(L) Last Exile -Fam, The Silver Wing-

[LystAP]

After watching for awhile, I wonder if the Earth's Guild is involved at all. Although I suppose the next episode would clarify this aspect more.

All those "Guild" assassins Ades uses may not be Guild in the first place, but trained as a part of a special forces program with Guild roots. Although there is obviously a Guild connection, there doesn't seem to be any direct links or interactions with the Guild or as Alauda calls them the "White Legacy." By the way Alauda refers to the "White Legacy" as a potential enemy, the Earth's Guild may in fact be opposed to Ades, or at least used too.

Perhaps the Earth's Guild was overthrown by the Ades and all the other nations a couple of years back, around the time Prester's Exile returned. With the Guild no longer in control, they then turned against each other, as often happens in the aftermath of a revolution.

[stormwaltzing]

Originally Posted by TheKage

Well personally I'm fine with it. Ep 11 is sure to be even better than ep 9.5 xD
Flashback > Recap. We may even see a little of what happens next or just some small consequences. Maybe.

I am personally hoping for a mainly flashback episode with at least some bit of fallout/how that battle wraps up. Even if it's done in a way that ends in another screaming cliffhanger (like idk SURRENDERING or someone being taken hostage or some shocking surprise deus ex machina happens that causes the assassins and Alauda to retreat). I just hope for something because the timing of this episode between a recap AND a skipped week is like. Whyyyyyyyyyy!!

[azarhal]

The Ades "Guild" uniform have a arrow shaped insignia on its collar. Although, I think it looks more like Anatoray's Exile shape without the middle area personally. Note that the other Exiles are crescent shaped when in cocoon mode, while the Anatoray's Exile looks like a sarcophagus. So different Exiles model (which in itself is rather interesting).

Dio's Guild in the first series and the guy that claim to be from the Earth Guild in the manga, between the two series, use the infinite sign as their insignia on their collar.

I don't believe that Ades is made of people who never left. Too much signs show the opposite, like the big Prester Guild shaped symbol hidden in their flag. Why would the Earth Guild use the Prester shape as a symbol?

Also, who in is right mind want to take back frozen rocks because it apparently "used to be where we lived". It's typical propaganda for the mindless sheeps. The North was probably empty (i.e. abandonned/never settled) when Glacies settled there considering the weather in the area. Luscinia just want to destroy any country that could oppose his war of conquest.

And I'm really starting to think that Turan never displaced Giona to settle when they came back. The Amethyst of Kheos mentioned what their records said, but records can be doctored easily and everybody just believed what was written in them without questions...after Turan was crushed. And when you see that Giona was turning into a frozen waste, it's not hard to see that they just wanted to move them elsewhere and needed an excuse to steal some land for them. Also, Turan is still Turan...and they have a military and a Queen.

[klare]

when Liliana appeared with black dress, i knew she had turned to the dark side, but i think it is not that simple either

most likely the Tatiana look alike Glacies pilot will help Fam as she will remember Fam had saved one of them before

[pewpewpew]

Originally Posted by azarhal

And I'm really starting to think that Turan never displaced Giona to settle when they came back. The Amethyst of Kheos mentioned what their records said, but records can be doctored easily and everybody just believed what was written in them without questions...after Turan was crushed.

I don't think that's plausible, because (if my recollections are correct) all this recolonising of Earth has only been going on for the last few centuries. In the real world, written and oral histories hang around for even longer than that. Groups of people are great at nursing historical grudges, especially ones involving them being kicked out of their rightful territories. One of the Augusta's speech scenes shows that a fair number of Gonians remain, and they're very excited to hear about the resettlement. That suggests to me that their grievances are real.

Also, I'd dislike it if that did turn out to be the case, because it would remove moral ambiguity, making the Good Guys unambiguously good. Giving them some skeletons for their closet is more true to real history.

[TheKage]

Personally I think there has only been max 300-400 years when the first Exiles start to return or have been back to Earth. It took max 600 years for the Anatoray-Disith Prester to have House Eraclea to mess up and not care about their Guild duties. So I think there's some real grievances, but most likely Luscinia is exaggerating the problems of resources.

People who have become forced refugees would be much more pissed if they thought that there weren't enough resources for everyone.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by TheKage

Well personally I'm fine with it. Ep 11 is sure to be even better than ep 9.5 xD
Flashback > Recap. We may even see a little of what happens next or just some small consequences. Maybe.

Yup, these kind of flashback episodes are usually good and, not only that, some really key stuff happened around this time and something that also effected Luscinia so this flashback episode feels potentially quite important if they're ready to reveal some of what happened or show us what Luscinia used to be like.

Originally Posted by blewin

I'm thinking of Guitar and all the others who died before Alvis' first meeting with Claus. so rest assured, Claus and Lavie are too important to have been killed off without our knowledge! (to arrive with the main fleet?)

Agreed, they are way too important to have been killed offscreen. With Funi's version of this line I too am thinking that's what he's referring to. That even though she's lost people before like Guita and likely others who helped her escape from the Guild (like Ralph) and been through a lot of difficult situations (everything she persevered through in S1) she's the type who perseveres and still thinks of others. Yeah, hopefully Claus and Lavie and maybe a few of the others show up in the second half.

Originally Posted by pewpewpew

I don't think that's plausible, because (if my recollections are correct) all this recolonising of Earth has only been going on for the last few centuries. In the real world, written and oral histories hang around for even longer than that. Groups of people are great at nursing historical grudges, especially ones involving them being kicked out of their rightful territories. One of the Augusta's speech scenes shows that a fair number of Gonians remain, and they're very excited to hear about the resettlement. That suggests to me that their grievances are real.

Also, I'd dislike it if that did turn out to be the case, because it would remove moral ambiguity, making the Good Guys unambiguously good. Giving them some skeletons for their closet is more true to real history.

Yeah, I remember that speech scene too.

Totally agree I thought it was really good how they did that right from the start in ep 3 right after the first conflict was over showing the other side so that's how I think they've portrayed it purposefully, even fully developing Ades' internal multi-country political structure over the course of the first half. Plus they've done things like having Sadri be quite the honorable commander even thinking of his troops and valuing their lives etc..

I also feel there was purposefully a lot sincerity plus the specific choice of that very somber almost sad music that played during the description of the displacement of Gonia's people that was intended to imply that both parties have valid concerns and that Ades itself isn't supposed to be viewed that simply, even if Luscinia is taking it further or has been pushed to due to events of the past.

Originally Posted by azarhal

The Ades "Guild" uniform have a arrow shaped insignia on its collar. Although, I think it looks more like Anatoray's Exile shape without the middle area personally. Note that the other Exiles are crescent shaped when in cocoon mode, while the Anatoray's Exile looks like a sarcophagus. So different Exiles model (which in itself is rather interesting).

Dio's Guild in the first series and the guy that claim to be from the Earth Guild in the manga, between the two series, use the infinite sign as their insignia on their collar.

Also, who in is right mind want to take back frozen rocks because it apparently "used to be where we lived".

This. I thought the new Guild stuff was really intriguing, this last episode added a lot of interesting Guild twists and questions thanks to their uniforms, isignias, and Dio and Alauda's couple of lines so far during their duel.

Actually if I remember correctly the discussion in ep 3, they didn't want to take back the frozen rocks, it said they were actually displaced to them when Turan formed and they lost that land to the new kingdom, and were facing a particularly harsh winter, they wanted back the more liveable land we saw in Turan.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

Actually if I remember correctly the discussion in ep 3, they didn't want to take back the frozen rocks

The frozen rocks is where Glacies live. It's the new target of Ades (after they get ride of the Silvius and the Sky Pirates). According to the chibi-Empress it used to be the original Ades Federation land, but considering how she broke down after doing that speech, it might be a figure of speech (aka they believe they own all the planet regardless if they once lived on those lands or not).

[Vena]

Originally Posted by blewin

I'm thinking of Guitar and all the others who died before Alvis' first meeting with Claus. so rest assured, Claus and Lavie are too important to have been killed off without our knowledge! (to arrive with the main fleet?)

At the very least Claus being dead wouldn't make that much sense considering the state of characters we've seen thus far. He's more or less everything to Al (he's in every way more important to her than anyone else she's ever encountered in her life), so him being dead is going to be much more than just a non-descriptive "lost" and I doubt she'd be as chipper (for lack of a better word) as she was. Same thing for Tatianna who, unless having been dumped hard (which I cannot see Claus doing directly or indirectly considering how clueless he is to everyone's feelings but Al's) I'd expect to be a lot more like Alex (less smiles of destructions, and more scowls of destructions/single-man army/guild death squad ass kicking) than she is if Claus were dead.

But then, I can't really reconcile why Al is without, at the very least, Claus (and then Lavi and Holly). Unless she and Claus had a very spectacular falling out (extremely unlikely) neither of them would be without the other on the Silvius. Which leaves him being dead/captured/broken all viable options but, in the case of the latter two, I can't see people (Tatianna, Dio, or Al) just sitting on their butts not actively trying to help him. So maybe he's heavily under cover in the Guild or Ades?

It would be very suspect for them to kill him and Lavi off screen, it reeks of a writer's knowledge that the current main characters are lacking with regards to their predecessors, and would be easily overshadowed if the oldies returned. I'm very interested to see how they're going to resolve this, especially with how much more interesting the plot has become when other oldies returned to the story. I'm sorry Fam, but you're really not that interesting as a character amongst a possible cast of far more dynamic and genuine characters.

[wandering-dreamer]

Originally Posted by Vena

But then, I can't really reconcile why Al is without, at the very least, Claus (and then Lavi and Holly).

I think it might be more of a temporary thing; from what Vincent said in the episode it sounds like the Exile is in constant use now bringing old airships over from the Prestar (he mentions most of their fleet still isn't present yet, he could've meant either near where the Sivilus was or on Earth in general, obviously I think it was the later, especially since the Exile can only hold two Silvana sized ships at a time) and Al probably needs to be near a docking area for the landing/take-off procedures, if not on the ship itself. Plus, I know we keep referencing the Travelers of the Hourglass manga but it's kinda hard to get around it, in less than six chapters we've already had two attempts to kidnap Al by the (white) Guild, everyone might have agreed that for the moment it would be a good idea to keep Al either way out of the way or closer to Anatoray's military just in case they try again.

[pewpewpew]

Originally Posted by Vena

At the very least Claus being dead wouldn't make that much sense considering the state of characters we've seen thus far. He's more or less everything to Al (he's in every way more important to her than anyone else she's ever encountered in her life), so him being dead is going to be much more than just a non-descriptive "lost" and I doubt she'd be as chipper (for lack of a better word) as she was.

I fully agree. Also, I doubt Dio would be as outwardly carefree as he's been if Immelmann were dead.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer

I think it might be more of a temporary thing; from what Vincent said in the episode it sounds like the Exile is in constant use now bringing old airships over from the Prestar (he mentions most of their fleet still isn't present yet, he could've meant either near where the Sivilus was or on Earth in general, obviously I think it was the later, especially since the Exile can only hold two Silvana sized ships at a time) and Al probably needs to be near a docking area for the landing/take-off procedures, if not on the ship itself. Plus, I know we keep referencing the Travelers of the Hourglass manga but it's kinda hard to get around it, in less than six chapters we've already had two attempts to kidnap Al by the (white) Guild, everyone might have agreed that for the moment it would be a good idea to keep Al either way out of the way or closer to Anatoray's military just in case they try again.

I'm fine with any of that but I'd wonder why Claus and Lavie wouldn't be with her. They have no engagements that would be more pressing than being with/protecting Al, especially when there are so many attempts to kidnap her. I can't imagine Claus throwing in the towel and letting someone else do the job. And its not like they would be a liability to anyone. (Holly we can argue would have been, and she can be safely on the farm with Muller and co..) Claus is still the best pilot in the story, and his and Lavie's skills are unmatched amongst our current main characters (who have, unfortunately, been succeeding because of a lot of Idiot Balls rolling around and not because of any discernible merit aside from fanatical levels of gung-ho and some piloting skill).

So, it really comes down to: What is Claus doing that is more important than protecting Al? Watching his crops?

[Anh_Minh]

Just watched ep 8. Wow, that was a fragile ass warship. Brought down by a single handgun? They can't be serious.

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Just watched ep 8. Wow, that was a fragile ass warship. Brought down by a single handgun? They can't be serious.

The same could be said of the Death Star.

"Nice shot! That's one in a million!"

[Anh_Minh]

At least the Death Star had a decent explanation for why the shot was fatal: it completely destroyed what was powering the whole giant-as-a-moon ship. (No explanation for why there wasn't a grate or something, but whatever.)

That was one pierced fuel line of out of several. Aside from questions like "why wasn't it armored?", "why was it on the outside like that?", or even "why couldn't they just cut the flow and go on, maybe at reduced speed?", there's a big one: "accepting that such a vulnerability is unavoidable, why does anyone bother with big ships as anything other than troop transports and launch platforms for vespas with a handgun-equipped navigator (or vanships with machinegun turrets)?"

[MeisterBabylon]

This corresponds to a time period in our own history, when big ship policy reigned supreme during the lull between the great wars. The big ships do succeed in pounding sky pirates most of the time they aren't fighting Fam Fanfan.

And then along comes a spider named Silvius.

As long as Anatoray has more of these ships, or at least organize themselves into carrier battle groups, we don't need to SoD so often.

[Guido]

It would be easy for me to get carried away for the return of Vincent and, now, Alvis, but I do not to clutter in details for those who haven't yet had the opportunity to see the first Last Exile.

To be straightforward, I feel that Liliana has risen her own death flag.

My reasons to sustain the above mentioned statement are:
1. Millia cannot be a lot of things like her sister is. However, she isn't a liar. She knows her sister, and back then she knew Liliana was serious and not being controlled by Luscinia.

Hence, I have three other possibilities that fork from Liliana's decision to strip Millia off her authority and pledge allegiance to Ades.
a) Luscinia sweet-talked Liliana, like he does to Augusta, about the betterment for their people and the world, if the Ades Federation unifies the Earth under their reign.

b) Liliana is made to see the hard truths of this world and the others. Not all resources and land can be allocated for everyone, particularly the returnees. Most of the territorial claims that were previously occupied by the conquered nations belonged to the ancestors of the Ades Federation; the returnees are seen as chiefly invaders, and the Federation struggles back to reclaim the land.

c) Liliana is playing a risky bet to pledge feigning alliance to Lusicinia, above everyone else. She's playing her role convincingly, even if it means betraying her sister for real in order not to draw suspicion upon herself.
It was the first time Millia heard from Dio that Earth's Exile are controlled by a female borned from the Turan lineage, passing from mothers to their daughters.

Liliana wants for Milia to get stronger and become an effective leader on her own.
Liliana's serene smile on her face once receiving news that small vanship escaped from the Sylvius with Millia on board might suggest that she's hoping for Millia to make it through that predicament and find herself allies powerful and united to oppose the Federation.

Plainly put, Liliana and Luscinia pretty much are very knowledgeable about the Earth's Exiles. Luscinia has no need for another living Turan heir witnessing for himself that with Liliana around then Millia has no power, and, hence, she poses no threat to the Federation.
If Millia is to be assassinated, that's because Luscinia does not want for any other not-conquered faction to find about the keys to the Exiles lying dormant within the Turan female royal heirs.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer

I think it might be more of a temporary thing; from what Vincent said in the episode it sounds like the Exile is in constant use now bringing old airships over from the Prestar (he mentions most of their fleet still isn't present yet, he could've meant either near where the Sivilus was or on Earth in general, obviously I think it was the later, especially since the Exile can only hold two Silvana sized ships at a time) and Al probably needs to be near a docking area for the landing/take-off procedures, if not on the ship itself. Plus, I know we keep referencing the Travelers of the Hourglass manga but it's kinda hard to get around it, in less than six chapters we've already had two attempts to kidnap Al by the (white) Guild, everyone might have agreed that for the moment it would be a good idea to keep Al either way out of the way or closer to Anatoray's military just in case they try again.

Yeah, I think Vincent may have been ordered to protect her personally after those attempts.

As for why they aren't with her, maybe they've been given an assignment that might help Al in the long run if they accomplish it, otherwise at the moment I can't think of something specific yet that would split them up.

Originally Posted by pewpewpew

I fully agree. Also, I doubt Dio would be as outwardly carefree as he's been if Immelmann were dead.

This.

Originally Posted by azarhal

The frozen rocks is where Glacies live. It's the new target of Ades (after they get ride of the Silvius and the Sky Pirates). According to the chibi-Empress it used to be the original Ades Federation land, but considering how she broke down after doing that speech, it might be a figure of speech (aka they believe they own all the planet regardless if they once lived on those lands or not).

Ah, my bad, I'm sorry, I thought we were still on Gonia/Turan.

[durack]

Eh, come on.

Warship brought down by one gun shot is lazy writing, pure and simple. Forgivable given some great battles otherwise, but cringe-inducing anyway, at least for me.

Yeah, so Star Wars in 1977 did the same thing, Star Wars isn't exactly an example of good scriptwriting.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by durack

Eh, come on.

Warship brought down by one gun shot is lazy writing, pure and simple. Forgivable given some great battles otherwise, but cringe-inducing anyway, at least for me.

Yeah, so Star Wars in 1977 did the same thing, Star Wars isn't exactly an example of good scriptwriting.

The show has had its share of laughable and laudable writing segments. Unfortunately just about everything with Fam is laughably bad or presented in mind-numbingly unbelievable ways. When the rest of the cast appears, though, you have some of the best parts of this show showing themselves with great visual coordination, great battles, more robust characterization (being that they have had a season to already largely establish their characters) and actions.

I guess I'll turn this into a bit of a criticism on the show, not that I had intended to from the start:

I really don't know why they went about this show the way that they have. Many of the episodes centering on our main characters have been lackluster or, when compared to episodes about others or that climax on the actions of others, lacking in their ability to impress. There's just something hollow about Fam's character but I can't put my finger on it (and every other character becomes much more interesting because of it). Perhaps its her personality and the actions she takes (and somehow succeeds) that's simply not very convincing. By this point in the original Exile, iirc, our main characters had already undergone three or so tribulations (their family in the past, the war and Mad Thane fleet, and Al, and let's not forget getting the crap beaten out of them by the Guild). Conversely, Fam's just been succeeding on idiot balls and has yet to really experience any falls.