2012-09-25, 00:14 | Link #401 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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But it's so hard not to think "You know, there's a really easy solution to this problem -- turn it off!" I prefer Archon_Wing's explanation: masochists, the whole lot of you.
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2012-09-25, 06:20 | Link #402 | |
The Undead Summoner
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The Philippine Islands
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PS: I was reek of both gin and cigs last time... just ignore my earlier post if you really have a hard time understanding it, and think of me as a sharp double-edged sword. Other thing, DO NOT DELETE THAT REPLY, AS IT WILL REMIND ME OF MY OWN MISTAKES (mostly, because of the environment I grew up in: an open dumpsite community with people who desperately hoped for a change to happen, but has never come to fruition yet... but also there are other factors involved).
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2012-09-25, 06:27 | Link #403 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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If that is the case, then the disinterest does not come into play or comes way too late into play. There is also another kind of hate that i am seeing, but that looks more like a bias towards it's genre or it's popularity. Like for example there aee lots of hate towards the generic "moeblob" (like k-on) or "shounen action" (like "the shounen jump big 3": one piece,naruto and bleach) series. |
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2012-09-25, 06:51 | Link #404 |
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I think that there's a certain phenomena in the anime fan community (and in the fan communities of most modern entertainment forms, really) that plays a huge role in how certain anime shows (or video games, comic books, etc...) can become seriously hated.
That phenomena is that there's a vague sense of "Geek Cred" (for lack of a better term, perhaps) that comes with being able to say "I saw it, I played it, I read it". In other words, if you're part of a dedicated fan community, there can be an implicit expectation that you've seen, played, read all of the most widely talked about offerings of whatever it is your fan community is about. So, with gamers for example, there might be a sense that if you've never tried Halo, or if you've never tried Medal of Honor, or if you've never tried WoW, then you're not a "real" gamer - You're not experiencing the gaming world to the full extent that you should. Now, I'm certainly not defending this sort of fan community mentality, but it is there, and it is pervasive, even if it is at a subtle and/or unstated level. A member of a fan community can easily feel "left out" if he or she hasn't experienced the more heavily hyped entertainment offerings that the fan community talks about. So, some people watch K-On, and they watch the Monogatari series, and they watch Madoka Magica, and they watch Sword Art Online, because there's a vague (but real) sense that "If you're a serious anime fan, you've at least seen this show, and ideally you've watched it in its entirety!". But of course not all anime fans are going to like all of these shows. So some serious anime fans may sort of "soldier through" a show they don't like because there's a sense of expectation that being an anime fan entails watching what your fellow anime fans are talking so much about. So people will watch through shows that they don't really, truly like just because of the hype, and there's a certain frustration that comes from this. You truly come to hate a show because you don't like the show and it's popularity is "making" you watch it so you can assure your image as a serious anime fan isn't tarnished. Of course, you don't really have to watch it, but you don't want to feel left out of the conversation either. This is why the most popular shows can at times be very polarizing while the more obscure shows rarely have a serious "hate-base" - Precisely because they're obscure, people feel more at ease in dropping them even after just a displeasing episode or two. As I get older, I feel more comfortable in not having seen all of the big-name titles. For example, I only watched a couple episodes of Horizon because the show just didn't click with me. I had a sense that soldiering through that show would just make me hate it, and that wouldn't benefit either serious Horizon fans or myself. But I admit from time-to-time I feel compelled to watch a show because it's what most or all of my anime-watching friends are talking about. So there can be that temptation to "soldier through" what you don't really like just to satisfy your anime-watching friends, and that can easily lead to a person hating a show. Now, E8 is a great example of a different reason why shows become hated. Say you've already seen Haruhi, and you really do love the series and show. E8 comes around, and it may be tremendously disappointing and upsetting to you because you're a fan of Haruhi.
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2012-09-25, 07:28 | Link #405 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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("You" here meaning "general you" and not referring to Triple_R)
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2012-09-25, 07:40 | Link #406 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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As for not being worth it, i even more strongly disagree on that. Personally , I think criticism from the perspective of someone who disliked a show is also needed for a better discussion. |
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2012-09-25, 07:53 | Link #407 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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I don't think I've ever seen anything worthwhile coming about as a result of someone who flat out hates an anime joining in discussion about it, to be honest.
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2012-09-25, 08:14 | Link #408 | ||
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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I can see how some anime fans might want to try series that initially doesn't appeal to them due to all the praise that it got. It's even possible that some of them might change their minds about it and apprectiate it. If you don't try something, then you can't say for sure that you don't like it. (note: there are obvious notable exceptions to what i posted, like people who are afraid of blood definitely don't need to watch a horror/slasher movie to say that they don't like it) Quote:
Of course, baseless hate doesn't lead to anything. But not every "hate" is baseless. |
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2012-09-25, 08:41 | Link #409 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Of course it's not always the case. I'm talking about when it is the case.
Edit: To clarify, I do of course realize there are times when one might be won over by an anime one doesn't initially expect to like. Hell, that's what happened to me with K-ON!. Still, you can't tell me there aren't times when you can tell from the start that you're going to hate a show. Those are the times I'm talking about. That's when I think it's useless to suffer through it just so you can say "I watched it".
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Last edited by Goggen; 2012-09-25 at 08:52. |
2012-09-25, 09:41 | Link #410 | |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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Apologies for bringing a topic that has been left from the previous page.
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I thought Hidan no Aria would handle a "descendant of Sherlock Holmes" character among those who claimed to have the bloodline of famous figures in history, but when I saw how the story resorted to sheer "dumb action" that is a sign of a mediocre light novel series, I went "fuck that shit" and dropped the series after the end of the first story arc. [I later realized that it was a good choice to have dropped this series, especially with how dismal the light novels' story development goes.] On the current flow of discussion: that reminds me. I keep of picking up new series (added Robotics;Notes and Little Busters!) and my backlog keeps on growing. FML.
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2012-09-25, 14:33 | Link #412 | |
Autistic NEET bath lover
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: France
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2012-09-25, 16:25 | Link #413 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In line to confess his sins.
Age: 36
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I think Hidan no Aria has a lot more appeal if you've yet to see any of the other, similar series. If I saw it when I was fresh into the fandom, I probably would have liked it at lot more, but as it stands, I've seen Kugimiya Rie in a handful of similar roles, and seen so many of the cliches in the show time and time again that it just fails to entertain.
Its main problem, in my mind, is that it's simply generic. Not horrible, just completely run of the mill.
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2012-09-25, 23:41 | Link #415 | ||
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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The latter suggests negatively passionate about the subject, which does not produce a good criticism. Your argument about a subject needing critical viewpoint is actually counter-productive if it's generated from such passion. Constructive criticism is spawned from a healthy balance of objective and subjective view, collected by a cool head. Not a passionate one. This isn't just about anime, it's about anything in general. If you want to actually have a meaningful, constructive dicussion, hate doesn't play a role anywhere in it. Everyone is free to hate anything you want, but don't expect to be welcomed in a discussion on the subject... be it an opinion on an entertainment medium, religion, politics, or any other subject of discussion.
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Last edited by aohige; 2012-09-25 at 23:55. |
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2012-09-26, 00:04 | Link #416 | |
On a mission
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For example, if you hate Kugrie tsunderes, the sight of one that even resembles such traits could cause you to violently convulse. This isn't something that can be solved simply by not watching it depending on how influential an anime is. What am I gonna do? Avoid every anime with a tsundere in it? Or let's say you really didn't like Evangelion and enjoyed hot blooded mecha anime. Eventually, over time, your preference of mecha anime gets overtaken by an excess of brooding anti-heroes with lots of introspection. And a bunch of Shinji/Rei clones pop around in every show you attempt to watch, even ones far away from the mecha genre. Would that dislike not evolve into resentment? It's no surprise that whatever the popular moe show is gets an undue amount of hate because people perceive it to be some kind of disease that infects their "good" anime. K-on (And Lucky Star before), for example gets hated by the "Kyoani y u no FMP" crowd, and Haruhi/Key stuff got the same flak back then. I think it was most blatant when I first decided to frequent AS and people were attributing "K-onification" as a criticism of Haruhi 2009, and at that time I was like "WTF is everyone talking about?". Still, I've had plenty of useful conversations with people that outright hate shows I like. I like to view it sometimes from other views, and often times they actually have legitimate points that bothered them too much but not you, so it's really not a bad discussion as many as would think.
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2012-09-26, 00:15 | Link #417 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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1. Become self-aware enough to recognize that your bias is not objective 2. Don't blame the show (or its staff or its fans) for your own bias 3. Try to be reasonable/fair with other people who have different perspectives than you do 4. Don't let your bias get the best of you (or let fellow "haters" fuel your fire too much) If you're going into a show knowing it has elements you don't like, it doesn't make much sense to harp on it for doing the very things you should have known it was going to do. This just makes you look like a fool who doesn't know how to show discernment, or some sort of troll who has to keep on repeating forgone conclusions just to draw attention to yourself. Getting all aggravated because a show you don't like is popular is childish and unbecoming. Or, in other words: gain some perspective and grow up. (And again, I want to emphasize that this isn't directed at you in particular, even though I used "you". It's just directed at your hypothetical argument.)
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2012-09-26, 00:54 | Link #418 | ||
On a mission
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IMO, catharsis can be a really good thing since there's so much in the world that can go wrong. Though some people take it way too far and their criticism becomes overblown. For example, they may say "the plot is retarded" but cannot come up with specific examples. I actually do believe a lot of the angrier posts have a lot of good points, but it can be drowned out by excessive focus on a few points. It seems like they watch with a clipboard checking off "Things not to do" and that just gives me a headache. It's also why I started not liking this thread's sister thread. Quote:
Though I would say I've never understood hating an anime for being popular, because it has nothing to do with the anime itself. Fan-hating is something that is almost never productive. The forgone conclusion thing is one thing to look out for. There's absolutely no point in evaluating something that you've already deemed as guilty. Personally, I have very little to say about series I really dislike. In fact, the silent treatment is actually my highest level of disdain.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2012-09-26 at 01:17. |
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2012-09-26, 01:24 | Link #419 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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You're right when you imply that bias can be subtle and insidious, and sometimes it can be hard to recognize. But I guess this is why it's good to have places like the Forums to give you some sort of gut check. It just depends on whether you're able to criticize your own self -- not always easy...
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2012-09-26, 01:56 | Link #420 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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There’s also this apparent problem within a big franchise that when you declare that you love what considered to be “the worst of the franchise”, the other so-called “loyal fans” will gang up on you and will try to bring you down. I experienced it myself sometime ago in a certain Macross thread. When I said that I like Macross 7 better than Macross Frontier, minutes later, 2-3 regulars from Macross-related threads gave me some “warm welcome” in the form of walls of text from each one of them which basically saying “You have bad taste, so GTFO of this thread!”..... Wow
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