2010-06-03, 16:45
|
Link #261 | ||
|
Mastermind Rational
 Author
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 37
  |
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:13
|
Link #263 | |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
|
I'll try to be more clear about my opinion.
I simply think that Teresa's arm without Teresa's power is inferior to Irene's arm without Irene's power,in other words i think that when Claire uses the arm of another warrior,the strenght of that arm depends on Claire's yoki power and the amount of training that the arm has,that's why imo Irene's arm is by far the most trained arm in speed-tecniques (and so the most powerful). Anyway i still think that Irene's arm was faster than Teresa's, and there is nothing strange about it.Even if Irene understimated Teresa, she was confident that she was the fastest,but at the same time she knew perfectly well that in a 1 on 1 she wouldn't be able to hit Teresa,infact she wasn't surprised at all by the fact that Teresa could easily parry. If you follow your logic (where if you are the fastest your opponent can't defend from all your attacks),since Irene was sure to be the fastest,she should have been quite confident to win against Teresa even in a 1 on 1 battle.....but as we know that's not the case.This observation leads us to a simple conclusion:even if Irene was the fastest there is nothing strange for someone like Teresa to keep up with the speed,covering the gap thanx to her unique prediction-ability,anyway even if i think Teresa was slower,it's not that she was A LOT slower. Btw,you also seem to think that anyone can use the QS but i'm not so sure.When Claire understood that the QS consisted in awakening only one arm keeping it under control she basically said to Irene that was a monster to be able to use a tecnique like that,so no,i think that only very few warriors could even try to use the QS.We know that Claire was able to learn the QS in a short period of time (and at the beginning her QS reached an usable level only thanx to Irene's arm....),but that means nothing since we also know that Claire is not a normal warrior........who knows what kind of crazy amount of training a normal warrior has to undertake to simply reach a level where the QS can be used in real battles. Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:19
|
Link #264 |
|
Thread Hijacker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
|
english so soon? i bet its cnet and frankyhouse lol. i do agree that if claire and raciellas power merged together its more in the realm of possibility that priscilla ma finally have met her match... however claire as a person may be lost forever...and thats too tragic.
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:20
|
Link #265 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
|
The quicksowrd is a technique everyone should be able to learn. The problem is they can't achive the same speed and precission Irene could. It requires a lot of concetration and practice so one doesn't make unnecessary movements and keep the arm under control. The second part is probably very hard to do thus why only Irene used it.
Now Irene's arm is probably better than Teresa's at that point. As I mentioned due to the fact that Irene trained using the quicksword a lot her arm could easily handle all the yoki flow and go in nearly awakened state compared to someone using the quicksowrd for the first time. With this you could say that Irene's arm was the fastest but just as an arm. You could sa it's an already trained arm that is perfect for someone who has as much yoki as Irene. In short it's perfect for Clare. However if Teresa trained using the quicksowrd in time her arm would have become something Irene could only dream of. What I mean is that Irene's arm is perfect for the quicksword since it's trained very well and can handle all the yoki but that makes it less than perfect for someone has more yoki than what the arm could actually handle. And I believe this is what Ryus was trying to say - that if Clare had Teresa's yoki with enough training she could become faster using her own arm and not Irene's. Though how much yoki the body parts of diiferent Claymores can handle is something we have no idea about. Well considering their bodies after they awaken the orginal ones's capacity to handle yoki should depend on the amount of yoki the warriors have. And if that is true than Irene's arm limit will be the amont of yoki Irene could use without awakening and Teresa's arm limit would be the amount of yoki she could use - which is a lot more. Now one might argue that blocking requires less movement than attacking and that is indeed true. However if Irene was faster Teresa wouln't have had time to block. Even if she sees them Teresa needs to consider where Irene's sword would go and after that block the attack. For this to be successful Teresa has to have similar speed to Irene. She could afford to be a bit slower but not by that much since if the attacks are too fast and from different directions she still wouldn't be able to keep up (sicne she has to first see them and considreing the speed by that time Irene's sword would already be moving thus giving little time to block). All in all the speed of Teresa's arm and the speed of Irene's arm had to be close and considering Irene was using her yoki to use the quicksword and Teresa wasn't to block it, if Teresa actually used yoki (and I'm sure it would be really easy for her to use the quicksowrd really well considering her yoki reading skills) she would be faster than Irene. To know where the attack will connect should take some thought considering you can't sense the attack itself but rather the direction, speed and power of the attack - which doesn't mean you instantly know where it will hit - it just gives you the details you need to know to "see" where it will hit. At least that should be the case with Claymores which use Claymores (that sounds kind of wiered) for their attacks unlike ABs who use their body parts to attack (and yoki flows to the actual point of the attack). What I'm trying to say is that even if you have more power and know the direction, speed and power of the incoming attack if you aren't almost as fast you won't be able to block it. Anyways this was a bit long and unecessary  About the actual chapter now. The fact that Clare lost her claymore might actually end up being what saves Prissy. It's a wiered idea but we saw that a claymore can cut through the Destroyer without a problem and the sword itself doesn;t seem to be damaged. Now Prissy is confident that she can take down this new enemy but she should face a lot of problems with regenerating. If the first few attacks she uses end with her losing some body parts she might actually pull back. And we'll actually see Prissy being overpowered in her awakened form. There are now two claymores lying around there somewhere and I'm not sure that's a coincidence. Maybe by using them Prissy would be able to kill the Destroyer and that in itself might end up saving Clare? A really wiered idea but it migh happen. And I just saw the tranlsation is out so I'll need to post something again
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:21
|
Link #266 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
 |
Well something is going to happen to her. She's the main character...she's not totally dead.
Priscella is also a bit too confident. She has no idea what the destroyer is capable of and is not really being careful...though don't blame her.
__________________
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:21
|
Link #267 | |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: France
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Because all mangaka said that in interview or like that ? XD Already Kubo ... Yey for Claymoredansen anyways. XD |
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:29
|
Link #270 | |||
|
The Invisible Me.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New York
|
Quote:
It's funny because I grew up on manga and american comics both so usually resurrection is no big deal for me in fiction but... it depends on the plot, the tone of the story and what the death meant to the story. In the case of Teresa, her death is the catalyst that set the series itself in motion. Without it, Clare would still be human and Priscilla would probably still be a Claymore, which means no Northern war, no Abyss Feeders, no Isley attacking Luciela, no Destroyer, no death of the Abyssal Ones... And someone is going to say, well if she came back all that would still have happened, which is true, but I just think undoing the death would negate one of the story's major driving forces. I also think, without going into her controversial power level, she's too much of a "star" in the sense that she'd eclipse the protagonist just by being there. I think she's the kind of character that tends to exist only in flashbacks and dream sequences. If I say any more I'll end up breaking my no debates on the first day rule, so suffice to say I think she's better left dead. She is one of my top five characters, though. Quote:
Thing is, right now, I'm having the problem forming theories on where the story is going to go in the short term - if the Destroyer kills Priscilla, then the story loses much of its centerpiece, and plus we've got the Destroyer eating everything in its path with an avalanche of naked corpsey vampires and nothing in the story powerful enough to take it out. But if Priscilla just kills the Destroyer, it's kind of anticlimactic - I don't really have a principled problem with Priscilla being powerful enough to do it, but it just seems dramatically weak, IMO. Plus then who will stop Priscilla from knocking Clare around? (Unless she reaches Clare and gets all, oh look it's just a corpse! and goes off to play golf or whatever). And then we have the idea that Priscilla and Clare could take it out "together" somehow, which I do think is dramatically interesting but then leaves us wondering why they don't just fight until they fall asleep from exhaustion. So every solution I can think of leaves us with a plot issue, and I know somehow Yagi will get around it/come up with something way better or at least something that solves the problem but as long as I have no idea what it is, my brain is confounded. /babbles forever and ever and ever. Anyway, I think what I'm trying to say here is... why isn't it July yet? Quote:
 Amazing. Now I will forever picture him standing atop the HQ, dancing and screaming YATTA.
|
|||
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:33
|
Link #271 |
|
Thread Hijacker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
|
the reason people say raciella might be stronger then 2xao is because of riful said about her getting stronger and stronger. 2xao is nevertheless the clearest idea on her powe that we have.....wow shrimpy transated i love how he came back after all this tme.
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:41
|
Link #272 | |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:52
|
Link #274 |
|
Thread Hijacker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
|
welcome alovely burn! i agree with you if only their was a was a way for claire an priscilla to team up to kill raciella because if eithe f them dies...the story is pretty much done with. im still waiting for that truce to happen but every chapter feels like it kills its chances every month.
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:52
|
Link #275 | ||
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
|
Quote:
Btw it's a fact that Teresa's arm never trained in QS so in the end Irene's arm is the best trained one. Quote:
It's NEVER said in the manga......and probably Claire now has already more yoki power than Irene and i don't see any problem.......reversing your logic,if Irene's arm can handle Teresa's yoki power it would create a QS unbelivably powerful. About the chapter: Priscilla is probably way too powerful even for the destroyer,even after the transformation it seems she is just doing a walk in the park,she's not worried at all! Like i thought the only one that i can see as Priscilla's opponent is Claire,no one else. I don't think there will be a merger between Claire and the destroyer,i think the destroyer will cause Claire to awaken and it will end being killed by Claire. Last edited by MalakTawus; 2010-06-03 at 18:08. |
||
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 17:56
|
Link #276 | |
|
The Invisible Me.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New York
|
Quote:
 I don't think there's ever a point of no return, really - Yagi can always make something happen. Which isn't to say that I necessarily think it will... or think it won't . I can see it going either way, although I suspect there'd be a lot of  ing if Priscilla doesn't get her head chopped off by Clare. I do think the story would have serious problems without either of them. I know a lot of people dislike Priscilla, but she's still the other half of the central emotional plot, and there are too many unanswered questions. |
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 18:14
|
Link #277 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
|
Ok now that the translation is out.
It seems the destroyer is sucking the energy of everything it touches but not quite. It's more like it's feeding on the yoki of everyone but if that's the case why are the threes dying? If it scuked the energy out of everything than Prissy and Deneve should be dead by now. There is something more there we don't yet know or at least I think so. It aslo seems Prissy understands more than us about the Destroyer and she was never bothered by it and what it would become from the start. She seems just annoyed by it. Another interestingh thing is that it seems regeneration works perfectly ok if you have enough energy. But if Deneve managed to regenerate so much,considering she was fighting for such a long time and the gap in power Prissy shouldn't have any problem dealing with the Destroyer and it's attacks. However I still think the two Claymores that are around there somwhere would paly a role in defeating the Destroyer. Oh and Prissy took a hit from those naked-black-claymore-vampire-hell-cat-things(?) (also known as the Destoryer) and wan't bothered by it at all. It's right on page 23. So does tha mean she is too powerfull for it to drain her energy just like the rods couldn't take control over her? Or she has so much power it doens't bother her? Or amybe since she has so much power she hasn't realised it's sucking the energy out of her? Alos another way to look at things is that that thing (let's come up with a new name  ) is only as powerfull as two AOs but it can suck the energy out every living thing and convert it to yoki for itself. That would explain why Riful said it's power was growing. As I mentioned earlier it seems Clare is destroyed just around the point where Teresa's flesh should be implanted. This might mean that the Destroyer will suck her energy (yoki) and tranfer it to itself which would give it enough of a power boost to fight with Prissy on even grounds sice at this point it doesn't look like it stands a chance. This in itslef might end up in a connection being made between the Destroyer Clare and Teresa which could explain why Clare will survive after this. And the good thing is that Prissy should still be able to kill it since even if it has Teresa's yoki it doesn't have her reading ability nor a mind and it just attkacs wheresa Prissy is in full control of her abilities. I mean that sounds better than the two Claymore-wileding Prissy idea I had just a while ago. There are probably a lot of other interesting things in this chapter but I have to sleep now. And Ryus thanks for posting Claymoredansen - I'd forgotten all about it Oh and welcome a lovely burn (or alovelyburn if you prefer) Hope you enjoy it here  @MalakTawus That's true but Irene's arm is only as powerfull as the yoki of the one that uses it so it' basically the same thing. And I never argued that Irene's arm wasn't the best trained arm but that it wasn't the fastest. The reason why I said that the arm couldn't handle more yoki is because it's simply not trained. Imagine that in the begining it's hard for yoki to flow throughout the body but when it's brough to a near awakened state it gets easier and easier for that body part to do a lot more and hadle a vast amount of yoki without the rest of the body. Just like some of the techniques other warriors use. And the more yoki you have the higher the limit the body part has before going into near awakned state. Basiacllay if you have too much yoki like Teresa and the arm of Irene bringing that arm to a near awakened state would require less power than bringing her own arm to a near awakend state. In Clare's case it's the oposite meaning she could pour more yoki in that arm that she could in her own hence why everyone was saying that "her arm is on a different level" before the 7 year time skip. I said in my earlier post it all depends on the connection between the body parts and their capacity to handle large amounts of yoki and the amount of yoki the owner of those body parts has and this is basically what I meant by that. I don't think Clare has more Yoki than Irene. She might have a bit more at the moment but not by much. And yes if Irene's arm was used by Teresa and it could handle her yoki it would become just as powerfull as Tere'sa normal arm but it should take less training. However I don't believe this is the case since I think there is a connection between the body parts and the amount of yoki their owner has. I could explain it better but right now I don't have the time. Last edited by Joe_fh; 2010-06-03 at 18:34. Reason: answer ot MalakTawus's post |
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 18:34
|
Link #278 | |
|
The One Eyed King
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lurking Up Ahead
|
Quote:
Good point... we need a translation check of chapter 93 pages 12 - 13 where Clare comments about the form of the Destroyer. Could be there was a missed meaning/context in that translation or the one we just read (ch 104) is wrong. It has happened before... I suspect the trees being drained is akin to how certain humans can sense yoki. Could be her yoki sensing abilities went ≥x2 also upon awakening... making Raphaela's A in the databook an S or S+. So could be she's stealing yoki rather than manipulating it. I get a kick out of it every now and then. However I also enjoy thinking of who Claymoredansen 2 would feature. Last edited by Ryus; 2010-06-03 at 18:47. |
|
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 19:28
|
Link #279 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
|
@Joe_fh:
ok,now i understand your point of view and even if i don't agree with it i admit it's a way to view things that has its logic,but since i have a different interpretation of the basis i reach different conclusions,anyway unless Yagi decides to clarify some uncertainties about this matter(i doubt it will happen) we'll probably never know for sure..... |
|
|
|
2010-06-03, 19:31
|
Link #280 |
|
Guts=badass
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: passed out inside a sea monster.
Age: 33
 |
No no no The Teresa vs Irene arm needs 2 go 2 Teresa vs Priss thread please.
The whole Priss team up with clare... hell no I don't want that ever!!! I wan't Clare and Priss 2 kill each other, no team up Clare sole reason was 2 get revenge!! Everything would have been for nothing if they team up...  I will give up on Claymore if such a thing happens!! ... well maybe not.
|
|
|
 |
|
|
