Kanon - 2006 - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[kb7]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Oh and about the flashbacks...

Spoiler:

I too noticed at the very end there the scene with the tree and what looked like somone falling *cough*

Spoiler:

Is that the scene right before the tree flashback? I couldn't make out what that was.

[FatPianoBoy]

キスした
I was expecting Nayuki to suddenly appear and remind Ayu that thou shalt not make romantic advances on Yuuichi, but I guess she was taking a nap
Interesting point about the tree. I did notice something odd, but I couldn't put my finger on it. May she flew up there . Heck, I was half-expecting her to take a tumble off that branch, but I thought it might be a bit early for that. Guess I was right
Wasn't expecting the headband to have come from Yuuichi. Seemed too obvious.
Yuuichi breaking down was a very nice touch. Our Super Helper Onii-chan isn't invincible after all. Apparently he doesn't pick up on hints very well, as Nayuki's whole once-upon-a-time seemed to fly right over his head.
Did Yuuichi catch up to Nayuki during the race because he wanted to make up for neglecting her all time? That part seemed a little odd to me.

I'll hold out for a second viewing before rating this. The pacing was horrible, but the content was decpetively great.

[aliensporebomb]

Despite flaws and rushed plotting I loved this episode.

We finally see Yuuichi showing appreciation for Nayuki as well as
his recognition that other guys in his school and general area think
she's great - that she is a star athlete is the icing on the cake.

And Y1's bicycle bourne encouragement gave her that extra push
over the cliff to do what needed to be done.

Good going, Y1 - you might have some hope after all to not
completely alienate her by the end of the series after all!

Okay - let's talk about the last two minutes of the show:

I also see why Ayu and Yuuichi are turning to each other the way they are -
they have had similar experiences, their friendship goes back a long way -
and indeed - who are the best suited romantic partners?

Those who have been friends. I've been married for almost 12 years
to someone who was essentially a friend before anything else entered
the picture. When things turned romantic, I was surprised - I see a
look of surprise on both Y1's and Ayu's faces. Sometimes things just
happen.

In their case, yes, this probably is friends besieged by life turning to each
other for comfort but did anyone notice:

Spoiler:

Before the kissu:

Yuuichi looking at Ayu and definetely recognizing her as a woman and not
just as a fumbly girl-child - and his look just after was like "Get a hold of
yourself Yuuichi!" - and, of course, she didn't notice or pretended not to
or simply misinterpreted his wide eyed gaze.

The other thing that surprised me was the fact that:

Spoiler:

The one who manipulated the situation to turn it into a kiss was Ayu.
And Y1 wasn't arguing with the manipulation.

And of all the anime series where we see the camera panning around the
couple as they kiss (the last one I can recall was Kamisama Kozuku) but
this was done very nicely - from the teardrop outwards they must have
spent a ton of time on that little sequence. Beautifully done.

Well, we're in the home stretch everyone. This is it - another month or
so and we'll just be talking about what they could have done with the
series instead of what might be. Coolness.

[Grey]

Finished watching this episode just a minute ago. But I skipped the preview. You know why? Because I'm too busy thinking: WHAAAAAAAT?!?! The heck was that?!

Ahem. I'll take a moment to collect my thoughts and post something more intelligible later. But I didn't see that coming at all.... I'm too shaken up to write anything more constructive at the moment. (Didn't even bother reading the thread before posting...mind too frazzled).

EDIT: Whew. The preview was a bit of a mind-stab as well, but my mind has already been blown to the point that it can't get any worse.

So...I would adore it if the series went for a Nayuki ending. I heard that Ayu's storyline was the 'main story' before I made a resolution to try and avoid all spoilers. So now I hope for the Nayuki ending because it would be 'unexpected and refreshing' (since I expect an Ayu ending).

...I'm not sure how Kyo-Ani will spin the story now. It was quite surprising to see the degree of relationship progress in this episode, and I wonder how they'll carry it in the next few episodes.

[orion]

Whoa!

I can't add too much much to this.

Spoiler:

The kiss. That has got to be one of the best anime kiss scenes I've watched. Especially the tear. A lot of money was spent on that imo.

That kiss conveyed alot. Shared grief, desire to comfort each other and future romance all in one . Just in time for Valentine's Day.

Hmmm..I still think something happened to Shiori. I mean there is a big time lapse between Nayuki saying time to go home and Yuichi going to the train station. It could also be a reason why he broke down like that despite being told that she was alright.

Needless to say I gave it a resounding "10".

[Hagges01]

I can't thing straight, I was hoping for Ayu, but all this change my point of view
anyway ep20 come to me, I already love this serie anything will change that fact

Ayu....is too much for me.....

[DanielSong39]

For the most of the episode, I was wondering why much of this material wasn't covered much earlier, which would have given us (1) a central plot, (2) character focus, (3) better potential for character development, and (4) much needed background information. I'm glad that KyoAni finally got there, but it really shouldn't have taken 19 episodes to put the spotlight on the so-called "main girl" of the series.

As for the spoiler moment at the end of the episode - KyoAni absolutely jumped the gun. It would have been much more powerful had they been building the relationship gradually from the beginning. As it stands, it hardly changes from Episode 1 to ~18-minute mark of episode 19.

Most of the episode content was pretty solid, albeit 15 episodes late. Debating whether the last minute ruins the episode - but considering it got zero reaction from me, probably not.

Spoiler for Allusion to D. C. ~ Da Capo:

P.S. Maybe KyoAni could have learned a thing or two from Circus? Now D. C. ~ Da Capo showed us how to build up to a kiss... heck, even Sakura's near-kiss beat this version hands down.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Sorry, just a habit when it isn't stated and I haven't bothered to make the inference. I was trying to be courteous and it backfired. Apologies.

No no no, what are you apologizing for?! I'm not mad! I'm just messing around.

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

For the most of the episode, I was wondering why much of this material wasn't covered much earlier, which would have given us (1) a central plot, (2) character focus, (3) better potential for character development, and (4) much needed background information. I'm glad that KyoAni finally got there, but it really shouldn't have taken 19 episodes to put the spotlight on the so-called "main girl" of the series.

Sigh.....you're still watching 2k6 for the wrong reasons, aren't you?

If you haven't realised, KyoAni said from the very beginning that they're going to try their darndest to do justice to all five girls. That means they can't focus solely on Ayu.....because that is not the point of their reanimating Kanon in the first place.

Maybe something along the lines of Toei's "AIR the Movie" would have suited you better, huh? It sure seems that way to me from the way you're talking about it.

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

As for the spoiler moment at the end of the episode - KyoAni absolutely jumped the gun. It would have been much more powerful had they been building the relationship gradually from the beginning. As it stands, it hardly changes from Episode 1 to ~18-minute mark of episode 19.

While I'm not too sure about the rest of all of that, for once I do agree with you that KyoAni did throw that spoiler moment at us out of nowhere. Personally I thought this episode should have been two instead; this is like, the first time I can feel that they're cutting and pasting in a way that's below their usual standard.

Well, I'd be damned. I'm agreeing, albeit only somewhat, with DanielSong39.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by monir

I suggest a rewatch for a note-taking session. Hint: Zaris is on the right track! I'm afraid to say any more.

*sigh* lets rephrase what Vexx said : This episode does not fail at having context; it fails at delivering it.

And ZOMG - i actually agree to DanielSong39's 2nd and 3rd paragraph of his post *checks if the sky is falling*

[Deathkillz]

hmm anyone think that yuuichi was being kinda off near the end ~

Spoiler:

i mean normally his personality wouldnt allow him to fall into a trap such as this ~ yes he is stressed by the memories recalled but even so he seems a bit too serious towards ayu without much explination ~ the normal yuuichi would try and cheer ayu up but this time he falls into depression with her

~ and how did he know that ayu was going in for the kiss with his eyes closed? O.o i would have let it silde if it was only ayu moving up for the kiss but yuuichi moved too!? he should know that something must be wrong here

[Skyfall]

^ Agree with that. I am going to blame it on the rushed pacing of the episode, and the (supposed) emotional breakdown he just had. But overall i tend to agree with Vexx, that the kiss was comforting more than romantic (Although i believe some people might find it hard to stomach such an idea). It was much too sudden and out of the blue to be considered romantic from Yuuichi's part. (Who knows about Ayu).

If they are going to introduce Ayu x Yuuichi romance, then i want to see proper buildup, because at this point Shiori , and even Mai would seem much more fitting as a romantic interest.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Done with the episode.

Somehow this episode didn't really make the 'excellent' cut for me. Maybe I was just too spoilt by the first three arcs in front, but somehow I just felt that episode 19 wasn't all that interesting, mainly due to a few reasons:

-Yuuichi and Ayu's kiss. The only romantic implications I've ever seen so far was from their childhood, and in the episode itself. I get the impression that in the previous 18 episodes, they were really good friends, but nothing more. Maybe there had been more subtle signs of that kind of development, but I definitely didn't notice. If anything, the kiss might almost be misinterpreted as that of one that was out of sympathy, or simply one that was waiting for so long, only save for the fact that it had to take sadness to overwhelm both Yuuichi and Ayu to do so and display their feelings for each other.

-The way the different sequences of flashbacks and jumping back to the present were handled. Nothing bad about it, but it all seemed pretty mellow. I suppose it's another one of those 'subtle development' techniques used for the future episodes.

Aside from that, the episode was pretty all right. Perhaps a slight dip in animation (the running seemed a little awkward to me), but otherwise fine.

-I've got a feeling that they're going to overlap Nayuki's and Ayu's arcs or merge them together (pardon me if it's true in the game, since I haven't had the fortune to try it out at all), considering how Nayuki's implications of the 'guy she liked in grade school' is practically equivalent to Yuuichi's personality, coupled with the fact that she told Yuuichi not to trouble Ayu too much. In a way, it almost seemed as though she was giving advice as a close friend-Somone who once loved the person she was advising but has given up, instead trying to make him happy. Let's hope it doesn't turn out exactly the same way I think it to be.

-~Nyuu~ was awesome, as was the 'bonus chance', 'attack chance' etc. Expecting more tears than cheers, and yet we are still treated to some classic Yuuichi-ish humor scenes.

-I'm glad to learn that Shiori's nowhere near the throes of death...Or so I heard. I'm quite pleased with the almost insignificant development on Kaori's part as well, doing so much as to open up to Nayuki even about Shiori's condition, when before she couldn't give a damn about it.

Somehow or other, Yuuichi's finally near his breaking point. His display of depression was not unexpected, but I didn't think it would lead to a kiss or come at such a time. Makes me wonder whether his amnesia had anything to do with emotional trauma with a certain person that made him consciously forget most of what he had been doing with her seven years ago.

Preview reveals quite little, so I'll be waiting impatiently for it.

[Chaos2Frozen]

@Aleise

Hmm, icic...

@Skyfall

Ahh, yes... I agree about that part, unlike the other girls, they just jumped right in with Ayu, at least the last 2 were more properly developed... I meant story-wise of course! (Mai I agree, but he still looks more like an older brother to Shiori to me...)

So that was the other weird feeling I had at that scene... The first was the fact that Ayu has the body of a 13 year old... Sure they look good together 7 years ago but now... ;P

[rogueblade]

Like, what the hell?
What the bloody hell?

Was i the ONLY one who wondered if i had missed something? Since when did Ayu and Yuiichi remember their past? Since when did Nayuki grow such huge breasts?
No, but seriously - the revelation that both Ayu and Yuiichi remembered their time together, came like a bat out of hell for me. It's like i missed the episode where it was revealed, and where they got so relaxed with the fact and came to terms with it.
Another confusing issue was that of Shirori. What actually happened to her? Jun says that she was getting better, but then at the end when Yuiichi stands up and goes "Shiori..." and bursts seemed to suggets something else. I wish KyoAni had actually confronted the issue a little more directly, rather than skipping around it.

However, it was a very good episode, once i just let those things melt into the background. I don't know why people are saying that the animation was off-kilter this episode - i thought it was fucking brilliant. Especially the animation at the end, and the marathon scene - what with the bouncing...
I have to say, it did go at a fairly decent lick. It seemed as though KyoAni had to somehow get halfway through an arc in an episode, so it just satiated the episode with character development - even if it was detrimental, as i found. The music, as always, was spot-on for the entire of the episode.

[guuchan]

About that kiss, you guys are forgetting something --- we're talking about Asian culture here. We don't kiss for "comforting" each other. As merely friends, we don't even hug easily, between different genders. We kiss because we love (or lust? ) each other. "Kiss between friends" is far, far, far from being a common practice in Asian culture, even in the modern days.

[kb7]

Originally Posted by guuchan

About that kiss, you guys are forgetting something --- we're talking about Asian culture here. We don't kiss for "comforting" each other. As merely friends, we don't even hug easily, between different genders. We kiss because we love (or lust? ) each other. "Kiss between friends" is far, far, far from being a common practice in Asian culture, even in the modern days.

Being an Asian here, I agree with this analysis. The kiss is most definitely romantically motivated.

[Chaos2Frozen]

I agree, BUT IT'S STILL TOO EARLY for that...

The problem is that KyoAni took a massive leap to the moon with their relationship to have them kiss this early!

(Early as in nothing major happened that brought them a hell-lot closer...)

[orion]

Yeah, a full kiss on the lips between 2 teenagers has nothing to do with comfort and everything to do with lust imo.

I don't think that it was that early for the kiss. He probably remembered what she really meant to him back then and got up enough courage to face what she means to him now.

Looking back at those flashbacks, 10 yo boys don't spend all that money in an arcade for a female friend and also buy a hairband for that same friend. He spent a lot of time with and money on Ayu as a child compared to the others. I thought that those activities definitely implied girlfriend. Also she baked cookies for him which is not a normal thing for a friend to do either. That's a girfriend thing. Besides, he was hoping to get hot and heavy with her in the movie theater early on and had set the situation up with a horror film. That should have been a big hint on how he felt. He may have been thick but Ayu was thicker than him imo which is an amazing feat for an anime female.

Spoiler:

They probably weren't old enough to exchange phone numbers and do the long distance call thing like what happened in Zettai Shonen. That's why she was pestering him about returning and not forgetting about her.

Besides, there's more to Ayu's back story, so I suggest a waiting and see approach.

I'd love to see a Kanon movie focusing solely on Ayu and Yuichi.

[aliensporebomb]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

hmm anyone think that yuuichi was being kinda off near the end ~

Spoiler:

i mean normally his personality wouldnt allow him to fall into a trap such as this ~ yes he is stressed by the memories recalled but even so he seems a bit too serious towards ayu without much explination ~ the normal yuuichi would try and cheer ayu up but this time he falls into depression with her

~ and how did he know that ayu was going in for the kiss with his eyes closed? O.o i would have let it silde if it was only ayu moving up for the kiss but yuuichi moved too!? he should know that something must be wrong here

He trusts her - what's she going to do, stab him in the heart with a dagger? -
maybe he initially thought she was just going to hug him.

But - in cases of extreme emotionality sometimes people behave in a way
inconsistent with their regular behavior. I've seen it time and time again.

And if you've ever been in love with someone just looking at them might
make you go in an irrational direction especially if they like you that way too.

Especially if nothing has happened in the past - time is fleeting - does the
one you like have any idea? What if you died? That would have gone
unexpressed - could you bear it?

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by orion

Looking back at those flashbacks, 10 yo boys don't spend all that money in an arcade for a female friend and also buy a hairband for that same friend. He spent a lot of time with and money on Ayu as a child compared to the others. I thought that those activities definitely implied girlfriend. Also she baked cookies for him which is not a normal thing for a friend to do either. That's a girfriend thing. Besides, he was hoping to get hot and heavy with her in the movie theater early on and had set the situation up with a horror film. That should have been a big hint on how he felt.

Ahh...childhood sweethearts. Kinda corny when you think about it by the standards of our dreary reality, but sweet.

Anyway, I don't really think Yuuichi really consciously chose the horror movie. Perhaps it was an unconscious act he would have done exactly because he liked the girl without really understanding why at that point in time.

EDIT: Oh, CRAP. I can't believe I clicked wrongly. It was supposed to be an 8. My apologies.

Besides, there's more to Ayu's back story, so I suggest a waiting and see approach.

I'd love to see a Kanon movie focusing solely on Ayu and Yuichi.

Excellent. I'd be inclined to believe it's not one of those shallower ones (Da Capo's certain characters, IMHO) since it's Kanon we're talking about here. I would actually like that movie suggestion too, as well as having Yuuichi in different scenarios with the main female leads.