Well, I'll need to wait for the subs to make a proper review, but first I'd like to say a little something.
Spoiler for opinions:
I agree that if we're always walking the fine line between DEEN cutting scenes completely and them handling the ones they leave in badly, we're just plain not going to be satisfied because no Anime is going to be a complete clone of the source material...but if they're going to have to modify the Anime to fit time constraints and whatnot, I need to at least feel for the characters. So far this series has made me feel almost no excitement or emotion even in the most important or otherwise awesome scenes. If I don't feel attached the characters, I really can't root for them, or cry if they die/lose their loved ones. I can forgive the undercharacterization in EP1 that so many people were up in arms about because to be honest, though EP1 is what hooked me enough on the series to buy EP4, when I finished it I didn't have a favorite character. No one really grabbed me as particularly interesting on an individual level in that arc. But come EP2, I was really finding things to like about half the cast (even Rosa, though EP4 saw to changing that), while in the Anime it felt like more of the same. If I was an Anime-only viewer I kinda could see coming to like Shannon by the end, or Beato if you're into villains (to me she was 100% villain in that arc), but that's about it. Everyone just feels like they exist for the sake of the plot and have no personalities of their own. If this were your typical mystery then stock characters like this are usually what you want, at least for the ones who are going to start dropping like flies, but it's a little different when you know they'll be back for every new arc to start over again...and now that we're into the third for the Anime, I'm still not really feeling it from most of the main cast. They still feel like stock characters.
I never read the Higurashi VN. I saw the Anime first and loved it. Read most of the Manga, thought to myself 'wow, the Anime kinda sucked...', in comparison, but I still enjoyed the Anime after that. Why? Even if they cut a ton of stuff, crammed 2 of the answer arcs into the first season, and generally made one mess after another until Kai, I still felt attached to the characters and scenarios as an Anime-only viewer. Reading something closer to the source material after the fact enlightened me a lot, but it didn't lessen my enjoyment of the Anime. Umineko however...even if I hadn't read the VN, I couldn't truly enjoy this series. It's mediocre at best. Looking at it not as an adaptation but as a series, it lacks the most important thing - getting the viewer sucked in and attached to the characters. This series just makes it feel like things happen just because they happen. It lacks the quality to make me really get into it or say 'wow I really like this character' or 'wow the plot is really hooking me'. That's my biggest problem, moreso than cut/modified scenes or poor music choices (though honestly, I liked Suspicion in the VN, but DEEN has made me really hate it...). That's my issue with the Anime, and I can tell some Anime-only watchers feel similar things, without knowing 'oh they cut some stuff?' and basing their analysis on that. The Anime just makes it hard to really emote for any of the characters, even though all this terrible stuff is happening to them. Sure, Higurashi didn't have nearly as many characters to worry about, so I'll call that a handicap for Umineko, but still. I should by EP3 be able to feel an attachment to at least a few of the characters in the Anime, and I just don't. I think that's what sets this apart from Higurashi the most, even though apparently by an adaptation standpoint it's much better. Higurashi had a lot of charm and when I got into that from the Anime-only perspective I still came out loving every minute of it. Umineko lacks that charm, and that's what makes me feel bad for Anime-only viewers. Though I do hope that it encourages them to check out the VN and turn new fans onto the series as a result.
Now then, my thoughts on the episode itself...
Spoiler for mini-review:
I admit my expectations were a bit too high for the magic battle. I'm very happy they used あかいくつ偽 for the scene, though. Still gave off an awesome feeling, even if it was short. I think they could have sacrificed about a minute or so from th Meta-Battle, honestly, just to round this off a bit. It's not that it was short so much as it ended abruptly before Beato really got to do anything cool. I think even another 30 seconds could have made this a little better, but this is all nitpicking. For what they did show, I thought it looked nice (though the soldiers look too much like steampunk mechs o_O; ), and the point of the series is to deny magic anyways so they shouldn't spend a ton of time on it, as awesome as the magic fights sometimes are. Was really happy with Ohara's performance here, though. Scratch that, I liked her throughout the whole episode, as usual.
The Schrodinger's Cat scene seemed dead-on perfect, at least from what I could understand without subs. As someone else already mentioned, this scene isn't just important to EP3, but to the entire series, as it explains the idea that what Beato shows us isn't necessarily what's actually happening. The Meta-Battle was perfect too, honestly, though as everyone has already mentioned the music was just wrong. I really wouldn't care if they never use DotG for the duration of the series (epic as it is, somehow it doesn't strike me as fitting to the Anime the way it is in the VN), I just wish they'd stop pimping Suspicion so much. Suspicion is just as the title implies...best used for scenes of quiet contemplation when the humans are trying to come down from the shock of the murders and question WTF is going on around them. It's too mellow for these scenes. I don't care what they replace it with even if it's Anime-original music, just make it something upbeat, please!! I felt no emotion watching this back-and-forth, and as much as some people think 'oh, the music was changed, it's not THAT big a deal', well, it is. Umineko is a SOUND novel, so yes, the music is really important to setting the mood of the story. Like I said, it wouldn't matter to me what they used in this scene as long as it was something upbeat that kept my excitement up for this scene. Without it, it just felt like 'okay, cool'. This one has nothing to do with 'but the VN did it better' - in general, it felt too boring for such an exciting scene.
Ronove covering Beato's mouth made me LOL.
Of course the scene most VN readers are disappointed with is the removal of the adult's epitaph discussion. This really hurts the episode and the Anime as a whole. Yeah, I understand it could be full of red-herrings, and that Ryukishi is supervising the Anime, and yadda yadda yadda, but it really just makes Eva seem to smart. It wouldn't have taken more than 30 seconds to have Rosa giving Eva her hint, which I think is pretty vital to what's coming in next week's episode. Eva was struggling. She would NOT have solved the epitaph on her own without that hint. I assume this means they'll also be cutting or at least shortening a certain scene next week where the two women discuss the gold, which to me reinforces that some of the hints given in the adult's discussion were more than red herrings - they talk as though those were pretty important to finding the gold, so I believe that. If they had kept this scene in, even if shortened, I would be giving this episode an 8. I would have rather seen a shorter Meta-Battle, honestly I would have (the long logic battles just don't work well in the Anime in general in my opinion, they feel better being short and to the point). It was otherwise a pretty solid episode, but to me this is worthy of making me dislike the episode on the whole...
Also, anyone else notice the fact that we see George's back with his jacket on sleeping in the chair in the scene where the adults check on the kids, but then 2 seconds later he's got the jacket off? Oh, silly DEEN.
I won't rate until I see it with subs, but as it stands I'm feeling about 6/10 right now. If not for the epitaph scene, I'd say that EP3 is looking much better off than EP2 by this point.
you worry about a silly fight scene? what about the size of that 10 ton of GOLD!!! EHEH
Anyway people were b___ing it on 4chan and many people really have no concept of how big of a pile 10 tons of gold is. Let's just say it's a lot smaller than you thing.
It's probably too much to expect your average 4channer to know that gold is one of the densest elements on the planet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urusai
Don't tell me that DEEN actually went and researched the dimensions of 10 tons of gold...
On the other hand, 10 tons of gold suddenly doesn't seem quite as impressive anymore
When you consider how rare gold is and the fact that it is valued in the range of 1,050 USD per ounce it does. I did a few rough calculations (in reality I am terrible at math) and I believe that pile is worth USD $364,732,126.
Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2009-10-01 at 15:03.
I want to know what the anime-only audience thinks of this episode. They do not know the maze of the VN, so they were the most blessed in watching this episode.
Beatrice's laugh was perfect in the Battler-dejection scene. Ahahahahaha. =)
I want to know what the anime-only audience thinks of this episode. They do not know the maze of the VN, so they were the most blessed in watching this episode.
I'm an anime only watcher, and yet again i enjoyed this episode quite a bit. I just love the major scenes between Beato and Battler, and the magic battle was nicely animated, and at the same time very interesting to experience. It could have been a little longer, though i didn't want them to over do it.
Ya know what, just got done watching the sub, and it wasn't as horrible as everyone seems to be playing it up as.
Most of it was very close and I didn't mind the short battle or even just Eva figuring out because in the novel I didn't even get what kyrie was talking about or how it even really helped.
As for music, to be honest in the novel i'd sometimes get really annoyed with the music and kinda just turn it down. The tracks that were there seemed fine to me, will this ever be a perfect adaption? No, but you really shouldn't expect it to be, if the anime took all the things the novel has in it then I think my attention would wander, but hey that may be good for non visual novel people.
As for quality, Maybe a couple off things here and there but i'm not really one to act like the worlds about the end over it.
This war of the VN players and Non-VN players should just be splashed with water. Going through a show not bothering to really care doesnt make anyone really want to look at your opinion and say you have a point, more or less it makes ME sit there and wonder if you're just trolling or intentionally being ignorant.
8/10
Watched the episode,finally,its getting interesting~!
And even though it was rather short,the magic battle was cool,i wonder if there will any more scenes like it~
Rating... gee, I dunno - probably an eight I guess. It was good but it's competing against the version I had in my head and I liked that better, honestly.
You've got to streamline things a good bit for a visual medium, no shame there. It does seem like we're skipping past most of Kyrie's moments though.
Next episode sets up what's probably my favorite scene in the novel so I'm cautiously optimistic about it.
well, I thought the episode overall was decent. I knew it, Schrodinger had to feature somewhere in this series...Not sure about the repeat of the same music during meta scene.
Initially I thought it's just they all disperse and lock themselves in the room to prevent the pursuit from their killer(s). But that still doesn't explain why they don't look for other people's help. Kinzo's one is a complete accident though~ XD
"Milady, your laugh lacks elegance." as expected from Sugita/Ronove~
Mahjong!? oh, just putting in the bullets.....
omg gold!? and a massive pile of it!? I can still assume that there's a couple more extra bars still sitting in Krauss's room right?
After reading forum and all the new infos
Spoiler:
well, the magic battle sure is a bit short, but the massive hammer and the knight on a horse trick can be a bit redundant. They sure do add a bit more epic-ness in the fight, but not sure if they are really that necessary.
Spoiler for what it would look like without the visuals:
I thought the stuff coming out of Beato's mouth is blood mixed with air in the lung which gives that creepy look. But the amount is too much and too dense to my liking.
Wasn't aware of the inconsistency regarding to George's coat. Could be that the back of his shirt also shares the same colour as his coat~ (I'd seen one of those, pretty hilarious really.)
I think one false impression given by the anime regarding to the epitaph scene is that it looked like an solo effort from Eva instead of the group working together. Not sure how would fix this impression in the next episode. Can we assume that what's shown at the end of the episode is THE ANSWER for the epitaph riddle? so all we need to do to "solve" it is to find out the link between the text and the location?
so who would be in the next twilight? right now there are two potential candidate pairings. I don't think they would kill off Eva and her husband in the 2nd twilight again.
and to the person who likes to spam red text: if as the stand alone this series bring enjoyment to the first time watchers, it's decent. Even if there's an even more awesome original work still don't mean that this series is crap.
At least the series didn't massively change the plot, the character interaction/development, and wuss out the protagonist like the one other series that just finished recently. The whole premise is still there, and I still feel intrigued by the storyline, even if some of the VN players said the overall presentation is a bit "lacking".
I normally treat it as an introduction to the general plot of the VN. If I like the story (which I still do), I normally would go and look for other mediums (eg. VN, Manga) that might present the umineko world better.
I don't know....maybe seeing too many fan arts actually helps to know the characters developments that might've been lacking in the series.
So we got Virgilia taking Battler's side of the game now eh? I find it pretty amusing that now with her help he's managing to back Beato into a corner, almost to the point where she was throwing a childlike tantrum. =p
The fight scene was short but nicely executed, the end result was definetly a surprise.
Thing is though, I wonder what room that is that Eva found the gold in...and what is the sweetfish river exactly?
Also due to the less-than-average quality of the video I was watching I couldn't read the translation of the bloody text on the door very well. =/
So we got Virgilia taking Battler's side of the game now eh? I find it pretty amusing that now with her help he's managing to back Beato into a corner, almost to the point where she was throwing a childlike tantrum. =p
The fight scene was short but nicely executed, the end result was definetly a surprise.
Thing is though, I wonder what room that is that Eva found the gold in...and what is the sweetfish river exactly?
Also due to the less-than-average quality of the video I was watching I couldn't read the translation of the bloody text on the door very well. =/
On the tenth twilight, the journey will end and you should reach the village of gold.
Post in this thread only if you are going to talk about episode 14.
If you are going to talk about the Visual Novel in a manner that does not correlate to the episode discussion at hand, then do NOT post in the thread. Locate the appropriate VN thread, and pour your heart out. This much whining and whinging can't be good for those viewers who are watching this material for the first time. Yes, we get it. The production value for most DEEN show sucks. So what else is new? There is no point in beating the same dead horse.
The bottom line is if you are not going to talk about the episode at hand, then do NOT post in the episode discussion thread.
All opinions, negative or positive, are welcome. There is absolutely no need to jump on someone's throat just because he or she persistently staying negative. You are giving way too much attention than need be. More so if it is true when you believe the poster in question is just trolling. And let's not forget that you are also driving the thread off-topic from the intended discussion at hand by responding and by engaging in this kind of pointless back and forth bickering.
A bunch of posts had to be removed as result. If the thread continues to go off-topic, then further measure will be taken to bring order. There will be a lot of hurt feelings, I assure you.
Please get back on topic! Once again, post here only if you are going to talk about episode 14.
__________________
Kudara nai na! Sig by TheEroKing.
Calling on all Naruto fans, One Piece fans, and Shounen-fans in general... I got two words for you: One-Punch Man!
Executive member of the ASS. Ready to flee at the first sign of trouble.
I really liked this episode, the fight was nice and the meta-battle was intriguing, I DONT REALLY CARE ABOUT THE MUSIC, JESUS CHRIST.
Also, I have a little question (no spoilers please), for what possible reason would Donove stop Beato in the middle of that sentence? Did that also happen in the VN? How could it damage beato to make that statement?
I really liked this episode, the fight was nice and the meta-battle was intriguing, I DONT REALLY CARE ABOUT THE MUSIC, JESUS CHRIST.
Also, I have a little question (no spoilers please), for what possible reason would Donove stop Beato in the middle of that sentence? Did that also happen in the VN? How could it damage beato to make that statement?
Ronove prevented Beato to make a careless move. Just think of chess. Any wrong move will affect the course of the game.
Well I enjoyed this one overall. Like for once that Battler finally got a solid victory and Beatrice actually had to step back...err I mean be dragged away. I think Battler really does need someone that is standing in his corner to give him a bit of help. He can come up with some good ideas but it's easier to stand firm when you don't feel completely isolated. Virgilia was huge in this for helping restore his confidence. She may have lost the magical firefight but she did well while being off the board.
So someone actually went and solved the riddle this time around? Well that should change things up. Even though the magic has been pretty flashy things are going in an interesting direction. Curious to see what will happen in the next one.
I wound up giving this episode an 8. It wasn't as bad as I feared it would be. The main failings were in animation quality (and how), and the lack of epitaph discussion. Weirdly I didn't mind the cuts to the magic fight. I loved the convo between Battler and Virgilia and the meta-battle.
Beato was getting worked up and about to say something she shouldn't. Ronove noticed that and stopped her. The red truth is a double edge sword. It destroys Battler's theories but it also leads him closer to the truth. Using it carelessly would be bad for her.
Artist
![[TAC]](https://cdn-forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic60901_1.gif){kind=icon}
Moderator
