Dating

[Fome]

Originally Posted by Vestus

@Klashkari/Fome/Ledgem:

Well, I would like to have a serious relationship, that I cannot deny to myself. However, I'm real skeptical about relationships in general, because of previous relationship in which the girl left me for another guy.

(BTW I'm in college right now, I'm a 2nd year and she's a 1st year)

I had no interest in her before. This girl, however is all "touchy" when she's around me (and I enjoy it, alot). Not to be cheesy, but as for "falling for her" well that may be too late.

I have this thought that I may not have another chance like this ever, because of my reclusive ways. However, I can't see anything in myself that she would be attracted to.

And, if I go the direct route and clear it up, well I'll post the result up here. However, until then, I'll play along.

Way to go! Keep it up!

Lucky guy.

[Micaiah]

Originally Posted by Vestus

However, I can't see anything in myself that she would be attracted to.

This part, seems like a lack of self respect/worth, maybe you aren't able to see something, and she does, but you aren't going to be sure if you don't ask. My suggestion, like others have mentioned, could be going with the direct route and clearing things up. I have seen it worked with some, myself included(well, my case was not really similar, but it needed clearing up).

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by Fome

Way to go! Keep it up!

Lucky guy.

I do feel lucky. Well, if she is really into me.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Vestus

However, I'm real skeptical about relationships in general, because of previous relationship in which the girl left me for another guy.

I'm sorry that happened to you. It's a traumatic experience in a sense. Try to stay positive about it, though - not every girl will do that. You've been burned, so it's completely understandable and you shouldn't simply ignore or try to forget that experience. All the same, don't give up on relationships in general, especially if you desire one.

I had no interest in her before. This girl, however is all "touchy" when she's around me (and I enjoy it, alot). Not to be cheesy, but as for "falling for her" well that may be too late.

Ah, but isn't that how it always is? The irony of how I ended up with my current girlfriend is that, through a misunderstanding, she thought that I had an interest in her. She then developed an interest in me, and after it was pointed out to me that this girl was onto me, I developed feelings for her. That was two years ago, and we're still together and looking forward to the future.

The first girl I dated was a similar scenario. Friends pointed out that this girl was seeing me more often than a normal "I just want to be friends" girl would, and that she must have been into me. I'm a bit blind about these things, but after it was pointed out to me, I began to develop feelings for her as well. I hadn't really thought about it before that.

So now it's happened to you - nothing wrong there. The question is, what shall you do about it?

However, I can't see anything in myself that she would be attracted to.

Well then be glad she isn't you. Come on man, think positive! Here, I'll start you off. Since you're posting about this, you're clearly a sensitive individual. That's good relationship material. Since you're an anime fan, I'll also make the assumption that you're a thoughtful, open-minded individual. Further good for relationships and being good company in general. Lastly, since you're a nerd, you're good in bed (Glamour magazine even backs me on this one! - I read it today while getting a haircut ). That helps with everything, including maintaining a long-term relationship.

Not so hard to find the positives, is it?

And, if I go the direct route and clear it up, well I'll post the result up here. However, until then, I'll play along.

I'd be interested to know how it goes, so definitely post back. You don't necessarily need to go the direct route - you can try to play back and do ultra-romantic things for her. You might win her heart, and then perhaps she'll be asking her friends the same question that you posted to us. Just don't let it linger for too long. Even if you win her heart, you may still be expected to take the initiative. If she suddenly finds herself a boyfriend, I think you'll really feel hurt. It may rekindle feelings of your previous trauma as well.

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

If she suddenly finds herself a boyfriend, I think you'll really feel hurt. It may rekindle feelings of your previous trauma as well.

That's exactly what I'm scared shitless of.

[Fome]

I guess I'm the only one who thinks that affection, even if it's just play, is enough. Seriously, real relationships can be so icky at times IMO.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Vestus

@Klashkari/Fome/Ledgem:

Well, I would like to have a serious relationship, that I cannot deny to myself. However, I'm real skeptical about relationships in general, because of previous relationship in which the girl left me for another guy.

(BTW I'm in college right now, I'm a 2nd year and she's a 1st year)

I had no interest in her before. This girl, however is all "touchy" when she's around me (and I enjoy it, alot). Not to be cheesy, but as for "falling for her" well that may be too late.

I have this thought that I may not have another chance like this ever, because of my reclusive ways. However, I can't see anything in myself that she would be attracted to.

And, if I go the direct route and clear it up, well I'll post the result up here. However, until then, I'll play along.

If you're already at the stage where you're "falling for her", you're in dangerous territory. I'd say it's time to cut your losses and confront her about it ASAP, Klashi's way.

Sit her down with you for a serious discussion. Don't be mean, but you do have to talk to her in a firm tone so she gets that you're not kidding around anymore. Don't ask her what she's trying to do; tell her that all this horsing around has to stop, because it is simply not right. Don't ask her if she's being touchy because she really IS interested in you; tell her she has no right to be this touchy unless you and her are official.

Notice I keep saying "tell her" instead of "ask her"? That's because this is what you need to do to bring the balance of power to your side. A girl would not respect you if she can gain control over you too easily; this applies to all social relationships in general, not just male-female ones. Showing her that you are in control of yourself might very well impress her enough to seriously consider you, if she isn't already.

The way you're talking right now, it's more than likely that your model "girlfriend", whoever she is, sees you as being insecure; you've got to change that, hence why I'm telling you the stuff I'm telling you. Get yourself some confidence, and go for it; if she reacts positively to your sit-down talk, great. If she reacts negatively, then you know she isn't worth it.

Now go and do what you have to do, pal. Don't put it off too long; this kind of thing is like a drug, with all the same withdrawal effects.

(Ok, girls. You can start negging my rep for being such a Male Chauvinist Pig now. )

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Vestus

That's exactly what I'm scared shitless of.

If you are actually bearing such scar, I'm not exactly sure if you have the means to try to "win her" (romantic flags much?) as it wouldn't exactly work if she really playing with you.

It is really depending on "luck" (well... as you completely ignore her feelings/motive), you can indeed attract her if she was just playing "innocently", but it would be quite impossible if she was just having fun "maliciously" from the start.

It really depends of you now, but since you want to have a serious relationship and you are that affected by this "unknown factor", I believe you should gamble everything on frankness, so the direct confrontation. Much like ledgem said, try to think positive though, as you basically have the mindset to actually shape the relationship and so forth.

Think that in the current status, you won't exactly lose anything:
1) If she is actually falling for you, it is a complete win situation
2) If she was just playing, but enjoy it as well, you might actually build something.
3) If she was just having fun on her own, planning to ditch you out sooner or later, it would release you from a onimous painful galore, but it would definitely switch the "pretending date" into a play for you as well.

The third point can still hurt, but I believe that the long term is a "better" investisement for you, considering your posts recently.

Originally Posted by Fome

I guess I'm the only one who thinks that affection, even if it's just play, is enough. Seriously, real relationships can be so icky at times IMO.

That's true. However, relationships can be taken granted, depending of your own enjoyement.
As i can see, vestus is more fond of serious/real relationship.

As a matter of personal opinion, I can't exactly enjoy a relationship with only "affection", because I can't actually enjoy a relationship on a "superifical layer".
Don't get me wrong, i don't use it in a pejorative way: I aknowledge it has its own advantages and cons. But it isn't exactly a matter of "gain" and "loss", but rather a personal preference: I would prefer to be friend with someone acting like this, until both Me and this person actually want to go farther than simply "having fun around".

The reason behind this is that I would actually feel insecure and wondering what is the "point" of this, as if everything was a play, it would define it as a lie. And frankly, such things aren't exactly "positive" for some person (me included).

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Vestus

I do feel lucky. Well, if she is really into me.

exactally...if she is feeling the same way but by the wat you described her it seem that she is just playing about so you have 2 options.

either play along with her (score!) or tell her that you are serious (if you are that type of man).

chances are she may continue to play with you but that is something you must stop if you dont want to get yourself hurt by getting attached to her too much.

_____

[Samari]

Originally Posted by Fome

Actually, that sounds really awesome. It's like all the cuddliness without the responsibility. I disagree with these suggestions. I think it'll be fine, as long as you play the role of the "indifferent loner." She pretend dates you, so you pretend to be oblivious to the romantic inferences. Lol, now THAT would make your life like an anime.

The key is not to get lulled into REALLY wanting to pursue a relationship. If you like her, don't ruin it by trying to get more than you have now. IMO, it's very possible that, as soon as you confront her about it, she will feel uncomfortable and stop this fun stuff. I think the people here are being too serious about it. While you're young, just have a good time.

Well I agree with what you said about not getting into the notion of "really wanting to be in a relationship". Like you mentioned, if you confront a female about it, they might feel a little uncomfortable maybe. At the same time, it really sucks, because what if you do want to be in a relationship? Can't really change the way you feel, you know?

[Shiemi]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

If you're already at the stage where you're "falling for her", you're in dangerous territory. I'd say it's time to cut your losses and confront her about it ASAP, Klashi's way.

Sit her down with you for a serious discussion. Don't be mean, but you do have to talk to her in a firm tone so she gets that you're not kidding around anymore. Don't ask her what she's trying to do; tell her that all this horsing around has to stop, because it is simply not right. Don't ask her if she's being touchy because she really IS interested in you; tell her she has no right to be this touchy unless you and her are official.

Notice I keep saying "tell her" instead of "ask her"? That's because this is what you need to do to bring the balance of power to your side. A girl would not respect you if she can gain control over you too easily; this applies to all social relationships in general, not just male-female ones. Showing her that you are in control of yourself might very well impress her enough to seriously consider you, if she isn't already.

The way you're talking right now, it's more than likely that your model "girlfriend", whoever she is, sees you as being insecure; you've got to change that, hence why I'm telling you the stuff I'm telling you. Get yourself some confidence, and go for it; if she reacts positively to your sit-down talk, great. If she reacts negatively, then you know she isn't worth it.

Now go and do what you have to do, pal. Don't put it off too long; this kind of thing is like a drug, with all the same withdrawal effects.

(Ok, girls. You can start negging my rep for being such a Male Chauvinist Pig now. )

While brain-wise, men prefer being direct and definitely tend to get annoyed when females are not direct, and only seem to be into indirectness and waiting for men to *get* them; females are the opposite. From a female PoV, I think that if she is doing the pretend dating thing because she is into him, if he suddenly confronts her in the way you recommend, she might freak out and take it the wrong way and feel like she is being pushed away because he hates her or something. Women tend to assume a lot and can interpret many things all wrong.

Ex. 1. Saying he is tired tonight = he doesn't want her.
2. He forgot to call her or text her when he got home safely = He is taking the relationship for granted and doesn't care about her worries.
3. He tells her : "Baby, I want us to have a future together." = She thinks: "He is going to propose." (This actually happened to my brother.)
4. He was supposed to call her at noon, but he was in a meeting at work. = He is is with another chick.
5. He doesn't answer the phone. = He is with another chick.


Not to scare guys, but females tend to be like this. (I'm feeling old now.)

Perhaps the recommendation might work if he uses a soft/gentle tone so it's not like I think it's entirely wrong to use the tactic. Just that women tend to be sensitive sometimes and if he catches her in a bad hormonal stage like PMS... Let's just say that this happens too and sometimes women can even seem bipolar to men due to what hormones do to us.

Now, if he is too direct in just telling her to stop, chances are that just not her, but any woman would react negatively so no woman would be worth it.

On another, note, frankly, if she is just playing and fooling around then she doesn't sound like a very nice girl or a mature one in that aspect. She should know she can hurt a guy by doing that.

[HASHIRIYA]

ok I'll think I'll post something useful now
my advice to you... go read 'Magic Bullets' by Savoy
i thought it was bs at first if anything use it as a guide or an idea not as an instruction manual to girls.

it comes with how to use this book ect
and goes into pretty good detail about female psychology
overview
transitioning
attraction
comfort
seduction
relation ships
social circle
day game
even strip clubs....
non verbal communication and even goes into the phone game as mentioned above
and the mind games and if i remember right it covered a bit about pretend dating

after reading this i can't really say it made be a smooth talker, more able to be more comfortable around the ladies and a less likely to annoy them.
i even passed this publication on to female companions to read like my friend who studying psychology and even my current gf. and they even said how well written it is.

current relationship atm is a mind game in it self, i work 8 hour days mon-fri and she works shift work at night any thing like 8-14 hr shifts in the E.D. most of time i see her shes sleeping and sometimes when something has upset her (n you weren't around to know) and yet she won't tell you what it is and it becomes hard as trying get it out of her so that you can even under stand what she going on, about half the time this happens i just give up trying and just go cuddle with her. if anything the book sorta taught me to balance my hobbies out (ie my money pit car) or sharing them, as she has more of an idea of what I'm doing and doesn't draw conclusions that I'm rooting behind her back, sorta different the other way around.

well i think of gone off the rails on your topic but yea if you (Vestus) wanna know where you find the book or pdf send me a pm, its not a bad read for us heterosexuals.

[Takeru]

I thought it was time to talk about this for you guys wondering what kind of love you're having. (aah, I love my psychology class...)

Sternberg's Theory of Love:

image source: wikipedia



as for myself....I'm not in a relationship...but I would die to be (or would that sort of just negate the entire thing? )

[Navel]

Takeru, great image ! First time I see it, and... that's a great way to clasify the types of feelings people associate with "love" ! You've got sexual attraction in the bottom-left corner, empathy/emotional bonds in the top corner (non sexual - imagine that you care for your pet, but that doesn't mean you want to make love to it; a little bit of a gross image, I know, but it does its job at sending the message) and the choice of being by someone's side in the bottom-right (doesn't involve neither sexual desire, nor empathy; like how the members of a cycling team support each other). The description on that wikipedia page makes it more clear.

I usually don't get involved in these discussions, but today I saw Vestus's message and all the advices that followed, and some of those were horribly wrong, although they were well intended. I had to say something. Assuming you're not making this up, because some things don't add up (or maybe you've omitted some details you didn't think were important).

Disclaimer required first: I'm a guy ! ^^

Every girl that read the "confront her now, tell her how you feel and ask her to spill out the beans" advice could tell you right now what the outcome will be: the play ends, the crowd gets up and goes to the exit, lights are turned off, the scene is empty, silence, you can hear the wind blowing... you got the picture. Ahem.

You can find the answer to that question, but not through open confrontation. Doesn't work.

This is what I wanted to say. What follows next is a bonus... ^^

Teasing: I'm quite sure I know the reason she's playing that "game" as you call it. I'm not telling, though ! ^^

Hahaha... Ok, I'm doing that for a reason: in your current state of mind (hope, hope, hope... and she's my only chance!), you're going to twist it wrong, and you're going to do what's commonly called "shoot yourself in the foot".

Even in the worst scenario, you have more going for you than you're realizing. For instance, and I'm not elaborating on this, girls that had no interest in you before, they have it now. This is quite an universal mechanism, happens with guys too: somehow, the "loss" of the girl you didn't care for before, stirs something inside.

What I am going to say is not a love advice. It's an advice for life. Applies to more than meeting girls. Meet people, enlarge your circle of friends. Get more comfortable with speaking to others. Networking, schmoozing, whatever you want to call it. Have fun. Have fun together, have fun by yourself.

Finally, I'm going to recommend what Hashiriya said in his last post. He mentioned a book published by a group of "players". Players as in good at handling women. I don't know how good they really are, but I did read parts of that book. I eat books at breakfast, lunch and dinner. ^^ I may have my doubts about the theory, but every little detail they got about how a woman behaves is spot on. And it's probably that way because they indeed have done what they actually claim: make hypothesis and then test them in the real world, on real people, trash what doesn't work, improve on what does. No matter how beautiful an idea or hypothesis might seem like, it's worth nothing if it doesn't stand the test of reality. And imagining and troubling over things in one's mind is not a reality test. Have a read, it's going to be revealing. Advice valid for girls, too.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Navel

Every girl that read the "confront her now, tell her how you feel and ask her to spill out the beans" advice could tell you right now what the outcome will be: the play ends, the crowd gets up and goes to the exit, lights are turned off, the scene is empty, silence, you can hear the wind blowing... you got the picture. Ahem.

I think that all of your post is excellent, but this part could have used a bit extra. I think we all know it, but it's worth mentioning: girls aren't animals. There is no universal process for this. It's true that many girls want to be romanced - being up-front and direct is a turn-off and won't get you anywhere. However, there are also plenty of girls who don't enjoy mind games, and prefer someone who will be direct and take the initiative. For reference, I have met girls like this, and I belive my girlfriend is like this. The people I am thinking of do not fit the party girl/super social/sorority/glamour-type girls, who would, according to stereotype, probably prefer the games.

From what psychology I do know, girls do tend towards indirect communication (also called "high context communication" - includes things like subtle hinting and saying one thing that means something else), whereas guys go for direct communication. I don't know that I'd worry too much over that, though.

[Vestus]

Well, I wasn't able to see her since my last post because I've been studying for finals. Also, maybe I was being a coward.

Anyway, a friend of mine who shares the same circle of friends who the girl in question is in confronted me. He was yelling at me for not asking her out yet. He said that it's so obvious and that I'm not taking advantage of it. According to him, there are several guys chasing her. Which, I don't doubt.

So my question now is:
Is it okay to "confront" her over phone, text message, instant messenger, email, facebook, etc? I might not be able to due to my hectic schedule.

[ChibiMenos]

Originally Posted by Vestus

So my question now is:
Is it okay to "confront" her over phone, text message, instant messenger, email, facebook, etc? I might not be able to due to my hectic schedule.

If by "confront" you mean ask her out (which is what I recommend--if it doesn't work out, you'll have your answer, and if it does, you'll be happy), I would say that on the phone or in person is the way to go. Anything else is not immediate, could easily be ignored, and would probably have you biting your fingernails waiting for a response. (And when I say phone, I mean actually talking to her--don't ask her answering machine out!)

If on the other hand, you plan to simply ask her what she thinks she's doing, then I would say try emailing her, or getting a mutual friend to give her a note. Something you can spend a lot of time on, making sure you don't come across as too needy or confrontational. I know many guys aren't as good at expressing themselves through writing as through speaking, so putting a bit of thought into it is really important so that she does not misunderstand you. Don't make it too complicated, or too abrupt, and don't outright demand a response... just let her know you're a little confused.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Vestus

Well, I wasn't able to see her since my last post because I've been studying for finals. Also, maybe I was being a coward.

Anyway, a friend of mine who shares the same circle of friends who the girl in question is in confronted me. He was yelling at me for not asking her out yet. He said that it's so obvious and that I'm not taking advantage of it. According to him, there are several guys chasing her. Which, I don't doubt.

So my question now is:
Is it okay to "confront" her over phone, text message, instant messenger, email, facebook, etc? I might not be able to due to my hectic schedule.

Well.....thaaaaat's interesting.

Well first off, keep your mind on the finals first. Far as I'm concerned, those are more important than any possibility.

Once you've got them out of the way, then you can decide what to do next. At this point, I'm not sure what I can tell you....but if I were you, I'll just meet up with your lady friend as usual, and at an appropriate moment, I'll make a joke about the incident with her friend. Then, I'll watch how she reacts...and act according to my gut feeling.

That's all I can say, for now.

[bettyrawr]

Um.. I'm sure the other guys are either in the same situation( which is why they haven't asked her out) or she's rejected them ^^

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by bettyrawr

Um.. I'm sure the other guys are either in the same situation( which is why they haven't asked her out) or she's rejected them ^^

I'm not sure if you read my original post, but that would mean she's doing the whole "pretend dating" trick/game/etc. on all the other guys. If thats true, well thats a MAJOR turn-off for me.