(L) Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance [Light Novel]

[Richocet]

Though I hate her in the beginning, I must say she does grow on me later on

[KuroiHikari]

@bietchie11
Which particular scene ticks you off?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

I refer to this definition "http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DamselScrappy"

"Sometimes one character (usually a Love Interest or a relative of another character) seems to have no discernible purpose besides serving as the Designated Victim. If the character is popular with the audience, this can be effective. Other times, well....let's just say that the audience starts wishing that the Big Damn Heroes would get stuck in traffic, just so they won't have to put up with her anymore. "
(For Claire, it would be the latter case.)


"Most of the time, this character's plight is due entirely to her own stupidity. She doesn't just pick up the Distress Ball, she runs it into her own endzone and gets tackled for a safety. And she keeps on doing it, again and again and again. This may be due to being The Ditz, or a severe case of crippling genre blindness."


This definition is exclusive for Claire and Claire only. No other girls has it.

Nope.

Sorry to be blunt, but of all the girls so far, she's the only one other than Kamito that actually did anything useful in combat. And she managed to yank Kamito out of his BSoD when Restia showed up.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by KuroiHikari

@bietchie11
Which particular scene ticks you off?

Probably the whole vol 1.
She greatly reminds me of that flat-chest in Zero Tsukaima.

For example:
1st -She is so uneducated. When someone do you a favor, do you hit them, complain about them, bossing them around? "Yes, i do"-Claire said.
Forget about being a high class lady, just comparing to normal people like us, she has no manner at all.
If i acts like her, i would say something like this:
"Hey Kira, nom0n, you must translate and post the translation on the forum tomorrow."
"you translate or you die"
"what a retard, you call this translation, full of grammar mistake, you even spell this wrong."
...
And never say "thank you" (for saving my life, for cooking for me, for translating ...). And this is not about "acting tough".(like someone description of "tsundere") Not at all.

Now you know why i'm pissed?

2nd -Accuse and claim shamelessly things doesn't belong to her to be hers.
(kinda like you are poor, you don't have money to buy an Xbox, someone buy it because they have money, and you claim they stole it from you and demand everything they owns to be yours. It's that absurd.)

3rd -Never learn. ("damsel in distress") She gets in same kind of problem in the same way 3 times in a row even though every times she gets warned.

4th -She is pretty much a boring girl that reacts the same way every time she is jealous: beating him light out and he isn't even her boyfriend !!!! What rights does she have?
Take a look at Erica in Campione! Even though that novel has a ridiculous stupid fighting system where your strenght is based entirely on your opponent
s perception (If he believes you are strong, you are strong! If he believes you are weak, you has no power), i still read it just because of Erica. Every time the MC has a girl problem, she gives a very smart and cunning and different ways to solve the problem and maintains her dominion. It is so excite to read the new volume to see what shit she pull out. Like TWGOK and yeah, i always skip the fighting part.

5th- She is a coward, an "all hat, no cattle". She knows how to talk big but she never acts big to back it up.
She insults someone, challenges for a duel.... and then asks someone fight in her place.
Last time i check, "duel" is an arranged engagement in combat between two individuals , the challenger and the challenged.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Probably the whole vol 1.
She greatly reminds me of that flat-chest in Zero Tsukaima.

For example:
1st -She is so uneducated. When someone do you a favor, do you hit them, complain about them, bossing them around? "Yes, i do"-Claire said.
Forget about being a high class lady, just comparing to normal people like us, she has no manner at all.
If i acts like her, i would say something like this:
"Hey Kira, nom0n, you must translate and post the translation on the forum tomorrow."
"you translate or you die"
"what a retard, you call this translation, full of grammar mistake, you even spell this wrong."
...
And never say "thank you" (for saving my life, for cooking for me, for translating ...). And this is not about "acting tough".(like someone description of "tsundere") Not at all.

Now you know why i'm pissed?

2nd -Accuse and claim shamelessly things doesn't belong to her to be hers.
(kinda like you are poor, you don't have money to buy an Xbox, someone buy it because they have money, and you claim they stole it from you and demand everything they owns to be yours. It's that absurd.)

3rd -Never learn. ("damsel in distress") She gets in same kind of problem in the same way 3 times in a row even though every times she gets warned.

4th -She is pretty much a boring girl that reacts the same way every time she is jealous: beating him light out and he isn't even her boyfriend !!!! What rights does she have?
Take a look at Erica in Campione! Even though that novel has a ridiculous stupid fighting system where your strenght is based entirely on your opponent
s perception (If he believes you are strong, if he believes you are weak, you has no power), i still read it just because of Erica. Every time the MC has a girl problem, she gives a very smart and cunning and different ways to solve the problem and maintains her dominion. It is so excite to read the new volume to see what shit she pull out. Like TWGOK and yeah, i always skip the fighting part.

5th- She is a coward, an "all hat, no cattle". She knows how to talk big but she never acts big to back it up.
She insults someone, challenges for a duel.... and then asks someone fight in her place.
Last time i check, "duel" is an arranged engagement in combat between two individuals , the challenger and the challenged.

You just voiced out my thoughts. xD. Although, I was too busy focusing on Est and Restia to type all that out. xD

[KuroiHikari]

That isn't very particular but very detailed.

She is quite socially awkward, considering everyone shuns her and looks down on her, since the incident.

1st -She is so uneducated. When someone do you a favor, do you hit them, complain about them, bossing them around? "Yes, i do"-Claire said.

This is why I asked for a particular scene, because I can't really recall.

I thought it was like, "Kamito is up to no good(perversion) again!" Pishi! Pishi! Boom!

She definitely flares up easily, and she's armed with magic, that's a bad combination to begin with.

Point 3 is her believing she has to do something. You know, those instances where you can't believe something till you try it? Ignoring the warnings feels like her believing she has to do something alone.

The 5th point may be a lingual-difference issue, are you referring 3v3 match between Ellis and Claire?

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by XFire

Nope.

Sorry to be blunt, but of all the girls so far, she's the only one other than Kamito that actually did anything useful in combat. And she managed to yank Kamito out of his BSoD when Restia showed up.

But in the first place, it is her stupidity that cause the problem Kamito is in for the 3rd time. And that is why she is a "damsel in distress".
The purpose of her creation is to cause troubles.
And you can't deny the fact that "she gets into the same kind of trouble in the same way even though she gets the same warning the 3 times in a row" is stupid, can you?

Other girls doesn't have chances to show their usefulness because they don't cause the problems and involve him in to begin with

And to tell the truth. It takes nothing to yank him out of his BSoD. She just acts like she is pitiful, powerless, "easy to get hurt"... to provoke his sympathy, compassion, kindness,... so he must continue to live to support her(be it becoming her slave and get beaten everyday, not join Knight team, being ordered to do all the chores and never get a praise and a "thank you").

It is his kindness, his compassion to others (he swears not let anyone suffer like Reitas suffers) that snap him out of his BSoD.
Anyone can do it and no, there is nothing to be proud about it. Kinda like pretend to be homeless or a disable and make use of others' kindness to make money.(i guarantee there is that kind of fraud and i do get tricked .)

-------------------------------------------------
And i am aware that because she causes troubles that we have combating scenes. Because of her incompetence that he has to sticks with her(because he is kind) and other girls and have a "no fun" harem where girls don't compete each other in seducing him and simply beat him light out.

But this way is the cheapest way to make the story move on.

There are 3 ways to get into the troubles:
-troubles finds you. (for example, you are famous and many secret organization try to throw you out).
- you and trouble bump into each others. (unlucky)
-you find troubles. ("damsel in distress")
The first and the second is every interesting and hard to write, require a lots of effort and intellectual from authors. You have to write about all the conspiracy, the preparing enemy make for you or explain how many elements/factors that lead to the coincidence that you and trouble bump into each others.
The last one is easy. Everyone can write it. You can, i can. Just create someone dumb, always jump into trouble and make our hero kind and can't leave them alone and we have a story.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by KuroiHikari

That isn't very particular but very detailed.

She is quite socially awkward, considering everyone shuns her and looks down on her, since the incident.

This is why I asked for a particular scene, because I can't really recall.

I thought it was like, "Kamito is up to no good(perversion) again!" Pishi! Pishi! Boom!

She definitely flares up easily, and she's armed with magic, that's a bad combination to begin with.

Point 3 is her believing she has to do something. You know, those instances where you can't believe something till you try it? Ignoring the warnings feels like her believing she has to do something alone.

The 5th point may be a lingual-difference issue, are you referring 3v3 match between Ellis and Claire?

The example is the duel.
It is the matter between Claire and Ellis. Kamito has nothing to do with it. He gains nothing from helping her.
And yet she boss him around.
"you choose ...blah blah blah... or cinder"
And when he is not up to her expectation. She complains and insults him.

Many times i think. "If you are that good, why don't you do it yourself?"
"Do you think you can threaten someone who can do things you can't into doing things you can't?"

About the 5th point. No, i don't think it is about lingual issue.
Duel is one of the example.
Another example is she claims him be her slave, spread the rumor to gain benefits from his fame when she didn't even has ability to buy him.

And yeah, duel is a solid example for she is a lair, a coward, an "all hat, no cattle". If she is confidence enough, do you think she turn it into 3-3 battle?
She challenges 1-1 duel to settle the private matter between her and Ellis and then turn into 3-3 combat involve an outsider with the expectation he can single handle 3 of them.
All the purpose of turning a duel into 3-3 battle is not for time efficient(it is a lie, a facade), but for someone fight in her place.
What is the point of a battle for honor when you do it by a dishonor means?

3rd point. Yeah, i do agree that sometimes, sometimes you don't know until you try.
But that is only true when you are the peer, the vanguard in a field of study, research,... and there is no previous results of the thing you want to try.
I play Dota for 6 years already. I'm the very early player of this game and has to build logic, experiences through failure as there is no guide or a shitty guide that isn't worth to read due to everyone is as inexperience as i am.
So you know i'm experienced in trying new stuff!!!!

But nowadays, new-players just go into the game, play game, get owned and call the game sucks. In my eyes, they are arrogant and stupid and take everything for granted.
There are hundred of reliable guides we experienced players spend time to write, base on our trials of failure, our previous results to help them.
They just ignore the guides, think of themselves as genius, make the same mistake we did many years before and call us cheaters when they lose.

Those noobs are like "Claire".
Many previous elite contractors didn't end well. Claire isn't even the best in the academy. She can't beat Ellis alone. There is no basis to tell that she may be make the different. But guess what?
She ignores the previous result provide by many of her seniors, thinks she is genius, fails like others before her fail and calls Kamito thief when she lose her chance.


First time, she doesn't listen to the warning. I'm totally okay with that. But she is definitely not "wise".
Second time, well, you did not listen and you did fail, but not learning from your own experience and try something even more dangerous is not that bad, right? RIGHT????
Okay, you try it twice, you don't listen to someone who is always right and it get worse from time to time, LET TRY IT THE THIRD TIME, babe!!!!!!

"A fool learns from his mistakes, but a truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others". I don't know what kind of people who can't even learn from their own mistake for the 2nd time... No wait!!!! FOR the 3rd time!!!!

Insane, may be?
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

When you say "her believing she has to do something.", you remind me of my friend.
There are times when our team haven't re-spawn and he is the only one on the battlefield, enemy team take Roshan(boss), he just rushes in the Roshan's pit where there are 5 of the enemy and die.... and giving them gold and exp.
I ask him "why he rushes in there, knowing he will die".
He said "i gotta do something, we can't let them take Roshan and do nothing".
Yeah, he does something: feeding, make them stronger.

[KuroiHikari]

Oh, by 5th point I meant the usage of the word duel.

I think you're reading it too deep. She wants a duel with Ellis, but she also wants a duel with the other girl, who insulted her sister.

She doesn't expect that he can take them all 3. However, she does expect that he was some sort of trump card, mainly because of the sealed spirit he gotten. She doesn't know how powerful Kamito is, only how powerful the sword is.

Time efficient isn't the word, it was just too troublesome. A 1-on-1 duel with 3 people would span several days, fight, rest, fight, rest. These matches occur at night, as they have classes in the day. But I think, she should have done the 1-on-1 duel.

It's true that she's bossing him around.

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Another example is she claims him be her slave, spread the rumor to gain benefits from his fame when she didn't even has ability to buy him.

This is just over-reading things. I'm pretty sure she's quite naive. Kamito's fame is only being a guy, no one has seen even him fight at this point of time.
As far as the story progress before the duel, Kamito is a nobody, other than being a male spirit contractor.

Those noobs are like "Claire".
Many previous elite contractors didn't end well. Claire isn't even the best in the academy. She can't beat Ellis alone. There is no basis to tell that she may be make the different. But guess what?
She ignores the previous result provide by many of her seniors, thinks she is genius, fails like others before her fail and calls Kamito thief when she lose her chance.

Regarding the sword incident, that's because it's more than skill/ability to get a spirit. She believed she could connect with the spirit and make a contract.

The jaw part was just insane I guess. But I'm not sure how things would be like if it was left up to Ellis to hold it back.

The third time is just different I think. Although, I have to question why she bothered with the jaw, when there was this tournament.

Off topic: On the game topic, there's the other side of argument, where game guides are ruining the fun of gaming.

They just ignore the guides, think of themselves as genius, make the same mistake we did many years before and call us cheaters when they lose.

Ironically, isn't referring to a guide some sort cheating. The first group of gamers only depended on themselves, nothing else.

Even as a peer, with previous result, they do rerun the test, may be even more times than the paper did. You truly do not know if their result is what they claim.
Nobody should take in any info directly and accepts it.

I mean how do you know my translations are correct,

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by KuroiHikari

She doesn't expect that he can take them all 3. However, she does expect that he was some sort of trump card, mainly because of the sealed spirit he gotten. She doesn't know how powerful Kamito is, only how powerful the sword is.

He does tame the spirit the whole school can't tame for years, many generations of student. Ofc he is super awesome!!!!
How can someone precept that as he is just a little above average?

And how do you even know she doesn't expect he can take them all 3?
Why don't she chose the maid instead or some other classmate?
There is no different between him or any other classmate in this matter, they are outsiders. And she even knows other classmates longer than him. And she just BURN his house and "probably" piss him off. Just "may be", "probably", but absolutely not "definitely", right? Right???
I really don't see why she would choose someone she hardly know about, probably piss off beside for making use of his awesome power.


ANYWAY, my main point is: your problems, solve them yourself.
There is no excuse what so ever to have an outsider like Minator solving any parts of her problems.
She insults your sister, beat her yourself.
You challenge Ellis, fight her yourself.
If you think 1 against 2 is too much too handle, then why dafuq you provoke Ellis for? You reap what you sow.

Originally Posted by KuroiHikari

Time efficient isn't the word, it was just too troublesome. A 1-on-1 duel with 3 people would span several days, fight, rest, fight, rest. These matches occur at night, as they have classes in the day. But I think, she should have done the 1-on-1 duel.

I will clarify/explain why it is only 1 vs 2 at best for the last line of my first argument.
She challenges Ellis only. And one of the other 2 subordinates(B) insults the blonde hair girl's family, not her. There is no reason for her to fight 3 matches with 3 of them.
there are not 3 conclusive matches, there only are 2 separate duels occur at the same times:
Blonde hair vs subordinate B who insults her family.
Claire vs Ellis. (+ the one insults her sister, subordinate A.)

Like i said above.
I don't care the reason she challenge Ellis. You challenge Ellis, you fight Ellis. That's simple.
And that's enough. The subordinate's action is the superior's responsibility.
Even if she has to fight 2 people(Ellis and the subordinate A), so it be, she reaps what she sows.

Originally Posted by KuroiHikari

This is just over-reading things. I'm pretty sure she's quite naive. Kamito's fame is only being a guy, no one has seen even him fight at this point of time.
As far as the story progress before the duel, Kamito is a nobody, other than being a male spirit contractor.

"There is no smoke if there is no fire"
Behind every action, there is intention/motivation.
Can you explain why she spread the rumor about him contract the infamous sword spirit if she has no motive?(only she know about it, others doesn't know the spirit at that point)
I don't see why i should spread rumor about someone for no apparent reason.

Originally Posted by KuroiHikari

Regarding the sword incident, that's because it's more than skill/ability to get a spirit. She believed she could connect with the spirit and make a contract.

It takes more than skill/ability and but the first step is you must have the skill...
Her belief is "delusional".
Same problem with her sister.
She totally knows (100% sure) that her sister is a traitor, that she can't stop her from doing bad thing(it is said in the novel after the 2nd or 3rd time she mess it up "because she is powerless, she can't stop her sister") . But still she want to hear "the truth" from her sister. She wants her sister to give her a lie in order to escape reality.

That is another thing i hate about her.
Coward, run away from the truth, from the reality.

This is the same case with the vice captain Momo Hinamori in "Bleach" who was under Aizen command.
Get stabbed by him and still lie to herself that Gin is the one who controls Aizen...
It is just retard...

Originally Posted by KuroiHikari

Off topic: On the game topic, there's the other side of argument, where game guides are ruining the fun of gaming.

Ironically, isn't referring to a guide some sort cheating. The first group of gamers only depended on themselves, nothing else.

Even as a peer, with previous result, they do rerun the test, may be even more times than the paper did. You truly do not know if their result is what they claim.
Nobody should take in any info directly and accepts it.

I mean how do you know my translations are correct,

No. Most of them guide only teach the concept of what the hero capable of, what he can't. What is the item's functions? What is the unseen values of the items.
We don't teach you how to play to letter. We can't, actually.
DOTA is like chess. It is not some scripted game with AI like Half-life, CoD, ... with the walkthrough, you learn the patent, you beat the games.
In DOTA, you know the rules,have knowledge doesn't means you auto-win.
Knowledge only gives you higher chance over someone who don't know the rules.
Because it is a mind game between 10 people.
It is always interesting and thrill to fight again someone is at the same caliber as you.


What we do makes the game more diversity, not easy to be bored.
It is like we introduce the ingredients, the seasoning, widening the variety of the factors by pointing out things you over looks. How you cook is up to you but sure you can cook more different dishes and you dishes sure will more delicious.
Without many different ingredients, you can only make the same dishes with the same taste again and again. Does it feel good?


In a team oriented game like Dota, it is enjoyable when everybody know what they doing and cooperate well with each others.
When someone who never know their facts before they do something, become a burden in the game, they make their teamate annoyed and get flamed and insulted. And i don't see why that is enjoyable.
We provide information for anyone who has a sense of responsibility and try to not be a burden.
That makes the game less annoying.

[Kleeyook]

Talking about Claire hurts my head.

I resent people like her. But there'd be people defending her.

That's about the same as why psychiatrists defend their patient who happen to be assholes causing troubles to others with reasons like they have bad childhood...

Normally, Claire's case can be considered Freudian excuse since whenever she acts like a bitch, everyone will just assume it's because the treatment she got from others when her sister caused huge disaster years ago.

[KuroiHikari]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

He does tame the spirit the whole school can't tame for years, many generations of student. Ofc he is super awesome!!!!
How can someone precept that as he is just a little above average?
...
It takes more than skill/ability and but the first step is you must have the skill...

To be more accurate, your skill may not matter for contracting, it's just whether you can connect with the spirit, it depends on the spirit since it's a two-party thing. The skill part is more of the using of a spirit.

Originally Posted by bietchie11

And how do you even know she doesn't expect he can take them all 3?
Why don't she chose the maid instead or some other classmate?
There is no different between him or any other classmate in this matter, they are outsiders. And she even knows other classmates longer than him.

That's because that's a normal thought. Why would she think he can take them all three?
She has nothing to back it, and her stubborn pride wouldn't allow that to happen either, she'll take them all three if she has to, but I guess even she knows that 3v1 is too much, which is why it was a 3v3.

She only realized how powerful Kamito might be after the jaw incident.

Spoiler for The maid from v2:

The maid isn't a spirit contractor.

Unfortunately, she knows she can boss Kamito around.

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Her belief is "delusional".
Same problem with her sister.
She totally know that her sister is a traitor, that she can't stop her from doing bad thing. But still she want to hear "the truth" from her sister. She wants her sister to give her a lie in order to escape reality.

She wants to hear it from her, because she can't take other's words for it. She's her sister, someone very close. If your close sibling suddenly committed murder, you would still want to speak to him/her and find out more, right?

What do you think of her sister and what has she done?

Originally Posted by bietchie11

She challenges Ellis only. And one of the other 2 insults the blonde hair girl's family, not her. There is no reason for her to fight 3 matches with 3 of them.
there are not 3 conclusive matches, there only are 2 separate duels occur at the same times:
Blonde hair vs the one insults her family.
Claire vs Ellis.
I don't care the reason she challenge Ellis. You challenge Ellis, you fight Ellis. That's simple.
And that's enough. The subordinate's action is the superior's responsibility.

Claire can't stand the calling that her sister is a traitor. Her relationship with Ellis has been always bad. I thought an angry person would want to personally beat the person who gave the insult.

Originally Posted by bietchie11

"There is no smoke if there is no fire"
Behind every action, there is intention/motivation.
Can you explain why she spread the rumor about him contract the infamous sword spirit if she has no motive?(only she know about it, others doesn't know the spirit at that point)
I don't see why i should spread rumor about someone for no apparent reason.

I'm not sure what her motive was, she's as infamous as the sword. But I guess you're right on this, she's claiming to be the proxy contractor of the sword. However, there's still nothing to gain from it being a rumor. Let's put it this way, she's telling it as a fact, "Kamito is mine?".

But I feel the whole slave ___ thing was a copy of the troupe from ZnT due to its popularity.

@Kleeyook
As far as I've read, only Kamito is the target of her wrath, she should blast everyone too to be fair.

[Kleeyook]

^^ let's see.

If Claire was killed by Est in the very beginning, her family or the academy must have trouble financing her funeral.

When Claire challenged Ellis and her subordinates for challenge when the girls (not Ellis) insult her sister, she already caused trouble. And the trouble began already when Claire fought against Rinslet over kamito and caused Kamito's home to disappear. Both Claire and Rinslet have rich bitch attitude and never show the inspectors they're sorry due to their stupid pride (they were sorry for Kamito though) hence their own arrogant attitude lead to the duel.

I believe that Ellis were to stalling for time to retreat when the wild spirit assaulted them, and Kamito should be strong enough to defeat it, or they could just run away. Claire just went suicidal over the matter knowing she wouldn't stand a chance.

Also, the last part in vol. 1 is just Claire's fault. I'm surprised they didn't put her into jail after the mess.

In fact, she's causing problem for everyone, and has been doing that for a long time already (put into problem child class, although I bet she just beat anyone insulting her sister) but the abuse falls to Kamito because he was there. If he wasn't there then Claire's already dead. And we'll in trouble with her funeral.

[dragon1412]

debate about Claire again ? you guys sure have a lot of energy if i remember right this have been done alot of pages before isn't it? well if you don't like Claire that much try reading spoilers that Sylphic,kira,Tom,me,... gave before, the position of Claire is gradually lower in later volume so don't rage that much, and more importantly, she got less screen time in later volume, as a character, Claire development is not really good but it also aren't that bad, the thing make you guys rage most is her overwhelming similarity in personality and action to a certain pink-haired Tsundere, and if you have the time to rage, why don't you try to appreciate Est and Restia cuteness instead( or maybe you can join the dark side and see how adorable Ren Ashbell is)

[Kleeyook]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

debate about Claire again ? if i remember right this have been done alot of pages before isn't it? well if you don't like Claire that much try reading spoilers that Sylphic,kira,Tom,me,... gave before, the position of Claire is gradually lower in later volume so don't rage that much, and more importantly, she got less screen time in later volume, as a character, Claire development is not really good but it also aren't that bad, the thing make you guys rage most is her overwhelming similarity in personality and action to a certain pink-haired Tsundere, and if you have the time to rage, why don't you try to appreciate Est and Restia cuteness instead( or maybe you can join the dark side and see how adorable Ren Ashbell is)

She's the cover girl of the first volume of LN...

There's a chance she'll become the sole winner in case the author doesn't give the LN Tenchi Solution ending. And I'd like to assassinate the author before that happen.

I hate character development that doesn't change or improve the annoying aspects of the character but instead showing us other good aspects (that might be really unimportant) of the character. Most violent tsundere will always stay the same. Just a little softer or finally be honest with their feeling.

Spoiler for Similar Cast from HnA:

BTW, it's not just the pink hair girl from ZnT that I hate. I also hate Aria from HnA. I especially hate the part when they formed Team Baskerville with Kinchi as the leader and she said that he was only the leader in name only... She's the boss. The idiotic genius who charged at multiple opponents as strong as Kana (hell, she only manage to fight on par with Riko, who were like ant against Vlad, Kana or Sherlock). Most of her action are suicidal. She has good instinct, but her survival depends entirely on Kinchi...

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by XFire

Nope.

Sorry to be blunt, but of all the girls so far, she's the only one other than Kamito that actually did anything useful in combat. And she managed to yank Kamito out of his BSoD when Restia showed up.

What a big f@cking lie. Rinslet and Elise filled Kamito's stomach whilst Claire forced Kamito to be her slave.

Originally Posted by dragon1412

debate about Claire again ? you guys sure have a lot of energy if i remember right this have been done alot of pages before isn't it? well if you don't like Claire that much try reading spoilers that Sylphic,kira,Tom,me,... gave before, the position of Claire is gradually lower in later volume so don't rage that much, and more importantly, she got less screen time in later volume, as a character, Claire development is not really good but it also aren't that bad, the thing make you guys rage most is her overwhelming similarity in personality and action to a certain pink-haired Tsundere, and if you have the time to rage, why don't you try to appreciate Est and Restia cuteness instead( or maybe you can join the dark side and see how adorable Ren Ashbell is)

Her characteristics doesn't change, that's enough for anyone to hate her.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

She's the cover girl of the first volume of LN...

There's a chance she'll become the sole winner in case the author doesn't give the LN Tenchi Solution ending. And I'd like to assassinate the author before that happen.

I hate character development that doesn't change or improve the annoying aspects of the character but instead showing us other good aspects (that might be really unimportant) of the character. Most violent tsundere will always stay the same. Just a little softer or finally be honest with their feeling.

Spoiler for Similar Cast from HnA:

BTW, it's not just the pink hair girl from ZnT that I hate. I also hate Aria from HnA. I especially hate the part when they formed Team Baskerville with Kinchi as the leader and she said that he was only the leader in name only... She's the boss. The idiotic genius who charged at multiple opponents as strong as Kana (hell, she only manage to fight on par with Riko, who were like ant against Vlad, Kana or Sherlock). Most of her action are suicidal. She has good instinct, but her survival depends entirely on Kinchi...

currently, Claire won't win if things continue to go this way and while its true that most of the time the 1st girl will win but there do exist exception and currently this series is one among those exception.About the similar cast,i said it before, this is due to extreme influences from toradora and shakugan no shana,Znt. The 1st 2 title have an extremely good character development and makes a huge success, for Znt, the character isn't that good but the scales, plot and fighting make it famous. The signs for regconize the girl who will win in a harem story beside 1st appearance is the story(past,memory,..) between the MC and the girl, the time he spend with the girl and his affection toward the girl and unlike Znt where Pink-haired tsundere or HnA with red-haired tsundere dominate all of of them or most of them, in STnBD, Claire is being outclassed in all of them and there are troll moment when claire realize she isn't the one who get most of the MC attention makes it a good series.

Originally Posted by darthfanta

What a big f@cking lie. Rinslet and Elise filled Kamito's stomach whilst Claire forced Kamito to be her slave.

Calm down, darthfanta, well i do agree with you though, while Claire is regard as having high battle ability compare to a normal contractor, she is pretty useless due to her head-on charging which lead to disater, and btw, about fighting ability, most of the girl in Kamito harem except non-human one like the dragon or siprit like est,Restia are about equal to each others.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

debate about Claire again ? you guys sure have a lot of energy if i remember right this have been done alot of pages before isn't it? well if you don't like Claire that much try reading spoilers that Sylphic,kira,Tom,me,... gave before, the position of Claire is gradually lower in later volume so don't rage that much, and more importantly, she got less screen time in later volume, as a character, Claire development is not really good but it also aren't that bad, the thing make you guys rage most is her overwhelming similarity in personality and action to a certain pink-haired Tsundere, and if you have the time to rage, why don't you try to appreciate Est and Restia cuteness instead( or maybe you can join the dark side and see how adorable Ren Ashbell is)

You know. What you suggest is what i already try.
If you read my previous post. You would know i read "Campione!" just for Erica scene and skip every single stupid battle where the one who is the best at trash-talking is the one who win.

But come on. Can you point out any scene, ANY scene that annoying girl isn't in.
Every single battle, i see her boss him around, abuse him which tick off my "how to ask for favor" manner.
Every single romance scene, i see she beats the fuck out the main character even before hearing his explanation when she isn't even his girlfriend.

And yeah, i agree with you Est is soooo cute. Like a scene when she hide under his blanket and the maid uncover it. She said:" ah, Kimato, we are busted."
It is just cute. And no, i am not even lolicon lover.
Haven't read about part with Restia though, but i expect a great romance.

Fiana is fun too. She reminds me of Erica in "Campione!". Assertive girls who create the fun and enjoy the fun.
Sadly, Claire always ruins the fun with all the beating and nonsense, dull, stupid arguments.
No, you know what? Actually, it is not "arguments", but "argument" because all the time, it is "because he is my slave" and that's it., nothing new.
(Damn, she even ruins my flashback/recall.)

[Kleeyook]

^^ Totally agree. Est and Restia are adorable. Fianna and Rinslet are fun. Ellis is hot. But Claire ruins those every time she appears, and she appears in every scenes. When the girls are having romantic moment with Kamito, she must appear to ruin the mood.

We can talk how much the other girls are cute and we shouldn't care about Claire since she's not important. But she happens to appear in every scenes just to ruin the cute moment we have left.

And thus I am fucking mad.

Don't you think it's fucking annoying when someone just appears to ruin your time with your girlfriend constantly?

And for the love of god! Kamito is not her property! Every girls said that to her face but all she talks is "kamito is my slave!" which is too childish! In Chinese manhua, I'm pretty the dude might get bored and snap her neck.

You can't argue with someone like that. And damn, why you guys are defending that bitch!!!!?

I wish you'll understand a hard way if whenever you have rare important moments with someone you fancy ruined every time by your annoying acquaintance, in every opportunities.

[ReaperxKingx]

Whoa there, calm down with the hostility. Everyone has their opinions, its their right as well the rights of others to either accept it or disagree with it. As for Claire, whether you hate her or not. She doesn't really bother me, at times she is annoying and other times she is a blast to read.