News Stories

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Most people apparently think that the US economy broken by money grubbing megalomaniacs can be fixed within days.

Or possibly just they want more senseless gesticulations about their present economic welfare than senseless gesticulations about other subjects. Though that makes me wonder where the mosque thing fits into that?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Or possibly just they want more senseless gesticulations about their present economic welfare than senseless gesticulations about other subjects. Though that makes me wonder where the mosque thing fits into that?

Actually I was pointing out that Americans have more important things to worry about and fix other than something with a dome and a minaret.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Actually I was pointing out that Americans have more important things to worry about and fix other than something with a dome and a minaret.

Do the projeted mosque have a projeted miranet ?

[Urzu 7]

I heard someone mention on the news (a politician) that they offered support to have the mosque built somewhere else in the city that is not two blocks away from ground zero and it was quickly rejected by the Muslims for the Islamic center. If they cared at all about being sensitive to so many Americans, they'd see that it'd be very wise for them to have their building in a different location.

Are they unwise, or do they just want to rile up a good chunk of the U.S., in a very spiteful manner? I say surely it'd be right of them if they chose to have this Islamic center somewhere else, and they aren't choosing the right thing. They know this is creating conflict and it seems like that doesn't matter to them. Unwise and insensitive. Do you think it'd be right for some neo-nazis to put up a nazi museum very close to the biggest Synagogue in the city? No, and people would fight it.

I don't want the people in charge of this projected Islamic center to whine and complain when the building is finished and then they are subjected to hate mail, death threats, and vandalism to their Islamic center. They'd be so upset about that and it's like "Hey, you should have known better then to build it where you did".

Edit: I didn't mean to sound anti-Muslim in this post. I'm not anti-Muslim. I just think it is a bad idea for them to put the center at that location. I know I came off kind of harsh in that post. I was being opinionated over something I didn't know nearly as well as I should have. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry, and please forgive me. I can only be so humble after eating a heap of crow.

[cors8]

Originally Posted by Urzu 7

I heard someone mention on the news (a politician) that they offered support to have the mosque built somewhere else in the city that is not two blocks away from ground zero and it was quickly rejected by the Muslims for the Islamic center. If they cared at all about being sensitive to so many Americans, they'd see that it'd be very wise for them to have their building in a different location.

Are they unwise, or do they just want to rile up a good chunk of the U.S., in a very spiteful manner? I say surely it'd be right of them if they chose to have this Islamic center somewhere else, and they aren't choosing the right thing. They know this is creating conflict and it seems like that doesn't matter to them. Unwise and insensitive. Do you think it'd be right for some neo-nazis to put up a nazi museum very close to the biggest Synagogue in the city? No, and people would fight it.

I don't want the people in charge of this projected Islamic center to whine and complain when the building is finished and then they are subjected to hate mail, death threats, and vandalism to their Islamic center. They'd be so upset about that and it's like "Hey, you should have known better then to build it where you did".

Which politician? Many have a tendency to make up facts. As far as I know, Gov. Patterson is in talks with the organizers about a possible relocation. Of course, it has to be a reasonable location that serves the Muslims in lower Manhattan.

Also, there's a mosque in the Pentagon. Is that no hallowed ground too? Don't see people clamoring for it to be shut down.

Glad to see you're taking the Newt Gingrich approach though. That will clearly calm things down. Makes for great recruitment tapes.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Urzu 7

Are they unwise, or do they just want to rile up a good chunk of the U.S., in a very spiteful manner? I say surely it'd be right of them if they chose to have this Islamic center somewhere else, and they aren't choosing the right thing. They know this is creating conflict and it seems like that doesn't matter to them. Unwise and insensitive.

Actually, that's kind of the point. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his moderate group chose this spot specifically to show the modernity of the Muslim faith. By putting the center near "Ground Zero", the group is showing not only their support America and the tragedy of 9/11, but also acting as a means of fighting against the extremist elements within their religion (there is no greater blow to Islamic extremism than properly educating others (whether Muslim or non-Muslim) as to the teachings of their faith). By building so close, the moderate Muslim group wishes nothing more than show the world that their faith is not controlled by extremists, and that the Muslim faith can work and be a part of the modern world (or at least, this is how the group is presenting their plans and actions).

But, it seems this strong message of tolerance and understanding, and even a little repentance (or at least this is how I read the group's assumption of the tragedy), is viewed by many in America as a sign of "spiteful[ness]" and "insensitiv[ity]".

Originally Posted by Urzu 7

Do you think it'd be right for some neo-nazis to put up a nazi museum near the biggest Synagogue in the city?

Yes, as so long as it is within the zoning codes, etc, if a neo-Nazi group wished to build a headquarters near a Synagogue they would be completely within their rights (for a real world example: the KKK once sought to support a stretche of Highway across Missouri, and even though almost everyone complained about the racist group being so public, it was still well within their rights (and backed by the Supreme Court) for the organization to participate in the Adopt-a-Highway program; additionally, a Fox News Host claimed recently that he would open a gay bar near the possible Islamic center, and even if the statement was a joke, as so long as the area is zoned for a bar, that Host would be well within their rights to open such a bar no matter the outcry from the possible Islamic Center).

Just because one group doesn't like another doesn't mean that they cannot co-exist in and around each other. That's kind of the point of America afterall; the melting pot of a million voices each with their own story and their own opinions. Trying to silence one voice/group simply because the "majority" disagrees with them is not only biased and wrong, it is unconstitutional.

[yoropa]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Actually I was pointing out that Americans have more important things to worry about and fix other than something with a dome and a minaret.

Though I haven't seen the schematic, I think I'm safe in saying that it won't have those because it's not a full mosque. It happens to have Islamic prayer rooms at the top two floors. It also has a basketball court, a culinary school, and I believe a swimming pool as well.

People are getting angry because of ridiculous and unjustified fears. From its doors, you can't see the former WTC, and from the former WTC you can't see the Islamic Center, which will be built where the abandoned Burlington Coat Factory currently is. There are churches closer to Ground Zero than the proposed Islamic Center. There is already another Islamic prayer area a bit further out, but still in the area, that has been operating since before the WTC was opened. It's in a basement. Both areas for the religion are in places that do not get much tourism, and the average person heading to Ground Zero will not come close to seeing them unless they get very lost.

I understand why people may get upset, and if the center was actually replacing the WTC on Ground Zero, I would definitely understand why people would get angry over that and why they would want that blocked. But it's not, it's just bending and politicizing of the truth in order to affect this year's midterm elections.

We are fighting in Iraq for many things, and one of the reasons we went in was to free the Muslim population from dictatorship. We lost thousands of troops for this, and billions of dollars. To ensure that Muslims have freedom in a country that isn't our own. Whether or not that succeeded in Iraq is a different story all in all, but if we are willing to spend that much on the sake of Muslims in foreign countries, why can we not then allow those in our country to build a community center (with their own money) in a place that has a significant Muslim population?

Need I also remind you that there are Muslims in the Pentagon, which was also attacked on 9/11, who also pray. They are closer to the point of wreckage than this new Islamic Center is to the WTC. By a lot. And there's no problem with it.

Yet some people like Urzu 7 have said that if Muslims get personally attacked, then they have no right to complain. In other words, if non-Muslims commit acts of terrorism on Muslims in the United States, it's justified. The sad truth is that many people in this country think that, and the irony is overwhelming.

Yes, I'm Muslim. No, I'm not a terrorist. Yes, I was offended at South Park. No, I do not think the makers should have received death threats, I simply ignored the show as almost all of us did and paid attention to other, more important things. Yes, Muslims have a right to build a place of religious worship in America, as do Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Taoists, Confucians, etc. Why? Because this is America, and the beauty of America is the fact that you can do that without fear. This is why so many of us, not just Muslims, have left their home countries to immigrate here.

And, given the state of the government of many countries that have high Muslim populations, it's no surprise that people would want to leave to a better place. Like, oh say, the United States of America.

The Islamic Center will be built. Those who violently attack it will be prosecuted and found guilty in a court of law. Come 20 years and the inevitable war with North Korea, people will forget all about us Muslims and start trying to eliminate and block Korean churches from the country anyway, unfortunately.

So I'll conclude by going back to what Saintess said:
This is a non-issue. We as a nation have far more important things to worry about, such as the state of economy. Let's concern ourselves with things that matter over a single place of worship.

[Urzu 7]

*reads the two posts after his own* Touche. >.>

Well, as I figured, there is more to this then what I've seen (which is just what's on the surface). Some good points were raised and now I'm seeing this in a more proper context. I don't care for politics too much, so I don't know how to weed through the noise to get to the truth. What I'm saying is that I'm a victim to misinformation like so many Americas these days.

As you can see, a humble approach. It seems like the truth of this matter is different then what things "seem" like, and that is the misinformation part. Maybe that is one of several reasons why I'm not big into politics; watching the news is more often detrimental to developing a good opinion on politics then being beneficent to them.

Edit: I didn't mean to sound anti-Muslim in my first post. I'm not anti-Muslim. I just think it is a bad idea for them to put the center at that location. I know I came off kind of harsh in that post. I was being opinionated over something I didn't know nearly as well as I should have. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry, and please forgive me. I can only be so humble after eating a heap of crow.

[yoropa]

Speaking of more important issues to talk about...

Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home

KHABARI CROSSING, Kuwait – As their convoy reached the barbed wire at the border crossing out of Iraq on Wednesday, the soldiers whooped and cheered. Then they scrambled out of their stifling hot armored vehicles, unfurled an American flag and posed for group photos.

For these troops of the 4th Stryker Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, it was a moment of relief fraught with symbolism. Seven years and five months after the U.S.-led invasion, the last American combat brigade was leaving Iraq, well ahead of President Barack Obama's Aug. 31 deadline for ending U.S. combat operations there.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/...cans_head_home

[Solace]

It's not even a non-issue from a "we have bigger fish to fry" mentality. They have the right to build a mosque there, by rights granted under the Constitution. Just like the Constitution protects a Nazi rally in front of a Jewish Church as long as they peaceably assemble, no matter how distasteful and consequential it is, it is the right of the people to have such freedoms. To deny such freedoms is to spit on the graves of all those who fought, bled, and died for this country.

There is no arguing it, people can find it as offensive as they please, but unless the First Amendment is changed (heh), they're just whining to whine. Either through fear, ignorance and/or manipulation of feelings for benefit, none of which are good the country.

And this is from someone who has no love for religion at all. I don't have to like it, but I do have to respect that there are some who do, and it isn't my right to tell them they can't do something that is legally in their rights to do. And if needed, I'd die for that freedom.

[Hage-bai]

While the media, the politicians and this board continues to drumb up this topic...

I only ask that while the Saudi's who inevitably will foot some of the cost of the "cultural center", the Saudi's, Yemenis and whomever also help fund the Imam's state department "modernization" PR tour of the middle east which is sure to fall on deaf ears.

[MrTerrorist]

Japan man 'kept dead mother in a backpack'

Okay that's just creepy.

PlayStation 3 'hacked' by hardware crackers

Won't people ever learn to quit messing the PS3?

[Roger Rambo]

So apparently Fox News is a muslim terrorist command center.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

So apparently Fox News is a muslim terrorist command center.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were!

[killer3000ad]

Bull jumps ring and plows into crowd.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by killer3000ad

Bull jumps ring and plows into crowd.

good for the bull

[Vexx]

Proof that bulls are quite nimble bastards.... my parents lease land for cattle, one cow regularly leaped the barb-wire fences like a deer. It went "feral" as as far as we know is still out there in the woods. "mad cow of the woods"

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I wouldn't be surprised if it were!

Well, it would give them a headstart in getting terror related news.

[Xion Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Proof that bulls are quite nimble bastards.... my parents lease land for cattle, one cow regularly leaped the barb-wire fences like a deer. It went "feral" as as far as we know is still out there in the woods. "mad cow of the woods"

Mythbuster also had an episode on checking to see whether the proverb letting cows loose in a china shop had any merit. So they built a china shop and set a bunch of cows loose. They ran through it, but didn't knock over anything, easily maneuvering around the tight corridors.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Proof that bulls are quite nimble bastards.... my parents lease land for cattle, one cow regularly leaped the barb-wire fences like a deer. It went "feral" as as far as we know is still out there in the woods. "mad cow of the woods"

the cows name isn't cow tse tong wouldn't it?