2007-02-09, 21:03 | Link #1 |
勇者
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 34
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Mobile Suit in actual battle useful or not?
In gundam universe tanks and airplanes are now replaced by mobile suit, now in real life would it work?
Pro for Mobile suit would be able to change weapon for different situation unlike tanks, it will be able to be use in different type of terrain mountain, desert, space, and etc unlike tanks. Cons would be expansive as hell, way too big and easy target, slow mobility(maybe). And don't think using mobile suit is dumb idea, remember that in world war 1 tank were useless, but now it is one of the main weapon in war. Maybe they could make it smaller to make it more efficient.
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2007-02-09, 22:19 | Link #3 | ||||
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2007-02-09, 22:41 | Link #4 |
Gamyūsa
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
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maybe they can dominate the battle feild but not for many many years as technology isnt good enuff to make it practical. sure theyre big but give it enuff mobility then its fast and agile. it would be able to change tactics easily enuff given enuff skill.
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2007-02-09, 22:43 | Link #5 | |||
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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I'd think, by the xx century, they would have developed neurotechonology by then. You know, the idea of linking a warmachine directly to human conscious is an intriguing idea. Quote:
Tanks also did little to change trench warfare. Fact is, by 1918, at the end of the war, 1 million German soldiers, intact, still occupied half of French territory. While the British Expedition Forces and the French Army had all but melted away... If not for the US-entry (without tanks), well, history could be very different. - Tak (But we can discuss World War I privately, ja?)
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2007-02-09, 23:42 | Link #7 | |||
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Right now, we can't build anything even remotely resembling legged mecha that would have the slightest application on the battlefield. It would be a minor miracle to construct something that could walk short distances without falling over.
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2007-02-10, 01:41 | Link #8 |
Fansubber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Personally, I am an advocate of the idea that mecha are impractical with the current socio-political situation and level of technology and won't be either possible or practical for some time (if at all), while still maintaining the idea that Mobile Suits make a reasonable amount of sense for the UC universe under which they were developed and envisioned, though. History has often shown that technology that may seem impractical in one era can be entirely practical to produce in another under vastly different and unexpected circumstances.
Mecha, in the UC Gundam universe make a reasonable amount of sense when coupled with the development of space technology, exploration and warfare. The worker machines from which they originated (essentially, exo-skeleton like worker suits... or very early low level construction "Mobile Suits") were vastly helpful for the process of doing complicated tasks in space on a larger scale. From there, technology continued to advance until someone decided to attempt to use them for warfare. They were only produced in limited scale amounts until the beginning of the one year War where Zeon hoped to use their maneuverability to trump the weaker armored federation space fighters of the era. The success of the MS meant they would be used during the ground operations as well, but it's debatable if they actually made much of a difference on the earth. Indeed, early on in the war we see that even Zeon still frequently used fighters and tanks to counter their Federation opponents. The escalation of the war itself and the need to counter these machines led to the rapid advancement of these war machines... but even then, the Federation... or the majority of the earth sphere only used MS on a limited scale compared to their other resources to fight the war. In other words, Mobile Suits, even in Gundam, were fairly rare during the original One Year War until the last few months where the arms race forced the Federation to attempt MS development of their own in order to counter Zeon's strategy. This would probably be one of the ONLY "hard-science" scenarios I can really recall where they truly became practical in warfare. Without any kind of similar arms race and somewhat unusual circumstances, mecha would probably never be mainline within warfare. I honestly do feel that Gundam did a fairly good job of rationalizing their existence, though. I suppose weather or not they were practical in the other AU series is debatable, though. I suspect their origins were similar in G, Wing, and X, but we're not extensively given the details behind their origins and uses in these universes... and they're presented in somewhat less "realistic" fashions then they are in the other series. C.E. did a fairly decent job of rationalizing their existence as well, though... but it all kind of starts to get shakey towards the end of the first SEED. Edit: Having said all this, MS IGLOO episode 2 is actually a pretty excellent example of how Mobile Suits could compare to battle tanks in a more realisitc and balanced battle. They "CAN" be overpowered fairly easily with good battle tactics, but they're hardly useless if used correctly either. Infact, the YTM-05 Mobile Tank "Hildolfr" would probably be an excellent example of a more realisitc combination of tank and mecha techology. I fail to see why Zeon simply tossed it aside. |
2007-02-10, 02:21 | Link #9 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I say bullshit on MSes, period. Know why? Because why the hell would we want a huge slow walking target, with critical weakpoints (knees, shoulder joints)?
Put it this way: you are a target the size of a skyscraper and show up on every backwater radar for miles around. A stealth fighter launches several missiles at you from beyond visual range. You are completely assraped. As much as I love the S. Freedom and Infinite Justice and the extension of Her Holy Pinkness's beautiul armaments, that's a bunch of fiction and you know it. In reality, mobile suits would be these big lumbering hulking machines that would be lucky to float, let alone make the top superfighters of today look like a big LOL like the freedom does. As someone mentioned, if you put the funding for what goes into MSes into existing fighter jets, well, just take the scariest thing you can find in the ace combat series of games and multiply its efficiency by around 10-30x. And also, when you're trying to hunt guerillas in buildings or in caves, the last thing you need is a giant multibillion dollar piece of junk plodding around.
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2007-02-10, 02:33 | Link #10 | ||
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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And while the US did maintain a carrier task force, it was Japan that pioneered carrier warfare. Likewise, we don't know what will happen in the future. Maybe they'd develop synthetic muscles more flexible and durable than iron and steel. We will never know. Quote:
- Tak
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2007-02-10, 03:15 | Link #11 | ||||||
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The reason why aircraft carriers can have a very effective role whereas mecha cannot is that the former occupy a niche that's impossible for any other machine to share. There's no way to substitute for the power projection capabilities that an aircraft carrier gives you, while the very point of mecha is to substitute for existing war machines. Therefore, their practicality can be determined by how well they perform compared to their competitor. For land warfare, this would be the tank. As I stated earlier, tanks enjoy all sorts of advantages over mecha and very few disadvantages. Quote:
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On the other hand, powered-armor would always come in handy, as a supplement to infantry if nothing else. As a side note, provided they are given proper infantry support, modern tanks have proven to be absolutely devastating in urban combat. Moreover, while tanks are always a balance of tradeoffs between protection, firepower and mobility, modern main battle tanks are dedicated to protection first and foremost. It would be the light tanks and IFVs which favor firepower or mobility over protection.
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2007-02-10, 03:48 | Link #12 | ||||
Catholic = Cat addiction?
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- - - I wouldn't confine the idea of a combat mecha to that of a tank though. I'd expect something much more. Think Xenosaga. Quote:
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- Tak
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2007-02-10, 04:04 | Link #13 | ||||
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2007-02-10, 12:15 | Link #14 |
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Like most of you have said, Gundams as they are portrayed in Anime are utterly impossible to implement in the modern battlefield or in the forseeable future. However, there is real development in bipedal mechanized "exoskeletons." These are worn by an individual and detect electrical impulses from the nerves associated with various muscles, and then the joints move according to these impulses. I've seen a prototype in Popular Science, and it allows the user to lift loads of significant weight, while retaining the mobility of a humanoid form. The article wrote that it was being designed for construction applications, but the military was interested as well. Rather than being the "tanks" of the battlefield, armored exoskeleton-wearing soldiers would act as fast strike forces, being able to run faster and carry bigger loads than conventional infantry. Kinda cool i think.
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2007-02-10, 21:12 | Link #15 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Well, there is a Gundam Musou Game going to release for PS3 (I think is Japanese version), develop by Koei and it is just like Dynasty Warrior, instead of men fighting it switch to Gundam fighting on a map, the game has many mecha in it (some say they even have Turn A in it.). I tink it give you some idea of what might look like in real battle. But i hope no G gundam in this game since they are too powerful (these gundams are all for Kung fu purpose.).
However in UC 0079, the EF actually have tanks fighting in certain battles, and Zeon also put ground soldiers on the field (soldiers with guns) too. I saw the a collection of Zeon soldier figures. |
2007-02-10, 21:42 | Link #16 | |
Zeonic
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As for their usefullness on the ground during the OYW, they failed miserably against conventional armor and aircraft in the open, however held on into the last days of the war in less friendly terrain like the jungles of Southeast Asia or mountains like those in Afghanistan that chewed up the great mechanized army of the Soviet Union and spat it out. |
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2007-02-10, 22:51 | Link #17 | ||||
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The tank in the picture is a M1 Abrams, and yes, it's about as small a target (from the front) as a Zaku II's foot. If we take an average storey to be about 8' tall, a Zaku II will be over 7 storeys tall. Good luck hiding something like that anywhere aside from skyscrapers or apartment complexes. While it wouldn't be impossible to hide a mobile suit in a forest and the like, it's still a lot easier to spot one than to spot something like a tank. Offtopic: It's probably worth noting that the F-22 has about the same dimensions (and incidentally the same mass) as a B-17 bomber from World War II.
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2007-02-10, 23:50 | Link #20 | |
Zeonic
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Stats for the F22: Length 62.08 feet, 18.90 meters Height 16.67 feet, 5.08 meters Wingspan 44.5 feet, 13.56 meters According to Wikipedia, a meter is equal to 3.281 feet. Doing the math (height in meters X 3.281) a Zaku II is 57.4175 feet tall. By your calculations of 8 feet per storey we get 7.1771875. So your right... But my point is that mobile suits are often made out to be outright ludicrous in size and sitting ducks because of it when they can find cover without much trouble.(Igloo Ep 2, and that was open terrain!) What's interesting to note is that all the images of the F22 certainly don't make it out to be as big as it actually is...either that or your Abrams is out of scale on that pic. Didn't know that about the B17... |
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