out colonies.

Are we suppose to forget everything that happened in S1? I was not aware of that.

Not to mention that the in Zeheart's flashback the Vagan admiral describe his goal as to "take back Mother Earth from those fools and create a new world just for ourselves". Geez I wonder what they need to be doing to create such a world that is *only for themselves*? I would bet that creating a nice comfy backyard on Earth or even in space for the Earth-race to live peacefully is definitely *not* part of the plan if going by how the Vagan's can kill indiscriminately without showing ANY mercy. Yep, sounds plenty like they have genocide in plan to me.

So yes, Zeheart has NO place to tell Asemu to not fight, he IS brainwashed by the Vagan political machine.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

No, Flit was still caring enough to gave Asemu words of encouragement (which Asemu took it the wrong way) when Asemu failed his X-Rounder test and that pat on the head in front of the other Diva crews. He's still a pretty caring father. This is more like a "coming of age" viewpoint. It's pretty easy to see that since Flit thinks Asemu is now old enough to inherit the AGE Device and is now also a professional solider Asemu should now "grow up" and be a man, and men don't f**king cry and should suck it up and do what they are told to by their boss even if they don't like it and not throw a fit like a child. You'd be surprised how this type of thinking is still dominate in today's society.

That's why I used the words "almost" and "warmth". It's not that he doesn't care, but he's become incredibly awkward about showing it. It's not his feelings that are in question, it's his behavior. Almost all of his interactions with Asemu are cold and distant. Even his "comfort" was very restrained. It may because, while he had no problem with toddler Asemu, he doesn't know how to deal with an adolescent / young adult. It may have some other explanation, like the war taking its toll on him. He wasn't very warm to the rest of his family, either, after all.

That's arguable too - he is obviously proud of his physical abilities and has a high sense of justice as evident by the way he dealt with the bullies in the first episode of his arc. Also how he went out of his way to save the school bully etc. I really doubt designing MS would satisfy his urges to uphold justice.

I still think he'd have been happier further away from the need to kill people and from all the collateral damage.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Couple things people are missing here.

While this may seem like a surprise to most of you guys here, there's a war going on. It's the Vagans from Mars that wants to wipe out all humans and take over the Earth sphere. The fact that they just go in and wipe out colonies with no military bases shows they could care less about collateral damage.

So? They must be hurting for good engineers at least as much as they are for good soldiers.

As for the rest - yeah, we'd probably need to follow some other, more heroic character. So what?

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That's why I used the words "almost" and "warmth". It's not that he doesn't care, but he's become incredibly awkward about showing it. It's not his feelings that are in question, it's his behavior. Almost all of his interactions with Asemu are cold and distant. Even his "comfort" was very restrained. It may because, while he had no problem with toddler Asemu, he doesn't know how to deal with an adolescent / young adult. It may have some other explanation, like the war taking its toll on him. He wasn't very warm to the rest of his family, either, after all.

Well like I said, this is obviously a "coming of age" thing. Asemu's a man now, old enough to inherit the AGE Device and is a professional soldier, in most cases people would say "hey you aren't a boy anymore, so man up!", even Woolf says so a few times to Asemu. Again this isn't *only* Flit's problem, it's Asemu's problem as well as an adolescent growing up. Obviously the two has problems communicating, but that's the way with growing up too, and growing up in a warzone especially does strange things to people.

I still think he'd have been happier further away from the need to kill people and from all the collateral damage.

No I don't think so - as far as we can tell Asemu has no problems killing soldiers (he's never shown the usual "oh noez I've killed a person, waaaa" phase that nearly all the civilian Gundam pilots goes through), the gist of his current problem is that he is fighting his friend. I'd still argue that his sense of justice is way too strong for him to sit idle on the way side and let innocent civilians be killed while just tinkering mobile suits - he's really the type who takes matters into his own hands as we've seen time and again. I can already picture him jumping into a MS he was developing/preparing to fight when the Vagans come knocking on the doors.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

No I don't think so - as far as we can tell Asemu has no problems killing soldiers (he's never shown the usual "oh noez I've killed a person, waaaa" phase that nearly all the civilian Gundam pilots goes through), the gist of his current problem is that he is fighting his friend. I'd still argue that his sense of justice is way too strong for him to sit idle on the way side and let innocent civilians be killed while just tinkering mobile suits - he's really the type who takes matters into his own hands as we've seen time and again. I can already picture him jumping into a MS he was developing/preparing to fight when the Vagans come knocking on the doors.

Asemu is 18, he's naive and stupid. His sense of justice doesn't tell me crap. There is always, always a choice. Take it from someone who's seen real combat, it doesn't take long for you to realize you can't make a difference and all your ideals don't mean shit. If you want to help people, make a real difference, become a doctor, a teacher, an engineer, or something along those lines, not a soldier. Soldiers don't make a difference...

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Yeah so let's all forget all those colonies they wiped out in the past.

Wait so that part where Flit saw his colony wiped out along with his mother burning didn't happened? I didn't get the memo. Oh and what about those other colonies the Vagans attacked and destroyed? Celestial Being was radical but it never went to the point of wiping out colonies.

Are we suppose to forget everything that happened in S1? I was not aware of that.

You certainly missed the memo where they mentioned who the Vagans are, and what their history is.

I never said those things didn't happen, in fact if you look at my older posts from the first part of AGE you would see that I was very critical of the Vagans. I still think what the Vagans did is wrong and despicable because those people they killed weren't responsible for their problems. That's not to say that the Federation is not at fault here, as they are clearly the party responsible for that whole mess. They abandoned their citizens in a hostile environment with TWENTY percent mortality rate, then covered it up. The Vagans are wrong in their execution of their plan. Are they justified though? You betcha

I dont' know what episode your watching either. In fact by your perspective Vagan's are similar to Celestial being.

The fact that he can take on both Zeheart and his brother in machines that are suppose to be superior to him says a lot either. He's an x-rounder in one of the best machines in the army so technically speaking he should be wiping the floor with Flit but he's barely making any progress against him.

I said their plan, based on Ezelcant's conversation with Zeheart, is similar to CB's. That's just the impression I got, no need to be an ass about it.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Soldiers don't make a difference...

You are watching Gundam.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Asemu is 18, he's naive and stupid. His sense of justice doesn't tell me crap. There is always, always a choice. Take it from someone who's seen real combat, it doesn't take long for you to realize you can't make a difference and all your ideals don't mean shit. If you want to help people, make a real difference, become a doctor, a teacher, an engineer, or something along those lines, not a soldier. Soldiers don't make a difference...

Truer words have never been spoken sir...

I believe by the end of his run Asemu will be so burned out that he would just quit the military all together perhaps because of Zeheart dieing, maybe he finally realizes his father is not the man he once thought him to be, or maybe he'll see enough war to last him a life time...All I know is something is going to brake him so bad he may never be the same again.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Asemu is 18, he's naive and stupid. His sense of justice doesn't tell me crap. There is always, always a choice. Take it from someone who's seen real combat, it doesn't take long for you to realize you can't make a difference and all your ideals don't mean shit. If you want to help people, make a real difference, become a doctor, a teacher, an engineer, or something along those lines, not a soldier. Soldiers don't make a difference...

All true, but that's not what is being argued here.

I'm arguing that Asemu would not sit idle and be content being a mere MS engineer and would take matters into his own hands anyway because he has a very strong sense of justice and always acts on it immediately.

Tell me, is it not true that Asemu stood up to bullies at school? Is it not true that Asemu is so bent on saving others that he risked his own life to go outside of the airlock to save the school bully? Did he not stood up to the Federation secret police when they came for Zeheart? Did he not even stood up to his own father because he was afraid of hurting civilians? This all shows that he has an extremely strong sense of justice in which he would act in the only way he knows - direct interference and taking matters into his own hands. In every incident we've seen it is to show that he has no tolerance and patience for injustice, that's why he would not be content in being a sideliner - his personality won't allow it. A doctor or an engineer simply doesn't fit how he does things because it doesn't directly stop the injustice. You can argue he has the choice all day long, but it doesn't matter if that's not what he chooses.

[faceroll]

well this second arc is about how someone not suited for war getting involve in a war.
so yeah, we gotta like stick with it. ;p

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

Well like I said, this is obviously a "coming of age" thing. Asemu's a man now, old enough to inherit the AGE Device and is a professional soldier,

Their problems seem older than that.

in most cases people would say "hey you aren't a boy anymore, so man up!", even Woolf says so a few times to Asemu.

But he isn't cold and distant about it.

Again this isn't *only* Flit's problem, it's Asemu's problem as well as an adolescent growing up. Obviously the two has problems communicating, but that's the way with growing up too, and growing up in a warzone especially does strange things to people.

I won't deny that Asemu has issues of his own, and that some of it may just be adolescence rather than caused by his father. But - what little we saw of it - Flit's no better with his wife and daughter.

No I don't think so - as far as we can tell Asemu has no problems killing soldiers (he's never shown the usual "oh noez I've killed a person, waaaa" phase that nearly all the civilian Gundam pilots goes through), the gist of his current problem is that he is fighting his friend. I'd still argue that his sense of justice is way too strong for him to sit idle on the way side and let innocent civilians be killed while just tinkering mobile suits - he's really the type who takes matters into his own hands as we've seen time and again. I can already picture him jumping into a MS he was developing/preparing to fight when the Vagans come knocking on the doors.

He'd have fought if the fight had come to him. But he never seemed that eager to go looking for trouble. There definitely was a vibe of "my father made me do it" to his enlistment.

[Gundamx]

He will be happy as engineers?
Nah it will be same, Flint create gundam when he was younger than Asemu.
(He will start crying because he can't create better gundam than his father and his best friend Zeheart is better than him at it.)

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I said their plan, based on Ezelcant's conversation with Zeheart, is similar to CB's. That's just the impression I got, no need to be an ass about it.

Really? I personally thought it was similar to that World War 1 nonsense... You know, the whole "War to end all wars" business (and we know how THAT turned out )...

[mechalord]

Vagans work in cells. Gerra Zoi's cell was the one that destroyed colonies for some reason or other. He had contacts within the Earth Federation that probably helped him do this. Zeheart's cell seems purely interested in military targets and recovering Terran technology. Other cells seem to be more subversive and secret... they're the ones with the secret bases and assassins.


About this episode. . . does Flit did more reasons to get even more pissed off? Who's the mole? Is it someone on the Diva? Is it one of Flit's friends? Grodek deleted the date before he croaked... why?


Do Zeheart or Asemu really like Romary romantically?

To me it seemed that Asemu longed for the older and simpler days when he didn't try to be better than everyone else. When Romary chose Zeheart over Asemu, it seemed like he was more pissed off that Zeheart is better liked and that she took his side instead of his. Asemu is obsessed with being liked more and becoming superior than everyone around him. He sees his lack of skill, charisma, and sex appeal compared to Zeheart and Flit as a slap in the face.

It's not that he likes Romary, it's that he can't tolerate that their mutual friend has a bigger crush on Zeheart..

Asemu is an extremely self centered jerk.

[Gundamx]

Vagans work in cells. Gerra Zoi's cell was the one that destroyed colonies for some reason or other. He had contacts within the Earth Federation that probably helped him do this. Zeheart's cell seems purely interested in military targets and recovering Terran technology. Other cells seem to be more subversive and secret... they're the ones with the secret bases and assassins.

have you forget that Zeheart's group attack Asemu colony?
(Most of the target was civilian area.)

Who's the mole? Is it someone on the Diva? Is it one of Flit's friends?

Char....

Grodek deleted the date before he croaked... why?

Maybe to save it from being stolen?

It's not that he likes Romary, it's that he can't tolerate that their mutual friend has a bigger crush on Zeheart..

That not enough reason to get angry like that.... and is it wrong for Asemu to want at least one person to knowledge him?
(The one he like.)

[RES-01 Perses Gundam]

Originally Posted by mechalord

Vagans work in cells. Gerra Zoi's cell was the one that destroyed colonies for some reason or other. He had contacts within the Earth Federation that probably helped him do this. Zeheart's cell seems purely interested in military targets and recovering Terran technology. Other cells seem to be more subversive and secret... they're the ones with the secret bases and assassins.


About this episode. . . does Flit did more reasons to get even more pissed off? Who's the mole? Is it someone on the Diva? Is it one of Flit's friends? Grodek deleted the date before he croaked... why?


Do Zeheart or Asemu really like Romary romantically?

To me it seemed that Asemu longed for the older and simpler days when he didn't try to be better than everyone else. When Romary chose Zeheart over Asemu, it seemed like he was more pissed off that Zeheart is better liked and that she took his side instead of his. Asemu is obsessed with being liked more and becoming superior than everyone around him. He sees his lack of skill, charisma, and sex appeal compared to Zeheart and Flit as a slap in the face.

It's not that he likes Romary, it's that he can't tolerate that their mutual friend has a bigger crush on Zeheart..

Asemu is an extremely self centered jerk.

You speak in absolute terms, which turns me off a lot.

Vagans work in cells, right? Why can't you phrase that as an opinion, and here I propose, everything was part of the plan. It's not as if Geera Zoi and Zeheart worked together to infiltrate Earth. It's more likely that Zeheart's actions were facilitated by his predecessor's deeds. Quote Geera Zoi, he said before he died that nobody could stop the progress of Ezelcant-sama's plan, implying that he was merely a pawn in the plan, a component which fulfilled its objectives and someone else can takeover and built on his efforts.

My take is we can't really decipher Asemu's thoughts now. He's just too confused and enraged to even sought out his thoughts, much less for us to decode his. Give him time (I know I said this more than once already) and he will be fine. What begun as a desire to outsmart others may turn out to be a romantic attraction. After all, it's not that Asemu lacks compassion, he showed it clearly when he defended Zeheart at the graduation ceremony, and risking his life despite the odds of punishment.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

have you forget that Zeheart's group attack Asemu colony?
(Most of the target was civilian area.)


Char....


Maybe to save it from being stolen?


That not enough reason to get angry like that.... and is it wrong for Asemu to want at least one person to knowledge him?
(The one he like.)

there were 0 civilian casualties though, a fact stated in one of the episodes themselves.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

there were 0 civilian casualties though, a fact stated in one of the episodes themselves.

Because it was Flit colony(I think he made sure that everyone have evacuation training).
That why I think.... since the Vegan was destroying everything in civilian area.
Building(which should have many people), street...etc