Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Rava

That's a result of Mayumi hypothesizing he's an Extra because he's familiar with what Extras are, though. That doesn't make him an actual Extra, like Suzune (because of her bloodline) or Nakura, and none of the Yotsuba actually refer to him as an Extra.

And if he WAS an Extra, Tatsuya wouldn't be referring to his number being stripped in the Yokohama chapters as if it could still happen.

He's pretty much an Extra though, because as things currently stand, he will never, ever be Yotsuba Tatsuya. He will die a Shiba, and the Shibas will die out with him.

[Lucarion]

OK, for lack of another topic, let's have some fun:

Let's imagine the Mahouka characters in a Game of Thrones-like setting.

Anyone up for it?

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Rasen

He's pretty much an Extra though, because as things currently stand, he will never, ever be Yotsuba Tatsuya. He will die a Shiba, and the Shibas will die out with him.

Never estimate the power of desperation..... The Yotsuba needs Tatsuya....Sure, their pride would deny it but the fact remains that if they make Tatsuya an enemy, they will have a nuclear warhead aim at them.

Maya won't allow her clan to be wiped out due to pride.

Miyuki won't let go of Tatsuya.

For now, he is a Shiba.

But when necessity comes knocking, circumstances would make Shiba Tatsuya to Yotsuba Tatsuya.

Also, they would give Tatsuya the name Yotsuba sooner or later, either because Miyuki wills it or because they need additional chains to bind Tatsuya to the Yotsuba.....

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

OK, for lack of another topic, let's have some fun:

Let's imagine the Mahouka characters in a Game of Thrones-like setting.

Anyone up for it?

Miyuki would be the idealistic Princess candidate to the throne with many suitors.

Tatsuya would be the disowned, half-brother of hers, with God-like fighting and political skill and unhealthy devotion to Miyuki. Silver Trident would be his dragon.

Erika would be the right hand woman of Tatsuya and second in command.

Leo would be the foul-mouthed, brawling best friend.

Mikihiko would be the adviser or assistant tactician.

Mizuki and Honoka would be Miyuki's handmaiden.

Shizuku would be the secretary/ treasure of the group.

101 Battalion, Miyuki's personal army....

[Ultraviolet X]

Ill break down the first paragraph, makes it easier to read, and easier to understand what points im answering.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Well Kyouko is an acquaintance not a friend i dont see Tatsuya spending time with her just to be with her, she knows his situation but doesnt understand it, if she did understand it she would rather stop Tatsuya from firing Material Burst and Killing alot of people if she was a real friend.

Chapter 5, 9sc Tatsuya interacts with the 101st members. Its clear he keeps in contact with them, it even goes ahead and mentions that there friends, abiet in a round about manner, other examples burried in the lns, cant be bothered to fish them out. To point it out, they cant maintain regular contact like he does erika and Mizuki and co, for one thing he is going to school and fulfuling his duties as a yotsuba guardian, and they are off on there missions. And another, he needs to be keeping a low profile, he cant meet with them regulary, he has to be "Shiba Tatsuya", the normal student. He can't go off meeting 101st members (the battalions a high profile unit to those in the know btw) regulary even if it doesnt conflict with his duties, how does he explain meeting people he isn't supposed to have met?

Now then, don't forget that Tatsuya is a soldier in the 101st battalion, its his duties to follow orders, and he was raised young to experience death. The fact that she doesnt stop him is irrelevant,, its his duty to follow orders.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Mizuki understand Tatsuya good side but not his bad side, she has yet to see the other side of the coin. He thinks Tatsuya isnt a killer for most.But truth is both Tatsuya and Erika are killers#! Those two wouldnt hesitate to kill if it involve someone they love.

Mizuki has seen him kill, Yokohoma arc book 2. I dont see how being able to kill people without hesitanting isnt part of his bad side. And he only kills when he thinks its nesscary, he doenst go out of his way to find people to kill. He just doenst hesitate when its time to act.

And she gave advice to erika about tats(not the only time btw, happened other times) about Erika's error in regards to tats after the event. And you argued that Fujibayashi was not a friend because she didnt stop Tats from using Material burst. Now you argue that him and erika are killers, perfectly suited for each other. Thats a contradiction. And dont argue using hs strategic magic wasnt nessesary. It was. If they invaded, numerous jap casulaties wouldve been happened, and the possibility that other people would be drawn into the event, e.g, Miyuki, is high.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Erika was willing to douche it out with her own step-brother just to protect Tatsuya!.

No, she was willing to fight with her own stepbrother because leo was injured. If im wrong, quote the example as i cant rember it

Originally Posted by pampz21

and Tatsuya would kill for Miyuki even manipulate her friends to gathering info, using Honoka as a fighter even tho she isnt.(well Honoka was willing, but I doubt she would kill for Tatsuya) Kazama too is still a big asshole, he commented that the weight of a SC mage is too much for a kid but still uses him wat ever they want.

Again, contradiction. Tatsuya was willing ot use somone for his own goals, so its wrong when somone does it to him for similar reasons? Kazuma is an officer, thats his job, and the circumstance he did it in was nessecary. He used tats in a situation where he had no choice, it stops dead the invasion and prevents jap casualties. It was the right call. They are both soldiers. And again, tats has been trained young to deal with death etc (reminesence ln, its mentioned in there). And again, what Kazuma was referring to was something else. If tats were to choose to use the sc magic, he would have made the decision and executed the kill. By following the orders of his co kazuma, he certainly killed, but he did it because of kazumas orders to kill. it splits up the responsibility and burden of the kill.

And dont forget, if they invaded Miyuki would have been drawn in, even without the order if he had third eye he would likely do it himself anyway. See how she was affected by those few kills she did? imaigne what she would have been like if she had to kill more.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Leaving this argument, due to it being pointless because Tatsuya's real friend are limited to only 4.

No they are not. It is just due to circumstances that he cant meet with them everyday, reaosn why i mentioned above. Very rarely in the real world you meet your mates everyday, and tats DOES live in the real world. school is just a playground to him.

While im at this, i will point out the relationship with kazuma. They are friends (its mentioned in the ln btw, 9SC arc book 1), but they are perfectly aware that each would discard the other if it was nessesary to there goals, Thats a perfect understanding. And i wonder if Erika is aware, that if she were to actively try to attack or kill Miyuki, he would kill her without hesitaion? ANd he would, he can only love Miyuki, which means ANYONE who treatens that is dead.

And before this gets off topic, all of the above is your arguemnts regardiing the fact that you think erika understands him better then anyone that is his friend. she is not. Its very clear. SHe has no idea.

That is why school is good for him. He is cynical, and used to using people, and being used, its his natural mindset. Everyone at school is innocent and have no ulterior motives, like he does. And dont say that will change. He still uses people for his goal. You made of the arguments supporting this yourself. He is using Erika to keep his sercret. He used Honoka against the parasites. Plenty of other examples in the ln. The only difference is that he is developing his "weaker" emotions, to the point that they enter his thought process. He feels "regret" for using people, but he still does it. He is and will still be a calculating person.

Originally Posted by pampz21

the only people that think Tatsuya is an extra are some part of the Yotsuba and Tatsuya himself.Miyiki and Maya still consider him as a Yotsuba and she still calls him her niece afterall; same reason as to why Maya wants to keep Tatsuya under wraps because he attract too much attention, talent wise.

BTW I just realise this They dont consider Tatsuya as an extra but rather a failed artificially created magician, a heartless monster#! .

well, heres the quote from the ln regarding his inner monlogue (english version). rereading it again, i realize its rather dubious, and english is my third language. so if an enghlish fluent person intrepret it in a way i can understannd, be much apprecciated. My take on it was he has actually been stripped of his number.

Beneath his gray mask, Tatsuya clearly beheld Mayumi making a funny face at him.

(...What a cheerful individual.)

Beyond that, Tatsuya had no other thoughts on the subject.

(Speaking of which, so Ichihara-senpai used to be "Ichihana", eh.)

The magic that Suzune used was the other reason why the Ichihana name had been stripped.

That magic relied a great deal on the Ichihana Family's natural innate qualities.

Magic that directly interfered with the human body was forbidden at the time, so besides medical reasons, usage of that sort of magic was heavily restricted.

Although he had no idea whether Suzune was aware of all the details, the truth of the matter was that she inherited the Ichihana bloodline.

However, Tatsuya also thought.

(If that's the case, then my magic wouldn't result in something so easy as being stripped of my number.)

Instead of chuckling wryly, he was silently contemplating this in the privacy of his mind. Tatsuya activated the transmission device on his helmet.

Now, lets assume im wrong and he hasnt been stripped of his number.Lets go over the details. He himself has doesnt think of himself as a a yotsuba (Thats been made clear in his inner monolgue plenty of times). He is a "guardian", not a active member. He is treated with open contempt and hostility by SERVANTS of the yotsuba (case in point, Aoki). Actuall members of the yotsuba do not like to been seen in his company (reminisence ln).

His own mother treated as a tool, not a family member, nothing more, even got angry and Miyuki when she refered to him by name or as brother. ANd dont argue it because he had no emotions, he still has his "weaker" emotions. besides, when Miya got angry at Miyuki and tats for the name slip, it seemed more because of the "shame" of associating with a castoff like him, so to speak. Seemed to be with the other yotsuba members as well (again, eg. in reminiscence ln). So, to sum up the point, even if he hasnt officially been stripped of his number, its clear hes not really a member of the yotsuba. They can't bear to be near or associated with him. Calling him an extra is still a nice description of his circumstances.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Well been gone alot (social wise =) ) but I guess it doesnt apply to me due to having a special feeling for the said friend. Love do start by knowing each other and being friend right?

To the first. A difference between hanging out alone with a friend who happens to be the opposite gender, and a date with the person, is the mindset. You can hang out with your friend and go to the movies. You can go on a date to the movies.

What would seperate the two would be the mindset, rather then the activity, people and couples have different interests regarding what they like, and it varies including what activity they will enjoy and not. If both people go into said activities thinking its a date with mutual consensus, its a date, If one or both of them doesnt think this way, its not. Love or interest blossoms by getting to know another person. And dont try to pull this example to argue your Erika case. Tats CAN'T feel love, it wont go past friends.

Originally Posted by pampz21

while both of them broke their promise. Erika ditch Tatsuya, but Tatsuya still looked for her, reminded by her solemn face he gave Tatsuya; when he said doesnt have a time for it.
You wouldnt show that kind of concern to a girl you just meet.

You said it yourself, he thinks of her as a friend. He'd do the same if he arranged to look at the clubs with leo or Mizuki. This doenst prove anything other then he thinks of her as a "friend". It wont go past that. He is not capable of that.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Dream on baby; Im still fighting#!
A captain will sink with his ship no matter what happend#!

I will see through it

I will sink your ship, logic prevails in the end, and your running out of arguments, soon it will get to the point i just need to quote my own posts to answer you. Tatsuya is incapable of love. All Erika will be is a friend, nothing more.

P.S. My last post on Mayumi, some post back, you havent touched that, is it because you have no counter arguments?

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

Miyuki would be the idealistic Princess candidate to the throne with many suitors.

Tatsuya would be the disowned, half-brother of hers, with God-like fighting and political skill and unhealthy devotion to Miyuki. Silver Trident would be his dragon.

Erika would be the right hand woman of Tatsuya and second in command.

Leo would be the foul-mouthed, brawling best friend.

Mikihiko would be the adviser or assistant tactician.

Mizuki and Honoka would be Miyuki's handmaiden.

Shizuku would be the secretary/ treasure of the group.

101 Battalion, Miyuki's personal army....

Now we're talking^^ (I wanted us to compare the characters and to think of who would be who in each other's setting, but this is fun too^^)

Good...But I'd make Trident his weapon of choice instead of a dragon.

Miyuki would be the heir to this secretive and very dangerous noble house that's trying to take over the whole realm. Trademark of said house is their ruthlessness and questionable grasp on morals. Miyuki shares an incredibly close bond with her brother Tatsuya, the house strongarm--sent to deal and exterminate any threats to the house his dear sister might rule over one day. However; he isn't actually part of the house as they disinherited him for not being the "worthy" successor. Tatsuya would be a grey entity within the story--sliding between hero and villain.

Erika would be the bastard daughter of a hero house. Leo would be her half-man; half-beast friend, and after crossing paths with the enigmatic Tatsuya develops feelings for him.

Mizuki and Mikihiko are the clericXmage team.

Shizuku and Honoka are Miyuki's companions.

Mayumi the trickster elven princess. And Katsuto would be the heir to a well-known noble house who often serve as elite guards.

[Ultraviolet X]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

Never estimate the power of desperation..... The Yotsuba needs Tatsuya....Sure, their pride would deny it but the fact remains that if they make Tatsuya an enemy, they will have a nuclear warhead aim at them.

Maya won't allow her clan to be wiped out due to pride.

Miyuki won't let go of Tatsuya.

For now, he is a Shiba.

But when necessity comes knocking, circumstances would make Shiba Tatsuya to Yotsuba Tatsuya.

Also, they would give Tatsuya the name Yotsuba sooner or later, either because Miyuki wills it or because they need additional chains to bind Tatsuya to the Yotsuba.....

I doubt that. Maya wouldn't. See the way other members of the yotsuba and even the servants interact with him. I seriously doubt Tatsuya ever becomes a "yotsuba" form Maya making him one. And Miyuki declaring him a Yotsuba will be meet with resistance within the clan, Tats will likely counsel against it simply to keep the peace, since any infighting within the clan is bad for Miyuki, and her declaing him a yotsuba will aim that all at her.

[bietchie11]

Nominate the most vile person in mahouka.
Will it be Tatsuya or someone else?

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Nominate the most vile person in mahouka.
Will it be Tatsuya or someone else?

Vote goes to those Dahan bastards.

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

Chapter 5, 9sc Tatsuya interacts with the 101st members. Its clear he keeps in contact with them, it even goes ahead and mentions that there friends, abiet in a round about manner, other examples burried in the lns, cant be bothered to fish them out. To point it out, they cant maintain regular contact like he does erika and Mizuki and co, for one thing he is going to school and fulfuling his duties as a yotsuba guardian, and they are off on there missions. And another, he needs to be keeping a low profile, he cant meet with them regulary, he has to be "Shiba Tatsuya", the normal student. He can't go off meeting 101st members (the battalions a high profile unit to those in the know btw) regulary even if it doesnt conflict with his duties, how does he explain meeting people he isn't supposed to have met?

Now then, don't forget that Tatsuya is a soldier in the 101st battalion, its his duties to follow orders, and he was raised young to experience death. The fact that she doesnt stop him is irrelevant,, its his duty to follow orders.

Mizuki has seen him kill, Yokohoma arc book 2. I dont see how being able to kill people without hesitanting isnt part of his bad side. And he only kills when he thinks its nesscary, he doenst go out of his way to find people to kill. He just doenst hesitate when its time to act.

And she gave advice to erika about tats(not the only time btw, happened other times) about Erika's error in regards to tats after the event. And you argued that Fujibayashi was not a friend because she didnt stop Tats from using Material burst. Now you argue that him and erika are killers, perfectly suited for each other. Thats a contradiction. And dont argue using hs strategic magic wasnt nessesary. It was. If they invaded, numerous jap casulaties wouldve been happened, and the possibility that other people would be drawn into the event, e.g, Miyuki, is high.

No, she was willing to fight with her own stepbrother because leo was injured. If im wrong, quote the example as i cant rember it

Again, contradiction. Tatsuya was willing ot use somone for his own goals, so its wrong when somone does it to him for similar reasons? Kazuma is an officer, thats his job, and the circumstance he did it in was nessecary. He used tats in a situation where he had no choice, it stops dead the invasion and prevents jap casualties. It was the right call. They are both soldiers. And again, tats has been trained young to deal with death etc (reminesence ln, its mentioned in there).

Hell, if they invaded Miyuki might have been drawn in, even without the order if he had third eye he would likly do it himself anyway.

No they are not. It is just due to circumstances that he cant meet with them everyday, reaosn why i mentioned above. Very rarely in the real world you meet your mates everyday, and tats DOES live in the real world. school is just a playground to him.

While im at this, i will point out the relationship with kazuma. They are friends (its mentioned in the ln btw, 9SC arc book 1), but they are perfectly aware that each would discard the other if it was nessesary to there goals, Thats a perfect understanding. And i wonder if Erika is aware, that if she were to actively try to attack or kill Miyuki, he would kill her without hesitaion? ANd he would, he can only love Miyuki, which means ANYONE who treatens that is dead.

And before this gets off topic, all of the above is your arguemnts regardiing the fact that you think erika understands him better then anyone that is his friend. she is not. Its very clear. SHe has no idea.

That is why school is good for him. He is cynical, and used to using people, and being used, its his natural mindset. Everyone at school is innocent and have no ulterior motives, like he does. And dont say that will change. He still uses people for his goal. You made of the arguments supporting this yourself. He is using Erika to keep his sercret. He used Honoka against the parasites. Plenty of other examples in the ln. The only difference is that he is developing his "weaker" emotions, to the point that they enter his thought process. He feels "regret" for using people, but he still does it. He is and will still be a calculating person.



well, heres the quote from the ln regarding his inner monlogue (english version). rereading it again, i realize its rather dubious, and english is my third language. so if an enghlish fluent person intrepret it in a way i can understannd, be much apprecciated. My take on it was he has actually been stripped of his number.

Now, lets assume im wrong and he hasnt been stripped of his number.Lets go over the details. He himself has doesnt think of himself as a a yotsuba (Thats been made clear in his inner monolgue plenty of times). He is a "guardian", not a active member. He is treated with open contempt and hostility by SERVANTS of the yotsuba (case in point, Aoki). Actuall members of the yotsuba do not like to been seen in his company (reminisence ln).

His own mother treated as a tool, not a family member, nothing more, even got angry and Miyuki when she refered to him by name or as brother. ANd dont argue it because he had no emotions, he still has his "weaker" emotions. besides, when Miya got angry at Miyuki and tats for the name slip, it seemed more because of the "shame" of associating with a castoff like him, so to speak. Seemed to be with the other yotsuba members. So, to sum up the point, even if he hasnt officially been stripped of his number, its clear hes not really a member of the yotsuba. Calling him an extra is still a nice description of his circumstances.


To the first. A difference between hanging out alone with a friend who happens to be the opposite gender, and a date with the person, is the mindset. You can hang out with your friend and go to the movies. You can go on a date to the movies.

What would seperate the two would be the mindset, rather then the activity, people and couples have different interests regarding what they like, and it varies including what activity they will enjoy and not. If both people go into said activities thinking its a date with mutual consensus, its a date, If one or both of them doesnt think this way, its not. Love or interest blossums by getting to know another person. And dont try to pull this example to argue your Erika case. Tats CAN'T feel love, it wont go past friends.


You said it yourself, he thinks of her as a friend. He'd do the same if he arranged to look at the clubs with leo or Mizuki. This doenst prove anything other then he thinks of her as a "friend". It wont go past that. He is not capable of that.

I will sink your ship, logic prevails in the end, and your running out of arguments, soon it will get to the point i just need to quote my own posts to answer you. Tatsuya is incapable of love. All Erika will be is a friend, nothing more.

P.S. My last post on Mayumi, some post back, you havent touched that, is it because you have no counter arguments?

Oh...i worded it wrong again they maybe friends but thats "friends with benefits" Miyuki already said this people who approach Tatsuya is because of his talents not his personality.
(Woot life isnt so easy)

The fact that they didnt stop him is already; they already considered him as a tool of mass destruction. They didnt gave him a choice; Yotsuba didnt order for that fire the government did. The 101 battlion shouldnt use a child much more hes an unregistered sc mage.

That was due to war setting; its kill or killed mindset; unlike Tatsuya he can assasinate someone with just an order.

Contradiction it is but both of them has live that kind of life style; you can say both of them have already shared the same principle only difference is, Erika wasnt raise as a soldier but a swordsman. Well difference is that a soldier is raise to follow orders while swordsman follow their instinct. Much more a ronin like Erika can do what she thinks is right(unless she swore his life/alligiance to someone).

They are civillian and those people are police, if they see people who are injured isnt it common that they offer help rather than taunting your own sister; bside Leo doesnt know Tatsuyas identity; so even if question Leo wouldnt be able to answer unlike Erkka who knows the situation full well. Their mission was to survailance Tatsuya.

Again apply the same concept as friends with benefits.Miyuki had already left the battlefield so Tatsuya doesnt have any duty to help them unless ordered. They did deploy Itsuwa after the battle so why didnt they use here overthere?

Lol you sound like Tatsuya's parent that wants him to join flt at a young age. So my counter argue is read what Tatsuya and Miyuki said to their step mother.

Do you think something like that would happen? Like i said Erika isnt a soldier but a swordsman or a samurai and a ronin. So there be chance of that happening. If it ever happens; it just gonna be a fight to the death with Tatsuya. She ones pointed her blade to Tatsuya bcuz she has her own will and justice to see through.

She understand most part of it but not everything its the same as Miyuki but 101 is just survailing him, they only see him in a monitor so you think those guys know more than people who are beside them.

In regard to using Erika that was Erika's fault of knowing his secret;she wanted to protect his identity, now she was force to protect it; by being force is that if it gets leak Tatsuya and Miyuki will not be the only one being in trouble but the Chiba family to eill be involvr. she isnt being used as Tatsuya is using Honoka's love for him to do his binding. Calculating he maybe but there are still coincidence that you cant calculate;

No he hasnt been stripped of his number; why would he think of being stripped off his number if he was already stripped of it?

Some of the Yotsuba only treat him like that because he is an artificially created magician and a failure, they call hum heartless because in exchange of using normal magic, he gave his emotion away, so them calling him heartless isnt off the mark.

About the mindset I agree; but you cant deny my pretense too due to it Tatsuya wanted to go out with her too. Thats why she looked for her, even remember her face, when he told her he was busy. Dont forget they did flirt with each other.

Yes he would likely go if his other friends invited him; but Tatsuya wouldnt be forceful to look for him/her; and the one who invited him was Erika, Tatsuya had already know Erika very well at that time. Do you think Mizuki would force Tatsuya to go with her if she knows his busy; the same with Leo. Only thing i can interpret there is Erika's charm or rather her sulky face in getting a date with Tatsuya!

Haha mada mada daze#!
My ship will sail till the day it reaches its final destination

For your PS i never bother having an argue with it cuz never did Tatsuya was willing to go with her tease#$ unlike with Erika, both them likes to flirt with each other...you cant dance if your partner is unwilling!

[Ultraviolet X]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Nominate the most vile person in mahouka.
Will it be Tatsuya or someone else?

Candidates:
1) Dahan group (sage included)
2) Maya
3) Koichi
4) Zhou
5) Tatsuya

Mine is on the Dahan

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

Candidates:
1) Dahan group (sage included)
2) Maya
3) Koichi
4) Zhou
5) Tatsuya

Mine is on the Dahan

Again i disagree; it should be Tatsuya's parents.

[kidswable]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

Candidates:
1) Dahan group (sage included)
2) Maya
3) Koichi
4) Zhou
5) Tatsuya

Mine is on the Dahan

The most vile character is Tatsuya.
Hand down

Originally Posted by pampz21

Again i disagree; it should be Tatsuya's parents.

Yup, they should release him from duty and let him marry mayumi to join saegusa or fujibayashi for kudou

Hands down, your ship dont have political value

[Ultraviolet X]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Oh...i worded it wrong again they maybe friends but thats "friends with benefits" Miyuki already said this people who approach Tatsuya is because of his talents not his personality.
(Woot life isnt so easy)

What benefits? he cant even lust after someone. And he has people closer to him then Erika, so she doesnt cover anything.

Originally Posted by pampz21

The fact that they didnt stop him is already; they already considered him as a tool of mass destruction. They didnt gave him a choice; Yotsuba didnt order for that fire the government did. The 101 battlion shouldnt use a child much more hes an unregistered sc mage.

They ordered him, thus splitting the responsibility of the kills between the co, and the person who carried it out. That is what Kazuma means by "splitting the responsibility." And again, he would have done it anyway simply to avoid Miyuki from being to drawn in to the invasion. And again, they KNOW his background, including the fact he was raised for that and is not squeamish in that regard. I've covered this already in one of my posts, your going around in circles.

Originally Posted by pampz21

That was due to war setting; its kill or killed mindset; unlike Tatsuya he can assassinate someone with just an order.

Your point? Tats doesn't get involved with the 101st battalion unless its in situations like this. You see him day in and out going to school. He rarely contacts them, unless its for details he needs on his end or to "adjust" something (mobile suit, third eye). And again, he would have got involved anyway. It just then Kazuma ordered him to. Thus splitting up the responsibilities.

Or are you saying that Tats has no problems killing people here? cause if so, well that contradicts another of your posts.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Contradiction it is but both of them has live that kind of life style; you can say both of them have already shared the same principle only difference is, Erika wasnt raise as a soldier but a swordsman. Well difference is that a soldier is raise to follow orders while swordsman follow their instinct. Much more a ronin like Erika can do what she thinks is right(unless she swore his life/alligiance to someone).

By admitting my point, it also comes with the fact that your admitting that there are other people closer to understanding then Tatsuya then Erika ever will amongst his friends. Which was the point i was making.

Originally Posted by pampz21

They are civillian and those people are police, if they see people who are injured isnt it common that they offer help rather than taunting your own sister; bside Leo doesnt know Tatsuyas identity; so even if question Leo wouldnt be able to answer unlike Erkka who knows the situation full well. Their mission was to survailance Tatsuya.

Irrelevant to the point. Your mixing up the two brothers here and the yokohama and Lina arc. First, its quite clear that she has confidence in both her brothers abilities. second, yokohama arc the police help protect civilians, military fight them back, thus were the roles divided in yokohama arc. Third, her other brother (the one in the military) was assigned to observe and if necessary to protect tats in the Lina arc. fourth , still no example of when she was willing to fight either brothers because of Tats (deceive one, yes, but not fight). Last, this point is irrelevant.The argument is that Erika is not the closest person to understanding him outside of Miyuki, nor is she closer to him then any other of his friends, how does this relate?

Originally Posted by pampz21

Again apply the same concept as friends with benefits.Miyuki had already left the battlefield so Tatsuya doesnt have any duty to help them unless ordered. They did deploy Itsuwa after the battle so why didnt they use here overthere?

Irrelevant to the point. First, my guess. Since it doesnt actually say anything. The ships need to be close for Itsuwa to use her magic, and she is a cripple, not to mention the time to contact her, get her in position. Tatsuya could deploy right away, and has no restrictions on distance. He was the faster and more reliably solution.

And now, why its irrelevant. How does this tie into anything? By that point he was well and truly involved.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Lol you sound like Tatsuya's parent that wants him to join flt at a young age. So my counter argue is read what Tatsuya and Miyuki said to their step mother.

I'm saying school is good for him because hes associating with people who don't have the same manipulative and cynical personality as him and are unlike him and that he can use first high database to research into his goal.. She is saying its a waste of his talents and should quit. How are they the same?

Originally Posted by pampz21

Do you think something like that would happen? Like i said Erika isnt a soldier but a swordsman or a samurai and a ronin. So there be chance of that happening. If it ever happens; it just gonna be a fight to the death with Tatsuya. She ones pointed her blade to Tatsuya bcuz she has her own will and justice to see through.

Sooo, your saying Erika is prepared to kill a friend if need be no hesitations if they clash with her objective? The way Kazuma and Tatsuya are? no, she isn't. That is a soldiers mindset, a hardened soldier at that. Not a high school students, no matter if its swordsman or not. She is willing to "fight" or "clash", not kill.

Originally Posted by pampz21

She understand most part of it but not everything its the same as Miyuki but 101 is just survailing him, they only see him in a monitor so you think those guys no more than people who are beside them.

They know all his secrets, the core members do in fact keep contact despite the fact that they shouldn't really, outside of missions or 101st related tasks. Being soldiers, there training and mindsets would be similar (case in point, kazuma) since there soldiers. And Erika and co have only known him for about a year, and Tats would have no doubt have interacted with members of the 101st for longer. So yes, I do.

And lets go over a tab of the lovely secrets he has been keeping, and how much Erika has worked out.

Taurus silver?No
Sc Magician? No
Yotsuba? Partly, she thinks hes part of the clan
Experiment subject, unable to feel "stronger" emotions? No
His own bs magic abilities? getting close, but no
Detached from his "weaker" emotions? yes
Guardian? No
Training he has endured since young? no, seen the scars, wont be able to understand the circumstances. (That it was all for training)
Understanding his cynical personality? No
His abnormal growing up circumstances? No
Fixated on Miyuki? Yes, but needed Mizuki to point that out

quite a list of no's there.

Originally Posted by pampz21

In regard to using Erika that was Erika's fault of knowing his secret;she wanted to protect his identity, now she was force to protect it; by being force is that if it gets leak Tatsuya and Miyuki will not be the only one being in trouble but the Chiba family to eill be involvr. she isnt being used as Tatsuya is using Honoka's love for him to do his binding. Calculating he maybe but there are still coincidence that you cant calculate;

He didn't calculate to make Honoka fall for him, but she did nonetheless. So he uses it. He expected that Erika would work it out, given how perceptive she is, that he is a yotsuba at least, just not at that moment, but she did. So he used it. Same circumstances. There are no differences. He wasn't trying to make Honoka fall for him, he didn't feed information or intend for Erika to work it out but they both did nonetheless. So he uses it to his advantage. Completely the same.

Originally Posted by pampz21

No he hasnt been stripped of his number; why would he think of being stripped off his number if he was already stripped of it?

Some of the Yotsuba only treat him like that because he is an artificially created magician and a failure, they call hum heartless because in exchange of using normal magic, he gave his emotion away, so them calling him heartless isnt off the mark.

Very nice, you made a point for me. My point was that calling him an extra would still be accurate, since the clan members generally don't interact with him at all if they can help it, even going so far as to be openly antagonistic towards him. And you just admitted they do in the above.

Originally Posted by pampz21

About the mindset I agree; but you cant deny my pretense too due to it Tatsuya wanted to go out with her too. Thats why she looked for her, even remember her face, when he told her he was busy. Dont forget they did flirt with each other.

When did they flirt? quote the example. And don't refer to Erika losing her shirt or whatever, Tatsuya was going through the options he could say, and that happened due to circumstance, besides he wasn't interested. You said "flirt with each other", and you've admitted before he cant see her that way in one of your statements somewhere above, thats why your arguing the "friends" case. So again, you contradicted yourself.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Yes he would likely go if his other friends invited him; but Tatsuya would be forceful to look for him/her; and the one who invited him was Erika, Tatsuya had already know Erika very well at that time.

Read the translations. He simply brought out the LPS he had on his mobile terminal, looked up Erika's mobile, and followed the red dot on the school map. No real effort on his part. Not to mention she was close. He could have done that much for anyone, doesn't sound like much effort.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Do you think Mizuki would force Tatsuya to go with her if she knows his busy; the same with Leo. Only thing i can interpret there is Erika's charm or rather her sulky face.

Irrelevant. I am arguing that Tatsuya never sees her as more then a friend, and there are friends that understand her more then Erika. I never mentioned anything about Erika's feeling. So how is Erika's feelings relevant to this argument? It's not, especially since i never denied in the first place that Erika is interested in Tats.

Originally Posted by pampz21

For your PS i never bother having an argue with it cuz never did Tatsuya was willing to go with her tease#$ unlike with Erika, both them likes to flirt with eacg other...you cant dance if your partner is unwilling!

The point there was that both get along well enough to read each other, and it would be a political marriage. Tats lack of love is irrelevant, he does it for other reasons, which were mentioned in that post...... Is it possible you don't have an argument for the match?


P.S I give it two more posts on my behalf on the shipping war, then i can start quoting my own posts to argue my case.

[kidswable]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

What benefits? he cant even lust after someone. And he has people closer to him then Erika, so she doesnt cover anything.



They ordered him, thus splitting the responsibility of the kills between the co, and the person who carried it out. That is what Kazuma means by "splitting the responsibility." And again, he would have done it anyway simply to avoid Miyuki from being to drawn in to the invasion. And again, they KNOW his background, including the fact he was raised for that and is not squeamish in that regard. I've covered this already in one of my posts, your going around in circles.



Your point? Tats doesn't get involved with the 101st battalion unless its in situations like this. You see him day in and out going to school. He rarely contacts them, unless its for details he needs on his end or to "adjust" something (mobile suit, third eye). And again, he would have got involved anyway. It just then Kazuma ordered him to. Thus splitting up the responsibilities.

Or are you saying that Tats has no problems killing people here? cause if so, well that contradicts another of your posts.



By admitting my point, it also comes with the fact that your admitting that there are other people closer to understanding then Tatsuya then Erika ever will amongst his friends. Which was the point i was making.



Irrelevant to the point. Your mixing up the two brothers here and the yokohama and Lina arc. First, its quite clear that she has confidence in both her brothers abilities. second, yokohama arc the police help protect civilians, military fight them back, thus were the roles divided in yokohama arc. Third, her other brother (also in the military) was assigned to observe and if necessary to protect tats in the Lina arc. fourth , still no example of when she was willing to fight either brothers because of Tats (deceive one, yes, but not fight). Last, this point is irrelevant.The argument is that Erika is not the closest person to understanding him outside of Miyuki, nor is she closer to him then any other of his friends, how does this relate?



Irrelevant to the point. First, my guess. Since it doesnt actually say anything. The ships need to be close for Itsuwa to use her magic, and she is a cripple, not to mention the time to contact her, get her in position. Tatsuya could deploy right away, and has no restrictions on distance. He was the faster and more reliably solution.

And now, why its irrelevant. How does this tie into anything? By that point he was well and truly involved.



I'm saying school is good for him because hes associating with people who don't have the same manipulative and cynical personality as him and are unlike him and that he can use first high database to research into his goal.. She is saying its a waste of his talents and should quit. How are they the same?



Sooo, your saying Erika is prepared to kill a friend if need be no hesitations if they clash with her objective? The way Kazuma and Tatsuya are? no, she isn't. That is a soldiers mindset, a hardened soldier at that. Not a high school students, no matter if its swordsman or not. She is willing to "fight" or "clash", not kill.



They know all his secrets, they do keep in fact keep contact despite the fact that they shouldn't really. Being soldiers, there training and mindsets would be similar (case in point, kazuma) since there soldiers. And Erika and co have only known him for about a year, and Tats would have no doubt have interacted with members of the 101st for longer. So yes, I do.

And lets go over a tab of the lovely secrets he has been keeping, and how much Erika has worked out.

Taurus silver?No
Sc Magician? No
Yotsuba? Partly, she thinks hes part of the clan
Experiment subject, unable to feel "stronger" emotions? No
His own bs magic abilities? getting close, but no
Detached from his "weaker" emotions? yes
Guardian? No
Training he has endured since young? no, seen the scars, wont be able to understand the circumstances. (That it was all for training)
Understanding his cynical personality? No
His abnormal growing up circumstances? No
Fixated on Miyuki? Yes, but needed Mizuki to point that out

quite a list of no's there.



He didn't calculate to make Honoka fall for him, but she did nonetheless. So he uses it. He expected that Erika would work it out, given how perceptive she is, that he is a yotsuba at least, just not at that moment, but she did. So he used it. Same circumstances. There are no differences. He wasnt trying to make Honoka fall for him, he didnt feed or intend for Erika to work it out butt she worked it out nontheless. Completely the same.




Very nice, you made a point for me. My point was that calling him an extra would still be accurate, since the clan don't interact with him at all, even going so far as to be openly antagonistic towards him. And you just admitted they do in the above.



When did they flirt? quote the example. And don't refer to Erika losing her shirt or whatever, Tatsuya was going through the options he could say, and that happened due to circumstance, besides he wasn't interested. You said "flirt with each other", and you've admitted before he cant see her that way in one of your statements somewhere above, thats why your arguing the "friends" case. So again, you contradicted yourself.




Read the translations. He simply brought out the LPS he had on his mobile terminal, looked up Erika's mobile, and followed the red dot on the school map. No real effort on his part. Not to mention she was close. He could have done that much for anyone, doesn't sound like much effort.



Irrelevant. I am arguing that Tatsuya never sees her as more then a friend, and there are friends that understand her more then Erika. I never mentioned anything about Erika's feeling. So how is Erika's feelings relevant to this argument? It's not, especially since i never denied in the first place that Erika is interested in Tats.




The point there was that both get along well enough to read each other, and it would be a political marriage. Tats lack of love is irrelevant, he does it for other reasons, which were mentioned in that post...... Is it possible you don't have an argument for the match?


P.S I give it two more posts on my behalf on the shipping war, then i can start quoting my own posts to argue my case.

more funny fact:
even the almost sinking ship have a powerfull power behind her. with honoka tatsuya will have kitayama family support.
At least they admit it that honoka was like their own daughter, just like shizuku

[Ultraviolet X]

Originally Posted by kidswable

more funny fact:
even the almost sinking ship have a powerfull power behind her. with honoka tatsuya will have kitayama family support.
At least they admit it that honoka was like their own daughter, just like shizuku

Lol to that.

In the next post i make against pampz, I may end up quoting some of my own posts to argue my point. The end is near for Erika's ship.

MayumiXTatsuya

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

Lol to that.

In the next post i make against pampz, I may end up quoting some of my own posts to argue my point. The end is near for Erika's ship.

MayumiXTatsuya

Unlikely, pampz would fight for Tatsuya and Erika Shipping to his dying breath just like I would fight for Tatsuya and Miyuki Shipping.

Dude, don't waste your time especially if your fighting for a shipping that has only advantages of political marriage as ammunition.

For one thing, Tatsuya would not allow himself to be manipulated for political means.

Second, Miyuki would never let him go.

Third, as I said before, the woman who would take Tatsuya from Miyuki would either die trying or settle with sharing Tats with Miyuki....As far I could tell, only Honoka and Erika would settle with that arrangement...

[Ultraviolet X]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

Unlikely, pampz would fight for Tatsuya and Erika Shipping to his dying breath just like I would fight for Tatsuya and Miyuki Shipping.

Dude, don't waste your time especially if your fighting for a shipping that has only advantages of political marriage as ammunition.

For one thing, Tatsuya would not allow himself to be manipulated for political means.

Second, Miyuki would never let him go.

Third, as I said before, the woman who would take Tatsuya from Miyuki would either die trying or settle with sharing Tats with Miyuki....As far I could tell, only Honoka and Erika would settle with that arrangement...

Logic wins in the end. And yes he would, if its for Miyuki's sake, feel free to look at the post stating the reasons and point out the flaws, its all pretty much in there. I even pointed out why the two would allow it, even why the two clans would allow it.

Well, heres one of them, somewhere i went into detail about Miyuki's reason for allowing it, cant be bothered finding that one though.

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

This is why Mayumi is good for him, they get along well, have learnt how to handle each other two some extent, and its actually plausable that they could get together, as in Mayumi's case any marraige she ever gets into will be a political one, and Tatsuya is incapable of love so his only reason foor marrage is political. It's a nice way to bring a measure of peace between the clans, a political marrage solely for that purpose, and Tatsuya could very well agree because it helps bring an ally to Miyuki, since she is or will be the next head of the yotsuba. And it reduces the risk to Miyuki, since the two clans are in a kind of cold war and Miyuki is a yotsuba, she could be targeted if it continues.

And both clans gain something in each case, besides the peace. Most Yotsuba members are unaware of what Tatsuya is capable of, so they wouldn't care that he goes to the Saugesa. Maya gains somone inside another 10mc who is completly loyal to the yotsuba head, Miyuki, and allows her to relax a little about the threat of Tatsuya rebelling against the yotsuba, because he will now be a Saguesa, not there problem. And even if he were to oppose the yotsuba, being in the Saguesa will resrict him even more, since it will be harder for him to contact Miyuki to confirm her safety etc, and rember shes his number one priority. And dont say something stupid about the Saeguesa helping him. They wont support genocide of another 10mc.

In Koichi's case, he gains a Strategic class magician, something which can boost the fame of the Seaguesa clan (one of the 10 clans is there soley because they have a strategic class magician). This person has ties to the 101st battalion, which he willl try to exploit, not to mention his knowledge and fame "as "Taurus Silver". But most of all, it will do his ego wonders, he has been trying to prove himself to Maya, and what better way to show this then taking a strategic class magician for his clan, from the yotsuba, that Maya couldnt really control? It also weakens the yotsuba clan, them losing the Strategic class magician, which answers his other reason why he was antongonistic against the Yotsuba. He was worried they were getting to powerfull, the match of marrying Tatsuya into the Saguesa weakens them. Besides, his daughter does like Tatsuya so he could fullfill his parental roll with the match.

MayumiXTatsuya

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

Logic wins in the end. And yes he would, if its for Miyuki's sake, feel free to look at the post stating the reasons and point out the flaws, its all pretty much in there. I even pointed out why the two would allow it, even why the two clans would allow it.

Dude, ain't going to fight you with logic....I have no logic, but so is love.

Tatsuya would protect Miyuki at all cause, even marrying another woman for her sake...Even I would concede to that logic.....

But love is illogical...

Miyuki might see the point of Tatsuya marrying another woman for her sake, but she won't allow it and Tatsuya would obey her if she orders him to drop the engagement.

Of course, Tatsuya would point out the benefits, but he will not go against Miyuki. Tatsuya would ripped his own throat out before disobeying her.

Also, women are very selfish when it comes to the person they love. Miyuki will not let go of Tatsuya if the person who would take him would separate him from her. Miyuki might share, Miyuki might settle to be Tatsuya's mistress knowing that being his wife would be a social suicide for both of them, but she won't let go if Tatsuya would be remove from her life permanently.

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

This is why Mayumi is good for him, they get along well, have learnt how to handle each other two some extent, and its actually plausable that they could get together, as in Mayumi's case any marraige she ever gets into will be a political one, and Tatsuya is incapable of love so his only reason foor marrage is political. It's a nice way to bring a measure of peace between the clans, a political marrage solely for that purpose, and Tatsuya could very well agree because it helps bring an ally to Miyuki, since she is or will be the next head of the yotsuba. And it reduces the risk to Miyuki, since the two clans are in a kind of cold war and Miyuki is a yotsuba, she could be targeted if it continues.

And both clans gain something in each case, besides the peace. Most Yotsuba members are unaware of what Tatsuya is capable of, so they wouldn't care that he goes to the Saugesa. Maya gains somone inside another 10mc who is completly loyal to the yotsuba head, Miyuki, and allows her to relax a little about the threat of Tatsuya rebelling against the yotsuba, because he will now be a Saguesa, not there problem. And even if he were to oppose the yotsuba, being in the Saguesa will resrict him even more, since it will be harder for him to contact Miyuki to confirm her safety etc, and rember shes his number one priority. And dont say something stupid about the Saeguesa helping him. They wont support genocide of another 10mc.

In Koichi's case, he gains a Strategic class magician, something which can boost the fame of the Seaguesa clan (one of the 10 clans is there soley because they have a strategic class magician). This person has ties to the 101st battalion, which he willl try to exploit, not to mention his knowledge and fame "as "Taurus Silver". But most of all, it will do his ego wonders, he has been trying to prove himself to Maya, and what better way to show this then taking a strategic class magician for his clan, from the yotsuba, that Maya couldnt really control? It also weakens the yotsuba clan, them losing the Strategic class magician, which answers his other reason why he was antongonistic against the Yotsuba. He was worried they were getting to powerfull, the match of marrying Tatsuya into the Saguesa weakens them. Besides, his daughter does like Tatsuya so he could fullfill his parental roll with the match.

MayumiXTatsuya

Do you honestly think that two very prideful people would let go of two very powerful cards (Tatsuya for the Yotsuba, Mayumi for Saegusa) without one upping the other.

Mayumi might want it, Tatsuya might see the benefit, but the Yotsuba and Saegusa would not arrange a marriage contract for the two unless the benefits that they would received is greater than the other.

Pride is one tough bitch!

The Yotsuba and Saegusa have pride in spades.