Monogatari Series Second Season - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll (Mayoi Jiangshi I)

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, but I think the question is, was she created before or after 11 years ago?

Originally Posted by nikohowell

thank you for clarifying my question since just like Mayoi and Araragi, they all "died" and "revived"

11 years ago, is Yotsuki a human, dead or now a familiar? she might not be even born at this time yet

I don't want to go into detail beyond what we are suppose to know, I received enough warnings as it is.

But here are the facts; Yotsuki is both a Shikigami...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikigami

And a Tsukumogami
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukumogami

Now, Shikigami is easy to understand. You use magic to create a magical servant from inanimate objects.

But her also being a Tsukumogami is actually slightly... horrifying.

See, Tsukumogami are suppose to be regular, household objects that gained sentience after 100 years of human use. (Think of it like it gaining a soul after being loved and cared for over a century.)

But Yotsugi has a problem; she isn't based on something normal like an umbrella or a music instrument, she is based on a CORPSE.

A corpse, that was owned as a tool, for a century.

What kind of messed up uses can one have with the preserved corpse of a girl? And for her to be "used" for 100 years continuously?

Regardless, Yozuru only created her in recent times, and Yozuru herself is a normal aged human mortal. So whatever reason Yotsugi was used as a tool for a century, Yozuru is not responsible for it.

As for what Yotsugi is doing 11 years ago? She would either be already a Familiar, or she is still a corpse.

[omimon]

She is younger.

[teja208]

Originally Posted by Wigwams

even worse was the fact that he missed his homework because he watched Heart Catch Precure.

Not just that, but Shinobu doesn't seem to put much thought into what she's about to do. I don't think she even for a bit consider the possibility of them ending up in a wrong time period or how they're supposed to return. I can't wait to see Araragi's reaction at the start of the next episode. If I had to guess, hysterical is an understatement.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by teja208

Not just that, but Shinobu doesn't seem to put much thought into what she's about to do. I don't think she even for a bit consider the possibility of them ending up in a wrong time period or how they're supposed to return. I can't wait to see Araragi's reaction at the start of the next episode. If I had to guess, hysterical is an understatement.

As an immortal, Shinobu just doesn't care. That was the reason she needed him to be the navigator, she did say she need him to get them to the right time.

I mean, for an immortal, what's the worst thing that can happen? You get stuck in the middle ages and take a couple of centuries to get back home?

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

I was thinking more along the lines of Araragi being the reason Mayoi is going to die. I think I read the words "Mayoi Vamp" in the beginning of the episode. Which could mean she gets turned in to a vampire or something else horrible is going to happen to Mayoi and killing her is the only way to free her from a horrible fate.

The title of the story is "Mayoi Jiangshi", where the jiangshi is the Chinese equivalent of a vampire, though closer to a zombie for Western thinking.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Sorry. In my opinion, the start was NisioIsshin at his worst: Wordy and _boring_. Frankly, after all the Hanekawa episodes, what I want is not pseudo-profound BLAH from secondary characters I don't care about, but interesting characters actually DOING interesting things.

Well, Monogatari is about various characters, whom the author deals with in individual stories. Keep waiting and eventually even your turn will come

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Yotsuki is now a magical Familiar. Shinto mages in myth is suppose to be able to create servants out of inanimate objects. Yotsuki is now an Oddity, not a human, so she is an un-aging golem. Also note that she actually destroys a part of herself to use her energy beam attack last season, and that her regeneration repairs the damaged part instantly.

No, Yotsugi doesn't have an energy beam. She simply enlarges her finger. As a note, Yotsugi presented herself as a shikigami. The shikigami are famous as spirits used as servants by the onmyouji ("master of the yin and the yang"). Yozuru described herself as a battle oriented onmyouji.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

No, Yotsugi doesn't have an energy beam. She simply enlarges her finger. As a note, Yotsugi presented herself as a shikigami. The shikigami are famous as spirits used as servants by the onmyouji ("master of the yin and the yang"). Yozuru described herself as a battle oriented onmyouji.

1. It doesn't matter what she actually did, the result is that she generated plasma at great force that destroys things on contact.

2. We found out this episode that she is much more than a Shikigami. The fact that she is made from a human corpse is, as she said, a secret.

The title of the story is "Mayoi Jiangshi", where the jiangshi is the Chinese equivalent of a vampire, though closer to a zombie for Western thinking.

Funny that, Yotsugi is actually much closer to the old school definition of Jiangshi. All that vampiric characteristics were introduced from the West into Chinese culture relatively recently. So in a way, the title of this arc has multiple meanings.

[taichi-kun]

So ononoki is there because gaen called her for a secret job..

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

1. It doesn't matter what she actually did, the result is that she generated plasma at great force that destroys things on contact.

Considering she basically used magic, I am not sure if what she did could be classified using thermodynamics' vocabulary.

[Sol Falling]

Wow, the Ougi and Yotsugi dialogue segments were incredible. I had no idea Ougi got introduced into the story this early in the books, and her presentation was quite unsettling. The tie in into Mayoi's death also gave an unexpected concrete weight to Ougi's sophistic babblings which otherwise had no practical applications.

As for Yotsugi, my favourite part was Yotsugi's new 'proverb' ("To teach is a moment's superiority; not to, eternal.") which is just so hilariously twisted I have to marvel how 1. Nishio managed to come up with it, and 2. managed to just throw it into a casual conversation. But the rest of it was just sheer enjoyment too.

Definitely can't wait for the rest of the arc; my expectations are sky high.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Mentar

...Sorry. In my opinion, the start was NisioIsshin at his worst: Wordy and _boring_. Frankly, after all the Hanekawa episodes, what I want is not pseudo-profound BLAH from secondary characters I don't care about, but interesting characters actually DOING interesting things. Only the last 5 minutes succeeded in that....

I can see why you feel that way, but I found this episode highly enjoyable. Of course, I think Shinbou's *monogatari series shows just operate at a higher level than almost all other anime. There is so much art of all kinds here: not just in how the show looks, but in the rhythms and pacing that Shinbou is such a master of. And Nisio Ishin may be a bit of a one-trick pony, and not all his dialogues of equal interest, but still the dialogue here soars above normal anime dialogue.

I do want also to venture my opinion that Sakamoto Maaya -- as outstanding as she is in a show like Kara no Kyoukai -- just isn't doing it for me here. I hear neither the young loli nor the ages-old vampire. Too bland for my taste. But I was still very happy to be able to spend so much time with Shinobu, whether I thought her voice perfect or not.

On the other hand, I was bowled over by Mizuhashi Kaori's sharp diction as the glassy-eyed Oshino girl. And Hayami Saori's voice is always so warm and lovely.

Moreover, this show has what may be my favorite ED of the season, by the wonderful Haruna Luna.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Wow, the Ougi and Yotsugi dialogue segments were incredible. I had no idea Ougi got introduced into the story this early in the books, and her presentation was quite unsettling. The tie in into Mayoi's death also gave an unexpected concrete weight to Ougi's sophistic babblings which otherwise had no practical applications.

The way I see it she was basically informing the viewers that she has some sort of grand master plan she is putting in motion.

You know what? At first I thought Ougi was creepy, but after seeing VOFAN's depiction of her in the end card I started to like the character. Now I hope she succeeds

[omimon]

Can someone post the end card?

[DorkingtonPugsly]

I'll get a bigger img if I can but here.

[omimon]

I am not going to lie, the stocking+gloves+hat high class look is pretty fucking moe.

[ultimate_noob]

Even Nisio has prepared a looong book for Ougi. Three grand chapters and a manga adaption. I think Nisio has loved the Ougi designs. Even more when he heard how she speaks in the anime. You know what? Fuck this.

Team Ougi let's go!

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I can see why you feel that way, but I found this episode highly enjoyable. Of course, I think Shinbou's *monogatari series shows just operate at a higher level than almost all other anime. There is so much art of all kinds here: not just in how the show looks, but in the rhythms and pacing that Shinbou is such a master of. And Nisio Ishin may be a bit of a one-trick pony, and not all his dialogues of equal interest, but still the dialogue here soars above normal anime dialogue.

I do want also to venture my opinion that Sakamoto Maaya -- as outstanding as she is in a show like Kara no Kyoukai -- just isn't doing it for me here. I.

This show has been pretty much all interesting dialogue so far(by that, there was always some meaning to a long conversation), so I can't see how you can agree with him beyond a subjective bias for sight gags or the like. Even with a more subdued atmosphere, things were still going on, as the characters interacted with each other. The whole dialogue between Yotsugi and Koyomi in particular added well needed insight. This was always a character driven ensemble cast style show, so it's a bit bizarre for people to come in not expecting that at this point unless you're really starting off with this season first, which would be a mistake anyway.

On Maaya's performance as Shinobu, yeah, I have to say I much preferred her performance in Nise as Shinobu to now, hopefully that will change.

[teja208]

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

This show has been pretty much all interesting dialogue so far(by that, there was always some meaning to a long conversation), so I can't see how you can agree with him beyond a subjective bias for sight gags or the like. Even with a more subdued atmosphere, things were still going on, as the characters interacted with each other. The whole dialogue between Yotsugi and Koyomi in particular added well needed insight. This was always a character driven ensemble cast style show, so it's a bit bizarre for people to come in not expecting that at this point unless you're really starting off with this season first, which would be a mistake anyway.

On Maaya's performance as Shinobu, yeah, I have to say I much preferred her performance in Nise as Shinobu to now, hopefully that will change.

Character driven story doesn't work for everyone. It's not the bias for sight gags, but rather bias for characters. Since each story is where character takes their turn to shine. if they dislike the character, they care even less about the dialogue even if the dialogue may become significant latter.

Few example:

Nadeko fans: NADEKO FREAKING WERE

Tsubasa haters: Why the hell does Tsubasa gets so many arcs/episodes for herself? She's boring, I hate her.

You see, it's no longer the same as when Bake aired, since at that time people still didn't develop their attachments and bias toward any character in particular, but things are different now. Some people just doesn't have the patients to wait for character they like to show up.

The rest of the complain regarding this episode why nothing happened yet and time travel plot sucks. Again, they don't have the patients to wait till things starts happening. I think these people are better of watching the whole arc in one go before complaining instead of episode by episode.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by teja208

You see, it's no longer the same as when Bake aired, since at that time people still didn't develop their attachments and bias toward any character in particular, but things are different now. Some people just doesn't have the patients to wait for character they like to show up.

The rest of the complain regarding this episode why nothing happened yet and time travel plot sucks. Again, they don't have the patients to wait till things starts happening. I think these people are better of watching the whole arc in one go before complaining instead of episode by episode.

I have a negative opinion of fandoms, which more often than not tend to be detrimental to the enjoyment of a show, but anyway it has been four years since Bake aired, and it is clear that the initial enthusiasm and thrill is not there anymore. At the time the story was full of possibilities and nobody knew what was going on. Nowadays things are different, people have more of an idea of the direction the story is taking and they are fully aware that maybe they are not going to like it.

It probably doesn't help if some fans are stereotypical Millennials. Monogatari as a series goes more for a slow payoff. In this regard, the first series was magic, but from the point of view of someone who read the original LNs it was just a bunch of short introductive stories. The following books with all their buildup were the real deal.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

I have a negative opinion of fandoms, which more often than not tend to be detrimental to the enjoyment of a show, but anyway it has been four years since Bake aired, and it is clear that the initial enthusiasm and thrill is not there anymore. At the time the story was full of possibilities and nobody knew what was going on. Nowadays things are different, people have more of an idea of the direction the story is taking and they are fully aware that maybe they are not going to like it.

It probably doesn't help if some fans are stereotypical Millennials. Monogatari as a series goes more for a slow payoff. In this regard, the first series was magic, but from the point of view of someone who read the original LNs it was just a bunch of short introductive stories. The following books with all their buildup were the real deal.

This. Also it really is a shame that Kizu isn't animated yet since a majority of the enjoyment of kabuki is how it builds on Kizu.

[zato_1one]

I still value Bakemonogatari the most. Introductory or not, if it's not for its success then we wouldn't have any more story to follow up.