Higurashi Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[FubaredByAnime]

Originally Posted by MarmoO

No offence, but I think you should watch this episode once again, because your question doesn't make any sense (at least for me). Satoko's case here is completely different from Keichi's in first arc (firstly - she is not delusional about her abuse, if you saw 10th episode you can easily tell). And if you don't feel strong enough with your English try to use Word with spell-check or something similar.


One thing which completely took my attention when I watched subbed version: Takano, her behavior, especially what she said: "you still don't remember me". For me she looks like a kind who would, like a cat play with her victim, throwing her "clues" which he don't have any chance to understand... But still, if something similar to Groundhog Day's idea is pulled here, it would be somehow dissappointing (IMO).

Spoiler:

Are you saying that perhaps, each scenario is really repeating itself like how the Bill Murray repeats the same day and that Takano plays the Bill Murray character, capable of changing the course of the scenario because she knows what happened before?

[MarmoO]

AzureFlux:

Just because Satoko didn't go around swinging a bat does not rule out the possibility of her becoming delusional. From this episode you can easily tell that she isn't exactly in the right state of mind. The more important question is, what REALLY caused Satoko to act in this manner?

I don't think her bruises and kettles being thrown at her are caused by delusions.

I see two answers which would be an explanations for her breakdown:

1. She was abused by her uncle and his friends, probably also sexually.

2. If reminiscence with Satoshi wasn't thrown randomly there, it would mean that Satoko have much more in common with his disappearing. First - Satoshi really, really cared for his sister and it is hard to believe that he would leave her. It is probable that he is dead. Shion obviously knows more than the rest - why would she get so mad about "transferring away?", why would she blame so much Satoko during ladder scene? (I don't think she was sane there, but what she said there rather wasn't made up). I think Satoko is in a way responsible for Satoshi's death and because of trauma she has lost memory, Shion knows about this, maybe she had a chance to talk to him before he died and he asked her to not hurt Satoko and let her not remember this (or something similar) etc. KJeichi being so similar to Satoshi just triggered Satoko's memory.This have more holes than Swiss cheese and is not very probable, but it also opens a way for few other answers - still, before making any serious attempts to answer I'd like to wait for Rika's arc.

FubaredByAnime:

Spoiler:

Are you saying that perhaps, each scenario is really repeating itself like how the Bill Murray repeats the same day and that Takano plays the Bill Murray character, capable of changing the course of the scenario because she knows what happened before?

More or less: yes.

[FubaredByAnime]

Originally Posted by MarmoO

FubaredByAnime:


More or less: yes.

I guess Frederica Bernkastel's poems make more sense with this consideration in mind.

[orion]

Originally Posted by MarmoO

2. If reminiscence with Satoshi wasn't thrown randomly there, it would mean that Satoko have much more in common with his disappearing. First - Satoshi really, really cared for his sister and it is hard to believe that he would leave her. It is probable that he is dead. Shion obviously knows more than the rest - why would she get so mad about "transferring away?", why would she blame so much Satoko during ladder scene? (I don't think she was sane there, but what she said there rather wasn't made up). I think Satoko is in a way responsible for Satoshi's death and because of trauma she has lost memory, Shion knows about this, maybe she had a chance to talk to him before he died and he asked her to not hurt Satoko and let her not remember this (or something similar) etc. KJeichi being so similar to Satoshi just triggered Satoko's memory.This have more holes than Swiss cheese and is not very probable, but it also opens a way for few other answers - still, before making any serious attempts to answer I'd like to wait for Rika's arc.

Maybe Satoshi does have more in common with Keiichi...

Spoiler:

If Satoshi was also getting abused and watching sis getting abused, he prob was planning to run away with sis. That's why he was saving his money I bet. He receives the curse unjustly and goes into Oyashiro-mode just like Kei did in Onikakushi hen. It was hinted at that he went off the deep end in that chapter. He then killed his aunt and "disappeared" by whatever means before he could kill himself. A coverup occurs after that. Satako is prob not remembering what happened and Kei is triggering her memories.

That would be a trip if...

Spoiler:

Tanako is the controller of this Groundhog's Day. She should have realized meeting Tomitake at the shrine is bad news by now.

[FubaredByAnime]

That would be a trip if...

Spoiler:

Tanako is the controller of this Groundhog's Day. She should have realized meeting Tomitake at the shrine is bad news by now.

Spoiler:

You're assuming she's the victim of the curse. Honestly, of all the people in this show, she's the one I don't trust the most. She's just consistently maintains her uber-creepiness everytime we've seen her where as the other characters consistently change every arc. And if she's the controller, that would give her the power to screw anyone over, kinda like Bill Murray early on in Groundhog's Day.

[Sinestra]

there any many speculations to be made about what has caused Satokos break down and what did K1 do to set off that reaction. several others have already posted some very intresting theories that i agree with. but i think i am definetly going to have to watch the ep one time. I do agree that Satokos uncle is not just physically abusing her, she is most likely being assulted sexually as well by him and his friends. Which may explain why she acted the way she did when Keiichi touched her

[Mei Hikari]

re episode 10:

gomen nasai gomen nasai gomen nasai gomen nasai gomen nasai

Spoiler:

Lots of info condensed in this ep, I had to backtrack a few times.


- Satoko's uncle
will die before episode 12.

- Irie:
At 11:32, I'm pretty sure Irie wanted to say "Why are you so much like her brother?".

- Oiishi:
Was he on a "bad cop routine" day? Funny thing is, as the arcs progress it seems K1 befriends the villagers more and more. First time around, the only one he could trust was Oiishi. Now the cop isn't last on the list just because of satoko's uncle.

- Takano:
When Takano (the nurse) introduced herself by saying "You still don't remember me?". I had a big OMFGWTF SHE REMEMBERS? moment. But it turns out it was just Studio Deen fucking with me.

- Mion:
"Murder is a horrible thing." further encourages me to think Shion is the actual psycho bitch.

- Satoko's breakdown:
A little too much with the whole "K1 flying across the room" twice, but nicely done otherwise. The aversion to physical touch is definitely a big sign of sexual abuse. This scene teared me up.

[lifestorm2]

yea, how did a little girl throw a teenager boy 6 feet away into the table/wall?

[Eric the Grey]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler:

Overall, this scene lacked impact. In the game, there really was a strong sense of tension, that "this is an emergency! There's no time left to sit around and "wait-and-see", Satoko is in a dangerous state right now and she CANNOT be left alone anymore!". But in this episode, it felt almost as if everyone just stood around watching Satoko act creepy... It's just not the right image...

There was also a strong sense of regret and despair for Keiichi in this scene, he cursed himself for not doing anything sooner. In the game, Keiichi already discussed Satoko's situation with Rena and the others, as well as Chie-sensei, for days. Keiichi's biggest fear was that by the time actions were taken, it would be "too late" for Satoko, and that they'll never be able to return back to their happy days. Well, the scene where Satoko broke down was the limit, it's "too late" now, Satoko has already been broken, it was naive to think that Satoko will be able to hang in there until a solution can be figured out, and now they will never be able to go back to their happy days again... That was the hopelessness and emptiness that took over Keiichi's heart at the moment.

Anyway, this was also the scene where Keiichi "made the decision". The episode stopped just short of this, but I sure hope they do show (in the next episode) how Keiichi's brain was thrown into overdrive by this. His super-cold thoughts and precision-decisiveness was absolutely stunning in during this section of the novel, it would be a sin if they skipped out on Keiichi's "transformation".

Spoiler for Poor Satoko :(:

I don't know if I agree with you here. For me, this scene hurt. I've seen pain of this sort IRL, and knew immediately what was going on. It is not pretty. I was ready to get up and find a bat myself.

That being said, I think we'll see the next episode picking up pretty close to this point.

Originally Posted by keke

I was really surprised by this chapter, mostly by Oishi. Oishi always seemed like the nicest guy in the whole series, but suddenly he's so different in this chapter..

I'm not that surprised by this. In the first two arcs, Keiichi was much more cooperative than he was this time. He is playing the big-brother, wondering why this man is looking for her. Not the smartest thing to do, since he identified himself as the police, but...

Originally Posted by lifestorm2

yea, how did a little girl throw a teenager boy 6 feet away into the table/wall?

The same way she knocked that ball out of the park. The little girl is surprisingly strong. Just not stronger than her uncle, apparently.

Personally, I thought the episode went fairly smoothly and did not feel rushed. I understand that a lot was taken out, but if you haven't seen the game (or manga, I suppose) then it seems to be much better.


Eric the Grey

[MarmoO]

Originally Posted by Mei Hikari

re episode 10:

Spoiler:

Lots of info condensed in this ep, I had to backtrack a few times.



- Takano:
When Takano (the nurse) introduced herself by saying "You still don't remember me?". I had a big OMFGWTF SHE REMEMBERS? moment. But it turns out it was just Studio Deen fucking with me.

Spoiler:

What she said doesn't seem like casual thing to say when you talk to almost complete stranger, who you have seen at best few times earlier on the road. Her explanation rather doesn't have much worth, because what she said "I have seen you few times earlier" is the only thing possible for her to say, something like "I've talked with you in earlier arcs, well you, killing off your friends, was one of the most amusing things I’ve ever seen" would be at least "strange".

[orion]

Originally Posted by FubaredByAnime

Spoiler:

You're assuming she's the victim of the curse. Honestly, of all the people in this show, she's the one I don't trust the most. She's just consistently maintains her uber-creepiness everytime we've seen her where as the other characters consistently change every arc. And if she's the controller, that would give her the power to screw anyone over, kinda like Bill Murray early on in Groundhog's Day.

Well, Takano did..

Spoiler:

manage to disappear without a trace in the first chapter, substitute a dead body double for herself in the second chapter and is now healthy as ever again in the third chapter spouting "Don't you remember me." to Kei. If she's not at Bill Murray's level, she sure does have a keen survival instinct. She prob one of the few that knows about this Groundhog's Day and how to survive it.

And..

Spoiler:

in what way do you think that Tomitake will bite the big one this time? Maybe, he should be nicknamed "Kenny".

[Darkside]

I used to feel bad for Tomitake for getting killed off everytime so far, but now I kind of suspect him and Takano to be up to something too.

Oishi has gone down from first place of the people I can trust since the 1st arc... He seemed like a jerk this time around.

Also Shion is scary . I wasn't sure what happened in the last arc with Mion/Shion, but i'm assuming now that the evil demon one was Shion the whole time?

[willem113]

This was truly a diturbing ep.

First of all Oishi has doesn't to be the good cop that he portrayed in the first two chapters.

And it would seem that Satako's nii nii.
Wasn't such a good brother.

As for the relationship between Mion and Shion.
I think that Mion has two personalties.
And Shion doesn't has much to do with the curse.

[Matrim]

Some of you are really reading too much in Takano's words. Maybe she just considers herself to be really beautiful and that men should remember her because of that.
Moreover, it's a lot more likely that in a few accidental meeting, the one who lives in a village would remember the newcomer than the opposite, simply because the newcomer has to keep track of many new acquaitances, while every new face in the village stands out. Or maybe they never actually met and Takano just lied.

[npal]

Distrurbing... I didn't feel so disturbed in other episodes.

I wish Rena would get her cleaver and chop off some heads, particularly Satoko's uncle.

Anyone who abuses lolis must face a painful death... Bring on the nail-and-hammer!

Keiichi, you're the man A huge improvement from the other arcs. Go kick some ass. Damn... This is just the thing I'd have done... Child abuse-> SEEDmode trigger.

Satoko's uncle is sooo dead

[Darkside]

The only thing I've really found really disturbing so far was the bat scene at the end of ep 4...

[npal]

^ I'd be extremely delighted to see that scene concerning Teppei's head

[aliensporebomb]

Wow. Despite what some say this was a powerful episode. I can't
wait for the next one.

[dKiWi]

Spoiler for for repetitive apologies:

I don't know whether this similarity is significant or even important. Satoko apologizes alot of times in this arc, similar to Rena outside Keichii's house in the first arc. Any significance at all? Both involve Keichii hurting the respective girls through a physical catalyst, even though most of it is mental.

[rocket]

Okay I got two episodes in one dose because the change in the release schedule totally threw me off. That might be part of it, but I actually agree with the game playing crowd even though the anime is my only experience of it. This episode seemed rushed and lacking the sense of dread the previous chapters had at this point. Especially following right after watching ep9 I thought it was just "Average".

Also, at the risk of sounding like a infidel, I'm not quite feeling the Satoko love everyone else seems to be having either! I found her most endearing with her sneaky trap laying side, but I've gotten most of that from the TIPS. The anime's mostly ignored her, and now really only focuses on her sudden identification of Keiichi with her older brother. Meh, I don't know why, but seems forced on her side.

Keiichi's reactions and protectiveness though, seem much more honest, and seem to be fullfilling the harem-game pattern. ^_^

There *were* some good moments...

Spoiler:

Biggest one being Keiichi's visit to Mion! Since the last time we saw Keiichi and "Mion" at her house it was a pelude to him being tortured, I thought the scene was incredibly tense. I also coudln't believe she was so cooly denying her role in the murder! I still think of her as the tomboyish infatuated with Keiichi Mion we saw in Ep5, but even with the twin swapping possibilities I can't quite figure out how I can preserve this idea of her.

The other two scenes that got my pulse pounding were:

Originally Posted by MarmoO

One thing which completely took my attention when I watched subbed version: Takano, her behavior, especially what she said: "you still don't remember me".

She's always struck me as creepy, and definately critical to the whole mystery. She seems to be relishing the prospect of the murders each time, and the very first time she meets Keiichi in the first chapter she says something simillar. Even if she doesn't have a memory that cross the chapters she knows something about Keiichi and the role he's going to play. The other thing that struck me about Tomikate is how confident he seems everytime - he's messing with murders yet he's never the slightest bit concerned. Why does he feel so confident? Does he know whats going on and mistakenly thinks mimself immune?

Originally Posted by dKiWi

I don't know whether this similarity is significant or even important. Satoko apologizes alot of times in this arc, similar to Rena outside Keichii's house in the first arc.

The scene started out tense, but quickly got silly as Keiichi kept beign thrown across the room. Only Rena's psycho mode in Ep1 ever worked for me... but maybe because of it when Satoko started with the repeated apologies it gave me chills.

If you offend the demon, obviously you have to apologize. What other kinds of pennace do you have to preform I wonder?