One Piece - Chapter 690 [manga]

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Where exacty was Smoker able to avoid Law's power?
IIRC Law took Smoker's heart with ease and had no problems switching Smoker with Tashigi.

Chapter 662
Page 6 and 7 Smoker deflected Laws power. His power only works when he is in the room. Fact the Room that Vergo was in during chapter 690 was bigger then the one Smoker was in during Chapter 662. So either Law was holding back his true haki strength or the size of the Law's room determines the power of the attack. Just remember Vergo is not dead only cut in half. If he out fought Sanji and was able to keep up with Smoker, what makes you think he is out of the game yet?

Exaggeration
Has for Law taking Smokers heart, Law had to fight for it which he was losing and barely holding on. Chapter 683 pages 14 and 15 Vergo took Law heart with ease. With out Smoker Law would have never recovered his heart.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by mareiyo

Smoker vs Vergo... Vergo was stronger.

Haki>Logia
Haki<Paramecia
Paramecia<Logia
Paramecia+Haki>Logia+Haki

The advantage of being a Logia is the fluid body, but Haki makes that useless.

Even if Smoker was fighting seriously, he would've been beaten because his DF was useless.

Not quite that simple, I'm afraid. The recipient of a haki-imbued attack can use their own haki to mitigate or even outright nullify the effects of Haki. In other words, it can be used both offensively and defensively. In the marineford war, both Marco and Vista attacked Akainu with haki simultaneously, and yet the admiral still sustained his logia form with no injuries. Of course, the level of haki mastery and state-of-mind also can affect its potency.

With that being said, haki doesn't necessarily render DF defenses useless.

[Kona]

Originally Posted by AmIaNeRd

Great ending. Law has redeemed himself!

I wonder if Luffy and Law will encounter the other 3 supernovas soon, seeing as how they were included in the panels.

Def

Want to see Hawkins and Killers abilities expanded since we didn't see anything much from them 2 years ago

[DawnEmperor]

How many times has Doflamingo been pissed off?

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

With that being said, haki doesn't necessarily render DF defenses useless.

I'm not sure of a concrete example. But while haki could circumvent Buggy's immunity to slashing attacks, it would not be able to stop him from consciously separating himself to dodge the attack.

EDIT: Just thought of one. Although haki can damage Smoker despite being in smoke form, it does not stop his smoke from being, well, smoke. Which is how he recovered Law's heart without Vergo noticing.

[Kona]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'm not sure of a concrete example. But while haki could circumvent Buggy's immunity to slashing attacks, it would not be able to stop him from consciously separating himself to dodge the attack.

EDIT: Just thought of one. Although haki can damage Smoker despite being in smoke form, it does not stop his smoke from being, well, smoke. Which is how he recovered Law's heart without Vergo noticing.

What are you talking about? Buggy said himself he can't be cut, Shanks commented on it when they were in the New World. There is no debating this. If he gets attacked with a sword slash that Mihawk did to Jozu, that's a different story.


Buggy hating.. nothing new to see here

[Whitemoon648]

Great chapter.

In terms of the fight, imo there are a few possibilities,

1) Vergo basically underestimated Law's ability/strength and was overpowered by his ability. He was probably like i will charge at him and beat him and won't (need to) dodge his attack. He paid the price by getting cut. If this is the case, then maybe if he didn't underestimate law the fight would have been longer and the winner unknown.

2) Maybe Vergo isn't/wasn't all that. I think in previous chapter discussion other also mentioned this too. Most trusted doesn't have to mean strongest.

3) Law is currently very strong ( back to 1 kinda). Vergo is still at the top in terms of strength but Law is just much stronger. If that's the case i wouldn't be surprised if the current Law was stronger than Luffy at this time at least. I don't think Luffy can use Haki defense on spot ( or on his whole body) defensively ( or at least in an efficient way) yet. At least based on the fishmen Island thus far.

4) Law's ability is just one of those broken one. If you get hit by it you are basically done for until it's undone or maybe other ways to revert back i don't know. In this scenario Luffy ( or others) maybe could still dodge the abilities. Something like Vergo vs Smoker fight. Law got the heart and it was that, but it took him a while to do that. Most likely Smoker was dodging/defending against it. but i guess Luffy could do the same since he is super fast. So in this case we wouldn't really know who is stronger law or luffy

Lastly, Could vergo also have an ability to revert back? Or maybe there are ways you can revert back abilities *_*. Although i do agree that the fight is probably finished, i am still having my fingers crossed until next chapter.

P.S. When you have a One piece chapter thread having more posts than a Naruto one, you know the chapter was just that great haha .

[golgo13]

One thought on so called power rankings.

Its more like rock, paper scissors. Some powers match poorly against others. Luffy vs. Enel is a good example. Additionally, some characters have evolved the use of their powers differently, various uses of haki is a good example (how roger used the gum-gum fruit will be another....jk!). I'm sure we will see and have already seen fruits or abilities which would take down Law as "easily" as he took down Vergo. I'm actually a little surprised Vergo didn't quickly jump over to kick Law in the head like he did before, he must have been distracted or over-confident or something.

What kind of things will counter Donflamingo's ability? The may be a "reach" issue but damn he's strong...

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Kona

What are you talking about? Buggy said himself he can't be cut, Shanks commented on it when they were in the New World. There is no debating this. If he gets attacked with a sword slash that Mihawk did to Jozu, that's a different story.


Buggy hating.. nothing new to see here

Buggy hating? I wasn't buggy hating. It is a fact that haki ignores any ability user's auto-defense properties. Yes, normally you can't cut Buggy, but it's different when haki is involved.

I do believe I ALSO mentioned that Buggy can still separate himself -before- he is attacked. Not to mention, should he learn to use haki himself, this would complicate matters even further.


So I'm not quite sure where you get the ludicrous idea that I am hating on Buggy.

[randomlex]

But man, Luffy and Law formed an alliance and they already managed to piss off two of the most powerful people/groups in the world - things sure are going to get interesting!

Somehow, I don't think Doflamingo will be that affected by the events at Punk Hazard - he didn't become (and stay) the king of the underground without being extremely smart (he's bound to have a contingency plan). His displeased face most likely means lots of trouble for Law and the Straw Hats by extension (just like Ceasar said) instead of him worrying.

[golgo13]

Originally Posted by randomlex

But man, Luffy and Law formed an alliance and they already managed to piss off two of the most powerful people/groups in the world - things sure are going to get interesting!

Somehow, I don't think Doflamingo will be that affected by the events at Punk Hazard - he didn't become (and stay) the king of the underground without being extremely smart (he's bound to have a contingency plan). His displeased face most likely means lots of trouble for Law and the Straw Hats by extension (just like Ceasar said) instead of him worrying.

I hope Kid, Hawkins and Apoo join too.

It would be disappointing if Donflamingo is ultimately brought down ala Crocodile and Moria. Always thought of him as an internal underground king pin who always manages to survive and keep massive influence. Thats a personal opinion, i'm a fan of his. From the sounds of it, Law made a direct challenge to Donflamingo so they are likely going to battle.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Buggy hating? I wasn't buggy hating. It is a fact that haki ignores any ability user's auto-defense properties. Yes, normally you can't cut Buggy, but it's different when haki is involved.

I do believe I ALSO mentioned that Buggy can still separate himself -before- he is attacked. Not to mention, should he learn to use haki himself, this would complicate matters even further.


So I'm not quite sure where you get the ludicrous idea that I am hating on Buggy.

Not necessarily.

Some fruits may act retroactively, and not proactively. Marco and Buggy are the two that comes to mind.

Rubber DF as well as logias work proactively, to try and prevent damage to the body from happening.
Marco's work retroactively, as in, it doesn't stop him from getting hurt, it simply heals him afterwards.
So haki or no haki wouldn't really matter, since either way you're still inflicting damage to him.
Buggy's body may work the same way. It doesn't prevent him from getting cut, it simply doesn't take any injuries from the cut.

[Libros]

Really? because to me, it just looks like Buggy's powers are in a way, half Logia, half paramecia. He can split his body when/where/ how he wants, making him a paramecia. But he can also avoid slashes and attacks like that the same way a Logia could. Also, even if Haki were to be used, it'd still mean the attack would have to land to be Super effective. And finally, which Haki exactly would be super effective Vs Buggy? Armament or Observation? (King's Haki is a given since Buggy is fairly weak willed)

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Libros

Really? because to me, it just looks like Buggy's powers are in a way, half Logia, half paramecia. He can split his body when/where/ how he wants, making him a paramecia. But he can also avoid slashes and attacks like that the same way a Logia could. Also, even if Haki were to be used, it'd still mean the attack would have to land to be Super effective. And finally, which Haki exactly would be super effective Vs Buggy? Armament or Observation? (King's Haki is a given since Buggy is fairly weak willed)

It may look and function similar to a logia, but the biggest distinction is this.
Logia defensive mechanism is, as stated by Oda, to prevent the hits from landing on the user's real body.
Haki enables the fighter to bypass this and land their hit on the opponent.

Whereas, this is not the case with Buggy.
Regardless of who is attacking, the hits always land on Buggy's body regardless.
The ability here is that there's no impediment to his bodily functions from being cut.

So to simplify:
Logia = prevents real body from being cut
Bara Bara = can be cut, but prevents damage from the cut.

and extra:
Phoenix = can be cut, but restores damage from the cut.

That's a significant difference.

[Libros]

I see, I sort of wonder how severe an injury or illness Marco can heal though.

[golgo13]

Given the finality in the tone of the Law's speech and the impending doom of shinokuni entering the lab, will Vergo have time to attack Law? Law might slice him up some more and leave him in a million slices since he should still be able to fight, a la Kinnemon torso.

Seeing Law cut a mountain does raise interest as to how much Zoro has grown. Gotta hand it to Zoro for showing that he could finish a battle without going all out. Can't wait to see him match up against a top notch fighter.

Next chapters may reveal Law's submarine..

[Kona]

Originally Posted by Libros

Really? because to me, it just looks like Buggy's powers are in a way, half Logia, half paramecia. He can split his body when/where/ how he wants, making him a paramecia. But he can also avoid slashes and attacks like that the same way a Logia could. Also, even if Haki were to be used, it'd still mean the attack would have to land to be Super effective. And finally, which Haki exactly would be super effective Vs Buggy? Armament or Observation? (King's Haki is a given since Buggy is fairly weak willed)

Buggy weak willed? You know that Shanks and him were equals when they were with Roger. What's going to be the difference now that we know for sure that Buggy is going to be using confirmed Haki over the two year skip?

[articuzwolf]

Originally Posted by Libros

Really? because to me, it just looks like Buggy's powers are in a way, half Logia, half paramecia. He can split his body when/where/ how he wants, making him a paramecia. But he can also avoid slashes and attacks like that the same way a Logia could.

your definitions of Logia and Paramecia are messed up

Logia doesn't only mean that you can't be slashed or attacked, they just can change their body into substance of their DF power hence avoid/nullify damage caused by an attack (without Haki)

Paramecia can only apply the properties of their DF power to their body (like how Luffy's body being rubber-like) or produce it (like how Mr 3 and Magellan can produce Candle and Poison respectively without being able to change their body into candle or poison)

and Buggy can be attacked just like how Gomu-Gomu Bazooka hit him real hard during his confrontation with Luffy in the earlier arc of OP
I'm sure he can be shot as well...he can only avoid getting slashed (or taking damage when he got slashed) since it was his DF properties as long as no Haki involved

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

Great chapter.

In terms of the fight, imo there are a few possibilities,

1) Vergo basically underestimated Law's ability/strength and was overpowered by his ability. He was probably like i will charge at him and beat him and won't (need to) dodge his attack. He paid the price by getting cut. If this is the case, then maybe if he didn't underestimate law the fight would have been longer and the winner unknown.

2) Maybe Vergo isn't/wasn't all that. I think in previous chapter discussion other also mentioned this too. Most trusted doesn't have to mean strongest.

3) Law is currently very strong ( back to 1 kinda). Vergo is still at the top in terms of strength but Law is just much stronger. If that's the case i wouldn't be surprised if the current Law was stronger than Luffy at this time at least. I don't think Luffy can use Haki defense on spot ( or on his whole body) defensively ( or at least in an efficient way) yet. At least based on the fishmen Island thus far.

4) Law's ability is just one of those broken one. If you get hit by it you are basically done for until it's undone or maybe other ways to revert back i don't know. In this scenario Luffy ( or others) maybe could still dodge the abilities. Something like Vergo vs Smoker fight. Law got the heart and it was that, but it took him a while to do that. Most likely Smoker was dodging/defending against it. but i guess Luffy could do the same since he is super fast. So in this case we wouldn't really know who is stronger law or luffy

Lastly, Could vergo also have an ability to revert back? Or maybe there are ways you can revert back abilities *_*. Although i do agree that the fight is probably finished, i am still having my fingers crossed until next chapter.

P.S. When you have a One piece chapter thread having more posts than a Naruto one, you know the chapter was just that great haha .

Forgot one last one . Vergo is actually siding with Law ( betraying Doflamingo) maybe because Doflamingo has done something to Vergo or some one he cared for ( insert any possible reason). It could even have something to do about Vergo having lost ( was it his daughter? ). That could be true instead of fake.

[Libros]

Originally Posted by articuzwolf

your definitions of Logia and Paramecia are messed up

Logia doesn't only mean that you can't be slashed or attacked, they just can change their body into substance of their DF power hence avoid/nullify damage caused by an attack (without Haki)

Paramecia can only apply the properties of their DF power to their body (like how Luffy's body being rubber-like) or produce it (like how Mr 3 and Magellan can produce Candle and Poison respectively without being able to change their body into candle or poison)

and Buggy can be attacked just like how Gomu-Gomu Bazooka hit him real hard during his confrontation with Luffy in the earlier arc of OP
I'm sure he can be shot as well...he can only avoid getting slashed (or taking damage when he got slashed) since it was his DF properties as long as no Haki involved

Ah, that clears that up.