Sword Art Online - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Minoye]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Again, I'd like to point out, that D&D, arguably the mother of all RPG's, has plenty of illusions that deal damage. "Your mind makes it real" is old. Very old.

Well, I understand why people are septic.
IMHO what Kirito used is more of a transmutation spell (like polymorph).

Illusion spells are meant to distort reality and can do mental damage, but they don't change the properties (shape, reach, weapon, etc.) of an object. For example, invisibility does not directly change your body, but how others can (or rather cannot anymore) perceive it.
Here, Kirito can clearly use his new form.

What is making me smile is that an "illusion" spell is used in a "virtual" world. From this perspective, it makes more sense how illusion works in SAO.

[HandofFate]

I'm surprised Kirito could actually pronounce the spell names so fluently on his first try...I'm terrible with pronunciation.

Anyone know if the chant has any rhyme or reason to it or is there some floating translation out there of the words? I assume the same chant words appear for the same tree of spells.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Minoye

Well, I understand why people are septic.
IMHO what Kirito used is more of a transmutation spell (like polymorph).

Illusion spells are meant to distort reality and can do mental damage, but they don't change the properties (shape, reach, weapon, etc.) of an object.

You create a phantasmal image of the most fearsome creature imaginable to the subject simply by forming the fears of the subject’s subconscious mind into something that its conscious mind can visualize: this most horrible beast. Only the spell’s subject can see the phantasmal killer. You see only a vague shape. The target first gets a Will save to recognize the image as unreal. If that save fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed on a Fortitude save or die from fear. Even if the Fortitude save is successful, the subject takes 3d6 points of damage.

This is the exact wording of a D&D illusion spell, so in a sense it alters reach (it makes you think it can touch you). The only differences here were that kirito could control the phantasm and was also affected by the illusion (thinking himself to be a monter) and that everybody saw the same monster.

[DragoZERO]

More silly Kirito faces while fighting... lol.

Next episode is going to be great.

[Kizoku Keenan]

Kirito using illusion magic to turn into that monster was pretty epic, kind of reminded me of turning into a werewolf in skyrim...

Cait Sith kind of look like the cat creatures from outlaw star and their race name is similar to if memory serves me right.

The next episode should be an epic fest. Meh why can't their be online games like SAO and Alfheim meh meh meh!

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by Kizoku Keenan

Kirito using illusion magic to turn into that monster was pretty epic, kind of reminded me of turning into a werewolf in skyrim...

Cait Sith kind of look like the cat creatures from outlaw star and their race name is similar to if memory serves me right.

The next episode should be an epic fest. Meh why can't their be online games like SAO and Alfheim meh meh meh!

There are, they're just very old and not VR.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Xacual

There are, they're just very old and not VR.

I would play online games if they were VR. It's like, 10000000x the fun.

[Minoye]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

You create a phantasmal image of the most fearsome creature imaginable to the subject simply by forming the fears of the subject’s subconscious mind into something that its conscious mind can visualize: this most horrible beast. Only the spell’s subject can see the phantasmal killer. You see only a vague shape. The target first gets a Will save to recognize the image as unreal. If that save fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed on a Fortitude save or die from fear. Even if the Fortitude save is successful, the subject takes 3d6 points of damage.

This is the exact wording of a D&D illusion spell, so in a sense it alters reach (it makes you think it can touch you). The only differences here were that kirito could control the phantasm and was also affected by the illusion (thinking himself to be a monter) and that everybody saw the same monster.

Nothing in the definition of this spell is contrary to what I said before :
Like explained, it is a phantasmal image, thus not real.
A phantasm is what it is... Something from your imagination.
Something unreal and from your imagination cannot touch you, it can only make you believe it is.
You also said it clearly : "it makes you think it can touch you"
Something that cannot touch you has no reach to begin with.

If we talk about D&D rules, not doubt about it for me : Illusion is all about deceiving your perception.
It does not alter matter in any way, which falls in the domain of the transmutation magic school.

[Swordstriker21]

Okay let me just attempt to address some issues and questions people have w/ the episode. First regarding the "illusion" spell: the japanese really do have a tendency to favor the concept of "real illusions". Lot's of manga and anime have this concept featured prominently (Rokudo Mukuro of Reborn comes to mind) and considering their tendency for using some english words that end up being misnomers I'm not really all that surprised.

Now regarding the spell mechanics itself; the way it rolls is it randomly changes the appearance of a Spriggan player into that of an in-game monster w/ no change in over-all stats. That's why most players find it useless because if you turn into a huge monster but have crap stats you'll just be turning into bigger target practice material. Also if you end up turning into a monster that doesn't have wings you'll lose the ability to fly w/c is really bad in some cases. The monster you turn into is largely affected by your stats (skills). Thus the stronger your stats are the more chances you roll out a boss monster. Now since Kirito has haxed stats carried over from SAO he is able to fully take advantage of the changes in reach and size to get a hit in on the salamanders. And one hit from him is enough to OHKO a low to mid level player so it all pans out.

As for him not flying to disrupt their formation; it's not the animes fault entirely but the staff cut off the part where they explain that you actually can't fly in underground cave areas. There is also a height limit in the normal overworld, not to mention the wings time limit until cooldown. They also weren't able to portray well the fact that the salamander spell casters were all highly skilled players who have really fast casting times so if he attempts to break the formation he's going to get a mouthfull of fireballs. Also there weren't supposed to be just three tanks. It was supposed to be enough to cover the narrow bridge they were on so there were no openings.

[garbage]

^ actually Leefa did explain last episode that they cant fly underground. That's why they were walking/running in the rugru corridor. It wasn't a mistake in the anime's part.....maybe some others just missed this part, that's why they thought Kirito could fly over the phalanx. Same reason why the salamander guys cant fly to escape Kirito/Gleameyes.

about the 3 person phalanx, yeah that's a bit weird. Considering that Kirito can run/dash pretty fast, and can go around them, same way he did the first battle. probably some time/cost cutting ^^

All in all pretty fun episode, I feel it's better than the last few ones, and that trade deal was great

[Definitegj]

I think the animation studio screwed up by making the bridge too wide.

[FlareKnight]

I guess in the end it's just a need to take one's normal perception of illusion and expand it a bit. Would admit to falling into the normal perception when they were talking about illusions earlier. Just took a few moments within the fight when Kirito starting biting down on people to think 'oh his form changes, but stats probably remain the same.'

Makes sense that normally illusion magic in a fight would be looked down on. If you are out in the open they can outmaneuver you in the air and not to mention depending on form you turn into a really big target. Worked fine for Kirito since he just needed their formation to break down to get the clean hit. Pretty impressive that he was knocking their health down past half while they were guarded. Sometimes all you need is an opening.

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I would play online games if they were VR. It's like, 10000000x the fun.

Yeah, I'm not big on MMO's, but the day they can make something like SAO/ALO I am there . Would just be way more fun.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Minoye

Well, I understand why people are septic.

Then they should get to a hospital.

Originally Posted by Kizoku Keenan

Cait Sith kind of look like the cat creatures from outlaw star and their race name is similar to if memory serves me right.

In case it wasn't obvious, every race has its roots in European mythology. Also, Cait Sith was a cat character in Final Fantasy VII.

[dark998]

Best episode of the ALO arc so far and one of the best in a while, quite unusual for the series to have fights using actual tactics (simple ones, but still) rather than simply charge and slash at will. And Kirito in Gleameyes mode was impressive.

The plot also advanced a fair bit so yeah, great episode all around.

[GundamZZ]

Originally Posted by Definitegj

I think the animation studio screwed up by making the bridge too wide.

So, Leefa and Kirito can use the funny bridge as a device for Balrog joke?

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[Hooves]

When I heard Sugu say "illusion magic that turns you into a big monster." I had a prediction that it was going to be Gleameyes counting Kirito. The look-a-like made things epic, especially with that soundtrack again. Definitely looking forward to the next episode.

[Unknown Soldier]

I feel like we didn't see Imouto's Boobs enough this episode.

[Arturia Polaris]

I keep finding Lyfa cuter than Asuna

Arty

[Zeriand]

Well, I do agree that most of the first half episodes of SAO was a disaster because the writing style the author adopted for the novel just wasn't fit to be an anime. However, it is a lot better since the beginning of ALO (which ironically, was one of the weakest arcs in the entire SAO series) and so far it had even motivated me to go through the original novels once more.

[dmaxzero]

The problem is the media. In the LN you feel the urgency of saving Asuna, here is too diluted somehow.

I enjoy the combat and game mechanics of ALO, but its feel like simply entertaining than anything else.