[Manga] Naruto Chapter 653 Discussion Thread

[Aqua Knight]

Originally Posted by Eleutheria

My friend's opinion of this chapter: "I read Naruto to see him kicking ass as a ninja, not kicking ass as a social worker"

That's golden!

[Apollian]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I think if we assume that Obito with the rinnegan can bring back the entire army (about 95% of them are already dead) then the cool thing to do now would be to somehow remove him from the war until the end, when he resurrects everyone and dies in the process. That would give space to Madara to do anything he wants, and by that i mean that he could kill Naruto's friends, the kages, any named character, etc. and with that bring the tension back to the story.

What we have is a little boy who wanted to become Hokage, and he was turned by the Dark side of the force. if Anakin was redeemable by killing Palpatine, then Tobito can put it right by ending Madara.

[GDB]

Difference being, people liked Vader.

[solidguy]

Originally Posted by GDB

Difference being, people liked Vader.

I like Tobi. Not so much Obito, but Tobi was a decent villian

[mystogan]

with all the alternate obito life flashes that we are having from the past few chapters, where obito is seeing how his life would be if he had returned to konoha, he grows with kakashi and the others and then finally becomes the hokage etc.

it came to my mind(now i don't know if this has been pointed out before but i'll say it anyway),
may be this is a plot hole, but all the visions that obito is having of his alternate life doesn't make any sense at all, because "if" he had returned to konoha he would have been killed by Itachi in the Uchiha massacre.

[ranchan13]

Originally Posted by mystogan

because "if" he had returned to konoha he would have been killed by Itachi in the Uchiha massacre.

You're forgetting the part where this is Obito's fantasy world, where he's a hero and a Hokage. In Fantasy Land, Obito and Sasuke BOTH survived the Itachi Inquisition. No one else expected it.

[Destined_Fate]

Naruto wasn't really being an asshole here. He was just giving Obito tough love. The guy really needs someone to slap him and tell him that he messed up very badly. Thus he should face judgement for his crimes.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

I predict...this will not be a popular chapter with the fandom. An entire chapter dedicated to TnJ with rehashed ideals and more Obito/Rin nonsense.

Funny, I see fans on other forums saying Naruto did not come off well this chapter.

Really, the only entertaining thing about this chapter is watching the NaruSaku and NaruHina fans fight each. Which is funny, because if anyone is Rin, it is Shikamaru with his wanting to stand by/watch over Naruto as he becomes Hokage love confession.

Eh. NaruSaku tends to be fine on their own as they have much material to pull from. While on the other hand it seems like NaruHina fans make it their life mission to say bad things about Sakura as they have far less material.

It's kinda sickening that such a shipping fanbase can be so toxic. Never before have I seen so many fans of a character, Hinata in this case, spam "whore" and the such where ever they see said character, Sakura. Whether it's from art, manga chapters, anime episodes, or vids that have Sakura in it they show up to hate without fail.

I don't think they understand that calling Sakura those things doesn't actually increase the chances that Hinata will end up with Naruto in the end.

I kinda pity them as many on that hate parade are very young and are making the rest of the NaruHina fans look bad.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Apollian

What we have is a little boy who wanted to become Hokage, and he was turned by the Dark side of the force. if Anakin was redeemable by killing Palpatine, then Tobito can put it right by ending Madara.

Well until now he's the worst mass murderer, killed about 75,000 people in 2 days of this war, not counting people killed by long range shots. I don't think that dealing with Madara is enough. But more importantly it would be quite sad if Madara didn't do anything in this war, because until now he was just fooling around instead of showing his full power.

[Destined_Fate]

Obito defeating Madara isn't redemption enough as he willingly helped bring this about and murdered many.

[mystogan]

Originally Posted by ranchan13

You're forgetting the part where this is Obito's fantasy world, where he's a hero and a Hokage. In Fantasy Land, Obito and Sasuke BOTH survived the Itachi Inquisition. No one else expected it.

ya i get that it's the obito fantasy, but if we think technically that if obito had returned to konoha i am pretty sure he would have been killed in the massacre, because even sasuke did not survive it he was allowed to live by itachi and we all know why.
i just thought i'll point it out, so is this a plot hole or something,

because it will be pretty funny at this point if this conversation took place

Kakashi: why din't you come back to konoha?
Obito: thank god i didn't or else i would be dead.
kakashi: .........

[Casshern]

Not necessarily. The rest of this post is pure conjecture...

Itachi had only just acquired his MS. It takes time for each MS jutsu to manifest. He might not have had Amaterasu and Susanoo. The only MS jutsu he had for sure was Tsukuyomi. He had also been living in Konoha his whole life, as a member of root no less. Imo it's unlikely that he would've acquired the 3 relics until he joined Akatsuki, because he couldn't roam freely throughout every country to search for them.

On Obito's side, his first chance to return to Konoha was when Madara let him out of the cave. He had already merged with Zetsu and gained wood release, and shortly after that he witnessed Rin's death, which granted him his own MS. By the time the massacre occurred he already had kamui.

In this situation, in a straight fight, imo Obito should win. He can resist Tsukuyomi with his MS. Even if Itachi had Susanoo and Amaterasu, Kamui is the perfect counter. Zetsu grants Obito superior stamina while Itachi is heavily strained to use each of his doujutsu. The only way Itachi can win is because of his Mary Sue status being equal to Minato. Kishi makes his favored character seem super-intelligent by radically dumbing down the opponent, as he did with Obito vs Minato.

Itachi needed Obito's help to carry out the massacre. It might not have worked out so well if he had to fight his whole clan alone, and then fight Obito too. Obito stops the massacre and becomes a hero. The village acknowledges him. Bam Hokage.

We don't even need to go that far. If Obito returned, Minato wouldn't have died and Kushina would still be the kyuubi's jinchuuriki. When Danzo proposes the massacre, Minato bitchslaps him back into place, bitchslaps the elders, de-ostracizes the Uchiha, and bitchslaps Sarutobi for good measure. Itachi never goes bad. Obito finally gets a girlfriend. The Uchiha work together with the village. Konoha becomes a superpower and Minato brings world peace. The manga is renamed Minato, the tale of a gutsy super-genius that never made any mistake, ever. The End.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

It's kinda sickening that such a shipping fanbase can be so toxic. Never before have I seen so many fans of a character, Hinata in this case, spam "whore" and the such where ever they see said character, Sakura. Whether it's from art, manga chapters, anime episodes, or vids that have Sakura in it they show up to hate without fail.

I don't think they understand that calling Sakura those things doesn't actually increase the chances that Hinata will end up with Naruto in the end.

wow, i only post here. didnt realize/know things got that bad out there...yikes

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Well until now he's the worst mass murderer, killed about 75,000 people in 2 days of this war, not counting people killed by long range shots. I don't think that dealing with Madara is enough. But more importantly it would be quite sad if Madara didn't do anything in this war, because until now he was just fooling around instead of showing his full power.

i believe Madara is currently maxed out....yep he fooled around with the kages, cuz he had immortality on his side, but perfect susanoo is his ultimate technique which by the way edo hashirama had no problems dealing with. madara current plan is to acquire hashiramas senjutus power. other than that im not so sure hes got any other cards to play. additionally the author is touting sasuke to have more potential than madara so its about time for madara to tap anyway. unless he actually gets the sage powers then i want some sasuke vs madara action

Originally Posted by Casshern

We don't even need to go that far. If Obito returned, Minato wouldn't have died and Kushina would still be the kyuubi's jinchuuriki. When Danzo proposes the massacre, Minato bitchslaps him back into place, bitchslaps the elders, de-ostracizes the Uchiha, and bitchslaps Sarutobi for good measure. Itachi never goes bad. Obito finally gets a girlfriend. The Uchiha work together with the village. Konoha becomes a superpower and Minato brings world peace. The manga is renamed Minato, the tale of a gutsy super-genius that never made any mistake, ever. The End.

interesting point...

but it was because of the nine tails attack that danzo was able to push that agenda forward...thus without that level of suspicion the uchiha leadership likley could have continued their plans and may have actually been successful. in other words i think their coup was already beyond minatos talk no jutsu considering what tobirama had already done

[james0246]

Personally, I don't see why Obito thinks he would have been Hokage. Itachi is clearly the superior choice in a non-Massacre universe. He has all the qualities needed for the job with none of the...whatever Obito has to make him bat shit insane (a venereal disease/infection he got from Rin?).

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I don't get why people said Naruto's being a dick in this chapter. In what way he's being a dick if I may ask? Mind you that he was talking to the guy who murdered thousands of people with his planning including Narutos' own parents. Indirectly, Obito also the one responsible for Naruto's miseries during his childhood. So if he's indeed being a dick to him, it's more than understandable isn't it?

Aside from "being a dick" issue, I personally think what Naruto said is thoughtful and hit the right spots in terms of Obito's main issues.

Originally Posted by GDB

Difference being, people liked Vader.

Tbh, after the Star Wars prequels hit, Vader are not so different from Tobito now:

Anakin: "Padme!!! NNNOOOOOOOOO!!!"
*becomes Vader*

Obito: "Rin!!! NNNNOOOOOO!!!"
*becomes Tobi/Madara mk.II*

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by mystogan

ya i get that it's the obito fantasy, but if we think technically that if obito had returned to konoha i am pretty sure he would have been killed in the massacre, because even sasuke did not survive it he was allowed to live by itachi and we all know why.
i just thought i'll point it out, so is this a plot hole or something

no way. first off, obito helped itachi do it and it's been stated that even itachi couldn't have done it on his own. secondly, they were on somewhat equal footing with MS eyes. itachi became a member of akatsuki to watch over them and protect konoha so it stands to reason that if he could have killed them all, he would have. the only members who were powerful enough to keep itachi from doing that were nagato and obito. and itachi was too powerful for them to kill him. it was a stalemate basically. itachi had the offensive power, but obito was too fast and the best evader we've ever seen. if itachi went after him back during the massacre, obito would have simply kamui'd away

Originally Posted by james0246

Personally, I don't see why Obito thinks he would have been Hokage. Itachi is clearly the superior choice in a non-Massacre universe.

isn't it just as simple as this was a universe where the massacre happened? for all we know, obito would have sided with konoha like shisui did. it makes sense since he did actually become hokage and there were no uchihas around

[james0246]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

isn't it just as simple as this was a universe where the massacre happened? for all we know, obito would have sided with konoha like shisui did. it makes sense since he did actually become hokage and there were no uchihas around

It was the Kyuubi's appearance (and Obito's actions) that ultimately spurred Danzou's actions (or at least gave him the clout to instigate the eventual massacre), so it stands to reason that there would be no massacre in a world were Obito possessed common sense. Additionally, since he would have such strong ties to the village, the Uchiha would never conceive of staging a coup even if they never really liked Obito to begin with (since they never really cared for him, that is why we did not see them in Obito's fantasy, but that need not mean they were still all killed off).

Ultimately, it's a fantasy situation were everything turns out hunky dory and Obito is not controlled by his hate, so I see no reason to believe that Obito would imagine killing off his family.

[Hoodspirit]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Tbh, after the Star Wars prequels hit, Vader are not so different from Tobito now:

Anakin: "Padme!!! NNNOOOOOOOOO!!!"
*becomes Vader*

Obito: "Rin!!! NNNNOOOOOO!!!"
*becomes Tobi/Madara mk.II*

There is actually a huge difference.
Anakin turned to the dark side before Padme died, in order to save her life via Sith-teachings. His motivation/goal in life after her death is unknown unless it is mentioned in a book.

[ranchan13]

Personally, and as I said before, the Obito as Hokage images are simply his fantasy. He doesn't seem creative enough to imagine a world where the massacre didn't happen, and in fact, I doubt thoughts of the Uchiha massacre even entered into his mind or the equation. He's still the same idiot he was as a kid, so he probably can't imagine such a huge, hypothetical world change as the massacre not happening.

Stop trying to read too much into it and finding plot holes in a character's fantasy. Obito's only thinking about his own desires in this situation, and therefore, there's no reason to consider that the massacre never happened. He doesn't care about the Uchiha.

[Hunter]

As ranchan13 said it's just Obito's fantasy, not some kind of parallel universe.
That said it's not an unlikely scenario either, if Obito had not become insane and returned to Konoha instead then there is no Kyubi attack, Minato and Kushina aren't killed, the Uchiha aren't segregated, do not plan a coup and the massacre is avoided.
Madara's existence is revealed as a decrepit and mostly impotent man and there is nothing stopping Obito to become Hokage once Yondaime steps down (particularly since in this world Itachi never gained the MS) which would probably put a definitive end to the Uchiha dissatisfaction.

More simply put, too bad for the world that Rin, Rin, Rin, Rin, Rin.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Hunter

As ranchan13 said it's just Obito's fantasy, not some kind of parallel universe.
That said it's not an unlikely scenario either, if Obito had not become insane and returned to Konoha instead then there is no Kyubi attack, Minato and Kushina aren't killed, the Uchiha aren't segregated, do not plan a coup and the massacre is avoided.
Madara's existence is revealed as a decrepit and mostly impotent man and there is nothing stopping Obito to become Hokage once Yondaime steps down (particularly since in this world Itachi never gained the MS) which would probably put a definitive end to the Uchiha dissatisfaction.

More simply put, too bad for the world that Rin, Rin, Rin, Rin, Rin.

except the uchiha were already segregated from tobirama's reign...the uchiha ill feelings for the village existed for quite awhile and its been stated that numbers of them were started to side with madaras ideals noted by the fact that there were exceptions...ie Kagami.
obitos treachery and the uchiha coup are separate events. the kyuubi attack prompted the massacre. it is likely that without it they still would have moved forward and Minato would not have prevented it