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Old 2014-10-30, 20:40   Link #1061
Nagakun
The One who Peek
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Singapore
I think having people to do some try on and to see how other can produce. I know 1 year is kind of too soon, but giving a chance for them to improve is another thing. Well, unless he or she is unable to improve even that is another =x=||

Anyway, can we get back this series topic again? =x=||
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Old 2014-10-30, 21:16   Link #1062
Kami_Sama
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Join Date: May 2014
Age: 23
kekeke What a fool I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
no most of all i agree with you, but the problem here is exactly with TLC process, most of the time i feel that TLC is more tiring than TL itself and finding someone willing to TLC isn't exactly that easy. So he should be at least at a level where mistakes is limited to a certain degree where it's don't take much time on TLC, but only 1 year is too soon for me.
While I agree with everything you've said the reason I'm going to try to translate it is because it isnt being translated. Its mainly for me to both learn and enjoy the series. I'm just going to give it to anyone else that wants it, they'll go in knowing that I'm not an accomplished translator. As for how good I am at japanese, I know i'm not at the level where i can translate properly because i cant read it properly. But unless someone else picks it up and translates it I'm going to at least attempt it because I want to read it and because I consider it part of my studies. Thank you for advice and without a doubt I shouldnt be a translator yet and my work will probably show that but If its between Never reading it or at least trying to translate it myself, I'd at least want to try. Because like i said, i really want to read this series xD


Edit: you asked how much I study Japanese? I havent missed a day since January 23rd of 2014 and I've never done less than 2 hours a day. I'm not bragging or saying that because of that I'm learning faster than others, i just want you to know i have made it my number one priority whenever i have free time and ever since going to Japan last year its been one of my most treasured and important daily activities. Also WaniKani.com Is unforgiving, missing even a day would be a horror story for my Kanji learning as the SRS reviews would eat me alive and feed my soul to the Crabigator. Same with my Aniki Decks. The day i miss a day of reviews is the day my life goes to hell. xD

Last edited by Kami_Sama; 2014-10-30 at 21:20. Reason: Cause i forgot stuff.
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Old 2014-10-30, 21:30   Link #1063
dragon1412
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like i said, the problem here is finding someone that's willing to TLC it for you, checking your translation, go to the original source, checking again, it's ok if's it's some simple mistake, but if you misrecognized 1 grammar then that mean every single sentences with that grammar will have problem. And this is if there are someone willing to TLC, if you want realistic example, go to Sayonara Ryuusei thread, the guy who do that have 1 year of experience like you, check his version and then go checking travelingbum retranslated version of chapter 1. You will see that the so called translation with 1 year of experience look like a rewrite of the story and at that point, retranslate is easier than TLC. And of course, if you are willing to actually google the grammar instead of relying on MTL and found someone TLC for you, then go for it.

EDIT: like i said, i don't care about your Kanji, even my teacher who is a professor still use dictionary, the problem here is Grammar. i doubt that you have learned 1 /3 of the conditional grammar and any type of probability grammar. There is also the problem since this is a novel, not a manga, the grammar will without a doubt be much harder as well, there is a reason why many people translated manga before switching to LN.

Last edited by dragon1412; 2014-10-30 at 21:48.
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Old 2014-10-30, 21:54   Link #1064
Kami_Sama
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Join Date: May 2014
Age: 23
keke talked out of it, thus the intense grammar studying begins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
like i said, the problem here is finding someone that's willing to TLC it for you, checking your translation, go to the original source, checking again, it's ok if's it's some simple mistake, but if you misrecognized 1 grammar then that mean every single sentences with that grammar will have problem. And this is if there are someone willing to TLC, if you want realistic example, go to Sayonara Ryuusei thread, the guy who do that have 1 year of experience like you, check his version and then go checking travelingbum retranslated version of chapter 1. You will see that the so called translation with 1 year of experience look like a rewrite of the story and at that point, retranslate is easier than TLC. And of course, if you are willing to actually google the grammar instead of relying on MTL and found someone TLC for you, then go for it.

EDIT: like i said, i don't care about your Kanji, even my teacher who is a professor still use dictionary, the problem here is Grammar. i doubt that you have learned 1 /3 of the conditional grammar and any type of probability grammar. There is also the problem since this is a novel, not a manga, the grammar will without a doubt be much harder as well, there is a reason why many people translated manga before switching to LN.
Yeah my grammar is lacking without a doubt, I use imabi right now but your right about my comprehension of it. Alright well, in that case I'll just focus on learning grammar for the next 6months instead of Translating, and if no one's picked it up by then i'll give it another shot. We'll tbh I'll probably still try to translate it, although very slowly but since the concern is it being mistranslated heavily I wont post it anywhere. xD I've been following this thread since it was on like page 3 so I've really been wanting to read this series so even if its not now I'll try translating it eventually if no one picks it up. Who knows maybe I'll get really lucky and Yen press will pick it up for me like they did with Hataraku. xD
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Old 2014-10-30, 22:14   Link #1065
dragon1412
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i have nothing against translating while learning in general, but you are attempting a novel translation which language level is on a completely different level compare to manga, it's too high of a bar for you at the moment. You should try to read Manga in Japanese first before taking shot at a novel.
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Old 2014-10-30, 22:26   Link #1066
Kami_Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
i have nothing against translating while learning in general, but you are attempting a novel translation which language level is on a completely different level compare to manga, it's too high of a bar for you at the moment. You should try to read Manga in Japanese first before taking shot at a novel.
Yeah I know your just giving advice and i appreciate it. Yeah i know its above me but like i said this is a series i've been dying to read since the spoilers. As for reading raw manga I do that on a daily basis. http://raw.senmanga.com/ After my lessons every day I go on that site and try to read any of the new releases or I'll just jump to something like Kingdom and see if i can read the latest chapter then compare what i read to the already translated version.

Last edited by Kami_Sama; 2014-10-30 at 22:27. Reason: Spelled appreciate wrong. Like really wrong lol
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Old 2014-10-30, 23:28   Link #1067
wAzure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
no most of all i agree with you, but the problem here is exactly with TLC process, most of the time i feel that TLC is more tiring than TL itself and finding someone willing to TLC isn't exactly that easy. So he should be at least at a level where mistakes is limited to a certain degree where it's don't take much time on TLC, but only 1 year is too soon for me.
I wanted to quote your original post, but I guess there's no big difference.

Being perfectly reasonable, what you say is probably true most of the time, but not exactly something set in stone. It is possible to start translating even only after having no more than one year worth of experience.

It really is up to the person. Nothing is really impossible, and if he's willing to take a chance translating a LN using whatever he had already learned in that year, it is a good way to keep improving.

History had already proven the fact that there were human beings in this earth that could learn 1-2 languages in only one day and use them to an almost perfect degree. One year is perfectly reasonable for someone actually trying.

There's nothing that is almost impossible actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
the problem here is Grammar.
By the way, Japanese grammar isn’t hard at all. Not if you compare it with the English or Spanish ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
it's too high of a bar for you at the moment. You should try to read Manga in Japanese first before taking shot at a novel.
This is going to sound blunt too, but you can't decide that for him. I've translated harder things with less than one year of experience, and while they were not perfect at that time, they helped me a lot, but I could definitely do it. They were precious practice experience that got me to the point of pretty much being able to translate whatever showed up in front of me, given enough time and context.

English is yet another one of the languages I could roughly master in under a year, I'm not a native speaker at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kami_Sama View Post
Yeah I know your just giving advice and i appreciate it. Yeah i know its above me but like i said this is a series i've been dying to read since the spoilers. As for reading raw manga I do that on a daily basis. http://raw.senmanga.com/ After my lessons every day I go on that site and try to read any of the new releases or I'll just jump to something like Kingdom and see if i can read the latest chapter then compare what i read to the already translated version.
Just going to take a guess here, but I say you should give it a go. You will probably have to carefully think whether to make it public or not, but you should at least try. Nothing bad will come out of it.

Last edited by wAzure; 2014-10-30 at 23:45.
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Old 2014-10-30, 23:38   Link #1068
Kami_Sama
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Join Date: May 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wAzure View Post
I wanted to quote your original post, but I guess there's no big difference.

Being perfectly reasonable, what you say is probably true most of the time, but not exactly something set in stone. It is possible to start translating even only after having no more than one year worth of experience.

It really is up to the person. Nothing is really impossible, and if he's willing to take a chance translating a LN using whatever he had already learned in that year, it is a good way to keep improving.

History had already proved the fact that there were human beings in this earth that could learn 1-2 languages in only one day and use them to an almost perfect degree. One year is perfectly reasonable for someone actually trying.

There's nothing that is almost impossible actually.



By the way, Japanese grammar isnít hard at all. Not if you compare it with the English or Spanish ones.



This is going to sound blunt too, but you can't decide that for him. I've translated harder things with less than one year of experience, and while they were not perfect at that time, they helped me a lot, but I could definitely do it. They were precious practice experience that got me to the point of pretty much being able to translate whatever pops out in front of me, given enough time and context.

English is yet another one of the languages I could master in under a year, I'm not a native speaker at all.



Just going to take a guess here, but I say you should give it a go. You will probably have to carefully think whether to make it public or not, but you should at least try. Nothing bad will come out of it.
Thank you for your advice as well and tbh I plan to translate it in my spare time, but until i have a better understanding of Grammar I'm going to keep it private. Once i feel at least semi comfortable with the grammar i'll go back and check all my work and after edits, if no one else translated it I'll post them. But Dragon may have been blunt in his advice but it wasnt bad advice and I'm one who prefers that kind of advice. I'm definitely not ready for actual translation so I understand why mistranslating it would be really bad. Better to take the long route and give quality translations than the quick route and create misunderstandings through mistranslatations. xD So if no one steps up to the plate, look to hear back from me in the future Whether it be soon or far from now I'm unsure, though its most likely the latter hahah xD
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Old 2014-10-30, 23:57   Link #1069
Nagakun
The One who Peek
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Singapore
Dragon just being straightforward which isn't wrong.

Just learn along the way and the one who will thank you is the one who get to read it hahaha
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Old 2014-10-31, 05:11   Link #1070
dragon1412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wAzure View Post
snip
like i said in my original post, he should go for it if he somehow have a TLC which could partially correct him. The biggest problem, like i said as well, do not lies in the fact that whether he makes mistakes or not but whether he can recognized the that he make a mistake to correct it. In all the cases i have seen, most TL with low experiences do not realize he make a mistake, and in some case where they realized something is off or seen a new grammar they never seen before, they have a tendency to reach out to the MTL since it much easier to find someone to TLC for you and this escalate quick until they start relying more and more on MTL, here
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
And of course, if you are willing to actually google the grammar instead of relying on MTL and found someone TLC for you, then go for it.
Japanese Grammar itself isn't hard, i agree, but they are extremely confusing. there are about 6-7 forms use for conditional clause and this is already not counting combinations and variations. And this is a novel to boot, there is a lot of descriptive sentences, which is near non-existence in manga.

I agree that i shouldn't decide for him, and i never do so, i only purely stated advice and opinion out of all example i have seen, if i have to put out a range, then he at least should reach at least past all the conditional, probability and target indicate grammar, since pretty much most type of grammar after that is their variation or other forms.
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Old 2014-10-31, 05:25   Link #1071
chad001
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Why not just let him do it? He doesn't have to be THE official translator, and no one particularly has to step aside if they get there, but let him do it. Let him practice, and output what he makes, worst case, we don't like it, and someone else translates it again, but at least he gets the practice in right?
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Old 2014-10-31, 05:31   Link #1072
dragon1412
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad001 View Post
Why not just let him do it? He doesn't have to be THE official translator, and no one particularly has to step aside if they get there, but let him do it. Let him practice, and output what he makes, worst case, we don't like it, and someone else translates it again, but at least he gets the practice in right?
translate something that already get translated isn't easy as you might think, seen Mushoku tensei thread?? the MTL there is so bad that many translator gone away. what you said is akin making people to clean up other people mess.

And for the record, i never completely against anyone to translate, but like i said, he need, someway or another, a method to at least recognized he make a mistake if he make one.
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Old 2014-11-01, 03:35   Link #1073
travelingbum
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Join Date: May 2014
well I guess we won't be get spoiled with vol summaries on page 4 anymore. kancolle..... wonder if people going to like shirocolle
------------------------------

wondering if I should go and check out the sayonara ryuusei thing again and go at it with my terrible engrish if needed..... (Coming from a guy that has 0 people/language skills. Only good thing back then was that the subs/translations did not suck like what we see today)

since my quality alone is like a last resort if google failed or something. (I'm starting to feel like it's better somehow after seeing terrible jobs done by people that earn money doing it)
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Old 2014-11-01, 16:21   Link #1074
dracorax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingbum View Post
well I guess we won't be get spoiled with vol summaries on page 4 anymore. kancolle..... wonder if people going to like shirocolle
------------------------------

wondering if I should go and check out the sayonara ryuusei thing again and go at it with my terrible engrish if needed..... (Coming from a guy that has 0 people/language skills. Only good thing back then was that the subs/translations did not suck like what we see today)

since my quality alone is like a last resort if google failed or something. (I'm starting to feel like it's better somehow after seeing terrible jobs done by people that earn money doing it)
Did Lantern stop his summaries?
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