AnimeSuki Forums

Keroko · 2009-12-28, 16:52

Yeah, but we never got to see that kind Precia. Well... maybe for two seconds. So people still hate her because they've never seen that Precia, nor what happened to make her situation understandable.

RadiantBeam · 2009-12-28, 16:54

....

Huh. I must be weird, because I never really hated Precia. It was pretty easy for me to imagine what must have happened to her to make her how she was, so I actually felt some sympathy for her and how she became that way.

Demi. · 2009-12-28, 17:02

She became crazy, so it skewed her perception of right and wrong.

TheShinySword · 2009-12-28, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

....

Huh. I must be weird, because I never really hated Precia. It was pretty easy for me to imagine what must have happened to her to make her how she was, so I actually felt some sympathy for her and how she became that way.

Poor thing her life really sucked :,( I felt the same way about Precia... and Jail too.

RadiantBeam · 2009-12-28, 17:03

Well, I think it's more detailed than 'she went crazy'... obviously from Fate's flashbacks, while she wasn't the best mother, she was still nowhere near as abusive as she was when MGLN started. So it seems like it was a gradual process.

Nina.Wolken · 2009-12-28, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Wasn't this already explained in the first season, though? I was always under the impression that Precia was dear to Fate because she had Alicia's memories of her as a kind, loving mother, which she mistook for her own memories, and she went so far for her because she wanted Precia to go back to how she 'remembered' her being.

Oh sure we knew, because we had been told by Fate that she was her precious mother that she had to save. But even knowing it, I didn't felt too much compassion for Precia, nor did most of the fans it seems. All the nice talk and some short flashbacks didn't compensate for the repeated abuse and the craziness.
We just didn't have enough elements at the time to make her likable and that's precisely what the Movie (and the manga) should try to correct through all the backstory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Yeah, but we never got to see that kind Precia. Well... maybe for two seconds. So people still hate her because they've never seen that Precia, nor what happened to make her situation understandable.

I've to say that thanks to the movie manga, I find her story much more touching. The change in her personality is rather well done and knowing the issue of that all makes me actually a bit ... sad for her ^^'.

Nya~n · 2009-12-28, 17:20

That'll be viewer's bias, i say. See Fate, like her; see her getting tortured by Precia, hate Precia.

It's not hard to connect with Precia. A loving mother who lost her beloved child, and losing it, betting everything she has to bring her back... Only to find that the new "Alicia" is nothing but a cheap imitation in her eyes, compared to the Alicia she oncehad(probably because she herself KNOWS that it's a fake, and the stigma is there). And with the conclusion that this new useless mutt is a fake, she'd have to use this worthless clone as a tool to get her what she needs to use a method which she thinks can bring back her little baby back.

Precia needs some love too, when you look at it from her point of view. She's just a mother who loves her daughter so much that her death broke her in mind and spirit, and these warped love drove her to do anything and everything to get back what she lost. When you look at it, she's kinda like Ed and Al from Fullmetal Alchemist. They believed that they had the means to bring a loved one back to life, and made sacrifices attempting to achieve that.

Demi. · 2009-12-28, 17:27

Sympathizing with some one who tortures and brings misfortune to others isn't my thing.

Hopefully the movie remedies that so I can like her to some extent. Still, she pretty much lost her mind, and only rage was driving her at that point. Deep down, I'm sure she knew there was no way to revive Alicia.

Was it ever explained why Alicia died?

TheShinySword · 2009-12-28, 17:28

It isn't exactly fair to put it like that ^^;; that turns percia from a well done villian to a poorly done one.

Demi. · 2009-12-28, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShinySword

It isn't exactly fair to put it like that ^^;; that turns percia from a well done villian to a poorly done one.

Were you replying to me?

I'm just saying why I don't sympathize with her, not whether or not she's a well done villain. More often than not, I don't sympathize with the villain because I don't approve of the ways they use to achieve their goal.

Nya~n · 2009-12-28, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demi.

Deep down, I'm sure she knew there was no way to revive Alicia.

she probably did know. But she loved her daughter a lot, and that says a lot in itself. There was this book i read where a mother sought to save her child from war. she was convinced that some way or other, she could get him out(even if it meant killing the family who gave her a life), but that's the thing - she only thought of the goal, and not HOW to do it.

What I'm trying to say here is that a parent's blind love brings them to do stupid things, but to them, all that matters it's that the chance to get their child back. Precia may have done crazy and (subjectively) evil things to achieve her goal, but all she wanted was to get back her real daughter, her dear baby Alicia back, even if it's just for a moment.

Keroko · 2009-12-28, 17:47

More often than not you're not supposed to sympathize with the villain anyway. Nanoha's more of an exception to the rule.

In a way, Precia is what the Wolkenritter could have been had they not been adamant on not killing for Hayate's sake. Both of them wanted to save someone they love with all their heart. Precia just crossed a threshold when she didn't care how many people died in the process.

Demi. · 2009-12-28, 17:51

@Nya

That's true, but she was still very, very cruel. In her mind, she probably thought it was the right choice. It's just that...In my mind, she's torturing a young girl for the sake of what, exactly? Is beating Fate going to aid in getting Alicia back? Fate would have done almost anything for her, she didn't have to use torture to get her words across. I'm all for doing anything to revive the one you love (even if technically, It's not possible), but rather than letting Fate do her bidding, she made her do her bidding, while using Fate as a frustration device. She lost sight of her only goal and made other people suffer to have some sense of satisfaction.

^And that is my opinion. But It's why I can't sympathize with her. Even if she was a pretty well established villain, it doesn't mean I should like her for her actions.

Nya~n · 2009-12-28, 18:17

Nope, no one would like her for doing it. But I do sympathise with her. Like I said, she was slightly off her rocker after Alicia. Made her funny. And since Fate was merely a useless attempt to bring back her beloved Alicia, she was nothing more than a tool now. A tool that wasn't working as fast as she should be, might i point out. I mean, really, it's just like whipping a horse to make it gallop faster.

You could throw in the human rights argument thing, but you'd be arguing with someone who thinks that that the "it's okay to put down animals just because they're animals" against "ZOMG BUT THEY'RE HUMANS! Think about human rights!" argument as humanity getting to carried away with our homo homo sapiens biggotry.

To Precia, Fate was really nothing more than a stalling car that you had kick and stuff to get it working.

Noe · 2009-12-28, 18:22

I, for one, can't ever tolerate Precia's malicious actions towards Fate in the first season. She made a very fatal mistake - utilizing Fate as a scapegoat to escape from her misery and sorrow. Yet at the same time I can't bring myself to loathe Precia, maybe evoke a slight feeling of empathy but that's it. The main reason is that she created Fate and she was downright psychotic ever since she lost Alicia. Fate loved her mother very dearly. If only Precia could have realized that no matter what amount of castigation or affliction that was dealt to Fate, it couldn't bring back Alicia from the dead. I won't ever forget Fate's tragic past because it symbolizes the adversity that Fate had experienced, endured, and finally triumphed over, shining with the utmost of brilliance. As a result of all that, Fate transformed into a wonderful character in the aftermath. Precia was both a stepping stone and a thorn into what made Fate captivating and entrancing. I'm also highly interested in who the biological father is.

p.s...Nina.Wolken should join #Feitoism @ irc.rizon.net! <3

Nya~n · 2009-12-28, 18:25

Fate: Who's my father...?

Scaglietti: Who yo daddy? I yo daddy, Fate. I created you.

This should probably go under One-of-Those-Things-That's-Too-Minor-to-Mention-or-Clarify-because-the-Crazy-Whippin'-Mother-Takes-Up-the-Spotlight.

Demi. · 2009-12-28, 18:33

-Nya~n

Although that was was Fate was to Precia, it still shouldn't matter to the spectator. I mean, even if Fate wasn't a clone at all, and Precia was torturing some human girl she warped from off the street, and considered her nothing more than a tool. It's just as wrong as what she was doing to Fate, imo. Fate had feelings, and was quite smart. So she was hurting a intelligent being that was capable of suffering to the fullest extent. To Precia, "that's all she was" to the viewer, (me) she's more than that. Like I said, to Precia it may of been the right choice, but those choices are what lead me to lose sympathy for her.

Well this is all subjectivity, but even though I'm clearly biased towards Fate, there is no character I would approve she do that to.

But I digress, just another case of difference in opinion.

Keroko · 2009-12-28, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demi.

there is no character I would approve she do that to.

Quattro, maybe?

Sheba · 2009-12-28, 18:40

I never had any sympathy for Precia. Her excuse is like that bad guy's "Well, his father ignored him and his mother did not hug him." The movie is not going to change it. Fate should get over it.

Alavon · 2009-12-28, 18:40

Quote:

I'm also highly interested in who the biological father is.

I think it was a one-night stand with a co-worker....

2009-12-28, 17:02	Link #1283
Demi. Ass connoisseur Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Florida Age: 37	She became crazy, so it skewed her perception of right and wrong. __________________

2009-12-28, 17:20	Link #1287
Nya~n umbrella moe~♥ Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: huh wha-?	That'll be viewer's bias, i say. See Fate, like her; see her getting tortured by Precia, hate Precia. It's not hard to connect with Precia. A loving mother who lost her beloved child, and losing it, betting everything she has to bring her back... Only to find that the new "Alicia" is nothing but a cheap imitation in her eyes, compared to the Alicia she oncehad(probably because she herself KNOWS that it's a fake, and the stigma is there). And with the conclusion that this new useless mutt is a fake, she'd have to use this worthless clone as a tool to get her what she needs to use a method which she thinks can bring back her little baby back. Precia needs some love too, when you look at it from her point of view. She's just a mother who loves her daughter so much that her death broke her in mind and spirit, and these warped love drove her to do anything and everything to get back what she lost. When you look at it, she's kinda like Ed and Al from Fullmetal Alchemist. They believed that they had the means to bring a loved one back to life, and made sacrifices attempting to achieve that. __________________

2009-12-28, 17:27	Link #1288
Demi. Ass connoisseur Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Florida Age: 37	Sympathizing with some one who tortures and brings misfortune to others isn't my thing. Hopefully the movie remedies that so I can like her to some extent. Still, she pretty much lost her mind, and only rage was driving her at that point. Deep down, I'm sure she knew there was no way to revive Alicia. Was it ever explained why Alicia died? __________________

2009-12-28, 17:51	Link #1293
Demi. Ass connoisseur Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Florida Age: 37	@Nya That's true, but she was still very, very cruel. In her mind, she probably thought it was the right choice. It's just that...In my mind, she's torturing a young girl for the sake of what, exactly? Is beating Fate going to aid in getting Alicia back? Fate would have done almost anything for her, she didn't have to use torture to get her words across. I'm all for doing anything to revive the one you love (even if technically, It's not possible), but rather than letting Fate do her bidding, she made her do her bidding, while using Fate as a frustration device. She lost sight of her only goal and made other people suffer to have some sense of satisfaction. ^And that is my opinion. But It's why I can't sympathize with her. Even if she was a pretty well established villain, it doesn't mean I should like her for her actions. __________________

2009-12-28, 18:17	Link #1294
Nya~n umbrella moe~♥ Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: huh wha-?	Nope, no one would like her for doing it. But I do sympathise with her. Like I said, she was slightly off her rocker after Alicia. Made her funny. And since Fate was merely a useless attempt to bring back her beloved Alicia, she was nothing more than a tool now. A tool that wasn't working as fast as she should be, might i point out. I mean, really, it's just like whipping a horse to make it gallop faster. You could throw in the human rights argument thing, but you'd be arguing with someone who thinks that that the "it's okay to put down animals just because they're animals" against "ZOMG BUT THEY'RE HUMANS! Think about human rights!" argument as humanity getting to carried away with our homo homo sapiens biggotry. To Precia, Fate was really nothing more than a stalling car that you had kick and stuff to get it working. __________________

2009-12-28, 16:52	Link #1281
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Yeah, but we never got to see that kind Precia. Well... maybe for two seconds. So people still hate her because they've never seen that Precia, nor what happened to make her situation understandable.

2009-12-28, 17:28	Link #1289
TheShinySword Master of the Shiny Crack Author Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: In a cave	It isn't exactly fair to put it like that ^^;; that turns percia from a well done villian to a poorly done one.

2009-12-28, 17:47	Link #1292
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	More often than not you're not supposed to sympathize with the villain anyway. Nanoha's more of an exception to the rule. In a way, Precia is what the Wolkenritter could have been had they not been adamant on not killing for Hayate's sake. Both of them wanted to save someone they love with all their heart. Precia just crossed a threshold when she didn't care how many people died in the process.

2009-12-28, 18:22	Link #1295
Noe HARDCORE Fate addict™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fate's futon ofc Age: 31	I, for one, can't ever tolerate Precia's malicious actions towards Fate in the first season. She made a very fatal mistake - utilizing Fate as a scapegoat to escape from her misery and sorrow. Yet at the same time I can't bring myself to loathe Precia, maybe evoke a slight feeling of empathy but that's it. The main reason is that she created Fate and she was downright psychotic ever since she lost Alicia. Fate loved her mother very dearly. If only Precia could have realized that no matter what amount of castigation or affliction that was dealt to Fate, it couldn't bring back Alicia from the dead. I won't ever forget Fate's tragic past because it symbolizes the adversity that Fate had experienced, endured, and finally triumphed over, shining with the utmost of brilliance. As a result of all that, Fate transformed into a wonderful character in the aftermath. Precia was both a stepping stone and a thorn into what made Fate captivating and entrancing. I'm also highly interested in who the biological father is. p.s...Nina.Wolken should join #Feitoism @ irc.rizon.net! <3 __________________ ALL HAIL FATE T. HARLAOWN! #Feitoism @ irc.rizon.net to revere, share, and cherish Fate Testarossa Harlaown. My blog

2009-12-28, 18:25	Link #1296
Nya~n umbrella moe~♥ Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: huh wha-?	Fate: Who's my father...? Scaglietti: Who yo daddy? I yo daddy, Fate. I created you. This should probably go under One-of-Those-Things-That's-Too-Minor-to-Mention-or-Clarify-because-the-Crazy-Whippin'-Mother-Takes-Up-the-Spotlight. __________________

2009-12-28, 18:33	Link #1297
Demi. Ass connoisseur Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Florida Age: 37	-Nya~n Although that was was Fate was to Precia, it still shouldn't matter to the spectator. I mean, even if Fate wasn't a clone at all, and Precia was torturing some human girl she warped from off the street, and considered her nothing more than a tool. It's just as wrong as what she was doing to Fate, imo. Fate had feelings, and was quite smart. So she was hurting a intelligent being that was capable of suffering to the fullest extent. To Precia, "that's all she was" to the viewer, (me) she's more than that. Like I said, to Precia it may of been the right choice, but those choices are what lead me to lose sympathy for her. Well this is all subjectivity, but even though I'm clearly biased towards Fate, there is no character I would approve she do that to. But I digress, just another case of difference in opinion. __________________

2009-12-28, 18:40	Link #1299
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	I never had any sympathy for Precia. Her excuse is like that bad guy's "Well, his father ignored him and his mother did not hug him." The movie is not going to change it. Fate should get over it.