2011-12-10, 17:24 | Link #18161 | ||||
'אין ייאוש בעולם כלל
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Age: 39
|
Quote:
Europe is Europe. The Eurozone is the Eurozone. The legislation that France/Germany are trying to impose is to solve difficulties within the Eurozone that would have negative effects on countries in Europe who aren't in the Eurozone. There is no reason why the UK (a country in Europe, but not the Eurozone) would NOT be against it. Quote:
Quote:
Certainly Europe is good for the UK, but more so than other non-Eurozone countries, we can do without it. Quote:
|
||||
2011-12-10, 18:19 | Link #18162 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
|
Quote:
As for Britain not being in the Schengen agreement, I don't really see the big deal. Britain doesn't share any land borders with Europe, so it makes no difference. If you go by plane you have to go through all those security checks anyway. And by boat, well, I doubt there's much you have to go through anything. The only country the UK borders(Ireland) it has a free movement treaty with. Because of this, Ireland also isn't in the Schengen agreement, I don't see how it would benefit Ireland to be in the Shengen agreement either. Neither of us have borders to remove controls from. So we have to go through all the work of harmonising these things and get no benefit from it. If tomorrow the English Channel and Irish Sea dried up, then I'd sign the Schengen agreement. Until then... |
|
2011-12-10, 18:42 | Link #18163 | ||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
|
Quote:
Quote:
The truth is that the 26 see Europe as a work in progress towards a common future. The UK doesn't have this goal at all, they only want a free market, and preferably a say in every single decision affecting it. I'm glad that this charade is finally over. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||||||
2011-12-10, 18:50 | Link #18164 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
|
Quote:
Quote:
My point was that contrary to their "free and open market" talk, the UK is most protective at heart, completely unwilling to hand over any kind of sovereignity, if you look at things closely. |
||
2011-12-10, 19:19 | Link #18165 |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
|
if you are talking about the market, most of Europe are protectionist at heart. France got its Agro subs, Germany, its Manu subs, and Greece got all these rules about who can and can't open certain business.
__________________
|
2011-12-10, 19:24 | Link #18166 | ||
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
|
Quote:
British people feel that without the rebate, they would be paying to keep an innefficient French farming sector in business. Because of the CAP France is only a slight net contributor to the EU, while Britain and Germany are the two highest contributors. In fact, France is the largest contributor to the UK rebate(while Germany is one of the smallest). Without the rebate, France would actually be a net recipient of EU funds. Given that France, Germany and Britain have similiar levels of wealth, this would be quite bizarre. The british government has gone on record as saying that it would be willing to renegotiate the rebate if the CAP is reformed. Given the nature of the CAP, I'm inclined to agree with the UK's position. Quote:
Even if the UK was signed up to the Schengen agreement, it would still be just as hard to for a european to cross into the UK, as the vast majority would be going through air or sea travel, which entails passport controls anyway. The Schengen treaty is great for European countries with large porous borders. The UK does not have any, so it's pointless. I would like to go on record as saying that I'm generally a fan of the EU, and I don't like British Euroskeptics. However, I think that Britain has not made entirely unjustified demands in the past. For one thing, they've never threatened to veto all EU integration, for instance in the case of the Euro, they didn't veto the whole euro plan altogether, they just secured for themselves an opt out. |
||
2011-12-10, 20:00 | Link #18168 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
|
Quote:
Quote:
So let's see if they carry out their threat to try to veto the 17's intended use of European institutions. I guess this will be the litmus test. If Britain crosses this rubicon too, it will probably become very ugly. |
||
2011-12-10, 20:12 | Link #18169 | ||
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Just as a comparison, Us citizens owe €35,156 each in foreign debt. However, I doubt it's going to a referendum. The Irish government pretty much has to what the EU says. We've given up our financial soveriegnty. Quote:
|
||
2011-12-10, 20:43 | Link #18170 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
|
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's not "in their right" to pull it. I'm saying that Europe cannot proceed unless members stop using it this way. And so, I'd love to see Britain pull out, but I think it's more likely that they'll stay and try to extort concessions instead. |
|
2011-12-10, 23:02 | Link #18171 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
|
Quote:
|
|
2011-12-10, 23:47 | Link #18172 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Personally, the CAP is one of the EU elements that I don't particularly like. I have a suspicion that while it helps farmers in Europe, it hurts poor farmers outside of europe by giving them competition against artificially cheapened european food. There is some indication of improvement, but I'm still against agricultural subsidies. |
|
2011-12-11, 00:34 | Link #18173 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
|
Worries grow over IMF loans to Europe
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7B822O20111210
__________________
|
2011-12-11, 00:50 | Link #18174 | ||
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2011-12-11, 05:05 | Link #18177 | |
* >/dev/null
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Surrey, UK
Age: 39
|
Quote:
On the issue of the UK blocking the 'progress of the EU', we're not the first country to cause problems [1, 2, 3], and I doubt we'll be the last. If Merkel/Sarkozy had given Cameron the reassurances he'd asked for, then he could've presented that amended treaty to the UK parliament without too much drama. Trying to force through a treaty change with nothing given in return would've resulted in a Tory back-bench rebellion, and a possible failure to pass it. That in turn would've caused the Euro more problems as the markets would see us as wasting time. So, in effect, he's done you guys a favour by not agreeing to an amended treaty. In any case this is a summary of what Cameron wanted. We already have a large number of EU citizens working here, so really, it is just about the 'annoying' border controls. The last time I was at Heathrow, EU & UK citizens shared the same passport line, so you're not being treated any differently to how UK citizens are. |
|
2011-12-11, 07:25 | Link #18178 | |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
|
Quote:
We get it already; you really, really don't like the Occupy Wall Street movement. No need to imply it every time you post something in this thread. |
|
2011-12-11, 08:13 | Link #18179 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
|
“Hero” Father Beats Down Daughter’s Bully
TL Courtesy of Sankaku Quote:
If the boy is bullying another boy, I would have closed an eye. In this case, if I were the boy's parents, I would have given him a couple of tight slaps; either for being a gawking bystander, or telling a lie to save his own skin - a stronger should not pick on a weaker gender for the sake of showing off. As for the teachers and principal? I would just ignore them because they are there to maintain their own rice bowls - I'll take it that my tax accidentally got flushed down the toilet bowl.
__________________
|
|
2011-12-11, 09:02 | Link #18180 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
|
Quote:
It shows that Britain is only interested in a market. The continental countries want to go beyond that. So, I hope that Britain will have the honesty to leave, and spare us the usual hypocrisy of offering advice and demanding influence on something they detest (the Euro). Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
Tags |
current affairs, discussion, international |
|
|