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hodil · 2009-07-16, 07:03

Rose theory

And i thought she would be used for dinner =(

Quote:

Also, looking near the ending with people going through the chessboard - I didn't see Rudolf, Rosa and Natsuhi in that sequence.

Natsuhi is there. Towards the end. Rosa is missing, Rudolf is missing.

Isn't it strange? I do remember... in the higurashi PS 2 opening for the answer arc.... all the higurashi characters were shown at one point (including tomitake, irie) ... ahem ... except Takano.

leika · 2009-07-16, 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodil

Rose theory

And i thought she would be used for dinner =(

Natsuhi is there. Towards the end. Rosa is missing, Rudolf is missing.

Isn't it strange? I do remember... in the higurashi PS 2 opening for the answer arc.... all the higurashi characters were shown at one point (including tomitake, irie) ... ahem ... except Takano.

I know this sounds very weird... but:

Spoiler for weird thoughts:

Marion · 2009-07-16, 08:26

Even though Rosa obviously likes having romantic three-way getaways with some boyfriends, I highly doubt she would ever do something like that with her brother XD Same as Rudolf.

Oekitarts · 2009-07-16, 08:28

INCEST IS WINCE-*gets shot*

...but seriously. We still didn't know why Rudolf went all "hai gaiz gess wut im gonna dieee". Maybe we finally get to find out here. I dunno why Rosa is mysterious in Ep 1 though.

Marion · 2009-07-16, 08:31

Ryukushi might be tricking us with the Natsuhi undertones to make us believe it's the answer arc for EP 1 though.

leika · 2009-07-16, 08:49

^ryukishi:
could be. but maybe Natsuhi is distinguished because she died as the last in EP1. xD

----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

She's also not holding her pipe.

Also, looking near the ending with people going through the chessboard - I didn't see Rudolf, Rosa and Natsuhi in that sequence.

Spoiler for EP 5 sequence:

oh I don't think that it's the new girl.

look at the red and the white stripes in the middle of the picture. the new girl has those in her hair accessories.

Marion · 2009-07-16, 09:03

If you look at the sprite though from the preview pictures, you see that the shadow has exactly the same side.

Rena Ryuuguu · 2009-07-16, 09:07

Spoiler for theory details includes spoiler from EP 1- 5:

I always try to think at both sites, human and magic. and I think there is a parallel world. and the point of them is Rokkenjima, that way both exists. I also think that Natsuhi is the culprit or has something to do with the crime in EP 1 have many reasons why I think that.

*Natsuhi - killed that 6 at the first twilight in EP 1

now, why do I think that? if you know the new OP from EP 5 then you should know that scene with Natsuhi .
that looks like from Natsuhi's view, everyone is mocking her. and the faces of her relates are hidden with the dark.
then the new girl Asumu or Rikatrice? appears saying "you are the culprit" ( but this scene can mean more or just nothing we won't know it before the game is out )

*Natsuhi killed that 6 , she used the legend of the hidden gold and Beatrice as reason to make it look like all is the golden Witch Beatrice's doing.
she knew about the hidden gold that Krauss was hiding already. that's why she also got an hate toward her husband. then in the night of the first twilight, she rushed inside the conservation between the others, then a fight occurred and Natsuhi probably lost control and killed them. afterward she was probably in kinda trance, and decided completely to make it look like Beatrice's doing. maybe Gohda or even Krauss rushed in after she killed them and so Krauss or Gohda helped or was ( forced? ) to carry the corpses to the storehouse on the way to there Natsuhi was seen by Shannon which was on the way to the guest house? and so Natsuhi who was still ( in demon state ) killed Shannon too, which would explain only her half face smashed. Gohda saw it too and lost control and wanted to tell the truth and escape ( we know Gohda and his panic especial in EP 2) Natsuhi killed Gohda too so she killed Shannon and Gohda instead of her actually next planed Targets "Eva and Hideyoshi!!!!"
let's just say Natsuhi wasn't the usual but like a as to say in in Hideyoshi's words "Demon" then I refer this site to the stakes of purgatory, which stands for sins..
that way you even could explain how the 7stakes from the magic site could kill them . if Natsuhi used all that sins which the stakes symbolize,. then you could even say in red

"The First six, Rosa, Krauss, Shannon, Gohda , Rudolph and Kirie were killed by the Seven Stakes at the first Twilight!"

so let's think Natsuhi used all sins to kill them all. afterward she used her blood smeared hands to make it look like someone was trying to get inside her room. that's how the blood came to her door.. then she washed her hands and changed clothes and stuff and went back to sleep.

*next day she acted or might didn't even remember anything. and so she really was shocked about the blood. we all know how fast Natsuhi get's in Rage

Spoiler for EP 4:

kaitwospirit · 2009-07-16, 09:40

Looking over the HQ version of the trailer, the dark outline we're seeing at around :39...

Spoiler for Episode 4:

leika · 2009-07-16, 10:05

while watching the OP again, I found 2 sequences which were ominous to me:

Spoiler for size ep5:

Marion · 2009-07-16, 10:09

The first image is the kakera field, so maybe he and Bern end up having a talk or something.

And Kinzo was the primary antagonist in the last game, so maybe that's why.

leika · 2009-07-16, 10:11

Oh okay ^^ thanks

Keriaku · 2009-07-16, 10:36

I'm not 100% sure, but isn't it the new girl that shows up behind Battler in that scene?

Marion · 2009-07-16, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keriaku

I'm not 100% sure, but isn't it the new girl that shows up behind Battler in that scene?

No it's Bernkastel. Look at it again you'll see Bern's hair shape. If you watch the OP you'll also see Bern flying into the scene before Battler comes.

EmilioXChaltier · 2009-07-16, 12:20

Because it was discussed earlier in this topic, I wish to add my opinion about the number of people on the island, because it can be debated in all episodes.
I don't know if someone has already thought of this, sorry if I'm repeating what someone else said. (I'll introduce myself later today)

Spoiler for Theory about the number of people on the island:

k//eternal · 2009-07-16, 13:42

Yeah, I had a theory about people traveling back and forth between Kuwadorian's harbor and the mansion, but it's probably not a functional explanation for the final question in the EP4 tea.

Renall · 2009-07-16, 13:46

I want to discuss the 4th, because I think it's much more important a day than the 5th, and that the biggest narrative misleading we've seen in ep1-4 is to marginalize the importance of the first day of the conference and instead focus on the murders on the 5th.

The critical events that determine who is killed when and by whom on the 5th must, by necessity, occur on the 4th. If they happened earlier, they wouldn't lead to different outcomes. If they happened later, people wouldn't be turning up dead first thing in the morning. So the question is, what happens on the 4th? And what's different? Whose actions determine what happens?

Some examples:

ep1 - Nanjo is hanging out in the parlor, the children go to the beach for lunch, and the adults argue over the inheritance in the parlor. Kanon is unaccounted-for.

ep2 - Maria has a fight with Rosa and never leaves the rose garden. Kanon talks to her there (he wasn't seen after the first rose garden thing until 6pm in ep1). The cousins stay in the mansion and do not go to the beach, so the adults can't argue. "Beatrice" shows up, Kyrie says she isn't feeling well and wants to rest. Rosa remembers Maria is in the garden just as the rain starts and meets "Beatrice." Battler takes a nap in the parlor, causing everyone else to leave the parlor (Kyrie/Rudolf go to Eva/Hideyoshi's room to talk, etc.). Nanjo has been Kinzo's chess opponent "since before evening," meaning he's unaccounted-for.

ep3 - I'm not entirely sure what happens here.

ep4 - Obviously some very bad shit goes down on the 4th in this episode.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's what Maria and Battler do that has the biggest influence on things. But it might also be what the adults talk about and whether they're able to. Obviously the presence of "Beatrice" in ep2 screws things up, but if we accept that "Beatrice" is one of the 18, then it's possible that what the characters did on the 4th influenced her ability to appear. For example, if she's Shannon, she didn't have to go to the beach on the 4th in ep2, which might have allowed her to put a plan in motion that didn't previously happen. Yet there are other things that don't seem influenced by that. Like why was Nanjo in Kinzo's room (or claims he was) in ep2? It doesn't seem like anything anyone did influenced that.

unconfirmed · 2009-07-16, 17:20

Don't you guys find it weird...

Spoiler for proof that blondes are dumb:

OBrasilo · 2009-07-16, 18:49

I just stumbled upon this YouTube video, which seems to have even more screen-shots of Episode 5. Could someone (maybe chronotrig?) translate them to English, so that we can see, if they contain any more clues on what goes on there?

k//eternal · 2009-07-16, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by unconfirmed

Don't you guys find it weird...

No. It's always been stated that Beato loves random chance.

Well, maybe it's a bit weird on Lambda's part, though.

2009-07-16, 09:07	Link #608
Rena Ryuuguu Hinamizawas Cleaver Girl Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hinamizawa	Spoiler for theory details includes spoiler from EP 1- 5: I always try to think at both sites, human and magic. and I think there is a parallel world. and the point of them is Rokkenjima, that way both exists. I also think that Natsuhi is the culprit or has something to do with the crime in EP 1 have many reasons why I think that. Natsuhi - killed that 6 at the first twilight in EP 1 now, why do I think that? if you know the new OP from EP 5 then you should know that scene with Natsuhi . that looks like from Natsuhi's view, everyone is mocking her. and the faces of her relates are hidden with the dark. then the new girl Asumu or Rikatrice? appears saying "you are the culprit" ( but this scene can mean more or just nothing we won't know it before the game is out ) Natsuhi killed that 6 , she used the legend of the hidden gold and Beatrice as reason to make it look like all is the golden Witch Beatrice's doing. she knew about the hidden gold that Krauss was hiding already. that's why she also got an hate toward her husband. then in the night of the first twilight, she rushed inside the conservation between the others, then a fight occurred and Natsuhi probably lost control and killed them. afterward she was probably in kinda trance, and decided completely to make it look like Beatrice's doing. maybe Gohda or even Krauss rushed in after she killed them and so Krauss or Gohda helped or was ( forced? ) to carry the corpses to the storehouse on the way to there Natsuhi was seen by Shannon which was on the way to the guest house? and so Natsuhi who was still ( in demon state ) killed Shannon too, which would explain only her half face smashed. Gohda saw it too and lost control and wanted to tell the truth and escape ( we know Gohda and his panic especial in EP 2) Natsuhi killed Gohda too so she killed Shannon and Gohda instead of her actually next planed Targets "Eva and Hideyoshi!!!!" let's just say Natsuhi wasn't the usual but like a as to say in in Hideyoshi's words "Demon" then I refer this site to the stakes of purgatory, which stands for sins.. that way you even could explain how the 7stakes from the magic site could kill them . if Natsuhi used all that sins which the stakes symbolize,. then you could even say in red "The First six, Rosa, Krauss, Shannon, Gohda , Rudolph and Kirie were killed by the Seven Stakes at the first Twilight!" so let's think Natsuhi used all sins to kill them all. afterward she used her blood smeared hands to make it look like someone was trying to get inside her room. that's how the blood came to her door.. then she washed her hands and changed clothes and stuff and went back to sleep. next day she acted or might didn't even remember anything. and so she really was shocked about the blood. we all know how fast Natsuhi get's in Rage Spoiler* for EP 4: also for Kinzo. Kinzo knew about what happened too, but we all know the real Kinzo is death from the start , so this man Gold Smith. knew that Natsuhi killed them , and so he praised Natsuhi. because she was able to finish the rest of the for "false Kinzo" "Ushiromiya Family" __________________ hauuu kaii omochikaeri<3 Keiichi-kun?doushite uso... tsuku no kana? doushite uso..tsuku no kana?USODA!USODA!!USODA!!! Last edited by Rena Ryuuguu; 2009-07-16 at 13:50.

2009-07-16, 09:40	Link #609
kaitwospirit Member Join Date: Jun 2009	Looking over the HQ version of the trailer, the dark outline we're seeing at around :39... Spoiler for Episode 4: Isn't that Siesta 556?

2009-07-16, 10:05	Link #610
leika SerasVictoria287 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany, Viersen Age: 30	while watching the OP again, I found 2 sequences which were ominous to me: Spoiler for size ep5: Why is Bernkastel behind Battler's forehead? ô_o Why is Kinzo behind Battler? have no idea...

2009-07-16, 10:36	Link #613
Keriaku Thought Being Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada	I'm not 100% sure, but isn't it the new girl that shows up behind Battler in that scene? __________________ Meta-World Theory: Reality-Fantasy Perspective [*] Beatrice's Dead-End Fate A Lovingly Crafted Tale [<3] Meta World Theory [Foundation] Aspects of Umineko

2009-07-16, 12:20	Link #615
EmilioXChaltier Truth seeker Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Somewhere in France	Because it was discussed earlier in this topic, I wish to add my opinion about the number of people on the island, because it can be debated in all episodes. I don't know if someone has already thought of this, sorry if I'm repeating what someone else said. (I'll introduce myself later today) Spoiler for Theory about the number of people on the island: I think that there isn't always no more than 17 persons on the island. In my opinion, the Red Truth for this information is used when the Witch can benefit from it. So when she didn't say it, this truth can change. Nothing can guarantee that the number of people is no more than 17. It's like the timing trick for Nanjo's murder in EP3. Therefore, there are other people near the island, maybe the culprit team (some mercenaries or something else ?) is hiding on a boat localised on the port of Kuwadorian. It is possible if we suppose that 'being in the island' means 'to have the body connected to the land by having two feets on the ground of the island'.

2009-07-16, 08:26	Link #603
Marion The Great Dine Join Date: Feb 2009	Even though Rosa obviously likes having romantic three-way getaways with some boyfriends, I highly doubt she would ever do something like that with her brother XD Same as Rudolf.

2009-07-16, 08:28	Link #604
Oekitarts Oppai Sommelier Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Manila Age: 33	INCEST IS WINCE-gets shot ...but seriously. We still didn't know why Rudolf went all "hai gaiz gess wut im gonna dieee". Maybe we finally get to find out here. I dunno why Rosa is mysterious in Ep 1 though.

2009-07-16, 08:31	Link #605
Marion The Great Dine Join Date: Feb 2009	Ryukushi might be tricking us with the Natsuhi undertones to make us believe it's the answer arc for EP 1 though.

2009-07-16, 09:03	Link #607
Marion The Great Dine Join Date: Feb 2009	If you look at the sprite though from the preview pictures, you see that the shadow has exactly the same side.

2009-07-16, 10:09	Link #611
Marion The Great Dine Join Date: Feb 2009	The first image is the kakera field, so maybe he and Bern end up having a talk or something. And Kinzo was the primary antagonist in the last game, so maybe that's why.

2009-07-16, 10:11	Link #612
leika SerasVictoria287 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany, Viersen Age: 30	Oh okay ^^ thanks

2009-07-16, 13:42	Link #616
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	Yeah, I had a theory about people traveling back and forth between Kuwadorian's harbor and the mansion, but it's probably not a functional explanation for the final question in the EP4 tea.

2009-07-16, 13:46	Link #617
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	I want to discuss the 4th, because I think it's much more important a day than the 5th, and that the biggest narrative misleading we've seen in ep1-4 is to marginalize the importance of the first day of the conference and instead focus on the murders on the 5th. The critical events that determine who is killed when and by whom on the 5th must, by necessity, occur on the 4th. If they happened earlier, they wouldn't lead to different outcomes. If they happened later, people wouldn't be turning up dead first thing in the morning. So the question is, what happens on the 4th? And what's different? Whose actions determine what happens? Some examples: ep1 - Nanjo is hanging out in the parlor, the children go to the beach for lunch, and the adults argue over the inheritance in the parlor. Kanon is unaccounted-for. ep2 - Maria has a fight with Rosa and never leaves the rose garden. Kanon talks to her there (he wasn't seen after the first rose garden thing until 6pm in ep1). The cousins stay in the mansion and do not go to the beach, so the adults can't argue. "Beatrice" shows up, Kyrie says she isn't feeling well and wants to rest. Rosa remembers Maria is in the garden just as the rain starts and meets "Beatrice." Battler takes a nap in the parlor, causing everyone else to leave the parlor (Kyrie/Rudolf go to Eva/Hideyoshi's room to talk, etc.). Nanjo has been Kinzo's chess opponent "since before evening," meaning he's unaccounted-for. ep3 - I'm not entirely sure what happens here. ep4 - Obviously some very bad shit goes down on the 4th in this episode. If I had to guess, I'd say it's what Maria and Battler do that has the biggest influence on things. But it might also be what the adults talk about and whether they're able to. Obviously the presence of "Beatrice" in ep2 screws things up, but if we accept that "Beatrice" is one of the 18, then it's possible that what the characters did on the 4th influenced her ability to appear. For example, if she's Shannon, she didn't have to go to the beach on the 4th in ep2, which might have allowed her to put a plan in motion that didn't previously happen. Yet there are other things that don't seem influenced by that. Like why was Nanjo in Kinzo's room (or claims he was) in ep2? It doesn't seem like anything anyone did influenced that.

2009-07-16, 17:20	Link #618
unconfirmed Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Gensokyo	Don't you guys find it weird... Spoiler for proof that blondes are dumb: I mean suppose that Beato never started using red. That would mean that there would no way for Battler to deny the existence of witches and magic if the Devil's Proof is applied. However, this would also mean that there would no way for Beato to deny the existence of conclusive evidence X to prove that witches do NOT exist. By this we can conclude that without using red, Battler would definitely have a 0% chance of winning while with the red, he would have +X% of winning. I imagine Beato's winning condition to be one where she can break out of this trap and go (take a nap/drink tea/play witches with Maria) or something. So really, if she never said anything in red, her chances of hitting it off with Battler becomes infinite as she has unlimited time. With Battler's (who's very smrt) help, her chances of overcoming Lambda + Bern's trap becomes +X%. Still she persisted on using red, thereby making Battler her enemy and effectively decreasing the odds of her winning to 0% as long as Battler doesn't give in (impossible as he is so manly). Furthermore, without red, it would end up being a stalemate. But isn't that what Lambdadelta wanted? If she was smart and stopped Beato from using the red then it would be a easy win against Bern. If Beato was smart enough to realize that this was a golden opportunity for her, she clearly would've tricked Lambda into agreeing. But alas, neither of these dumb witches realized that they've just passed up a win-win situation. Now, all Bern has to do is wait for confetti to fly from the ceilings and a "congratulations" message.

2009-07-16, 18:49	Link #619
OBrasilo Uyimbube! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Clannad City, Clannad Prefecture, Clannad Japan. Age: 37	I just stumbled upon this YouTube video, which seems to have even more screen-shots of Episode 5. Could someone (maybe chronotrig?) translate them to English, so that we can see, if they contain any more clues on what goes on there? __________________