(L) Last Exile -Fam, The Silver Wing-

[stormwaltzing]

Originally Posted by imbehindyou

Spoiler for Episode 19 Mysterion & Luscinia:

How does Luscinia know the Mysterion to Grand Exile? Is it ever mentioned or implied in the series?

Spoiler for La la la:

Not as of yet, unless there was an infodrop/hint in this episode? But much like the Mysteria in the original series, perhaps it was passed down in a similar manner via certain families/bloodlines. Remember Luscinia and Alauda were Farahnaz' bodyguards whom she seemed to trust very well. How he knows isn't so far-fetched as it might seem considering his connections from ten years prior - or maybe after he became Premier he went looking for answers himself (remember Alauda finding the Guild key at the start of the series, they were still in the motions of carrying out their plans)

[Graveyard Duck]

Spoiler for Political fallout:

It's interesting that Dyan appears to have regrets about her assassination. Despite its ruining the peace treaty, it's actually a good thing for both sides of the conflict: For Luscinia, it gives him an excuse to proceed with his plan immediately. For those against him, it pushes him to the surface. After all, he pretty much told us that he was going to follow his plan anyway last episode in his discussion with Liliana.

Originally Posted by imbehindyou

Spoiler for Episode 19 Mysterion & Luscinia:

How does Luscinia know the Mysterion to Grand Exile? Is it ever mentioned or implied in the series?

Spoiler for Mysteria:

He recites the Grand Exile Mysteria at the end of episode 16. As an Earth Guild member, it's more believable that he knows the Mysteria for the Exile that was left on Earth than it is for him to know the Turan Mysteria.

An interesting observation: So far, the Last Exile's Mysteria is the only set that comes in a dialogue between the speaker and the Key. The others consist only of recitation by the speaker.

Originally Posted by stormwaltzing

Spoiler for Newest ep.:

Aside from those huge points, there was a lot of talking that we need translations for. I basically sat here screaming at my screen toward the end (and during the Dio Alauda duel, biases)

Spoiler for the duel:

It's an interesting place to squeeze in a bit of sentiment, with the cutaway to "Lucciola's seat" implying that his spirit helped Dio in the duel. Actually, I'd have preferred Al to finally do something for a change, as Dio initially assumed, or just have Dio show his badassness.

You know what the Silvius really needs? A squad of Guild warriors to defend against boarding actions and to pilot starfish fighters. Why can't Maestro Dio command such a squad?

[Angmartas]

Originally Posted by MeggieMay

Spoiler for Sara:

It does make me wonder though if Sara is a Maestro, then what does that mean about a Maestro like Dio? Is that implying something that maybe no one even in the show (Dio included) has figured out yet?

Spoiler for Dio, Exile keys and mysteria:

It doesn't necessarily mean anything for Dio. He was never meant to be a Maestro; the only reason he technically is one is Delphine purging the other houses and grabbing the title. The original Maestro family was House Hamilton, with Alvis designated to inherit her grandfather's title once she was born. Maybe the Maestro really are simply the Exile key lines (barring incidents like Delphine).

Dio's Prester is a special case regarding Exile keys themselves as well, since they had forgotten about their own Exile until Darius Eraclea decided to chase rumors - and even then, they still didn't really know what it was. We can't base anything on season 1's Guild, really. They had about as much information as we do.

Either Luscinia is like Darius and went info hunting with a vengeance based on what he remembered from his time as a "proper Guilder", or being of the house of the/an Earth Maestro, already knew the Mysteria and who the key was. The key can't recite them herself, so someone else has to know them. Without a great houses system, her bodyguards would be a logical choice.

[hiroshi5]

I just watched episode 18 (i.e. #18 excluding the 2 recap/filler episodes) and felt
motivated to stick my neck out and make some comments, because this episode contained more than the usual amount of silliness, which others haven't fully addressed...
If you're behind with your viewing please note that these comments contain some spoilers.

The Ades factions stop fighting just because the child-ruler Sara says so. That's just so unlikely! In real life, child-rulers have never had executive power, said power being entrusted to a Regent, etc, and for very sound political reasons. There's too much at stake for a child-ruler to be allowed to play about. I could go on, but just bear in mind that our Queen Victoria, even as an adult, didn't have the power to do anything big without the support of her ministers. And in more brutal regimes, the autocratic ruler and his/her supporting clique are bound together by mutual self-interest and self-preservation, so there is no chance of a child ruler being allowed to do his/her own thing. Like the current head of North Korea, simultaneously autocrat and puppet.

The script tries to paint Luscinia and Liliana in shades of grey, because their policy is to kill off the surplus population that the planet cannot support. In reality, "too many people for the resources to support" is an extremely elastic concept. Our hunter-gatherer distant ancestors would find our world unbelievably overpopulated, as such populations could not be sustained by the means they were familiar with. Over a hundred years ago, Malthus and others wrote that the world's population was growing beyond the capability of the world to support it. The world's population has vastly increased since then, but so has the supply of
food and other goods. Where famine exists, it is primarily caused by war (East Africa) or poltical factors (North Korea). It is alleged that even in the UK, some poor people are going hungry, but this is not caused by an absolute lack of food or resources, but by economic inequality.
As for using war to reduce the population, the 50,000,000 or so killed by the terrible WWII were soon made up by populaton growth. So even smashing everything up with a terrible war wouldn't work (a sure case of the cure being worse than the disease?)
And just in case you were wondering, a while ago somebody checked out the notion of shipping the surplus population out to Mars or space colonies, and concluded that ship-building and launching couldn't keep pace with population growth.
So how can a rising population be checked? The consensus is that economic security + contraception policies ought to do it.
In short, this part of the script is rubbish.


Then we have everybody celebrating and having a ball because the fighting has ended. A bit premature, one might think. In reality, wars, and especially civil wars, where large numbers of people have been killed, tend to leave a nasty after-taste. All isn't matey in Libya right now. Rancour persists for scores, or even hundreds of years (ask the Irish.)

And then Millia wanders around on her own and goes off with a couple of people into what turns out to be a rather compromising situation. Since she's head of what's left of Turan, should't her faction be a bit more careful? Then this sub-faction wants her to solve the Liliana problem by murdering her sister? What twaddle! They could achieve the result they need just by proclaiming Liliana an unfit ruler or non-person, and if they sincerely believe she has to be eliminated, only a bunch of imbeciles would employ the sister rather than a professional assassin. (I gasped with annoyance and disbelief at this scene!) And would the wily Luscinia, having got Millia in his clutches, ever release her from his "protection"? I don't think so!

Then in the final incident the assassin's behaviour looks a bit dramatically contrived. Shooting either Liliana or Luscinia, or both, would be a good result, so why stop firing after two shots and just stand there? In real life, gunmen (like the vile Moat here in the UK) have carrried on their rampage, re-loading and firing until they run out of ammunition or are stopped by superior force. (another example - IIRC the man who shot a Congresswoman in the USA emptied his gun and was able to run away, to be arrested later.)

Yes, it's just an anime, but so many credibility problems in one episode?
I anticipate that some readers will want to reply to this - hopefully in terms more
interesting than "the anime is perfect and you're so wrong"...

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

The Ades factions stop fighting just because the child-ruler Sara says so. That's just so unlikely!

The thing is, this isn't real-life. For many of the higher-ranking leaders of the Ades Federation (mainly the heads of the five main fleets) Sara isn't just the Empress, but also family, and Sara herself feels the same way (which was why she was so torn up about Sorush's death). Everything that they've done up to the civil war was, in one way or another, for her. So they'd be more inclined to listen to what she says, even though she IS also a ten-year-old girl.

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

The script tries to paint Luscinia and Liliana in shades of grey, because their policy is to kill off the surplus population that the planet cannot support.

What Luscinia think's is the truth doesn't necessarily mean it's the truth. Personally I think he's just throwing out justifications that seem logical at first, as a cover for his real motivations (likely just wipe the slate clean -- you can have peace when everyone else is dead, after all). Previous posters have already mentioned for example the fact that the land where Anatoray-Disith has occupied seems to have sat empty for years. Why didn't Ades expand to that area? Why didn't the Federation even go out and explore that area to begin with?

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

Then we have everybody celebrating and having a ball because the fighting has ended. A bit premature, one might think.

I don't know about you, but I felt some tension during the ball. It was like everyone was just pretending to be nice to each other, when in fact thing were still close to coming tumbling down (which was exactly what happens at the end).

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

And then Millia wanders around on her own and goes off with a couple of people into what turns out to be a rather compromising situation. Since she's head of what's left of Turan, should't her faction be a bit more careful?

Well the conspirators weren't exactly portrayed as rational to begin with. They saw Liliana as a threat and a disgrace, and they wanted her out of the way ASAP. And declare her unfit to rule? At this point in time Turan's 'government' consists of just Milia. What is she to do? Put out a public announcement condemning her sister? She doesn't have the political clout to even do so.

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

Then in the final incident the assassin's behaviour looks a bit dramatically contrived. Shooting either Liliana or Luscinia, or both, would be a good result, so why stop firing after two shots and just stand there?

It looked like the weapon used by Dian looks awfully similar to an old Derringer, which would fit with the late 19th to early-20th century feel of the setting (barring the flying ships and Guild tech of course). The derringer is an easily-concealed weapon that, at MOST, can fire two shots. As for the whole thing feeling contrived, I have a feeling that the whole thing was set up by Luscinia for maximum spectacle, since this week's episode shows that he doesn't NEED protection, and can dodge bullets just fine (he IS Guild, after all).

And yes, bringing up real-life examples from our own history doesn't really work at times, so don't even try. Take it from this fifteen-year veteran.

[MrTerrorist]

Ok, this was an exciting episode.

Spoiler for ep21:

So Sara is actually the Maestro of the Earth Guild and an Exile key as well, particularly the key to the Grand Exile at north Glacies. I did not see that coming. And it looks like Vasant and Kayvān are dead. So how can Fam and what remains of the alliance stop the Grand Exile?
I can't wait to watch.

[Joachim1167]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Ok, this was an exciting episode.

Spoiler for ep21:

So Sara is actually the Maestro of the Earth Guild and an Exile key as well, particularly the key to the Grand Exile at north Glacies. I did not see that coming. And it looks like Vasant and Kayvān are dead. So how can Fam and what remains of the alliance stop the Grand Exile?
I can't wait to watch.

Well, knowing Fam and company, it's gonna involve something incredibly heroic and absolutely insane.

[Myssa Rei]

Joachim1167: Not to mention bone-headedly stupid that everyone else would think it's suicidal... But it's just another day for Fam.

Speaking of which, I think I'll call it now: Fam will get herself in trouble, forcing Sadri to step in and protect her.

[Joachim1167]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Joachim1167: Not to mention bone-headedly stupid that everyone else would think it's suicidal... But it's just another day for Fam.

Speaking of which, I think I'll call it now: Fam will get herself in trouble, forcing Sadri to step in and protect her.

I didn't say Fam by herself. I said 'Fam and company' in response to MrTerrorist's post referencing 'Fam and what remains of the Alliance'. At this point, ANYONE thinking of taking on the Grand Exile would probably be considered stupid and suicidal.

Spoiler for speculation:

My guess that the end will run along the lines of S1 when Vincent and the joint Anatoray-Disith fleet threw themselves at the Exile tentacles to give Sophia that one shot at Delphine's flagship. This time it will be the remaining Alliance fleet (and possibly combined with an Anatoray 'nick-of-time' cavalry charge) that will run interference to give Fam the chance to rescue Sara and Millia to take down the Grand exile.

[TheKage]

Originally Posted by Angmartas

Spoiler for Dio, Exile keys and mysteria:

It doesn't necessarily mean anything for Dio. He was never meant to be a Maestro; the only reason he technically is one is Delphine purging the other houses and grabbing the title. The original Maestro family was House Hamilton, with Alvis designated to inherit her grandfather's title once she was born. Maybe the Maestro really are simply the Exile key lines (barring incidents like Delphine).

Dio's Prester is a special case regarding Exile keys themselves as well, since they had forgotten about their own Exile until Darius Eraclea decided to chase rumors - and even then, they still didn't really know what it was. We can't base anything on season 1's Guild, really. They had about as much information as we do.

Either Luscinia is like Darius and went info hunting with a vengeance based on what he remembered from his time as a "proper Guilder", or being of the house of the/an Earth Maestro, already knew the Mysteria and who the key was. The key can't recite them herself, so someone else has to know them. Without a great houses system, her bodyguards would be a logical choice.

I definitely agree with you.
I don't think we can take the Anatoray-Disith Prester's Guild as the norm. They clearly had issues with their history and Delphine took control as Maestro from the former Maestro James Hamilton (Alvis's grandfather). I wonder if it's possible that since Alvis's house carried the Key line, that others in the House of Hamilton were more connected with their advances in bioengineering that allowed them to create successful Guild members that were voted to be Maestro by the Guild Principals.

I'm honestly not surprised by the Augusta->Maestro happening.

[Jokun]

Ok, it's funny and annoying that the Silvius gets boarded, again, by those same pasty-faced assassins and by Aluada as well. You'd thought they've learned from the same experience before and made the necessary measures of that not happening again but I guess they never learn.

Also what does Dio and Alvis do at that crucial moment, plans on running away, again. They've been practically running for most part of the series and the writers want them to run away based on similar circumstances in these last few episodes?

[Panzerklein]

Originally Posted by Joachim1167

Well, knowing Fam and company, it's gonna involve something incredibly heroic and absolutely insane.

Like ram her Vespa to Exile and die in vain, right? .

[Ami-chan]

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

The Ades factions stop fighting just because the child-ruler Sara says so. That's just so unlikely! In real life, child-rulers have never had executive power, said power being entrusted to a Regent, etc, and for very sound political reasons. There's too much at stake for a child-ruler to be allowed to play about. I could go on, but just bear in mind that our Queen Victoria, even as an adult, didn't have the power to do anything big without the support of her ministers. And in more brutal regimes, the autocratic ruler and his/her supporting clique are bound together by mutual self-interest and self-preservation, so there is no chance of a child ruler being allowed to do his/her own thing. Like the current head of North Korea, simultaneously autocrat and puppet.

This situation is a bit different. Both factions are running off their crews' loyalties to the child queen and their country. The first side to show their "true" colors loses the support of his or her soldiers. Luscinia understands this and wants to make sure everyone sees that his head is on straight, just that he is aiming for the "shortest path to peace", as they put it. Also, Sara never technically ended the fighting -- it would have gone on regardless of her if the people in charge deemed it fit. Rather than obeying an order, the resulting truce was thanks to the generals and such honoring her will. Nobody who kills a queen -- a child one at that -- has a future in positions of influence within a military or a country, as they are painted as traitors and lose the public trust. As for your main point, do notice how Sara wasn't allowed to make any decisions by herself and how she always had a council around to help lead the country. It is just as you said, child rulers are put in their position early to learn from those around them until they are fit to rule by themselves.

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

The script tries to paint Luscinia and Liliana in shades of grey, because their policy is to kill off the surplus population that the planet cannot support. In reality, "too many people for the resources to support" is an extremely elastic concept. Our hunter-gatherer distant ancestors would find our world unbelievably overpopulated, as such populations could not be sustained by the means they were familiar with. Over a hundred years ago, Malthus and others wrote that the world's population was growing beyond the capability of the world to support it. The world's population has vastly increased since then, but so has the supply of food and other goods. Where famine exists, it is primarily caused by war (East Africa) or poltical factors (North Korea). It is alleged that even in the UK, some poor people are going hungry, but this is not caused by an absolute lack of food or resources, but by economic inequality.
As for using war to reduce the population, the 50,000,000 or so killed by the terrible WWII were soon made up by populaton growth. So even smashing everything up with a terrible war wouldn't work (a sure case of the cure being worse than the disease?)
And just in case you were wondering, a while ago somebody checked out the notion of shipping the surplus population out to Mars or space colonies, and concluded that ship-building and launching couldn't keep pace with population growth.
So how can a rising population be checked? The consensus is that economic security + contraception policies ought to do it.
In short, this part of the script is rubbish.

I don't know if you noticed, but the military facet of this plot pretty much mirrors the events of WW2. Hitler decided that there wasn't enough room, or Lebensraum as he put it, and started attacking everyone around him. As they took down country after country, they adopted these new peoples as slaves in their war efforts. Eventually, there was an allied effort large enough to challenge his movement because they believed his views were dumb and irrational. In the end, he kills himself and the Allies win.

Putting your socioeconomic views aside, I think you're misinterpreting their point. The whole idea wasn't to tell us that killing people to create room for the future population is okay. They weren't trying to put those two characters into an "Oh, I see. They're actually trying to save the world!" position. I think they wanted to reinforce that Luscinia and Liliana are indeed wrong, and are blindly pushing towards an end without considering the means. I guess you can consider that a gray area. But in no way was their volition justified. It's actually quite the contrary. The entire series, they've been painted as the villains, but we were always given some kind of hope that they may have goals that make all the deaths and suffering worth it. Think TTGL, the Spiral King was the villain the entire show. Until you see that he was protecting the humans from themselves. But even then, they chose freedom and decided to kick the universe's ass. Because that what we've been raised to think is right. Luscinia and Liliana are the villains who, in their minds, think they're doing the world a greater good. But they're alone and the protagonists in the this show will show them how wrong they are.

Whether or not it's viable for all the people of the world to be economically satisfied together has nothing to do with whether or not the script is rubbish. If that is the case, then the scripts for pretty much any show that happens to have misguided characters is rubbish. And it's not quite clear yet, either, that completely happiness is possible. Currently, the economic satisfaction of many countries is dependent on the lower economic status of all the other countries that support them. Also, the thing about economic inequality...is that it leads to fighting and war. Believe it or not, resources are limited.

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

Then we have everybody celebrating and having a ball because the fighting has ended. A bit premature, one might think. In reality, wars, and especially civil wars, where large numbers of people have been killed, tend to leave a nasty after-taste. All isn't matey in Libya right now. Rancour persists for scores, or even hundreds of years (ask the Irish.)

Haters gonna hate. Seriously, dude. If you were in a war for your country and watched friends and family die all around you. And then, even if it's just for a day, a truce was reached. You seriously think you'd keep your guns loaded and cocked and shoot anyone that looked at you wrong? These guy are happy because they don't have to kill their friends anymore and their life expectancies went higher than a week. Give them a break.

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

And then Millia wanders around on her own and goes off with a couple of people into what turns out to be a rather compromising situation. Since she's head of what's left of Turan, should't her faction be a bit more careful? Then this sub-faction wants her to solve the Liliana problem by murdering her sister? What twaddle! They could achieve the result they need just by proclaiming Liliana an unfit ruler or non-person, and if they sincerely believe she has to be eliminated, only a bunch of imbeciles would employ the sister rather than a professional assassin. (I gasped with annoyance and disbelief at this scene!) And would the wily Luscinia, having got Millia in his clutches, ever release her from his "protection"? I don't think so!

And they have done this before. The problem being, it requires other countries to renounce her as the ruler for her kingdom. This isn't a republic or a democracy, it is a monarchy. Leadership over these countries is passed down by lineage. You can't just say "She's not our Queen anymore", you're pretty much at her mercy unless you're willing to start a civil war. And look what had just transpired, a civil war. In this situation, it is very much expected that there are factions out there that want her dead. It takes away any authority she has immediately. Look at Millia. Liliana had already taken away her position as Princess for the country of Turan, but she just went into exile and kept her position anyway because others around the world didn't care what Liliana said. This is a monarchy. No matter what others say, you are royalty by blood. Even if you "lose" your position for a while, you can retake that position and succeed the throne when your other family members have died or passed away.

And why would Luscinia let her go? Because although he is misguided and very much a villain, she does not matter to him. He has a goal, and he has the means (Liliana and her Exile), another princess out there can't stop him now (unless Liliana dies *awkward*). I'm sure now he wishes he kept Millia around while he could, but that's besides the point. He brought her because her sister wanted to see her, he let her go because her sister wanted her to get back home safely. That is that. There is wrong, and there is pure evil. The latter they are not. It goes back to one of your earlier points. They are in no gray area, because they are wrong and view the world in a black and white scenario. But that does not mean they are the devil incarnate. Also, Liscinia isn't in a position to take Millia hostage. Alvias is still alive and managed to escape thanks to Dio. Also, he still has to be careful and make sure he keeps his position in the military without losing the faith of Sara. Other Exiles still exist and could very well stand in his path.

I feel like most of your points are naive, they would stand strong in a perfect world. But unfortunately, neither world -- that of the Last Exile or ours -- is perfect. Also, you're confusing what the script is saying with views they are trying to push. They are not saying killing entire countries and instilling population control with your military is the right thing to do. But they did decide to have it as a main point in the plot to instill thought and emotion within their viewers. They were successful. This by no means makes the script rubbish, and this adheres to many of your other points. The script may very well be rubbish, but not for the reasons you chose. Instead, it seems you're more angry that these characters don't agree with your political or socioeconomic view points and are blaming it on a "bad script".

[trowapeter]

Well here's my guess on the nxt episode,

Millia assumed command of Silvius as the flagship of Turan fleet and possibly 5th fleet now that their general is dead.

And I was wondering if its possible that Fam was another key and granddaughter to General Sadri.

The "Exile" Luscinia is in might be created by Augusta's ancestor provided its hidden in the world their in and can only be activated by Augusta descendant.The other 5 "Exile" however were created by someone else/Augusta but the key were given to 5 capable ppl to allow them to escape the "calamity" that happened long ago?

There's something that make me thinking,there's 5 "Exile" and another 1 that belong to Glacies that was destroyed and until now there's only 2 key that are known.And where is Anatoray Empress Sophia gone to?

[Julio C]

Originally Posted by trowapeter

Well here's my guess on the nxt episode,

Millia assumed command of Silvius as the flagship of Turan fleet and possibly 5th fleet now that their general is dead.

And I was wondering if its possible that Fam was another key and granddaughter to General Sadri.

The "Exile" Luscinia is in might be created by Augusta's ancestor provided its hidden in the world their in and can only be activated by Augusta descendant.The other 5 "Exile" however were created by someone else/Augusta but the key were given to 5 capable ppl to allow them to escape the "calamity" that happened long ago?

There's something that make me thinking,there's 5 "Exile" and another 1 that belong to Glacies that was destroyed and until now there's only 2 key that are known.And where is Anatoray Empress Sophia gone to?

There are 6 Exiles (as shown as six crescent moons) plus the Last Exile and Grand Exile just to be clear. Glacies got a hold of some of the Exile tech, but I'm not sure if this is yet another one in addition to the other ones already. The key to that Glacien Exile is dead since Alvis said she couldn't hear Glacies anymore.

However, one of the other Exiles may yet belong to Glacies with somebody else as the key. Of course, this is just me speculating so who knows.

Fam could be another to key to Exile cause her medallion hints that she might be.

As for Empress Sophia, she is coming back at some point just like Vincent said she would. I just hope she brings the Silvanna to the battlefield and gives Sadri a heart attack cause there's two of them now.

[MeggieMay]

Originally Posted by Julio C

There are 6 Exiles (as shown as six crescent moons) plus the Last Exile and Grand Exile just to be clear. Glacies got a hold of some of the Exile tech, but I'm not sure if this is yet another one in addition to the other ones already. The key to that Glacien Exile is dead since Alvis said she couldn't hear Glacies anymore.

It wasn't the Key that was dead (though it is kind of obvious it is - none of the "old men" we saw survived that bombardment) but the actual Exile that was on protecting the Glacians. Thing is, the Key could have/should have jumped to another person, so if Glacias Exile on the ground isn't really dead (we know Alvis couldn't hear it anymore but it can't be 100% ruled out it isn't dead) the Key could still be alive in a new person. That said, you've brought up a good point, in that we aren't 100% sure that what we saw on the ground was the Glacias Exile or something else. We know that the Key to it wasn't a female but a male so I'm not sure if the show was trying to set up a plot twist or what but it is worth remembering, IMO at least, in case a plot twist, like another Glacias Exile, shows up.

As for Empress Sophia, she is coming back at some point just like Vincent said she would. I just hope she brings the Silvanna to the battlefield and gives Sadri a heart attack cause there's two of them now.

About Sadri

Spoiler:

Actually I'm not sure Sadri's even on Luscinia's side anymore. I have to see this weeks episode tomorrow but going off the spoilers Lucisnia doesn't seem to care who lives or dies if he killed Kayvān and almost killed Sadri doing that and Luscina was supposedly aiming for Orang! Sadri's one of the smarter, if not the smartest General in the show. He's not going to take kindly to what happened there or forget that Luscnia killed a fellow General who was his supporter. He also may not take kindly to Luscinia just grabbing Sara. As another poster mentioned, the Triple Rook episode title could be alluding to Sadri changing sides.

Either way, I think Sadri knows a lot more about what is going on and that whatever the original plan was Luscinia is probably not following it. It sounds like Luscinia doesn't really care about the Ades's people any more, either. I'm not sure he ever did - he said he wanted to protect Sara and that doesn't mean any one else but he and Sara. While I think he wanted Aluada as well (but Dio seems to have fixed that issue ) and may have planned on adding Lilliana to the group, no one else has to live under that scenario. I really do think Luscinia hates all "people" and most of what he's been spouting throughout the series is just justifications for what he's been doing. The only slack I'd give Luscinia is I'm not sure he consciously knows that's why he's doing it himself. He may believe, or half believe, what he's been saying but through his actions he's shown he really doesn't care if anyone lives an might actually want everyone else dead so he can start over again. I'm not sure he ever intended to bring Sadri with them but instead was more likely just using the General to get what he wanted.

[encia]

Originally Posted by trowapeter

Well here's my guess on the nxt episode,

Millia assumed command of Silvius as the flagship of Turan fleet and possibly 5th fleet now that their general is dead.

Millia is wearing Anatoray's black officer uniform with appropriate rank stripes i.e. She's commanding Silvius on behalf of Anatoray's navy.

The only creditable military power to fight Luscinia's Grand Exile is the people from United Kingdom of Anatoray-Disith.

Originally Posted by Joachim1167

I didn't say Fam by herself. I said 'Fam and company' in response to MrTerrorist's post referencing 'Fam and what remains of the Alliance'. At this point, ANYONE thinking of taking on the Grand Exile would probably be considered stupid and suicidal.

If the Guild has designed the Grand Exile, then it may have similar weakness as the Guild battleship i.e. it's defence systems not designed against small fighters.

Both the Guild Battleship and Grand Exile seems to have similar weapons topology i.e. forward facing weapons array against slow large enemy design.



Typical sci-fi large particle beam design usually has weaknesses against fast moving small fighters.

It's not like Star Trek's Starfleet anti-capital level particle beam array that can double as an anti-small fighter weapon i.e. the ability divide the large particle beam's power into multiple smaller particle beams.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by Ami-chan

Spoiler for length:

This situation is a bit different. Both factions are running off their crews' loyalties to the child queen and their country. The first side to show their "true" colors loses the support of his or her soldiers. Luscinia understands this and wants to make sure everyone sees that his head is on straight, just that he is aiming for the "shortest path to peace", as they put it. Also, Sara never technically ended the fighting -- it would have gone on regardless of her if the people in charge deemed it fit. Rather than obeying an order, the resulting truce was thanks to the generals and such honoring her will. Nobody who kills a queen -- a child one at that -- has a future in positions of influence within a military or a country, as they are painted as traitors and lose the public trust. As for your main point, do notice how Sara wasn't allowed to make any decisions by herself and how she always had a council around to help lead the country. It is just as you said, child rulers are put in their position early to learn from those around them until they are fit to rule by themselves.



I don't know if you noticed, but the military facet of this plot pretty much mirrors the events of WW2. Hitler decided that there wasn't enough room, or Lebensraum as he put it, and started attacking everyone around him. As they took down country after country, they adopted these new peoples as slaves in their war efforts. Eventually, there was an allied effort large enough to challenge his movement because they believed his views were dumb and irrational. In the end, he kills himself and the Allies win.

Putting your socioeconomic views aside, I think you're misinterpreting their point. The whole idea wasn't to tell us that killing people to create room for the future population is okay. They weren't trying to put those two characters into an "Oh, I see. They're actually trying to save the world!" position. I think they wanted to reinforce that Luscinia and Liliana are indeed wrong, and are blindly pushing towards an end without considering the means. I guess you can consider that a gray area. But in no way was their volition justified. It's actually quite the contrary. The entire series, they've been painted as the villains, but we were always given some kind of hope that they may have goals that make all the deaths and suffering worth it. Think TTGL, the Spiral King was the villain the entire show. Until you see that he was protecting the humans from themselves. But even then, they chose freedom and decided to kick the universe's ass. Because that what we've been raised to think is right. Luscinia and Liliana are the villains who, in their minds, think they're doing the world a greater good. But they're alone and the protagonists in the this show will show them how wrong they are.

Whether or not it's viable for all the people of the world to be economically satisfied together has nothing to do with whether or not the script is rubbish. If that is the case, then the scripts for pretty much any show that happens to have misguided characters is rubbish. And it's not quite clear yet, either, that completely happiness is possible. Currently, the economic satisfaction of many countries is dependent on the lower economic status of all the other countries that support them. Also, the thing about economic inequality...is that it leads to fighting and war. Believe it or not, resources are limited.

Haters gonna hate. Seriously, dude. If you were in a war for your country and watched friends and family die all around you. And then, even if it's just for a day, a truce was reached. You seriously think you'd keep your guns loaded and cocked and shoot anyone that looked at you wrong? These guy are happy because they don't have to kill their friends anymore and their life expectancies went higher than a week. Give them a break.

And they have done this before. The problem being, it requires other countries to renounce her as the ruler for her kingdom. This isn't a republic or a democracy, it is a monarchy. Leadership over these countries is passed down by lineage. You can't just say "She's not our Queen anymore", you're pretty much at her mercy unless you're willing to start a civil war. And look what had just transpired, a civil war. In this situation, it is very much expected that there are factions out there that want her dead. It takes away any authority she has immediately. Look at Millia. Liliana had already taken away her position as Princess for the country of Turan, but she just went into exile and kept her position anyway because others around the world didn't care what Liliana said. This is a monarchy. No matter what others say, you are royalty by blood. Even if you "lose" your position for a while, you can retake that position and succeed the throne when your other family members have died or passed away.

And why would Luscinia let her go? Because although he is misguided and very much a villain, she does not matter to him. He has a goal, and he has the means (Liliana and her Exile), another princess out there can't stop him now (unless Liliana dies *awkward*). I'm sure now he wishes he kept Millia around while he could, but that's besides the point. He brought her because her sister wanted to see her, he let her go because her sister wanted her to get back home safely. That is that. There is wrong, and there is pure evil. The latter they are not. It goes back to one of your earlier points. They are in no gray area, because they are wrong and view the world in a black and white scenario. But that does not mean they are the devil incarnate. Also, Liscinia isn't in a position to take Millia hostage. Alvias is still alive and managed to escape thanks to Dio. Also, he still has to be careful and make sure he keeps his position in the military without losing the faith of Sara. Other Exiles still exist and could very well stand in his path.

I feel like most of your points are naive, they would stand strong in a perfect world. But unfortunately, neither world -- that of the Last Exile or ours -- is perfect. Also, you're confusing what the script is saying with views they are trying to push. They are not saying killing entire countries and instilling population control with your military is the right thing to do. But they did decide to have it as a main point in the plot to instill thought and emotion within their viewers. They were successful. This by no means makes the script rubbish, and this adheres to many of your other points. The script may very well be rubbish, but not for the reasons you chose. Instead, it seems you're more angry that these characters don't agree with your political or socioeconomic view points and are blaming it on a "bad script".

This was a completely fantastic post.

Originally Posted by Joachim1167

Well, knowing Fam and company, it's gonna involve something incredibly heroic and absolutely insane.

Originally Posted by Joachim1167

I didn't say Fam by herself. I said 'Fam and company' in response to MrTerrorist's post referencing 'Fam and what remains of the Alliance'. At this point, ANYONE thinking of taking on the Grand Exile would probably be considered stupid and suicidal.

Spoiler for speculation:

My guess that the end will run along the lines of S1 when Vincent and the joint Anatoray-Disith fleet threw themselves at the Exile tentacles to give Sophia that one shot at Delphine's flagship. This time it will be the remaining Alliance fleet (and possibly combined with an Anatoray 'nick-of-time' cavalry charge) that will run interference to give Fam the chance to rescue Sara and Millia to take down the Grand exile.

Spoiler for speculation:

As encia said too, it's certainly well set up for them to be needed. Can't wait to see what Fam's gotta do. Also, it would be a nice (still surprise enough) payoff with the extra mention they got this ep, with the Anatoray-Disith ships joining in to support Fam and company. Also it'd be really cool to see those S1 Anatoray and Disith ships in the sky again after all this time and together with S2 ships like it felt seeing the Silvius and Urbanus out there.

I'll definitely fangasm if Sophia properly brings out the Silvana and we get to see both the Silvius and Silvana out there, daamn. I don't know how likely but I'll admit I'm also still kind of expecting for Claus and Lavie to make a second appearance and still show up and be needed to add even more flyers with Tatiana and Alister getting back out there.

I'd also call Fam's moves something insanely gutsy rather than insane as Fam's gutsy moves are usually pretty thought out rather than crazy, just things you'd need incredible guts or nerves of steel to pull off, like getting that close to the Ansher or flying into the Impetus, etc. Despite how crazy the idea sounds she usually didn't do them as blindly you might think, for example she knew and double-checked Gisey was confident she had general knowledge of the internal structure of capital class Federation battleships/large-size Claudia powered vessels (not surprising from Gisey, and likely part of their training/studies and all the ships the pirates have dismantled over the years, and well written in that they knew the general layout of the necessarily similar parts like around the Claudia system but still ended up in a general passageway as the ship is a newer and special model) before flying inside the Impetus, it wasn't a completely blind move), and as part of her training she's clearly studied the layout of Federation battleships like the Ansher.

Originally Posted by Graveyard Duck

Spoiler for Mysteria:

He recites the Grand Exile Mysteria at the end of episode 16. As an Earth Guild member, it's more believable that he knows the Mysteria for the Exile that was left on Earth than it is for him to know the Turan Mysteria.

An interesting observation: So far, the Last Exile's Mysteria is the only set that comes in a dialogue between the speaker and the Key. The others consist only of recitation by the speaker.

Spoiler:

You know what the Silvius really needs? A squad of Guild warriors to defend against boarding actions and to pilot starfish fighters. Why can't Maestro Dio command such a squad?

Spoiler:

Yeah.
Seems sensible that he'd have had easier access to knowledge about the Grand Exile as an Earth Guilder. And while I guess it's possible they may still detail precisely how he came to learn Turan's Mysterion and Key, they did mention that everyone back in ep 3 at the general's meeting was genuinely surprised that they'd learned the identity of Turan's Exile key in the first place in order to use Turan's Exile against them so I think it's good that they've at least given us something on that scale in that it at least heavily hints at and narrows down how he got access to that information.

Yeah, I wonder if this ties into the differences we've seen between these and Last Exile's Exile, in addition to perhaps that one being the latest model as well as the last to return to Earth.

Yeah, that needs to be the next addition, c'mon Dio.

[DangerMouse]

Don't like double-posting but unrelated to previous post.

Originally Posted by encia

If the Guild has designed the Grand Exile, then it may have similar weakness as the Guild battleship i.e. it's defence systems not designed against small fighters.

Both the Guild Battleship and Grand Exile seems to have similar weapons topology i.e. present forward weapons array against slow large enemy design.



Typical sci-fi large particle beam design ussualy has weaknesses against fast moving small fighters.

It's not like Star Trek's Starfleet anti-capital level particle beam array that can double as an anti-small fighter weapon i.e. the ability divide the large particle beam's power into multiple smaller particle beams.

Agreed.

Also, thanks for that I needed the refresher.

[hiroshi5]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

And yes, bringing up real-life examples from our own history doesn't really work at times, so don't even try. Take it from this fifteen-year veteran.

The setup positively invites comparison with Western Europe in our world about a hundred years ago. So if comparisons are made, you shouldn't complain.