2010-06-17, 17:20 | Link #11241 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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On a serious note, the thing that bothers me is how in Episode 2, Battler's judgment is messed up because of alcohol. What's preventing someone like Gohda (seeing as he prepares the meals) or Rosa (she has some sort of mystery depressant) from administering some sort of drug to Battler? That would seriously mess up his perception of the events. Granted, I don't think Ryukishi would screw with us that way, but it's a thought... is there even an objective narrator at all? Well, I guess not having a reliable narrator (for Episodes 1-4, I mean) would defeat the purpose of playing the game at all. |
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2010-06-17, 17:56 | Link #11242 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Yeah okay I imagine the scene.
Battler gets so drunk that he falls asleep without even realizing it. an evildoer takes this chance to do something terrible to Battler. Battler wakes up, finds himself in front of a mirror and doesn't recognize himself He screams: "You are the witch Beatrice! Damn you!" Someone in the shadows rolls on the floor laughing seeing Battler in a dress and a blonde wig talking to his own reflected image without realizing it.
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2010-06-17, 18:11 | Link #11243 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Notice that the text cutely mentions no mirrors other than the one in the shrine and the one in Natsuhi's dresser, even though sometimes, looking into a mirror and quipping something on the subject of seeing yourself would be quite a natural thing to do.
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2010-06-17, 20:48 | Link #11244 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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And then slams his own head into the table. (headdesk, anyone?) Anyway, I guess there cannot be instances of drunkenness outside of the ones we are familiar with, because there was no foreshadowing as to Gohda poisoning the food. Rosa's relaxants, however, could still be a possibility; a really strong one could even cause wooziness. Whether or not it is legal for someone like to Rosa to possess a drug as strong as marijuana, novocaine, or morphine is a different story but I'm no doctor. |
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2010-06-17, 22:20 | Link #11245 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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There is something I've been wondering about
Battler: Then, just like the heredity of Kinzo's name, there is a possibility that Kanon's name was inherited by someone. You could suppose that Kanon-kun succeeded that name, and that this person attacked them!! The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself! A different person cannot claim his name! Is inheriting Kanon's name after death the same as claiming it? If not doesn't Battler's theory still live?
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2010-06-17, 23:00 | Link #11246 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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But this is really not that big of a point since; The three in the servant's room.. might of.. I don't know.... LIED! |
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2010-06-18, 00:42 | Link #11247 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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To do what? The only consequence i can think of is getting George. Wolf and sheep puzzle? 3 sheeps/wolves + George sheep/wolf vs 3 sheeps/wolves.
And Nanjo and Kumasawa's corpses dissappared, are they also part of the plan and they didnt die there? I want to think that they found some kind of evidence left by Kanon to suspect Rosa and coz of that Shannon might have came up with this lies to get George away from Rosa, however im not sure about Kumasawa and Nanjo. They just didnt want to play along? Or were they actually attacked there? Or was it a plan to get Nanjo and Kumasawa away for some reason? |
2010-06-18, 00:43 | Link #11248 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-06-18, 01:03 | Link #11249 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-06-18, 01:40 | Link #11250 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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"Present or listening" is interesting in this particular area of the mansion. There has to be a dumbwaiter of some kind, otherwise, feeding Kinzo in his study every day or Beatrice in the VIP room is very hard. (No elevator, and they move wheeled serving carts there!) There is apparently some legit way to listen in on the conversations in the dining hall without being caught too, because Kanon supposedly "reports to Kinzo" on doing that in Ep1.
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2010-06-18, 02:02 | Link #11251 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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So, it's still the work of The Betrayer, right? Quote:
Like this: http://www.mcqueenonline.com/m2.jpg In either case the Winchesters seem to me to be less of his western interest and more of a Western (as in Spaghetti Western) interest. Maybe Kinzo was into cowboys and the Wild, Wild West. Someone should check his VHS collection. 8) In fact, I was guessing that if someone made an Umineko mod for Red Dead Redemption... with Natsuhi and Krauss as the rough but genuinely nice ranch owner... and Battler as the cowboy... (there's that cowboy image again) it would fit right in. |
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2010-06-18, 02:17 | Link #11252 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Sorry for the double post, but this is a separate issue. We sorta know a bit more about how the Betrayer works, but as I was talking to a friend about the 10th Twilight Bomber, he said, "So why doesn't someone just barge into the dining room and shoot everyone up, since there's no consequences anyways?"
"Like in EP4." We both said. "And then they went to Kuwadorian immediately afterwards, as if they were escaping the blast radius/geological event." And of course, who survived in EP4? Krauss. 8) Spoiler for Longish EP4 stuff:
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2010-06-18, 03:29 | Link #11253 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Winchesters are powerful guns; they don't create very clean-looking bullet wounds, especially when they've been sawed short. Take Shannon in Ep2, for example. Although she was clearly shot with a gun, the entry wound is small, only a little larger than the stake implanted in it. If she had been shot with the Winchester... she probably wouldn't have much of a face left. Furthermore, the Winchesters are somewhat difficult weapons to conceal, even taking into account their compact size. A revolver or pistol, however, could easily be hidden under someone's suit jacket or, say, lab coat. For the murders so far to make sense, someone has to be carrying a gun that's as yet unaccounted for. |
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2010-06-18, 04:01 | Link #11254 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Notice the lack of expansion and the small entry and exit holes. According to my forensic pathology textbook, exit wounds are normally bigger in cases where a bullet penetrates an organ that is gel-like or liquid (like the brain) because in this case, the hydrostatic pressure wave expands in a cone, but we somehow never see the exit wounds at all. It is not very likely that Kinzo would have hollowpoints, which would actually tear people's heads off and produce all kinds of damage on exit, and normal jacketed bullets of this type seem to have the effect of a long range 2-3cm thick needle. Just the right size to plug with a stake. For comparison, see what happens to 12 gauge buckshot: (images found at http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm )
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2010-06-18, 04:11 | Link #11255 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Hmm. Maybe my perception of the Winchesters causing large wounds is due to their resemblance to a shotgun. Jessica's blinding in Ep3 doesn't help much with this.
Still, the lack of exit wounds is very telling. A weapon of this power would usually go straight through someone's body, correct? If there's never an exit wound, then wouldn't the murder weapon have to be a much less powerful gun? |
2010-06-18, 04:13 | Link #11256 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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My way to interpret all this part: -The illusion of Kanon said Rosa killed him = they found evidence to believe Rosa did it or perhaps a letter. Rosa got one in the beginning, it could be that letter. This evidence/letter was found in the kitchen. -If it was a letter, then it might have been written in it to go to the servant room. -Now here is the hard part. Nanjo and Kumasawa were not there, however their master keys were in the letter inside a closed room. Gohda, Genji, and Shannon claim to have closed the room before leaving. If Nanjo and Kumasawa had an accident in the servant room, but were faking it, they couldnt have closed it and leave the master keys inside the door. So we cant have a faking or dead Kumasawa and Nanjo without thinking that Gohda, Genji, and Shannon were part of this, unless they somehow managed to leave their master keys and get out of there without them realizing it. What i can tell from the magic interpretation is that Kumasawa and Nanjo both might have suffered an accident in the servant room because of the letter. Kind of the same thing as EP5 1st twilight because their corpses were moved. If we think about this like EP5 then Nanjo and Kumasawa were probably not even there, however there were reasons to believe they died there (blood/part of the clothes?). They were found in the courtyard, right? If no master key is needed to get there then they probably left theirs in the servant room for some reason. Gah its easier to just explain this with Shkanon . I dont know how to keep going with the rest, because there is a magic fight so that means there might have been some kind of struggle. |
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2010-06-18, 04:32 | Link #11257 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Looking at those wound profiles, bullet passes intact from 25 to 60 cm depending on type -- so yes, there would be exit wounds. If I'm right and .45 Long Colt is actually longer and contains more powder than .45 ACP, you need to essentially stretch those about a quarter along the distance axis. A close range shot through the heart would have an entry wound, an exit wound, and a bullet embedded in furniture somewhere further down the line. (Sorry, Kanon) For comparison, here's what a hollowpoint .45 ACP does: Scale is in inches here. While the wound would be much bigger and more severe, (which is the whole point of a hollowpoint bullet -- expanding early to optimally use hydrostatic pressure and increase stopping power) a bullet remaining inside the body would still be rare. Regardless, Battler very rarely examines the corpses himself, and pretty much never turns them over to see if there's an exit wound on the other side, so we usually simply don't know if they exist or not.
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2010-06-18, 05:32 | Link #11258 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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A bit more on wound ballistics before I have to leave:
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2010-06-18, 07:23 | Link #11259 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Shotguns apart I think there are still some kind of guns and bullets that are capable of destroying half face of a human being with a single shot, especially if hey are hollow point.
But I'm still very skeptical about the existence of real firearms in Rokkenjima. Even the winchesters could be just toy replica.
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2010-06-18, 08:15 | Link #11260 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
As for toy replicas, I wonder if Battler was anywhere nearby when Hideyoshi discharged Rosa's gun in Ep3. If he was, toy replica it was not.
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